Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues


    Iraq turns its eye on Russian weapons

    Share

    iraqidabab

    Posts : 320
    Points : 335
    Join date : 2014-05-31

    Re: Iraq turns its eye on Russian weapons

    Post  iraqidabab on Wed Apr 20, 2016 4:09 am

    dual controls?
    avatar
    magnumcromagnon

    Posts : 4495
    Points : 4674
    Join date : 2013-12-05
    Location : Pindos ave., Pindosville, Pindosylvania, Pindostan

    Re: Iraq turns its eye on Russian weapons

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Wed Apr 20, 2016 4:21 am

    iraqidabab wrote:dual controls?

    Training helicopters, which allow veteran pilots to train green pilots.
    avatar
    George1

    Posts : 10246
    Points : 10734
    Join date : 2011-12-22
    Location : Greece

    Re: Iraq turns its eye on Russian weapons

    Post  George1 on Sun May 22, 2016 2:07 am

    New Mi-28NE for Iraq





    Known Rostov spotter (with the nickname "Mi-26") filmed started flight tests at the airport JSC "Rostvertol", Krestovka in Rostov-on-Don one combat helicopter Mi-28NE manufactured for Iraq (temporary tail number "11"). According to unofficial reports, that is the first of the final four Mi-28NE on Iraqi contracts 2012-2013, a total of 15 machines. These four Mi-28NE must be made in the version with dual controls (ie Mi-28UB) and will bear dark gray color - in contrast to previous machines supplied to Iraq in camouflage color.

    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/1915011.html


    _________________
    "There's no smoke without fire.", Georgy Zhukov


    sheytanelkebir

    Posts : 498
    Points : 515
    Join date : 2013-09-16

    Re: Iraq turns its eye on Russian weapons

    Post  sheytanelkebir on Tue Jun 07, 2016 2:09 pm

    http://sputniknews.com/military/20160607/1040907452/russia-iraq-daesh.html

    Russia is willing to sell iraq "anything they ask for". cooperation in the joint intelligence centre is very satisfactory and russia would consider any request from iraq for direct support.
    avatar
    mack8

    Posts : 953
    Points : 1013
    Join date : 2013-08-02

    Re: Iraq turns its eye on Russian weapons

    Post  mack8 on Thu Jun 16, 2016 12:14 pm

    In this very nice photoreport you can see iraqi Mi-28NEs (or are they UBs?) and Mi-35Ms  at Rostvertol:
    http://gelio.livejournal.com/216241.html
    avatar
    George1

    Posts : 10246
    Points : 10734
    Join date : 2011-12-22
    Location : Greece

    Re: Iraq turns its eye on Russian weapons

    Post  George1 on Wed Jun 29, 2016 12:08 am

    Iraq Receives New Batch of Mi-28NE Military Helicopters From Russia

    http://sputniknews.com/middleeast/20160629/1042113806/iraq-receives-russian-mi28-helis.html


    _________________
    "There's no smoke without fire.", Georgy Zhukov

    avatar
    George1

    Posts : 10246
    Points : 10734
    Join date : 2011-12-22
    Location : Greece

    Re: Iraq turns its eye on Russian weapons

    Post  George1 on Wed Jul 13, 2016 4:10 am

    Τhe last two Mi-28NE delivered to Iraq





    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2010649.html


    _________________
    "There's no smoke without fire.", Georgy Zhukov


    sheytanelkebir

    Posts : 498
    Points : 515
    Join date : 2013-09-16

    Re: Iraq turns its eye on Russian weapons

    Post  sheytanelkebir on Thu Oct 27, 2016 1:36 pm

    This week's reports by the Iraqi finance ministry shed light on some of Iraq's current issues with armaments.

    many purchases from Russia have been suspended due to lack of cash by the Iraqi side (MSTA-S, BMP-3, T-90S, MiG-35, S-300).

    In the meantime the finance ministry report stated the following:

    USA gave Iraq $2.7Bn loan for weapons purchases to reactivate US offers which had lapsed due to previous Iraqi inability to pay.
    China has given Iraq $2.5Bn for weapons purchases. The Chinese weapons are supplied by NORINCO and Poly-Technologies.

    iraqidabab

    Posts : 320
    Points : 335
    Join date : 2014-05-31

    Re: Iraq turns its eye on Russian weapons

    Post  iraqidabab on Thu Oct 27, 2016 10:37 pm

    I'm afraid we might purchase the AH-64 with those loans, that would be a big mistake.

    sheytanelkebir

    Posts : 498
    Points : 515
    Join date : 2013-09-16

    Re: Iraq turns its eye on Russian weapons

    Post  sheytanelkebir on Fri Oct 28, 2016 9:04 am

    the US loans are for the following:

    -payment for second batch of F16s
    -Payment for the 20,000+ LGBs
    -Payment for 5000+ Hellfires
    -Payment for 2 new combat caravans with 4 rails.

    iraqidabab

    Posts : 320
    Points : 335
    Join date : 2014-05-31

    Re: Iraq turns its eye on Russian weapons

    Post  iraqidabab on Mon Jan 23, 2017 6:33 pm

    sheytanelkebir wrote:the US loans are for the following:

    -payment for second batch of F16s
    -Payment for the 20,000+ LGBs
    -Payment for 5000+ Hellfires
    -Payment for 2 new combat caravans with 4 rails.

    So now after deals have been made for HQ-9 long range AD and CH-5 UCAV. What do you expect the next heavy weapons purchase to be about for the air force.

    Any chance we'll see a purchase of SU-34? i've the feeling this will be of much more use than SU-30's/Mig-35's for the time being, there's a lot of ground work to be done in iraq and Syria.
    avatar
    d_taddei2

    Posts : 898
    Points : 1060
    Join date : 2013-05-11
    Location : Scotland UK

    reply

    Post  d_taddei2 on Tue Jan 24, 2017 9:50 am

    iraqidabab wrote:
    sheytanelkebir wrote:the US loans are for the following:

    -payment for second batch of F16s
    -Payment for the 20,000+ LGBs
    -Payment for 5000+ Hellfires
    -Payment for 2 new combat caravans with 4 rails.

    So now after deals have been made for HQ-9 long range AD and CH-5 UCAV. What do you expect the next heavy weapons purchase to be about for the air force.

    Any chance we'll see a purchase of SU-34? i've the feeling this will be of much more use than SU-30's/Mig-35's for the time being, there's a lot of ground work to be done in iraq and Syria.


    I think due to current conflict and budget constraints they would be better buying Su-25SM, Su-24M2, and maybe some Mig-29SMT/M2 (if needed) these aircraft are more than enough for Iraq's need, without buying more expensive aircraft.
    avatar
    GarryB

    Posts : 16315
    Points : 16946
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Iraq turns its eye on Russian weapons

    Post  GarryB on Wed Jan 25, 2017 9:17 am

    I would agree with that... an upgraded MiG-29 wont intimidate the neighbours but will kick ISIS ass, and Su-25s would be rather more use than supersonic fighters any day.

    Fencers have proved that with good intel on the ground situation they can still get the job done without costing a fortune.

    Perhaps even a few bomb trucks would be useful... half a dozen Tu-22M3s for the purposes of absolutely trashing a target with conventional ordinance when needed... but they would not be cheap.

    I would probably go for the Su-30 rather than the Su-34 as while it is cheaper and less capable as a strike aircraft the Su-30 is good enough for most purposes and has a better secondary capability as an air superiority fighter. On paper the Su-34 could be used for air to air purposes but in practical terms it is more of a medium range strike aircraft... and would be a waste as a fighter.




    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order
    avatar
    d_taddei2

    Posts : 898
    Points : 1060
    Join date : 2013-05-11
    Location : Scotland UK

    Re: Iraq turns its eye on Russian weapons

    Post  d_taddei2 on Fri Jan 27, 2017 5:41 am

    GarryB wrote:I would agree with that... an upgraded MiG-29 wont intimidate the neighbours but will kick ISIS ass, and Su-25s would be rather more use than supersonic fighters any day.

    Fencers have proved that with good intel on the ground situation they can still get the job done without costing a fortune.

    Perhaps even a few bomb trucks would be useful... half a dozen Tu-22M3s for the purposes of absolutely trashing a target with conventional ordinance when needed... but they would not be cheap.

    I would probably go for the Su-30 rather than the Su-34 as while it is cheaper and less capable as a strike aircraft the Su-30 is good enough for most purposes and has a better secondary capability as an air superiority fighter. On paper the Su-34 could be used for air to air purposes but in practical terms it is more of a medium range strike aircraft... and would be a waste as a fighter.




    Tu-22M3's would be nice lol, but its unlikely. The Su-25 would be ideal for supporting offensives and ground troops along with Iraq's Mi-35 and Mi-28, the Su-24 for buildings being used for ammo depots, command centres etc. and the Mig-29 could also be used for buildings or kept on high alert to intercept enemy convoys. Their hellfire armed Cessna AC-208 Caravan could be used on enemy armour and bunkers etc. and i suppose their L-159A could be used for scouting and taking out enemy artillery positions and convoys. Iraq doesn't really need high end aircraft, 12 Su-30SM, 24 Mig-29M2, and and some decent land based air defense (Buk, Tor, Pantsir, S-300VM) would be enough to protect Iraqi airspace although this isn't a current issue just now. Their current issues require only really CAS aircraft and attack heli's. I am surprised Iraq hasn't bought armed super Tucano from Brazil, cheap to buy and operate and pretty good in COIN operations, another thing i am surprised they haven't bought is armed versions of Mi-17 as it seems to be kinda popular to countries on a tight budget to purchase this along with transport versions. Anyway, Russia and Iraq could be good for each other Russia looking to sell off surplus BMP-1, BMP-2, T-72, 2S1, 2S3, BM-21, MT-LB, Sa-13, Sa-8, Tunkuska, as well as sales of new BTR-82, Tigr-m, typhoon MRAP, tornado, and metis and Kornet, to name a few and Iraq looking for a willing, hassle free, and on time supplier who can provide effective and fairly cheap (compared to western equivalent) equipment something USA can't/won't do. It really does boil down to fit for purpose and needs as well as cost and Russia has something for everybody, every threat, every need, and for every budget.
    avatar
    GarryB

    Posts : 16315
    Points : 16946
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Iraq turns its eye on Russian weapons

    Post  GarryB on Fri Jan 27, 2017 9:02 am

    I agree it is not super likely but then the Iraqis did have the Tu-22 in service before... sure it is a different aircraft, but it is a theatre bomber too.

    No strings attached hardware that works...

    What is not to like.

    Equipment that is cheap to use and effective.


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order

    iraqidabab

    Posts : 320
    Points : 335
    Join date : 2014-05-31

    Re: Iraq turns its eye on Russian weapons

    Post  iraqidabab on Sat Jan 28, 2017 2:52 am

    SU-24's are too outdated to purchase now. We have to think ahead of long-term threats which will come from neighbors. The CAS role will be fulfilled by the F-16's, L-159, FA-50 (Korean) and SU-25. What lacks is some modern air platform that threatens neighbors like SU-30's and/or 34's for the ground attack.

    TU-22M3 would be very useful and practical in today's situation but i'm sure that would alarm all neighbors given how deadly a combination it would be when defended by SU-30's. I'm aware of the current financial problem in Iraq. Militarily speaking, a couple squadrons of SU-30's and perhaps 12-24 SU-34's would enable IQAF to counter every regional threat.

    ~30 fighter aircraft would be smaller than Kuwaits air force whilst Iraq has to deter Iran, Saud, Syria and Turkey's AF. Highly likely 96+ more fighter jets are eventually going to be purchased to build up the squadrons.
    avatar
    d_taddei2

    Posts : 898
    Points : 1060
    Join date : 2013-05-11
    Location : Scotland UK

    Re: Iraq turns its eye on Russian weapons

    Post  d_taddei2 on Sat Jan 28, 2017 7:05 am

    iraqidabab wrote:SU-24's are too outdated to purchase now. We have to think ahead of long-term threats which will come from neighbors. The CAS role will be fulfilled by the F-16's, L-159, FA-50 (Korean) and SU-25. What lacks is some modern air platform that threatens neighbors like SU-30's and/or 34's for the ground attack.

    TU-22M3 would be very useful and practical in today's situation but i'm sure that would alarm all neighbors given how deadly a combination it would be when defended by SU-30's. I'm aware of the current financial problem in Iraq. Militarily speaking, a couple squadrons of SU-30's and perhaps 12-24 SU-34's would enable IQAF to counter every regional threat.

    ~30 fighter aircraft would be smaller than Kuwaits air force whilst Iraq has to deter Iran, Saud, Syria and Turkey's AF. Highly likely 96+ more fighter jets are eventually going to be purchased to build up the squadrons.

    I can't really see the Syrian's or Iranian's being a threat to Iraq considering the co-operation going on at the moment. I would imagine that after ISIS and the rest of the terrorists are destroyed that Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, and Iran will become closer allies especially if Erdo is still doing crazy shit.

    As for the Su-24 being outdated i disagree with upgrades such as Gefest it becomes a capable ground attack aircraft, and Iraq should be able to secure them fairly cheaply, its all too easy to say it have 30 aircraft of Su-30 and Su-34 but Iraq doesn't have the money and they still need to rebuild their country. Like i said 12 Su-30, 12-24 Mig-29M2, Su-25, and Su-24 would be more than enough just now in till the country is re-built and the money is back in the pot. Biggest threat to Iraq is terrorism, not so much neighbouring countries.

    Also F-16 are not ideal CAS, better with the Su-25 and maybe some Super Tucano cost is around $14-16mn each cheap effective and ideal at killing scum.
    avatar
    GarryB

    Posts : 16315
    Points : 16946
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Iraq turns its eye on Russian weapons

    Post  GarryB on Sat Jan 28, 2017 11:19 am

    Actually I would say the best bet would normally be an Su-24 with the G&T upgrade to allow it to operate with cheap dumb bombs making it cheap to buy and cheap to actually use.

    The problem is that the Su-24 operating in your own airspace is overkill... penetrating enemy airspace at low altitude and high speed is what it is all about.

    Fitting the G&T upgrades to Su-25s and MiG-29s would offer cheap point target capability in robust cheap aircraft. In the case of the MiG you can upgrade to semi MiG-35 level if you start with the MiG-29M2 model which should be affordable and also capable.

    With the upgrade the Su-25 can hit hard with unguided bombs and rockets and survive return fire like few other aircraft can.

    The critical thing is that with the upgrades... which are not expensive... they do their work with cheap simple ammo so you can actually afford to use them a lot... which is a critical thing most westerners ignore.

    Some unmanned drones able to carry light weapons would be interesting too... perhaps a joint venture with a Russian company. The Soviets developed a range of ATGMs optimised for use from aircraft. ASCII codenames AT-2, AT-6 and AT-9 are all high speed command guided missiles with no wire guidance to slow them down.

    Experience has shown these missiles could penetrate even the heaviest tank deployed in the region from the flank or rear and the HE equipped models would be rather more effective against targets like vehicles or rooms of a building make them even more useful.

    A light high flying UAV with the equivalent of the G&T upgrade would allow cheap light bombs to be used effectively... FAB-50 in internal weapon bays would be devastating against light targets and limit collateral damage to the area.


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order
    avatar
    d_taddei2

    Posts : 898
    Points : 1060
    Join date : 2013-05-11
    Location : Scotland UK

    Re: Iraq turns its eye on Russian weapons

    Post  d_taddei2 on Sat Jan 28, 2017 10:54 pm

    GarryB wrote:Actually I would say the best bet would normally be an Su-24 with the G&T upgrade to allow it to operate with cheap dumb bombs making it cheap to buy and cheap to actually use.

    The problem is that the Su-24 operating in your own airspace is overkill... penetrating enemy airspace at low altitude and high speed is what it is all about.

    Fitting the G&T upgrades to Su-25s and MiG-29s would offer cheap point target capability in robust cheap aircraft. In the case of the MiG you can upgrade to semi MiG-35 level if you start with the MiG-29M2 model which should be affordable and also capable.

    With the upgrade the Su-25 can hit hard with unguided bombs and rockets and survive return fire like few other aircraft can.

    The critical thing is that with the upgrades... which are not expensive... they do their work with cheap simple ammo so you can actually afford to use them a lot... which is a critical thing most westerners ignore.

    Some unmanned drones able to carry light weapons would be interesting too... perhaps a joint venture with a Russian company. The Soviets developed a range of ATGMs optimised for use from aircraft. ASCII codenames AT-2, AT-6 and AT-9 are all high speed command guided missiles with no wire guidance to slow them down.

    Experience has shown these missiles could penetrate even the heaviest tank deployed in the region from the flank or rear and the HE equipped models would be rather more effective against targets like vehicles or rooms of a building make them even more useful.

    A light high flying UAV with the equivalent of the G&T upgrade would allow cheap light bombs to be used effectively... FAB-50 in internal weapon bays would be devastating against light targets and limit collateral damage to the area.

    i couldn't agree more, and i like the idea of UAV using existing missiles such as the AT-2, AT-6, etc, cheap simple and effective, and like you pointed out the munitions need to be cheap and used with the G&T make them pretty accurate so that they can be used in greater numbers and it won't break the bank in a conflict.
    avatar
    GarryB

    Posts : 16315
    Points : 16946
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Iraq turns its eye on Russian weapons

    Post  GarryB on Sun Jan 29, 2017 5:36 am

    Any AT-2 stocks would likely be time expired but any existing stock of AT-3 would be useful in SACLOS mode to defeat suicide bombers. HEAT warheads and HE warheads can be used depending upon the tactic of the enemy...HEAT for armoured trucks and HE for unarmoured vehicles.

    Fagot and Konkurs were cheap enough and made in fairly enormous numbers, but then for infantry use the Metis was developed because it was so cheap and easy to manufacture.

    Of course for aircraft deployment the Shturm or Ataka are perfectly adequate as they are without modification and for ground forces Metis-M are cheap and simple for the task.


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order

    sheytanelkebir

    Posts : 498
    Points : 515
    Join date : 2013-09-16

    Re: Iraq turns its eye on Russian weapons

    Post  sheytanelkebir on Fri Feb 24, 2017 12:14 pm

    At the recent IDEX show there was another request by Iraq for new heavy weapons from russia (without details) and the Russian counterpart said they are eager to assist Iraq with that... whether the financial wall can be climbed is another question.


    Recently however there was cooperation between Iraq and Russia in defence production:

    -Russia agreed to allow Iraq to manufacture the ATAKA missiles for domestic Iraqi use.
    -They discussed a cooperation between Iraq and uralvagonzavod to upgrade Iraqi T72s to T90 standard which they called "T92". Since Iraq can't afford to buy new tanks. Russia also said they can supply old tanks that can be domestically upgraded.

    Beyond Russia, Iraq has also come to an agreement to produce locally the Belarusian anti tank missile Shershen.
    avatar
    GarryB

    Posts : 16315
    Points : 16946
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Iraq turns its eye on Russian weapons

    Post  GarryB on Sat Feb 25, 2017 3:27 am

    Those are reasonable low cost solutions to Iraqs current problems.

    With the value of oil so low it does not make sense to get into enormous debt to anyone.

    But you have rats to kill... with modern optics and communcations an upgraded T-72 with a 125mm gun and some decent ERA should be as effective as any other modern tank, while likely remaining affordable and usable.


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order
    avatar
    Isos

    Posts : 775
    Points : 777
    Join date : 2015-11-06

    Re: Iraq turns its eye on Russian weapons

    Post  Isos on Tue Feb 28, 2017 11:16 pm

    GarryB wrote:Those are reasonable low cost solutions to Iraqs current problems.

    With the value of oil so low it does not make sense to get into enormous debt to anyone.

    But you have rats to kill... with modern optics and communcations an upgraded T-72 with a 125mm gun and some decent ERA should be as effective as any other modern tank, while likely remaining affordable and usable.

    Is the Arena system available for export ?
    avatar
    GarryB

    Posts : 16315
    Points : 16946
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Iraq turns its eye on Russian weapons

    Post  GarryB on Wed Mar 01, 2017 9:45 am

    Both ARENA and Shtora are available for export... not cheap but them getting them into service and operational should help the technology mature and reduce costs...


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order
    avatar
    Isos

    Posts : 775
    Points : 777
    Join date : 2015-11-06

    Re: Iraq turns its eye on Russian weapons

    Post  Isos on Wed Mar 01, 2017 1:52 pm

    GarryB wrote:Both ARENA and Shtora are available for export... not cheap but them getting them into service and operational should help the technology mature and reduce costs...

    If Iraq wants tanks, they will need to equip them with Arena. If not they will be destroyed easily by all the ATGM all groups have. Against russian ATM shtora is useless.

    Sponsored content

    Re: Iraq turns its eye on Russian weapons

    Post  Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Tue Aug 22, 2017 5:23 am