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    Iraq turns its eye on Russian weapons

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    TR1

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    Re: Iraq turns its eye on Russian weapons

    Post  TR1 on Fri Dec 13, 2013 12:55 pm

    Hmm, Yak-130 would be a great L-159 alternative, not sure it pulls up to levels of T-50 in terms of performance or integrated avionics though, after all it is a subsonic advanced trainer at heart.

    The "air-to-air" Yak-130 is still under development too, but then again same goes for T-50...anyways I hope all this political stalling at least leads them to eventually rationalize the purchases logically, it is all over the place right now.

    Btw, apparently Indonesia might purchase some of those BTR-4s that are on a world cruise...

    Hope Russia continues growing relations with Iraq, I think the near-mid term return will be far more lucrative than sinking money into Ukraine to stay on "our side", whatever that even means.

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    Re: Iraq turns its eye on Russian weapons

    Post  sheytanelkebir on Fri Dec 13, 2013 1:38 pm

    Ukraine is the buffer between Russia and NATO... and also one of the main gas routes to Europe. So it is rather important for Russia IMHO. Iraq is far more a "commercial" deal as well as a "foothold" in the gulf.

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    Re: Iraq turns its eye on Russian weapons

    Post  sheytanelkebir on Fri Dec 13, 2013 1:39 pm

    What I would personally like is a modern SU25 for the "light attack" aircraft and completely separate advanced trainers (regardless of type, they are all "ok" IMHO).
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    TR1

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    Re: Iraq turns its eye on Russian weapons

    Post  TR1 on Fri Dec 13, 2013 1:51 pm

    sheytanelkebir wrote:Ukraine is the buffer between Russia and NATO... and also one of the main gas routes to Europe. So it is rather important for Russia IMHO. Iraq is far more a "commercial" deal as well as a "foothold" in the gulf.

    Iraq doesn't have half of the population hate Russia due to inferiority/superiority complexes.

    Gas can be shipped around Ukraine.

    I would rather my Russian tax money go into a loan to Iraq than Ukraine, any day. Iraq has natural resources to pay it off, Ukraine has jack squat.

    I don't believe in NATO buffer theory anyways, not in this decade. If Russia forges closer economic ties (as it has) with Italy, Germany, France, etc, European NATO is no threat.

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    Re: Iraq turns its eye on Russian weapons

    Post  sheytanelkebir on Fri Dec 13, 2013 8:48 pm

    after the initial exuberance... I am now officially ANTI the T50IQ deal. Although technically it is the BEST LIFT aircraft.



    The price of the FA50 on which the T50IQ is based is $30M per unit. Iraq is paying $45.8M per unit for its aircraft, and another $41M per aircaft for service and support.

    There are 2 possibilities:
    1- The Iraqi T50IQ has new AESA radar and upgraded F414 engine and hardened wings for 9 hardpoints. To explain the price difference.

    2- The deal is overpriced due to a mix of corruption and overcharging by the manufacturer.

    Also there is the question about why Iraq has accepted the supply of Aim-9M and AiM7M missiles for the F16IQ and T50IQ which cannot match or intercept the aircraft of any of our neighbouring countries who are all equipping with AiM9X and Aim120C7 AMRAAM missiles.

    The Philippines are getting FA50 They are paying $31M per unit "flyaway" with a total cost including training and support of $38M per unit. their eventual lifecycle cost is $4750 per hour.

    The Indonesians are getting TA50 for $25M per unit. and have an eventual lifecycle cost of about $4000/hour

    Korea is buying FA50 for $31M per unit.

    Iraq is buying FA50 WITHOUT the Israeli Elta El/M2032 radar for $45.8M flyaway cost and $87.5M per aircraft including training and support. Over 20 years and 8000 flight hours, the cost per hour is $11,000 excluding fuel! That is more than DOUBLE the price that Philippines / Korea / Indonesia are paying!!

    The mathematics are there for you

    compared to the "lifecycle cost" for the JAS39 gripen of about $3500/hour.

    unjustifiable price.
    I HOPE THE DEAL IS CANCELLED BECAUSE THE IRAQIS WILL BE OVERCHARGED BY about $1Bn in a $2Bn deal!!

    That $1Bn is enough to build 20,000 houses for the poor and homeless people Iraq.

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    Re: Iraq turns its eye on Russian weapons

    Post  sheytanelkebir on Fri Dec 13, 2013 8:53 pm

    I hope that people in rosoboronexport realise the same thing and fly into Baghdad tomorrow to scuttle this deal.

    I can imagine rosoboronexport can offer:

    36x Yak130 trainers ($600M)
    24x SU25s ($600M)

    for about $1.2Bn offer a far superior deal!



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    TR1

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    Re: Iraq turns its eye on Russian weapons

    Post  TR1 on Fri Dec 13, 2013 10:14 pm

    Thanks for info. Maybe Rogozin can stop being useless and fly to Iraq to make things happen.

    Russia can't offer new single seat Su-25s, but it can offer Su-25UBM. Not sure how long that would take however, they have been "trialing" the plane for several years now.

    If Iraq really wanted Su-25 they could buy used Su-25 for extremely cheap and have them modernized to SM level, for which RuAF paid 4 million per bird. Or even more advanced SM3, though I am not sure about price. Either way, if we just look at the bird, 24 Su-25s would go for far less than 600 million IMO. They could probably get a bunch of spares, engines + weapons for that price, as well as the full spec SM3 bird.

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    Re: Iraq turns its eye on Russian weapons

    Post  sheytanelkebir on Sat Dec 14, 2013 12:11 am

    I know that there are no new SU25s... which is a shame Sad still even if they get some 12-20 twin seaters in addition to 36 Yak130s it would be a damn sight more reasonable than the T50IQ deal.

    I wonder if BAe will go in with a counterdeal now too?
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    mack8

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    Re: Iraq turns its eye on Russian weapons

    Post  mack8 on Sat Dec 14, 2013 7:46 pm

    Not that i want to pour more gas on the fire (well only a little bit Very Happy), but i was playing around with the figures for the KAI T-50, and what could Iraq get from Rosoboronexport with that money.

    Some examples: recently Vietnam paid 600 million for 12 Su-30MK2. Previous contract for same number was 1 billion, but that included weapons. The vehiculated number for the potential 24 Su-35 contract for China was 1.5 billion, likely just the aircraft. India payed 2.3 billion for 42 Super Su-30MKI (i saw higher figures, allegedly because these will be wired for nuclear weapons, or perhaps development costs are included, or both). Algeria apparently payed 1.5 billion for 16 Su-30MKA but that MUST include weapons. As for MiG-35, i saw a vehiculated figure for 24  for Egypt at 1.7 billion but this likely MUST include weapons and support (as it would be a new type for EAF). So imo, one can estimate per unit costs at over 40-45 million for MiG-35, about 50 million for Su-30MK2, 55-60 million  or more for Su-30MKI, and 65 million for Su-35. As for Su-34, i would estimate a figure very close to Su-35, say between 60 and 70 million,  it's a big, heavy plane with very sophisticated electronics. We saw that the Yak-130 goes for about 20 million.

    (Note, prices for RuMOD are government regulated and much lower than above, Su-34 is around 36  million (!), MiG-35 and MiG-29SMT are 30 million and i'm sure the Su-35 is also  below 40 millions etc.)

    As for support, not sure about that, but even if we take the ratios like for KAI T-50, i guess the above figures (for aircraft only) double or more in 20 years. Still that shows what you can potentially get from Russia for 2.1 billion!
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    Iraq turns its eye on Russian weapons

    Post  flamming_python on Sat Dec 14, 2013 10:59 pm

    sheytanelkebir wrote:I know that there are no new SU25s... which is a shame Sad

    Last I heard, Georgia pitched the Azeris a JV on the production of a new Su-25 version; something like that.
    Though it won't be ready for a while and there may be other uncertainties too. It would probably would make more sense to go for Russia's Su-25UBM two-seaters.

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    Re: Iraq turns its eye on Russian weapons

    Post  sheytanelkebir on Fri Jan 03, 2014 7:17 pm

    the Iraqi commander of the ground forces (general ali ghaidan) said that Iraq has increased its order for Mi35M to 70 helicopters... and then today they said that 13 more Mi35Ms arrived in Iraq.... can this be true?
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    TR1

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    Re: Iraq turns its eye on Russian weapons

    Post  TR1 on Fri Jan 03, 2014 7:24 pm

    LOL, I would not be surprised if certain blogs made accusations in that direction.

    What is shocking (aside from the utter incompetence of the forge that made them) is that they (Kharkiv, Ukoboronexport) actually inspected these hulls, and thought they could just load em up and ship them away, with no consequences.

    Bribery mess up maybe? Seems like this goes even beyond that.

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    Re: Iraq turns its eye on Russian weapons

    Post  sheytanelkebir on Fri Jan 03, 2014 8:06 pm

    this will be an expensive lesson for Ukraine. Their international reputation for arms production is at rock bottom now...

    BUT, just last week the Ukrainian Ambassador was trying to entice the Iraqi government to invest in Ukrainian Industry! Cheeky.

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    Re: Iraq turns its eye on Russian weapons

    Post  sheytanelkebir on Fri Jan 03, 2014 8:12 pm

    in other news...

    the iraqi news are saying that today 21 self propelled howitzers were received from Russia as part of the $4.2Bn deal.


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    Re: Iraq turns its eye on Russian weapons

    Post  sheytanelkebir on Sat Jan 04, 2014 12:23 am

    In other news the air defence command published its current ORBAT... and it includes 1x AVENGER battalion, 1xPantsir Battalion and one IGLA battalion.

    First news that IGLAs were included in the arms deal with Russia.

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    Re: Iraq turns its eye on Russian weapons

    Post  sheytanelkebir on Sat Jan 04, 2014 12:55 am

    and in yet another piece of news....

    there's indication that the Iraqi Army may choose the T90 modernised version for its future MBT.

    The Iraqi army is currently short of about 1200 tanks for its current units. There's been a selection competition for a new tank for some years.

    The army is "nominally" having the following divisions:

    2x armour (2x330 tanks needed)
    5x mechanised (5x 156 tanks needed)
    6x motorised (6x 56 tanks needed)
    2x light infantry (2x 32 tanks needed)

    But in reality they have about only 600MBTs currently in service / on order (about 330M1A1SA including current orders, 200x T72 and 100x Type69), and need over 1800 MBT to fill out their needed tank brigades.


    I think because Iraq urgently needs a large number of MBTs and no single source can fulfill such an order in a short period, they will most probably continue buying tanks from several sources and have them split by unit.
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    Re: Iraq turns its eye on Russian weapons

    Post  Viktor on Sun Jan 05, 2014 12:40 am

     thumbsup 

    Batch of 13 Russian Mi-28N "Night Hunter" arrived in Iraq

    Batch of 13 modern Mi-28N "Night Hunter" production holding "Helicopters of Russia" has arrived in the port of Umm Qasr in southern Iraq. As reported in Saturday channel "Al-Sumar," Russian military equipment will be used in anti-terrorist operations in Anbar province in the west of the country.

    Its going to get interesting !!!

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    Re: Iraq turns its eye on Russian weapons

    Post  sheytanelkebir on Sun Jan 05, 2014 2:21 am

    I read this on http://itar-tass.com/politika/871671 too

    but somehow I am doubtful of this "news"... seems like circular copy-pasting from one erroneous original source.

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    Re: Iraq turns its eye on Russian weapons

    Post  sheytanelkebir on Mon Jan 13, 2014 4:35 pm

    Iraqi media are saying that 56 armoured vehicles have arrived in Iraq from Russia, comprising:
    -24 artillery pieces
    -32 APCs


    any idea if this rumour has any truth in it... any reports from russian sources about any such sales to Iraq?
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    flamming_python

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    Re: Iraq turns its eye on Russian weapons

    Post  flamming_python on Tue Jan 14, 2014 8:14 am

    sheytanelkebir wrote:Iraqi media are saying that 56 armoured vehicles have arrived in Iraq from Russia, comprising:
    -24 artillery pieces
    -32 APCs


    any idea if this rumour has any truth in it... any reports from russian sources about any such sales to Iraq?

    Well I remember hearing that an Iraqi delegation was displaying an interest in BTR-82 APCs some months back at one of the expos (Nizhny Tagil? IDEX?)
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    Re: Iraq turns its eye on Russian weapons

    Post  Viktor on Thu Feb 20, 2014 3:42 pm

    I have a feeling that Russia-Iraq signed some new contracts

    Military deliveries to Iraq on schedule, Baghdad wishes to speed them up - Lavrov



    Yup here it is - first mention of the contracted planes!!! and about special means to fight terrorism - could it be Terminator???

    Russia has agreed to provide Iraq with planes, weapons and special means to fight terrorism,” he said. “This March we plan to hold an international anti-terrorism conference in Baghdad.”

    LINK

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    Re: Iraq turns its eye on Russian weapons

    Post  sheytanelkebir on Thu Feb 20, 2014 6:37 pm

    well the head of Iraqi Special Operations Forces just posed with one of these...




    ORSIS T-5000?
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    mack8

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    Re: Iraq turns its eye on Russian weapons

    Post  mack8 on Thu Feb 20, 2014 9:27 pm

    Is that Barwari, the one who allegedly said there are MiGs in the russian deal, and expected soon? Unless Lavrov meant "helicopters" instead of "planes" (not unexpected)...could it be ?

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    Re: Iraq turns its eye on Russian weapons

    Post  sheytanelkebir on Fri Feb 21, 2014 10:21 am

    mack8 wrote:Is that Barwari,

    yes.

    the one who allegedly said there are MiGs in the russian deal,

    he did not. somebody pretending to be him on a facebook group did!

    and expected soon? Unless Lavrov meant "helicopters" instead of "planes" (not unexpected)...could it be ?

    We don't know. The only "official" source we've had say Iraq is buying MiG35s has been the head of the US Iraqi defence and security cooperation...
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    zg18

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    Re: Iraq turns its eye on Russian weapons

    Post  zg18 on Fri Feb 21, 2014 3:08 pm

    sheytanelkebir wrote:ORSIS T-5000?

    Yes




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