Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues


    Type-99 vs T-90A

    Share

    Zivo
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 1504
    Points : 1540
    Join date : 2012-04-13
    Location : U.S.A.

    Re: Type-99 vs T-90A

    Post  Zivo on Tue Dec 03, 2013 9:37 pm

    the russians even copied the wedge shape of the turret in their newest t-90.
    If you talk about T-90MS, many features on it were actually copied from Ukrainian T-84

    I had to check my address bar, for a second I thought I was on f16.net.

    TR1
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 5840
    Points : 5892
    Join date : 2011-12-06

    Re: Type-99 vs T-90A

    Post  TR1 on Wed Dec 04, 2013 9:51 am

    Once again, I am shocked why people chose to indulge childish idiocy.

    T-90MS has nothing in common with Oplot, period.

    Ofc RPG showing he knows absolutely nothing about tanks is nothing new.
    Apparently he is blind as well though, if he finds the T-90As turret to be a copy of the Type -99s lol.
    Doesn't know the dates involved in the projects either apparently.

    collegeboy16
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 1207
    Points : 1234
    Join date : 2012-10-05
    Age : 20
    Location : Roanapur

    Re: Type-99 vs T-90A

    Post  collegeboy16 on Wed Dec 04, 2013 10:44 am

    hahaha, T-90 copied from Type-99... sorry but who told you taht. if anything I would say the type-99 is a lousy copy of T-90 with elements from western designs awkwardly thrown in. case in point, type-99s turret sides arent hidden behind turret front within safe manuevering angles. Its also not protected by thick composite armor, just a thin layer of plain steel, any grazing hit would injure/ kill either gunner/ commander. Also the huge engine that extends the vehicle by a meter.
    Oh and about oplot, well protection wise it could be better than T-90MS, but that doesnt really matter since T-90MS is meant for export and armata MBT is just around the corner anyway and comparing against such a beast both tanks' armor would be tissue paper.

    KomissarBojanchev
    Lieutenant Colonel
    Lieutenant Colonel

    Posts : 991
    Points : 1144
    Join date : 2012-08-05
    Age : 19
    Location : Varna, Bulgaria

    Re: Type-99 vs T-90A

    Post  KomissarBojanchev on Thu Dec 05, 2013 9:43 pm

    Although I don't think the type 99 is superior, can we really stop the anti-Chinese bias? Although it has some rather large disadvantages(slow acceleration, unusually large weight to size, poor coaxial MG) we can't just go on and assume that every single equipment piece on the type 99 is completely inferior to its Russian counterpart. I personally don't believe in the dogma that Chinese guns always have inferior munitions compared to all western and Russian ones.

    Neoprime
    Private
    Private

    Posts : 17
    Points : 23
    Join date : 2013-07-20
    Location : USA

    Re: Type-99 vs T-90A

    Post  Neoprime on Fri Dec 06, 2013 5:20 am

    To me it's superior, lets say you have something like the ZTZ/Type 99KM that has an option for a 155 mm smoothbore gun, added it moves a 80km, with a 2100 hp engine, it has similar specs a the T-90, but to me it would kill it if they ever battled(depending on the experience of the crew), it's to slow, and the Type 99 cannons are to powerful, the Type 99A1's already have a 125 mm .50 caliber gun, and the Type 99A2 has an option for a 140mm cannon.

    GarryB
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 15468
    Points : 16175
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Type-99 vs T-90A

    Post  GarryB on Fri Dec 06, 2013 7:51 am

    If you don't know how to make something getting your hands on it is not always the solution.

    For simple things you can generally copy fairly easily, but for very complex high tech stuff like jet engines or tank guns you basically have to know what you are doing.

    Particularly in guns you can compensate by not having sophisticated ammo but just going to larger calibre for effect.

    The Chinese certainly compensate for not having the most sophisticated penetrators by just using larger ammo in a longer gun, but at the end of the day there are tradeoffs.


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order

    TR1
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 5840
    Points : 5892
    Join date : 2011-12-06

    Re: Type-99 vs T-90A

    Post  TR1 on Fri Dec 06, 2013 9:57 am

    Neoprime wrote:To me it's superior, lets say you have something like the ZTZ/Type 99KM that has an option for a 155 mm smoothbore gun, added it moves a 80km, with a 2100 hp engine, it has similar specs a the T-90, but to me it would kill it if they ever battled(depending on the experience of the crew), it's to slow, and the Type 99 cannons are to powerful, the Type 99A1's already have a 125 mm .50 caliber gun, and the Type 99A2 has an option for a 140mm cannon.
    Fairy tales are not reality, sorry.


    collegeboy16
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 1207
    Points : 1234
    Join date : 2012-10-05
    Age : 20
    Location : Roanapur

    Re: Type-99 vs T-90A

    Post  collegeboy16 on Fri Dec 06, 2013 1:24 pm

    type 99KM has awesome stats on paper.... but if introduced its contemporary would be the Armata MBT, and compared to that, the Type-99KM is but a paper tiger in front of a storm.Twisted Evil

    Also, remember Armata MBT would most likely have vertical AL allowing 1m long projectiles, and an awesome gun that is 25% more powerful than 120MM L-55, and with newer propellants maybe much more. Also, them russkies have the advanced materials science and tech to make advanced DU & W penetrators, from what little I have learned Grifel has abnormally long L/D ratio, its as long as m829a3 yet as thin as DM53! Also, armata would have new engine that can be uprated through the years to allow even 2100 hp as normal ouput in late models.

    Neoprime
    Private
    Private

    Posts : 17
    Points : 23
    Join date : 2013-07-20
    Location : USA

    Re: Type-99 vs T-90A

    Post  Neoprime on Fri Dec 06, 2013 2:58 pm

    TR1 wrote:
    Neoprime wrote:To me it's superior, lets say you have something like the ZTZ/Type 99KM that has an option for a 155 mm smoothbore gun, added it moves a 80km, with a 2100 hp engine, it has similar specs a the T-90, but to me it would kill it if they ever battled(depending on the experience of the crew), it's to slow, and the Type 99 cannons are to powerful, the Type 99A1's already have a 125 mm .50 caliber gun, and the Type 99A2 has an option for a 140mm cannon.
    Fairy tales are not reality, sorry.

    How about putting up an argument, criticism or something.

    Neoprime
    Private
    Private

    Posts : 17
    Points : 23
    Join date : 2013-07-20
    Location : USA

    Re: Type-99 vs T-90A

    Post  Neoprime on Fri Dec 06, 2013 3:03 pm

    collegeboy16 wrote:type 99KM has awesome stats on paper.... but if introduced its contemporary would be the Armata MBT, and compared to that, the Type-99KM is but a paper tiger in front of a storm.Twisted Evil

    Also, remember Armata MBT would most likely have vertical AL allowing 1m long projectiles, and an awesome gun that is 25% more powerful than 120MM L-55, and with newer propellants maybe much more.  Also, them russkies have the advanced materials science and tech to make advanced DU & W penetrators, from what little I have learned Grifel has abnormally long L/D ratio, its as long as m829a3 yet as thin as DM53! Also, armata would have new engine that can be uprated through the years to allow even 2100 hp as normal ouput in late models.
    But, the Chinese have more money and is the 2nd strongest economy, so it can actually accomplish it's goals/projects they don't cancel too many anyway, however the Russian economy has got better, but it still may not get some of it's goals done if it doesn't have the funds and may have to hold off on them(not saying Armata is done).

    collegeboy16
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 1207
    Points : 1234
    Join date : 2012-10-05
    Age : 20
    Location : Roanapur

    Re: Type-99 vs T-90A

    Post  collegeboy16 on Fri Dec 06, 2013 4:35 pm

    Neoprime wrote:
    But, the Chinese have more money and is the 2nd strongest economy, so it can actually accomplish it's goals/projects they don't cancel too many anyway, however the Russian economy has got better, but it still may not get some of it's goals done if it doesn't have the funds and may have to hold off on them(not saying Armata is done).
    Even in the darkest years of 90s the russkies came up with T-95, please show us an equivalent from the middle kingdom...

    Werewolf
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 5390
    Points : 5639
    Join date : 2012-10-24

    Re: Type-99 vs T-90A

    Post  Werewolf on Fri Dec 06, 2013 5:24 pm

    Please get rid of this fairy tale of USA beeing the worlds best economy.
    Having the largest debts nullifies any income, you just print money from nowhere, that doesn't make it a great economy, it is just a pathetic system that creats debts and more debts since you have to pay interest to FED. You have no economy whatsoever.

    Last i checked statistics have shown that over 60-70% of USA all living on credit cards, noone is even trying to buy what he can afford, no they buy what they can not afford, great society.

    China is currently the worlds best economy and there is still a huge chunk of US's debts that belong to China.

    TR1
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 5840
    Points : 5892
    Join date : 2011-12-06

    Re: Type-99 vs T-90A

    Post  TR1 on Fri Dec 06, 2013 7:30 pm

    Neoprime wrote:
    TR1 wrote:
    Neoprime wrote:To me it's superior, lets say you have something like the ZTZ/Type 99KM that has an option for a 155 mm smoothbore gun, added it moves a 80km, with a 2100 hp engine, it has similar specs a the T-90, but to me it would kill it if they ever battled(depending on the experience of the crew), it's to slow, and the Type 99 cannons are to powerful, the Type 99A1's already have a 125 mm .50 caliber gun, and the Type 99A2 has an option for a 140mm cannon.
    Fairy tales are not reality, sorry.

    How about putting up an argument, criticism or something.
    The part I bolded is the fairy tale part.

    Type 99 is alright. It is an amalgamation of Soviet, European and Chinese equipment, desighns and ideas. Nothing really revolutionary.

    GarryB
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 15468
    Points : 16175
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Type-99 vs T-90A

    Post  GarryB on Sat Dec 07, 2013 10:15 am

    Also, armata would have new engine that can be uprated through the years to allow even 2100 hp as normal ouput in late models.
    The standard model will have a 1,400hp output AFAIK but later models of the family will have the capacity to operate at up to 2,400hp but with a shorter engine life till materials improve and engine life is extended.


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order

    etaepsilonk
    Captain
    Captain

    Posts : 717
    Points : 699
    Join date : 2013-11-19

    Re: Type-99 vs T-90A

    Post  etaepsilonk on Sat Dec 07, 2013 11:59 am

    I would like to post the reasons, why I stated that T-90ms was influenced by t-84.
    Basically, those upgrades were pretty similar in FEATURES. And those would be:

    Bustle mounted ammo storage.
    All-round heavy ERA coverage.
    Big panoramic sight for commander, in favor of usual cupola.
    The turret, widened in the same manner (and producing that famous "turret gap").

    Given that T-90MS upgrade used preciselly those features, I come to conclusion that it was indeed heavily influenced by T-84. And considering recent big lay-offs at Malyshev plant, and that some of these workers allegedly applied for work at UVZ, I don't even think, that T-90MS designers needed any blueprints anyway.

    GarryB
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 15468
    Points : 16175
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Type-99 vs T-90A

    Post  GarryB on Sun Dec 08, 2013 7:27 am

    Don't forget the T-84 also has a T in its designation, so the T-90MS is copying that too.

    Not to mention it also copies the fact that both vehicles have autoloaders, both vehicles have three crew, both vehicles are tracked... except the thing is that the T-84 wasn't the first tank to have these features or any of the ones you have mentioned so I really don't follow what you mean by copied.

    BTW I doubt UVZ would be taking on workers who previously worked in the Ukraine because a lot of their current work is highly secret and I rather doubt Ukrainians working in the MIC would have clearance to work there anyway.


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order

    Neoprime
    Private
    Private

    Posts : 17
    Points : 23
    Join date : 2013-07-20
    Location : USA

    Re: Type-99 vs T-90A

    Post  Neoprime on Sun Dec 08, 2013 3:59 pm

    TR1 wrote:
    Neoprime wrote:
    TR1 wrote:
    Neoprime wrote:To me it's superior, lets say you have something like the ZTZ/Type 99KM that has an option for a 155 mm smoothbore gun, added it moves a 80km, with a 2100 hp engine, it has similar specs a the T-90, but to me it would kill it if they ever battled(depending on the experience of the crew), it's to slow, and the Type 99 cannons are to powerful, the Type 99A1's already have a 125 mm .50 caliber gun, and the Type 99A2 has an option for a 140mm cannon.
    Fairy tales are not reality, sorry.

    How about putting up an argument, criticism or something.
    The part I bolded is the fairy tale part.

    Type 99 is alright. It is an amalgamation of Soviet, European and Chinese equipment, desighns and ideas. Nothing really revolutionary.
    These are some sites that give info on the Type 99KM, Wikipedia used to have the 155mm gun option shown but no longer is there so it may come back.

    http://www.army-technology.com/features/featureon-track-with-todays-top-tanks/

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_99

    Werewolf
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 5390
    Points : 5639
    Join date : 2012-10-24

    Re: Type-99 vs T-90A

    Post  Werewolf on Sun Dec 08, 2013 6:06 pm

    Please do never use Wikishmedia, it is a horrible site for military matters.

    collegeboy16
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 1207
    Points : 1234
    Join date : 2012-10-05
    Age : 20
    Location : Roanapur

    Re: Type-99 vs T-90A

    Post  collegeboy16 on Mon Dec 16, 2013 4:24 pm

    ok, since this is the only thread about pla tanks, ill put my query here.
    What you think is the future for pla armor?
    imo, since they are pretty much in the same boat w reg. to armor with russia,they will need to make new revolutionary designs. perhaps they will be the first to copy the akbt families as the concept also fits them to a t.

    GarryB
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 15468
    Points : 16175
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Type-99 vs T-90A

    Post  GarryB on Tue Dec 17, 2013 11:38 am

    I suspect they might wait to see if the idea is successful before adopting it... let Russia thrash out all the kinks and learn lessons first and then adopt it based on their lessons learned.... like they do with their clones... wait till it is successful and then mimic... very sensible. Smile


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order

    Sponsored content

    Re: Type-99 vs T-90A

    Post  Sponsored content Today at 1:06 pm


      Current date/time is Tue Dec 06, 2016 1:06 pm