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    Serbian Armed Forces

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    Katsudonsan

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    Mysterious Kingdom of Yugoslavia Insignia

    Post  Katsudonsan on Thu May 25, 2017 1:36 pm

    Hello there,



    I recently purchased this Kingdom of Yugoslavia military issued pilot watch circa 1920/1930. Could I trouble somebody to tell me what the insignia stands for? As well as the wording around it. Thank you all! And sorry for any inconveniences caused.



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    George1

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    Re: Serbian Armed Forces

    Post  George1 on Thu May 25, 2017 3:37 pm

    Katsudonsan wrote:Hello there,



    I recently purchased this Kingdom of Yugoslavia military issued pilot watch circa 1920/1930. Could I trouble somebody to tell me what the insignia stands for? As well as the wording around it. Thank you all! And sorry for any inconveniences caused.[/url]

    introduce yourself pls
    http://www.russiadefence.net/f6-member-introductions-and-rules


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    Militarov

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    Re: Serbian Armed Forces

    Post  Militarov on Sun May 28, 2017 2:31 pm

    Katsudonsan wrote:Hello there,



    I recently purchased this Kingdom of Yugoslavia military issued pilot watch circa 1920/1930. Could I trouble somebody to tell me what the insignia stands for? As well as the wording around it. Thank you all! And sorry for any inconveniences caused.




    It says: "We will protect Yugoslavia"

    VA - Acronyme for "Military Academy"

    5th Class
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    Militarov

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    Re: Serbian Armed Forces

    Post  Militarov on Sun May 28, 2017 2:32 pm

    George1 wrote:A new Serbian modification of the M-84 tank is presented

    On the page in the Facebook social network of the Ministry of Defense of Serbia a photo of the new modification of the M-84 tank of the former Yugoslavian production - M-84 AS1 was published.

    On the website of the Serb military industrial association "Jugoimport-SDPR" there is information about the tank modification of the M-84 AS. The upgraded tank is equipped with a 24-hour DNNS 2ATK sight with an infrared night vision device and an optional digital fire control system, the KIS M84 information management system, the TOMS commander's observation device, the SOFTKIL system of active interference in the optical range, the 2nd generation dynamic protection, the engine protection From the wrong actions of the driver-mechanic during the pre-start and engine start-up, communication facilities manufactured by Thales, a remotely controlled module with a 12.7mm machine gun.



    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2602613.html

    It would be about... 4th modernisation in a row that never reached service Very Happy
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    Katsudonsan

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    Re: Serbian Armed Forces

    Post  Katsudonsan on Sun May 28, 2017 7:18 pm

    Militarov wrote:
    Katsudonsan wrote:Hello there,



    I recently purchased this Kingdom of Yugoslavia military issued pilot watch circa 1920/1930. Could I trouble somebody to tell me what the insignia stands for? As well as the wording around it. Thank you all! And sorry for any inconveniences caused.




    It says: "We will protect Yugoslavia"

    VA - Acronyme for "Military Academy"

    5th Class


    Thanks again sir! You've been very helpful.
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    Militarov

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    Re: Serbian Armed Forces

    Post  Militarov on Sun May 28, 2017 7:26 pm

    Katsudonsan wrote:Thanks again sir! You've been very helpful.

    You are welcome. If you have any further questions or anything regarding Serbia or Serbian military feel free to PM or ask me on topics.
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    d_taddei2

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    Re: Serbian Armed Forces

    Post  d_taddei2 on Tue Jul 18, 2017 9:07 pm

    Sorry if this has been already posted
    China donates military equipment to Serbia
    http://defence-blog.com/army/china-donates-military-equipment-to-serbia.html
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    Militarov

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    serbian armed forces

    Post  Militarov on Fri Apr 06, 2018 12:21 am

    littlerabbit wrote:Looks like we will have some new acquisitions in our AF...4 new Mi-17's and 4 new Mi-35's and some stuff for the Army. Smile

    http://tass.com/defense/997538

    Obtaining T-72s while we have dozens of M-84s that can be overhauled and placed back in service, and are younger than those T-72s... and obtaining BMP-2s while we have dozens of M-80s that also can be overhauled and modernised. Sounds like logistic nightmare, even worse than one we already had.

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    Cyberspec

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    Re: Serbian Armed Forces

    Post  Cyberspec on Sat Apr 07, 2018 11:46 pm

    Militarov wrote:
    littlerabbit wrote:Looks like we will have some new acquisitions in our AF...4 new Mi-17's and 4 new Mi-35's and some stuff for the Army. Smile

    http://tass.com/defense/997538

    Obtaining T-72s while we have dozens of M-84s that can be overhauled and placed back in service, and are younger than those T-72s... and obtaining BMP-2s while we have dozens of M-80s that also can be overhauled and modernised. Sounds like logistic nightmare, even worse than one we already had.


    From what I gather, there is already a T-72 company (with a few more in storage) which will become an armoured battalion with these additional T-72's and BMP-2's
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    Militarov

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    Re: Serbian Armed Forces

    Post  Militarov on Sun Apr 08, 2018 3:10 am

    Cyberspec wrote:
    Militarov wrote:
    littlerabbit wrote:Looks like we will have some new acquisitions in our AF...4 new Mi-17's and 4 new Mi-35's and some stuff for the Army. Smile

    http://tass.com/defense/997538

    Obtaining T-72s while we have dozens of M-84s that can be overhauled and placed back in service, and are younger than those T-72s... and obtaining BMP-2s while we have dozens of M-80s that also can be overhauled and modernised. Sounds like logistic nightmare, even worse than one we already had.


    From what I gather, there is already a T-72 company (with a few more in storage) which will become an armoured battalion with these additional T-72's and BMP-2's

    One training T-72M unit exists, serviced by canibalisation of T-72s that are in storage. But its not combat ready unit. These T-72s are also of different variant it seems, most likely T-72S. We never operated BMP-2s, so thats a new weird decision.

    And we have like... probably over 200 M-80s that lay around rotting in "reserve".
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    d_taddei2

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    Re: Serbian Armed Forces

    Post  d_taddei2 on Mon Apr 09, 2018 6:58 pm

    Militarov wrote:
    littlerabbit wrote:Looks like we will have some new acquisitions in our AF...4 new Mi-17's and 4 new Mi-35's and some stuff for the Army. Smile

    http://tass.com/defense/997538

    Obtaining T-72s while we have dozens of M-84s that can be overhauled and placed back in service, and are younger than those T-72s... and obtaining BMP-2s while we have dozens of M-80s that also can be overhauled and modernised. Sounds like logistic nightmare, even worse than one we already had.


    I quite agree. The T-72 in service could be upgraded and the M-84 also could be upgraded they have the skills to do it. T-72 with help from Russia or Belarus  could be upgraded. I believe that the T-72 their getting were gifted or bought at token price. The
    M-80 could easily be upgraded similar to berezhok. They already have M-80AB1 30mm gun and 2T5 anti tank missiles. I would upgrade on this with an AGS and an another variant of M-80 armed with a mix of malyutka with following variants:
    2T5(radio guided 5km range for long range sniping)
    9M14-2T (tandem warhead improved penetration)
    9M14-2F (thermobaric warhead)
    this would give theM a multi purpose missile carrier the malyutka still (in upgraded form) a fairly decent ATGW it's cheap  (probably the cheapest) and they have the means to produce it. Serbia should spend money on upgrading current equipment that still is useful rather than one off prototypes that they will never buy. They have many vehicles in storage mainly M-80, M-84, T-55, BTR-60, BTR-50. M-84 could be upgraded and there's no reason why Serbia couldn't make their own TOS or BMPT (using upgraded malyutka) using M-84 or T-55 chassis.
    M-80 could also be upgraded or used ATGW.
    BTR-60 as command or ATGW or Air defence with strelets or zu-23-2ZOM type upgrade and as for
    BTR-50 they showcased a turret version with 20 or 30 mm gun and malyutka although i think this vehicles armour is took week to be a good AFV but i rather think it would be more suited as a mortar carrier with it roof opening doors a 120mm mortar or an 82mm automatic mortar would be ideal. these dont have to be expensive upgrades and nothing outwith there technology know how. This would allow them to field a capable ground  force.
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    littlerabbit

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    Re: Serbian Armed Forces

    Post  littlerabbit on Mon Apr 09, 2018 9:04 pm

    d_taddei2 wrote:
    Militarov wrote:
    littlerabbit wrote:Looks like we will have some new acquisitions in our AF...4 new Mi-17's and 4 new Mi-35's and some stuff for the Army. Smile

    http://tass.com/defense/997538

    Obtaining T-72s while we have dozens of M-84s that can be overhauled and placed back in service, and are younger than those T-72s... and obtaining BMP-2s while we have dozens of M-80s that also can be overhauled and modernised. Sounds like logistic nightmare, even worse than one we already had.


    I quite agree. The T-72 in service could be upgraded and the M-84 also could be upgraded they have the skills to do it. T-72 with help from Russia or Belarus  could be upgraded. I believe that the T-72 their getting were gifted or bought at token price. The
    M-80 could easily be upgraded similar to berezhok. They already have M-80AB1 30mm gun and 2T5 anti tank missiles. I would upgrade on this with an AGS and an another variant of M-80 armed with a mix of malyutka with following variants:
    2T5(radio guided 5km range for long range sniping)
    9M14-2T (tandem warhead improved penetration)
    9M14-2F (thermobaric warhead)
    this would give theM a multi purpose missile carrier the malyutka still (in upgraded form) a fairly decent ATGW it's cheap  (probably the cheapest) and they have the means to produce it. Serbia should spend money on upgrading current equipment that still is useful rather than one off prototypes that they will never buy. They have many vehicles in storage mainly M-80, M-84, T-55, BTR-60, BTR-50. M-84 could be upgraded and there's no reason why Serbia couldn't make their own TOS or BMPT (using upgraded malyutka) using M-84 or T-55 chassis.
    M-80 could also be upgraded or used ATGW.
    BTR-60 as command or ATGW or Air defence with strelets or zu-23-2ZOM type upgrade and as for
    BTR-50 they showcased a turret version with 20 or 30 mm gun and malyutka although i think this vehicles armour is took week to be a good AFV but i rather think it would be more suited as a mortar carrier with it roof opening doors a 120mm mortar or an 82mm automatic mortar would be ideal. these dont have to be expensive upgrades and nothing outwith there technology know how. This would allow them to field a capable ground  force.

    I agree, but...although we have in reserve 200 of M-80's, it is questionable in what condition are they, after almost 2 decades of total negligence. Maybe our military HQ thinks it will be needed a lot of money per unit to get them operational, so they decided to get 30 or 60 BMP-2's, cos it's cheaper. unshaven
    Making BMPT's out of T-55A's is great idea, they can even make some of them into something like Israeli Achzarit, but who knows what they have in their minds. Above all, I'm not sure they know what are they doing, honestly. Neutral
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    0nillie0

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    Some questions and further info on the BVP M-80A armored fighting vehicle

    Post  0nillie0 on Mon Apr 16, 2018 3:18 pm

    Hi all. I have been doing some basic research on the BVP M-80A afv, which was in service with the Yugoslav Ground Forces, and today is still being used by some armies, most notably Serbia.
    Most of the basic info regarding the BVP M-80A can be found online, but i hope that maybe somebody here has some experience or knoweldge on the vehicle, and can shed some light on some of the questions :

    1. Armor protection
    Regarding the protection of the BVP M-80(A), various sources claim that they used alimunium in combination with titanium for the armor, as well as steel. But i can not seem to find much detail about which materials where used for what components. I would assume that the aluminium/titanium would be used for the chassis, while the armor itself would be steel, but perhaps i see it wrong? Also, how does its armor stack up against the BMP-1 in terms of protection of the crew compartment? Does it also feature improvements to the protection of driver / commander from mine blasts?

    2. Fuel
    Where are the fuel tanks located ? Did they use the same design as the BMP-1 and put additional fuel in to the rear doors? Is the main fuel tank located in between the 2 rows of seating in the crew compartment?

    3. Weapons
    The most commonly used variant BVP-M80A appears to be armed with a 20mm M-55 cannon, which AFAIK feeds from 60 rounds magazines. Later options include the 30mm Zastava guns, but i think i have read somewhere that these gun also have limited capacity of 40 rounds per belt due to the mechanism used. I assume that the dual feed variant has 80 rounds of ready to fire ammunition? Is the 30mmm variant adopted by Serbia or another nation, or do vehicles in actual service continue to use the old 20mm guns? The 30mm seems to be a rather powerfull cannon, which is also compact and simple to maintain/use, but the limitation of the belt length could be considered problematic?  

    4. FCS
    The BVP M-80 looks like it had some good sensors for the gunner. I can find only limited info about the components, but i am guessing the gunner had a combined day/night sight, using a passive image intensifier for night or adverse weather condition.Like in BMP-2, there is a second sight for engaging aerial targets at high elevation. Commander uses "traditional" passive/active infrared sights. Has the sights been upgraded on current vehicles? how is the gun stabilization ?

    Overall, i am quite impressed with this little machine. For its time it seems to be  a rather balanced solution with some nice features. I saw recently that Yugoimport is offering a non-amphibious modernised version with passive add-on armor, better FCS and improved one man turret. Is Serbia or Croatia interested in this upgrade?

    Thanks to whoever can answer some of these questions, or tell me a bit more about this machine.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Serbian Armed Forces

    Post  GarryB on Tue Apr 17, 2018 3:46 am

    For very light vehicles aluminium is commonly used because of the laws of physics.

    If you make a component in steel and then scale back the thickness to reduce weight you can get to the point where it is not structurally strong enough to do what it is supposed to do despite being the right weight.

    If you replace it with a lighter metal like Aluminium you can get rather more thickness for the same weight... and 5mm of steel compared with 20mm of Aluminium means the lighter metal is actually a better choice. note that neither will even stop small arms fire so in terms of protection it does not make any difference which you choose.


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    Militarov

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    Re: Serbian Armed Forces

    Post  Militarov on Sat Apr 21, 2018 12:25 am

    0nillie0 wrote:Hi all. I have been doing some basic research on the BVP M-80A afv, which was in service with the Yugoslav Ground Forces, and today is still being used by some armies, most notably Serbia.
    Most of the basic info regarding the BVP M-80A can be found online, but i hope that maybe somebody here has some experience or knoweldge on the vehicle, and can shed some light on some of the questions :

    1. Armor protection
    Regarding the protection of the BVP M-80(A), various sources claim that they used alimunium in combination with titanium for the armor, as well as steel. But i can not seem to find much detail about which materials where used for what components. I would assume that the aluminium/titanium would be used for the chassis, while the armor itself would be steel, but perhaps i see it wrong? Also, how does its armor stack up against the BMP-1 in terms of protection of the crew compartment? Does it also feature improvements to the protection of driver / commander from mine blasts?

    2. Fuel
    Where are the fuel tanks located ? Did they use the same design as the BMP-1 and put additional fuel in to the rear doors? Is the main fuel tank located in between the 2 rows of seating in the crew compartment?

    3. Weapons
    The most commonly used variant BVP-M80A appears to be armed with a 20mm M-55 cannon, which AFAIK feeds from 60 rounds magazines. Later options include the 30mm Zastava guns, but i think i have read somewhere that these gun also have limited capacity of 40 rounds per belt due to the mechanism used. I assume that the dual feed variant has 80 rounds of ready to fire ammunition? Is the 30mmm variant adopted by Serbia or another nation, or do vehicles in actual service continue to use the old 20mm guns? The 30mm seems to be a rather powerfull cannon, which is also compact and simple to maintain/use, but the limitation of the belt length could be considered problematic?  

    4. FCS
    The BVP M-80 looks like it had some good sensors for the gunner. I can find only limited info about the components, but i am guessing the gunner had a combined day/night sight, using a passive image intensifier for night or adverse weather condition.Like in BMP-2, there is a second sight for engaging aerial targets at high elevation. Commander uses "traditional" passive/active infrared sights. Has the sights been upgraded on current vehicles? how is the gun stabilization ?

    Overall, i am quite impressed with this little machine. For its time it seems to be  a rather balanced solution with some nice features. I saw recently that Yugoimport is offering a non-amphibious modernised version with passive add-on armor, better FCS and improved one man turret. Is Serbia or Croatia interested in this upgrade?

    Thanks to whoever can answer some of these questions, or tell me a bit more about this machine.

    I am SAM servicemen, so i wasnt in mechanised corps but i had the pleasure to break my neck twice in BVP-80 with the grunts so i will throw in some things.

    1. To my knowledge there is no titanium or aluminium used on BVP-80, tho i did read it more than once online, possibly written by keyboard warriors. My father says its made by welded rolled homogenus steel sheets that are in thickness of 9, 12 and 14mm. On later variants of it (never fiedled) wheels were to be replaced tho by aluminium casted ones, due to problems with steel ones. Armored protection itself is abit better than on BMP-1 on its sides, rest of the protection is more or less comparable to it.

    Even tho by the book it was supposed to be able and survive direct hits from 20mm shell from its front, it was more often than not penetrated by 12,7mm HMGs, from sides its protected aganist 8mm Mauser (7,9x57mm) FMJ. There is no additional armor liner or "double hull" under driver for mine protection.

    2. Fuel is in the middle, you actually kinda sit on the fuel tanks. Face-outwards as you are supposed to use gunports... gl with that one.

    3. Yes, 20mm cannon is used on all BVP-80s in service. While cannon itself is okay, feeding mechanism is problematic and it seems no gunner ever in its lifetime managed to fire whole belt without jamming. 30mm ammo while more effective would turn the turret into living Hell as there is actually more space in box of sardins.

    4. Gun doesnt have stabilisation hahaah Smile. Sorry, but that was so cute, you actually thought it had gyroscopic stabilisation Razz. There is/was actually variant which featured stabilisation but it was never fielded due to...well...breakup of Yugoslavia. Yes there is image intensifier PNS-1 and daylight sight DNS-1. There are also two periscopes, TPKU2B as daylight, and TKN-1 IC periscope which was very, very rarely used by the commander. And sights are the same as they were.

    Serbia is apparently interested in its modernisation (Croatia would rather throw them into the sea than do anything with Serbia) the variant that you saw. However its questionable how viable is that modernisation in general or how to put it: "Is it worth the trouble".
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    0nillie0

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    Re: Serbian Armed Forces

    Post  0nillie0 on Sat Apr 21, 2018 1:10 pm

    Thanks for the info !
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    Militarov

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    Re: Serbian Armed Forces

    Post  Militarov on Sat Apr 21, 2018 8:08 pm

    0nillie0 wrote:Thanks for the info !

    You welcome.

    http://www.srpskioklop.paluba.info/m80/opis.htm Some decent and fairly accurate data about it, just in Serbian. Try using google translate.
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    George1

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    Re: Serbian Armed Forces

    Post  George1 on Tue Apr 24, 2018 11:25 pm

    Celebrating the Day of the Armed Forces in Serbia





    Some interesting hardware











    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3172211.html


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