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    2S4 Tyulpan and 2S7 Pion

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    George1
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    Re: 2S4 Tyulpan and 2S7 Pion

    Post  George1 on Thu Dec 03, 2015 12:20 pm

    i thought that the logic was to replace old mobile artillery systems (2s1, 2s3, 2s7, 2s5) with 2s19 Msta and Coalition and in that way to reduce poly-type systems

    2s4 is a mobile mortar as 2s23 and 2s9 Nona (they could be replaces by Boomerang type mobile mortar version)


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    Re: 2S4 Tyulpan and 2S7 Pion

    Post  GarryB on Fri Dec 04, 2015 9:31 am

    It is all about use of available resources.

    These powerful mortars and heavy guns (240mm mortar and 203mm gun) are not actually going to be replaced in service directly.

    They are likely developing new ammo for these older weapons but they are not spending resources and money developing new models of land based 203mm and 240mm weapons AFAIK... which makes them relatively cheap because they have already been made... money already spent.

    To retire them would be to lose their unique capabilities, while keeping them in service in certain units that draw them from storage when needed and likely return them to storage when not needed makes those units much more powerful and flexible.

    Mortar and heavy gun versions of all the new vehicle families will be made, but likely of more modest calibre and more standard sizes... ie 120mm for mortars and 152mm for guns, though the low calibre will be compensated for by increased on board ammo capacity, rate of fire and accuracy and in the new weapons extended range and improvements in lethality with new types of specialised ammo.

    Of course sometimes there is no substitute for size and the 120kg rounds of the 240mm mortar and the 110kg rounds of the 203mm gun will be used... for the rest of the time they can be kept in storage ready for the next time they are needed.


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    Re: 2S4 Tyulpan and 2S7 Pion

    Post  Cyberspec on Fri Dec 04, 2015 10:11 pm

    I'm glad these pretty unique weapons are soldiering on...they should send some of the mortars to Syria...perfect for pulverising fortified positions

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    Re: 2S4 Tyulpan and 2S7 Pion

    Post  GarryB on Sat Dec 05, 2015 3:48 am

    i thought that the logic was to replace old mobile artillery systems (2s1, 2s3, 2s7, 2s5) with 2s19 Msta and Coalition and in that way to reduce poly-type systems

    In front line units these old weapons wont replace anything.

    The 2S1s will be converted into 2S34 Hostas... ie 120mm mortars.

    Of the remaining systems the 2S3 is being replaced by MSTA and Coalition... all 152mm weapons.

    The 2S5 had a long barrel and was used for specific missions at extended range... but now the Coalition performs that role with 70km range guided shells... the Coalition has a longer barrel too so I suspect using the same new ammo in the 2S5 wont lead to even greater range so it would make sense to retire the 2S5, or put it in reserve till all units get coalition... either tracked for heavy units or wheeled for lighter more mobile units.

    2S7 pion and 2S4 are being kept in reserve because nothing new would have their specific capabilities (ie 203mm or 240mm weapons).

    The new systems should be good for 90% of missions while for the rare cases heavy shells are needed then they are ready in reserve.

    2s4 is a mobile mortar as 2s23 and 2s9 Nona (they could be replaces by Boomerang type mobile mortar version)

    Would be more likely an armata heavy 240mm mortar replacement for 2S4, but I suspect more accurate longer ranged ammo and 120mm mortar rounds will suffice in vehicles from typhoon light wheeled vehicles, boomerang and kurganets medium vehicles (wheeled and tracked respectively) and armata 120mm heavy vehicles.

    Of course armata might have a heavier calibre... I suspect 152mm artillery will be too heavy for tyhoon weight vehicles and the wheeled truck based version should operate with boomerang units.

    So the mortar vehicles of armata units might have 240mm weapons or perhaps the 160mm mortars to allow more ammo to be carried. 110kg 240mm shells or 40kg 160mm shells would be devastating... but the latter would be similar on impact to a 40kg 152mm shell... a bit of duplication except for the fact that the mortar could drop them in much closer to the unit.

    Perhaps in the future a few Coalition vehicles could be modified to carry 240mm mortars with auto loading and 203mm guns also with autoloading for situations where the heavier shells are needed.


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    2S4 Tyulpan and 2S7 Pion

    Post  franco on Fri Sep 23, 2016 8:50 am

    Until the end of 2016 as part of one of the artillery units of the Southern Military District (Southern Military District), two self-propelled artillery battalion high power will be formed, - told reporters in the press service of the district.

    One division will be equipped with 240-mm self-propelled mortar "Tulip", the second division arm 203-mm self-propelled artillery systems "Malka". artillery units will be managed using the upgraded commanding control cars, the composition of which, together with optical reconnaissance devices include electronic devices topographic binding on the basis of a global positioning system "GLONASS".



    NOTE: this will make the 3rd District to create such units. The Eastern did so last year and the Western had the last two heavy artillery units left in the Russian Army prior to that.

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    Re: 2S4 Tyulpan and 2S7 Pion

    Post  GarryB on Fri Sep 23, 2016 11:28 am

    They said the 203mm and 240mm heavy weapons would remain in reserve but it is nice to hear they will be deployed to actual units...


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    Re: 2S4 Tyulpan and 2S7 Pion

    Post  Benya on Fri Sep 23, 2016 4:19 pm

    franco wrote:Until the end of 2016 as part of one of the artillery units of the Southern Military District (Southern Military District), two self-propelled artillery battalion high power will be formed, - told reporters in the press service of the district.

    One division will be equipped with 240-mm self-propelled mortar "Tulip", the second division arm 203-mm self-propelled artillery systems "Malka". artillery units will be managed using the upgraded commanding control cars, the composition of which, together with optical reconnaissance devices include electronic devices topographic binding on the basis of a global positioning system "GLONASS".



    NOTE: this will make the 3rd District to create such units. The Eastern did so last year and the Western had the last two heavy artillery units left in the Russian Army prior to that.

    Great thumbsup . Do you know the name/number of these Pion/Tyulpan units in the Eastern Military District?

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    Re: 2S4 Tyulpan and 2S7 Pion

    Post  franco on Sat Sep 24, 2016 1:22 am

    Benya wrote:
    franco wrote:Until the end of 2016 as part of one of the artillery units of the Southern Military District (Southern Military District), two self-propelled artillery battalion high power will be formed, - told reporters in the press service of the district.

    One division will be equipped with 240-mm self-propelled mortar "Tulip", the second division arm 203-mm self-propelled artillery systems "Malka". artillery units will be managed using the upgraded commanding control cars, the composition of which, together with optical reconnaissance devices include electronic devices topographic binding on the basis of a global positioning system "GLONASS".



    NOTE: this will make the 3rd District to create such units. The Eastern did so last year and the Western had the last two heavy artillery units left in the Russian Army prior to that.

    Great thumbsup . Do you know the name/number of these Pion/Tyulpan units in the Eastern Military District?

    Not yet.

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    Re: 2S4 Tyulpan and 2S7 Pion

    Post  franco on Thu Nov 24, 2016 2:23 am

    The new 2S4 battalion on maneuvers in the Far East;

    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2276306.html

    George1
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    Re: 2S4 Tyulpan and 2S7 Pion

    Post  George1 on Mon Dec 05, 2016 2:22 pm

    An artillery division in Russia's Far East practiced the deployment of self-propelled mortars 2S4 Tyulpan and struck a mock enemy avoiding the retaliatory strike.

    Read more: https://sputniknews.com/military/201612051048165731-russia-tyulpan-mortars/



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