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    Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich

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    hoom

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    Re: Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich

    Post  hoom on Sun Jan 07, 2018 10:43 am

    This from July appears to be the origin of the 9M100 rumor https://piter.tv/event/Rossiya_gotova_k_modernizacii_raketnih_kompleksov_Shtil_i_Shtil_1_/
    Its talking up the possibility of upgrades rather than saying they will do it.
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    George1

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    Re: Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich

    Post  George1 on Thu Mar 01, 2018 7:40 pm

    "Yantar" will complete for the Indian Navy two frigates of project 11356

    JSC "Baltic Shipyard Yantar" (PSZ, a member of the United Shipbuilding Corporation) will complete two frigates for the project 11356 for the Indian Navy, Interfax reports with reference to the representative of the enterprise.



       "The plant has information that in the framework of military-technical cooperation with India, a basic decision has been reached that two frigates 11356 will be fully completed for this country in Kaliningrad. For this purpose, the missile defense corps, which was built for the Black Sea Fleet, will be used. We are talking about the Admiral Butakov and Admiral Istomin, which are in different degrees of readiness, "the representative of the plant said.

       According to him, the ships for the Indian Navy will be supplied with gas turbine engines that are produced in Ukraine and not supplied to Russia for installation on the "Admiral Series" due to the annexation of the Crimea. There is information that India has already paid to the Ukrainian side the supply of engines to its future ships.

       Another under construction, but conserved TFR "Admiral Kornilov" will have to be completed at one of the enterprises of India. Currently, the issue of its delivery to the site of construction and the degree of technological participation of the parties in this project is being decided.

       The Yantar shipyard, under two contracts with the RF Ministry of Defense, was to build six frigates of Project 11356 for the Black Sea Fleet. Three of them were built and handed over to the fleet, three more corps are in different stages of construction.

       Due to the lack of power plants for them, their construction was officially frozen, the question of their completion in the interests of the Indian Navy was under consideration.

       In February 2017, Deputy Director of the FSMTC of Russia Vladimir Drozhzhov told Interfax that "in October 2016 an intergovernmental agreement was signed on the construction of ships of Project 11356 in Russia and India. In accordance with the agreement, it is planned to build two frigates in Russia and two in Indian shipyards for ships that will be built in Russia, it is proposed to use the shells of frigates 11356, previously built for the Black Sea Fleet.

       In July 2017, a delegation of the Indian shipbuilding company Goa Shipyard visited the Yantar shipyard, which discussed the prospects for cooperation in the construction of warships.


    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3108408.html


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    George1

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    Re: Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich

    Post  George1 on Thu Mar 01, 2018 7:44 pm

    So last 3 frigates go to Indian Navy

    Admiral Butakov, Admiral Istomin will be built in Yantar

    And Admiral Kornilov in India


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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich

    Post  PapaDragon on Thu Mar 01, 2018 8:21 pm

    George1 wrote:So last 3 frigates go to Indian Navy

    Admiral Butakov, Admiral Istomin will be built in Yantar

    And Admiral Kornilov in India

    That would be another 3 surface vessels less for Russian Navy No

    And here we have clowns shitting on Derzkii corvettes and ranting about nuclear destroyers and supercarriers when Navy can barely get their hands on couple of frigates Suspect
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    medo

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    Re: Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich

    Post  medo on Thu Mar 01, 2018 9:03 pm

    Yantar have contract for 6 11356 frigates for Black Sea fleet. If they will sell those 3 unfinnished frigates to india, than they will soon have to start building another 3 frigated for Black Sea fleet equipped with Russian engines. New Russian engines will be soon produced, so they will have very quickly to start building new frigates to fulfill their contract and build them very quickly. For Yantar it will be better to start building new frigates for India and finnish those 3 for Black Sea fleet as they are already too late with their contract delivery time.
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    Kimppis

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    Re: Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich

    Post  Kimppis on Thu Mar 01, 2018 10:05 pm

    So they will sell those 3 to India after all? So much for hoping that wasn't the case. WTF are they doing? Or maybe I misunderstood? 4 Gorshkovs and 3 Grigoroviches by 2025?

    That's... amazing. And not in a good way.

    Medo: I'm sure those contracts matter as much as the Naval Doctrine from 2015...
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich

    Post  PapaDragon on Thu Mar 01, 2018 10:36 pm

    Kimppis wrote:So they will sell those 3 to India after all? So much for hoping that wasn't the case. WTF are they doing? Or maybe I misunderstood? 4 Gorshkovs and 3 Grigoroviches by 2025?.............


    As of now it's 4 Gorshkovs and no Grigireviches by 2025
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    Kimppis

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    Re: Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich

    Post  Kimppis on Fri Mar 02, 2018 12:34 am

    Yes, I meant in total.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich

    Post  GarryB on Fri Mar 02, 2018 6:29 am

    Clearing out three ships that were taking too long otherwise is a good thing... they need to eliminate Ukrainian components from their navy and introducing three new ships with Ukrainian engines is not the way to do it.

    If someone else wants to buy them then take their money and use the extra money on something else.


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    hoom

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    Re: Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich

    Post  hoom on Fri Mar 02, 2018 8:18 am

    Oh goodie another round of will they or won't they cheers

    At this point I don't believe anything until they make a proper official formal announcement.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich

    Post  GarryB on Sat Mar 03, 2018 7:09 am

    Lets face it, these are new build ships but at the end of the day these are Krivak IVs... and are not the new modular designs they have been working on.

    In the same sense if they had some kilos that have been delayed because they need some important parts from the Ukraine and are waiting for the same parts to be Russian made and someone else wanted them why not sell them and use the money and freed up slipway space to make some Ladas or Kalinas.... new designs hopefully devoid out Ukrainian components... strings...

    the real reason they bought them was because they should have been in service by now... they were the quick fix... if they can't get the engines until 2019 or 2020 then they might as well forgo the quick fix and spend money on the better product that will also take longer...


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    littlerabbit

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    Re: Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich

    Post  littlerabbit on Sat Mar 03, 2018 6:48 pm

    GarryB wrote:Lets face it, these are new build ships but at the end of the day these are Krivak IVs... and are not the new modular designs they have been working on.

    In the same sense if they had some kilos that have been delayed because they need some important parts from the Ukraine and are waiting for the same parts to be Russian made and someone else wanted them why not sell them and use the money and freed up slipway space to make some Ladas or Kalinas.... new designs hopefully devoid out Ukrainian components... strings...

    the real reason they bought them was because they should have been in service by now... they were the quick fix... if they can't get the engines until 2019 or 2020 then they might as well forgo the quick fix and spend money on the better product that will also take longer...

    Maybe they should sell those planned 3 Grigorovichs to India and build another 5 Gorshkovs for Black sea fleet...and those 3 already built send to Baltic fleet, when these 5 come...? Question Wink
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    Isos

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    Re: Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich

    Post  Isos on Sat Mar 03, 2018 9:07 pm

    Lot of countries could be interested by those frigates actually. Egypt, Iran, Saoudi arabia, Algeria, asian countries ...
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    KomissarBojanchev

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    Re: Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich

    Post  KomissarBojanchev on Sun Mar 04, 2018 2:59 am

    Even if this is an official announcement, it reeks of bullshit. Yantar says that they'll sell these to India because there are no powerplants, but this is in direct contradiction with the earlier statement by Saturn that their GTs for the grigoroviches are ready for production. Unless yantar knows something that we dont know about some massive fuckup made by saturn, I believe this news is dogshit. Bmpd's quality has gone down IMO.
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    KomissarBojanchev

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    Re: Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich

    Post  KomissarBojanchev on Sun Mar 04, 2018 3:00 am

    Isos wrote:Lot of countries could be interested by those frigates actually. Egypt, Iran, Saoudi arabia, Algeria, asian countries ...
    But Russia needs them the most...
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    GarryB

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    Re: Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich

    Post  GarryB on Sun Mar 04, 2018 5:58 am

    I would expect that these vessels so far have been built to Russian Navy spec rather than export spec, so if they do sell them to India they will need quite a bit of alteration before they can be sold...


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    hoom

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    Re: Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich

    Post  hoom on Mon Mar 05, 2018 1:38 pm

    They're mostly bare hull still so it would probably be a question of obtaining/downgrading to export gear before the fitout, can't imagine there would be a huge structural difference between domestic & export.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich

    Post  GarryB on Tue Mar 06, 2018 7:32 am

    I agree, it probably wont be a huge job... possibly foreign components to be fitted will be left off and fitted when it gets to India...


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    hoom

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    Re: Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich

    Post  hoom on Tue Mar 06, 2018 8:37 am

    I think the main question is whether they would sell VLS Shtil or revert to the arm launcher as on the first 6 Talwars.
    I feel with India buying Israeli (& French?) VLS for other ships Russia will probably be willing to go with the VLS now.
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    KomissarBojanchev

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    Re: Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich

    Post  KomissarBojanchev on Tue Mar 06, 2018 9:59 am

    I repeat once again: why, if the saturn gas turbines are ready, would yantar decide to sell the 3 frigates?

    hoom

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    Re: Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich

    Post  hoom on Tue Mar 06, 2018 11:50 am

    Beats me dunno

    I would rather they complete the series ASAP & think there is a good argument for expediting a 2nd series of 6 too given the ongoing lack of Gorshkovs, likely very long lead time for 20386es.
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    SeigSoloyvov

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    Re: Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich

    Post  SeigSoloyvov on Tue Mar 06, 2018 1:22 pm

    KomissarBojanchev wrote:I repeat once again: why, if the saturn gas turbines are ready, would yantar decide to sell the 3 frigates?

    Only possible excuse is IF this is true.

    Is that they are producing the engines so slow, they would not have any engines ready for years which shocker Russian naval industry shows it's incompetence once more if that turns out to be true

    It simply makes no sense if they have engines ready or can make them they would sell the hulls rather then complete them.
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    Rodion_Romanovic

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    Re: Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich

    Post  Rodion_Romanovic on Tue Mar 06, 2018 1:37 pm

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:
    KomissarBojanchev wrote:I repeat once again: why, if the saturn gas turbines are ready, would yantar decide to sell the 3 frigates?

    Only possible excuse is IF this is true.

    Is that they are producing the engines so slow, they would not have any engines ready for years which shocker Russian naval industry shows it's incompetence once more if that turns out to be true

    It simply makes no sense if they have engines ready or can make them they would sell the hulls rather then complete them.

    Well, Saturn is not producing the same powerplant that was in.the grigorovich (2 DS-71 cruise gas turbines 8,450 shp (6,300 kW) and 2 DT-59 boost gas turbines 22,000 shp (16 MW each) rather the new one that is to be fitted on the Gorshov frigate
    M90FR FRU 20 MW (max 25 28) (Saturn is also producing M70FRU 14 MW , M70FRU2 6 8 MW)

    . It is possible.that adapting that powerplant to the grigorovic would require serious hull work. In that case it would be maybe ok do a mod for new frigates and adapt them to the gorshov engine, but would not be worth for the hulls that are already in advanced stage of completion.
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    Isos

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    Re: Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich

    Post  Isos on Tue Mar 06, 2018 2:43 pm

    KomissarBojanchev wrote:I repeat once again: why, if the saturn gas turbines are ready, would yantar decide to sell the 3 frigates?

    Actually it depend on how gorshkov program goes. Grigorovich were made only for export in their version for india. When they saw that gorshkov were harder to build than expected they ordered some grigorovich.

    With the engine issue grigorovich program is as slow as gorshkov one.

    If they are sure to build more gorshkov quickly they will sell these frigates to buy gorshkovs. That was the original plan.
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    SeigSoloyvov

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    Re: Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich

    Post  SeigSoloyvov on Tue Mar 06, 2018 3:10 pm

    Isos wrote:
    KomissarBojanchev wrote:I repeat once again: why, if the saturn gas turbines are ready, would yantar decide to sell the 3 frigates?

    Actually it depend on how gorshkov program goes. Grigorovich were made only for export in their version for india. When they saw that gorshkov were harder to build than expected they ordered some grigorovich.

    With the engine issue grigorovich program is  as slow as gorshkov one.

    If they are sure to build more gorshkov quickly they will sell these frigates to buy gorshkovs. That was the original plan.

    Except they have shown to be completely incapable of building Gorsh in any reasonable timeline.

    So this theory makes no sense what so ever and isn't supported by any facts

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