Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues


    Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich

    Share

    GunshipDemocracy
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 1516
    Points : 1558
    Join date : 2015-05-17
    Location : Stalin´s Strait between Mexico and Canada

    Re: Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Fri Jul 22, 2016 8:50 pm

    jhelb wrote: I am concerned because several Russian ships uses Ukranian engines and they are not known for performing well in warm water. So, in your assessment is their a possibility that Russian destroyers,frigates, cruisers will face similar issues if they venture into warm water?

    also Indian Talwar class and Vietnamese Gepard class frigates, so they perform bad? may I kindly ask about source? BTW engines were Ukrainian not Soviet design?

    runaway
    Master Sergeant
    Master Sergeant

    Posts : 351
    Points : 372
    Join date : 2010-11-12
    Location : Sweden

    Re: Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich

    Post  runaway on Sun Jul 24, 2016 9:32 pm

    According to several websites the last 3 grigorovich frigates are to be sold, preffereble to india as russia wont have engines for it.
    Is it the end for grigorovich, and russia will only build Gorshkovs as frigates?
    That would leave BSF with only 3 modern frigates for a long time. Although they will beef up with corvettes i think.


    SeigSoloyvov
    Senior Sergeant
    Senior Sergeant

    Posts : 209
    Points : 211
    Join date : 2016-04-08

    Re: Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich

    Post  SeigSoloyvov on Sun Jul 24, 2016 9:53 pm

    runaway wrote:According to several websites the last 3 grigorovich frigates are to be sold, preffereble to india as russia wont have engines for it.
    Is it the end for grigorovich, and russia will only build Gorshkovs as frigates?
    That would leave BSF with only 3 modern frigates for a long time. Although they will beef up with corvettes i think.


    I have seen no official news of this, Just them saying they could.

    Russia will have the engines soon it makes zero sense to sell off the hulls if the engines are a year away just to make new hulls.

    The Navy claims it will have operational engines by 2016-17 after the government got involved with the company to force the matter.

    PapaDragon
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 3667
    Points : 3779
    Join date : 2015-04-26
    Location : Fort Evil, Serbia

    Re: Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich

    Post  PapaDragon on Sun Jul 24, 2016 11:05 pm

    runaway wrote:According to several websites the last 3 grigorovich frigates are to be sold, preffereble to india as russia wont have engines for it.
    Is it the end for grigorovich, and russia will only build Gorshkovs as frigates?
    That would leave BSF with only 3 modern frigates for a long time. Although they will beef up with corvettes i think.


    Old rumors. Those last three Grigorevich ships will built and wait until engines become available. Once installed they will be going to BSF. After that they are switching to Gorshkovs.

    We were posting about that here somewhere several months ago.

    hoom
    Senior Sergeant
    Senior Sergeant

    Posts : 233
    Points : 235
    Join date : 2016-05-06

    Re: Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich

    Post  hoom on Mon Jul 25, 2016 2:31 am

    If anything I expect the ongoing issues with Gorshkov (also pending domestic engines) are likely to result in more Grigorovich orders. (at least if the engines do arrive in good time)

    hoom
    Senior Sergeant
    Senior Sergeant

    Posts : 233
    Points : 235
    Join date : 2016-05-06

    Re: Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich

    Post  hoom on Mon Jul 25, 2016 5:04 am

    Grigorovich is in Novorossyk, hangin out with Mikhail Kutuzov http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2033512.html



    Regarding the ball above the AK-630s this is a good shot

    I think it is an EO ball with the lenses facing down (for protection?).
    Something very similar to the ball on this which Dima posted previously

    PapaDragon
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 3667
    Points : 3779
    Join date : 2015-04-26
    Location : Fort Evil, Serbia

    Re: Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich

    Post  PapaDragon on Mon Jul 25, 2016 3:49 pm

    hoom wrote:If anything I expect the ongoing issues with Gorshkov (also pending domestic engines) are likely to result in more Grigorovich orders. (at least if the engines do arrive in good time)

    Engines aside only remaining problem Gorshkov has is with new Redut AA missiles.

    Even in hypothetical worst case scenario where missiles never work (extremely unlikely) they can just load standard missiles and be good to go.

    Both UKSK and Redut launchers are standardized so missiles can be swapped easily.

    There will be no more Grigorovich frigates after these six, at least not for Russian Navy.

    hoom
    Senior Sergeant
    Senior Sergeant

    Posts : 233
    Points : 235
    Join date : 2016-05-06

    Re: Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich

    Post  hoom on Mon Jul 25, 2016 4:45 pm

    The only problem with my Lamborghini is that I don't have a Lamborghini Suspect

    PapaDragon
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 3667
    Points : 3779
    Join date : 2015-04-26
    Location : Fort Evil, Serbia

    Re: Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich

    Post  PapaDragon on Mon Jul 25, 2016 6:35 pm

    hoom wrote:The only problem with my Lamborghini is that I don't have a Lamborghini Suspect

    Lamborghini in question is being finalized so that comparison does not apply.

    hoom
    Senior Sergeant
    Senior Sergeant

    Posts : 233
    Points : 235
    Join date : 2016-05-06

    Re: Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich

    Post  hoom on Mon Jul 25, 2016 11:02 pm

    Lamborghini has been being worked on for 10 years & still isn't in my garage with no sign of appearing soon.

    sepheronx
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 7302
    Points : 7612
    Join date : 2009-08-06
    Age : 27
    Location : Canada

    Re: Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich

    Post  sepheronx on Mon Jul 25, 2016 11:24 pm

    hoom wrote:Lamborghini has been being worked on for 10 years & still isn't in my garage with no sign of appearing soon.

    Then you should just go away then and go buy a new house and garage and dont come back to this one.

    Your metaphor sucks.  Your opinion sucks, and frankly, your posting sucks too and I don't see the point of you being here then besides being an idiot troll.

    They are building engines, and fixing up a brand new air defense system that will out do what the competitors have.  So bugger off already, you are not proving anything other than being pretty much a mongloid.

    kvs
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 2507
    Points : 2640
    Join date : 2014-09-11
    Location : Canuckistan

    Re: Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich

    Post  kvs on Tue Jul 26, 2016 4:02 am

    hoom wrote:Lamborghini has been being worked on for 10 years & still isn't in my garage with no sign of appearing soon.

    The gas turbine replacements for ex-Soviet production in Ukraine are coming out in 2017. So don't worry your little head.

    hoom
    Senior Sergeant
    Senior Sergeant

    Posts : 233
    Points : 235
    Join date : 2016-05-06

    Re: Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich

    Post  hoom on Tue Jul 26, 2016 1:31 pm

    Your metaphor sucks.  Your opinion sucks, and frankly, your posting sucks too and I don't see the point of you being here then besides being an idiot troll.
    I think thats quite an excessive reaction.
    I'm no Russia hater, nor am I a Gorshkov hater & I apologise if my posts were taken as trolly negative.

    The reality of the situation is that

    1. Russia needs modern ships ASAP
    2. Gorshkov was already way late -> build 11356es and now its going to be even later again
    3. 11356 while not the greatest has been proven to be able to be built quickly
    4. after going to the effort of getting domestic production for 11356 engines up & running it seems like a waste to only build engines for 3 of them.


    Its a similar situation to the new Kilos: initially a series built pending Lada class, they got cranked out in good time & with new design still not ready a 2nd series of new Kilos is ordered (I think a 3rd hinted at?).
    Seems a situation ripe for at least another series of 11356.

    Honesroc
    Corporal
    Corporal

    Posts : 63
    Points : 65
    Join date : 2014-11-01

    Re: Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich

    Post  Honesroc on Tue Jul 26, 2016 3:10 pm

    hoom wrote:
    The reality of the situation is that

    1. Russia needs modern ships ASAP
    2. Gorshkov was already way late -> build 11356es and now its going to be even later again
    3. 11356 while not the greatest has been proven to be able to be built quickly
    4. after going to the effort of getting domestic production for 11356 engines up & running it seems like a waste to only build engines for 3 of them.


    I don't know that it's a waste of time.. wouldn't Project 11356 eventually need their engines replaced come mid-life refit? What about the export variant? I always take Russian media with a grain of salt, that said I have seen multiple sources hint that India would be interested in procuring more Tawlar-class vessels.

    Point being, I don't think we're looking at a "three and done" engine build.

    GarryB
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 15458
    Points : 16165
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich

    Post  GarryB on Wed Jul 27, 2016 11:19 am

    If you can't wait 10 years for a ferrari then perhaps you should buy a skoda.

    There is no great urgency for new ships in the Russian navy... they could have thousands of ships in service easily... just mass produce old models they already know how to build.

    Thing is that that fleet would need to be replaced very soon and would not have much value.

    What they are doing is building capable new modern ships and that takes time... if you don't have the patience then find another hobby.

    If there was a 3 year waiting list for a new Ferrari and all of a sudden the makers of the engine suddenly said they would not supply engines and Ferrari had to find new engines and integrate them into the new design but it would take 5 years I am sure many on the waiting list might change their mind and buy a Lada or a Skoda intead... NOT.


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order

    PapaDragon
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 3667
    Points : 3779
    Join date : 2015-04-26
    Location : Fort Evil, Serbia

    Re: Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich

    Post  PapaDragon on Wed Jul 27, 2016 3:12 pm

    hoom wrote:[.....

    The reality of the situation is that

    1. Russia needs modern ships ASAP
    2. Gorshkov was already way late -> build 11356es and now its going to be even later again
    3. 11356 while not the greatest has been proven to be able to be built quickly
    4. after going to the effort of getting domestic production for 11356 engines up & running it seems like a waste to only build engines for 3 of them.


    ..........
    -Gorshkov is modern ship. Grigorovich is not. Good enough against Turks but that is it.

    - Only reason lead Gorshkov is not already in service is problem with AA missiles. Had they loaded old ones ship would have been in service already. Speaking of which, what kind of missiles are those? I thought they used standard redut missiles.

    - 11356 also had problem with construction time back when they started to build them for India. You can't use old stuff forever.

    - They will need lot more than 3 engines. Grigorevich will need several replacements over lifetime and there is always possibility certainty of catastrophic malfunction (remember some of those engines are manufactured in Ukraine and they are ticking time bombs, just look at corvette clusterfuck in Baltic fleet). They also need them for several export products and other classes of ships in use.

    GarryB
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 15458
    Points : 16165
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich

    Post  GarryB on Thu Jul 28, 2016 11:42 am

    - Only reason lead Gorshkov is not already in service is problem with AA missiles. Had they loaded old ones ship would have been in service already. Speaking of which, what kind of missiles are those? I thought they used standard redut missiles.

    A recent list I have seen mentions 9M96, 9M96D and 9M100.

    9M96 is the smallest S-400 missile with a range of 40-60km, while the 9M96D is the slightly larger small missile with a range of 120-150km. The 9M100 is Morfei close range IIR guided lock on after launch missile... which might be the one they are having problems with...


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order

    franco
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 1732
    Points : 1772
    Join date : 2010-08-18

    Re: Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich

    Post  franco on Fri Jul 29, 2016 10:08 pm

    MOSCOW, July 29 -. RIA Novosti The fate of the second triple frigates of Project 11356, destined for the Black Sea Fleet is not solved yet, "Rosoboronexport" talks about their delivery abroad, told RIA Novosti on Friday, Vice-President of the United Shipbuilding Corporation (USC) on military shipbuilding Igor Ponomarev.

    Previously, "Rosoboronexport", said that India is negotiating the purchase of an additional party and subsequently licensed production frigates of Project 11356 India already has six frigates type Talwar - precursors of the project 11356, designed for export. Indian ships entered service in 2003-2004 and 2012-2013.

    "Ships of the second trio built at the Baltic Shipyard" Yantar "in accordance with the SDO decision on the transfer of these vessels to third countries is not fully accepted Although it is known that such negotiations are conducted.." Rosoboronexport ", - said Ponomarev.

    In total, according to the plans of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation, to 2020 for the Black Sea fleet had to do six frigates of Project 11356, but in connection with Ukraine's refusal to supply gas turbine engine construction of the second trio of ships was suspended.


    NOTE: different tale then a couple of weeks back.

    sepheronx
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 7302
    Points : 7612
    Join date : 2009-08-06
    Age : 27
    Location : Canada

    Re: Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich

    Post  sepheronx on Fri Jul 29, 2016 10:14 pm

    This is getting ridiculous. Either stick with one narritive or the other. If they opt out of them, then get rid of them or simply just wait till the engines are completed. Unless they are thinking they wont be getting any engines anytime soon.

    Then again, Rosoboronexport might be looking to make a buck. This isn't their decision of course.

    PapaDragon
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 3667
    Points : 3779
    Join date : 2015-04-26
    Location : Fort Evil, Serbia

    Re: Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich

    Post  PapaDragon on Sat Jul 30, 2016 2:17 am

    sepheronx wrote:This is getting ridiculous.  Either stick with one narritive or the other.  If they opt out of them, then get rid of them or simply just wait till the engines are completed.  Unless they are thinking they wont be getting any engines anytime soon.

    Then again, Rosoboronexport might be looking to make a buck.  This isn't their decision of course.

    This crap again?

    Hopefully they will never find a buyer.

    SeigSoloyvov
    Senior Sergeant
    Senior Sergeant

    Posts : 209
    Points : 211
    Join date : 2016-04-08

    Re: Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich

    Post  SeigSoloyvov on Sat Jul 30, 2016 3:04 am

    PapaDragon wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:This is getting ridiculous.  Either stick with one narritive or the other.  If they opt out of them, then get rid of them or simply just wait till the engines are completed.  Unless they are thinking they wont be getting any engines anytime soon.

    Then again, Rosoboronexport might be looking to make a buck.  This isn't their decision of course.

    This crap again?

    Hopefully they will never find a buyer.

    Even if they do, they cannot sell the ships without permission from the government.

    George1
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 9423
    Points : 9915
    Join date : 2011-12-22
    Location : Greece

    Re: Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich

    Post  George1 on Sat Jul 30, 2016 1:19 pm

    Frigate "Admiral Makarov" came to the Baltic Sea for factory sea trials.

    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2044236.html


    Last edited by George1 on Sun Jul 31, 2016 12:20 pm; edited 1 time in total


    _________________
    "There's no smoke without fire.", Georgy Zhukov


    Svyatoslavich
    Senior Sergeant
    Senior Sergeant

    Posts : 252
    Points : 263
    Join date : 2015-04-22
    Location : Buenos Aires

    Re: Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich

    Post  Svyatoslavich on Sat Jul 30, 2016 5:07 pm

    George1 wrote:Frigate "Admiral Makarov" came to the Baltic Sea φορ factory sea trials.

    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2044236.html
    Seems someone forgot to change the character setting back to Latin.

    hoom
    Senior Sergeant
    Senior Sergeant

    Posts : 233
    Points : 235
    Join date : 2016-05-06

    Re: Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich

    Post  hoom on Wed Aug 03, 2016 4:26 pm

    Essen passing close in St Petersburg canal

    Honesroc
    Corporal
    Corporal

    Posts : 63
    Points : 65
    Join date : 2014-11-01

    Re: Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich

    Post  Honesroc on Thu Aug 04, 2016 8:04 pm

    Report: India to Buy 3 Russian Admiral Grigorovich Frigates

    https://news.usni.org/2016/08/04/report-india-buy-3-russian-admiral-grigorovich-frigates

    Sponsored content

    Re: Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich

    Post  Sponsored content Today at 11:10 am


      Current date/time is Sun Dec 04, 2016 11:10 am