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    Russian Pilot Training

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    Vladimir79
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    Russian Air Force will be left without trainers

    Post  Vladimir79 on Fri Sep 30, 2011 12:54 pm

    Russian Air Force will be left without trainers L-39

    Jets fail due to lack of spare parts. Two-thirds of them can no longer fly


    Trainer aircraft L-39, which now amount based fleet of training aircraft the Air Force of Russia, the vast majority will fail in the next 4-5 years, found "Izvestia".

    This aircraft was made in Czechoslovakia fell under the program of modernization and gradually "washed out" units of study due to physical aging and lack of spare parts, according to "Izvestia" a source in the Defense Ministry.

    - For L-39 did not take a radical upgrade, so how did the Yak-130. But today a contract for the Yak-130 crashed due to clashes between the MOD and the United Aircraft Corporation (UAC) on the price of the machine, and the timing of large-scale deliveries of the aircraft is constantly shifting. A L-39 are written off in the meantime - the resource of these machines is actively consumed in training flights, and replacing them is not - the spokesman said the newspaper.

    The problem of the L-39 is linked to its origin. Czechoslovak machine with Ukrainian engine was developed in the 1960s as the primary training aircraft for the Air Force of the Warsaw Treaty Organization (WTO). After the collapse of the Warsaw Pact, and later the Soviet Union, supplies of spare parts for these machines practically ceased.

    For a long time supported the Russian Air Force fleet of L-39 by disassembling the parts of aircraft, retired to the storage, but this source is eternal, and it gradually dried up. Formally, in the Air Force today has about 300 L-39, but can rise into the air, according to some reports, no more than a third of these machines, most of them "go away" in the coming years.

    Needs in today's Air Force trainer aircraft is approximately 120 cars, but today the Russian Air Force has only 10 machines Yak-130. As you know, a contract to supply 65 aircraft of this type before 2015, which was to be signed at the MAKS-2011 in August, and has not been signed - the Defense Ministry and the KLA could not agree on price.


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    GarryB
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    Re: Russian Pilot Training

    Post  GarryB on Fri Sep 30, 2011 1:53 pm

    Well the Air Force is between a rock and a hard place.

    I would have thought that a large bulk order would be the best way to bargain with price... order 500 Yak-130s in blocks over a long term... say to 2020.

    This should allow UAC to plan and manage production and get the loans and support they need to build the planes.

    Vladimir79
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    Re: Russian Pilot Training

    Post  Vladimir79 on Fri Sep 30, 2011 1:56 pm

    With the reductions in size of the VVS, we do not need nor can afford 500. 120 is the number. This plane should not cost more than $15 million.

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    Re: Russian Pilot Training

    Post  GarryB on Fri Sep 30, 2011 5:54 pm

    If they only want another 110 then it probably would have made much more economic sense to buy the L-159s and get a licence to produce spares and engines.

    Vladimir79
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    Re: Russian Pilot Training

    Post  Vladimir79 on Sat Oct 01, 2011 2:32 am

    It makes more industrial sense to produce an AJT here and one we can export. If timelines had been kept, this wouldn't be an issue. Failure of Irkut to keep prices down has left us in this morass.

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    Re: Russian Pilot Training

    Post  Pervius on Sat Oct 01, 2011 5:23 am

    It makes more economical sense to use Ultra Light aircraft for trainers to keep flying hours on pilots.

    Keep the expensive Jet Fighters in hangars fully maintained/serviced with money saved ready to be launched when needed.


    All world countries are realizing crude oil isn't going to last forever, nor are there unlimited supplies.


    A cheapo $20,000 ultra light plane, which is just a powered hang glider...can still have its pilot use modern helmets and a small targeting pod to use laser target marking...and communications training.


    Plus you can disassemble the ultra light and throw it in the back of a pickup and launch it anywheres. To get pilots 'stick time'. Airfield landing/ departure training. Joint Ops with ground Teams...

    Cheap.

    GarryB
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    Re: Russian Pilot Training

    Post  GarryB on Sat Oct 01, 2011 6:24 am

    They already use primary training aircraft, but there is only so much training you can do in a single engined prop driven aircraft.

    With the Yak-130 they are learning not only to manage a jet aircraft, but a twin engined jet aircraft. With the greater electronic capability of the Yak they can simulate weapons delivery without expending real weapons which saves a lot of money too.

    In fact with a payload of 3 tons in lots of ways it could be a cheaper replacement for all those Mig-29s sitting in storage and all those Mig-21s and Mig-27s and Su-17s that were withdrawn for being single engined.

    With a modern radar in its nose it has the potential to be a very useful little light fighter bomber.

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    Yearly flight hours, 2011, official numbers.

    Post  TR1 on Thu Mar 22, 2012 1:55 am

    http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?...postcount=4803

    Wow, hell of a find. Official document, in Zelin's name, regarding flight hours in 2011! As we can see, the yearly creep continues.

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    Re: Russian Pilot Training

    Post  GarryB on Thu Mar 22, 2012 7:02 am

    Invalid Post specified. If you followed a valid link, please notify the administrator

    TR1
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    Re: Russian Pilot Training

    Post  TR1 on Thu Mar 22, 2012 8:17 am

    Weird:

    http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=1422117&postcount=4803

    Does this work?

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    Re: Russian Pilot Training

    Post  GarryB on Thu Mar 22, 2012 8:45 am

    Yes,

    Thanks... will start looking through it now... Very Happy

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    Re: Russian Pilot Training

    Post  GarryB on Thu Mar 22, 2012 8:58 am

    Interesting.

    I suspect the flight hour variations reflect the range of the aircraft and how much it is needed for use.

    The Tu-95s range means it will likely have fewer actual sorties, but over much greater distances.

    The An-2 will be busy all over Siberia delivering supplies and post and people to small outposts, while the An-124s will have fewer actual flights but over larger distances.

    Interesting that the Mi-28s flight hours are higher than for the Ka-50/52 and the other naval Kamovs.

    Could you translate the word after the Mi-8 with 120 hours please?

    I suspect that it along with the Mi-24 don't get night flying practise, which would be incorporated into the hours of the Mi-28.

    Interesting.

    Would be even more interesting to see such figures from previous years (ie actual figures rather than estimates).

    Does it say whether these are achieved figures or planned figures for 2011?

    Or are they projections for 2012?

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    Re: Russian Pilot Training

    Post  TR1 on Thu Mar 22, 2012 9:59 am

    The word after Mi-8 is "Spetsyalniye" Or "Special".

    I believe those are regulation figures for 2011.

    Looks like the big 100 has been breached, good to see!




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    Re: Russian Pilot Training

    Post  Corrosion on Thu Mar 22, 2012 3:11 pm

    I would consider 100 hrs to be an acceptable figure for fighters. Lets see 200 is considered very good around the world. So I think half than that is either spending half than that time in air with same no. of sorties as pilot with 200 hrs or flying half the number of sorties with same amount of flight time as pilot @200hrs. One has to also include type of flying as well to get the entire picture. If you have less resources, being innovative and organized can help you immensely and reduce the gap to minimal. BTW half the number of airtime does not equal pilot quality of half.

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    Re: Russian Pilot Training

    Post  GarryB on Thu Mar 22, 2012 4:31 pm

    Actually you hit upon an important factor, that the Russian pilots don't tend to have the same flight restrictions and their air bases are not as far away from places they can train as many western forces, so a higher number of those hours by the Russian pilots will be useful hours rather than transit hours.

    The adoption of simulators include a new system developed by MIG that is actually 3D which is state of the art with no comparable systems available if you believe the advertising.

    Such simulators allow pilots to train in all sorts of conditions without using fuel or risking aircraft.

    Different locations and weather conditions can be generated and different flight emergencies can be simulated safely with risk to crew or anyone on the ground.

    To be honest the only time I have heard of crews getting 200 hours or more per year is those being overworked in combat zones or because of a shortage of transport aircraft etc.

    I believe the average for NATO during the 1980s without flight sim time was 140 hours.

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    Re: Russian Pilot Training

    Post  TR1 on Mon Mar 26, 2012 1:38 am

    So these numbers seemed to be to good to be true, so I looked around, these are not 100% achieved, but intended by officials. Not all pilots saw this much. Problems not only with money but with aging planes with no resource. Once again, all the more reason to amp up production of fighters and trainers.

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    Re: Russian Pilot Training

    Post  GarryB on Mon Mar 26, 2012 6:09 am

    The figures are planned figures, and planned figures will be based on number of available aircraft, amount of fuel available and available instructors, and of course the weather.

    I would expect these are realistic (ie achievable) figures and not hopes or dreams, so it gives an indication that fuel is available for use and aircraft and pilots are getting significant time in the air.

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    Re: Russian Pilot Training

    Post  gloriousfatherland on Mon Mar 26, 2012 6:34 am

    I would like to see much more virtual/digital trainers involved...There was a documentry that during the 90s the Aerobatic time in Moscow which was also a guard brigade of the airforce, had only one digital trainer which did not have the ability yaw, pitch or roll becuase things was so bad the management couldn't hire a mechanic to fix the moving parts.However this is not the 90s, so I expect these devices to be proliferated, saving engine wear and costs while giving the pilots more time in these in addition to the acutal flight hours they recieve on their aircraft. Once the the big man Super P stops the corruption in the armed forces by corrupt generals and employ a more youthful hierarchy things will surely progress. With medvedev as PM this move has been already initiated, and he have tirelessly stated his stance on corruption

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    Re: Russian Pilot Training

    Post  TR1 on Mon Mar 26, 2012 7:38 am

    GarryB wrote:The figures are planned figures, and planned figures will be based on number of available aircraft, amount of fuel available and available instructors, and of course the weather.

    I would expect these are realistic (ie achievable) figures and not hopes or dreams, so it gives an indication that fuel is available for use and aircraft and pilots are getting significant time in the air.

    Yeah, but the issue is some pilots got anywhere from 50-70 a year, which indicates significant failure on part of the planned numbers by the AF.


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    Re: Russian Pilot Training

    Post  Vladimir79 on Mon Mar 26, 2012 8:26 am

    It is a real tragedy to set allowances in such ways. This is leading to a social stratification of VVS where bribery and corruption are king. The Federal Law was supposed to guarantee better pay for airmen, but all it does is kick them off the train.


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    Re: Russian Pilot Training

    Post  GarryB on Mon Mar 26, 2012 9:13 am

    But what is the solution?

    To set up a whole new structure with the power and independence to be able to go in and deal with it at any level will not be easy or cheap and takes funds away from the core business, which is of course defending Russia.

    The other problem is that endemic corruption that leads all the way up will result in trails that cannot be followed all the way.

    It is like scandals here in government spending where someone gets in the spotlight because they got caught doing something most would see as bad and they excuse it by saying everyone does it, for instance we had a politician claiming expenses to maintain a flat in our capital city even though he never spent any time there are rented it out to a friend.

    Corruption?

    Of course, and the whole idea behind having an opposition to the government is that they should have jumped up and down waiving their knickers in the air and the guilty party should have apologised and given the money back, but the leader of the opposition said very little because he an several other senior members were doing exactly the same thing.

    The irony is that if you look at statistics the west loves to keep that in terms of honesty and integrity that New Zealand rates very highly on both counts yet we have a thoroughly corrupt system too.

    A country the size of Russia of course you will get some units running smooth with a capable force that is efficient and well run and organised and there are others that are like little kingdoms run like the mafia where you don't speak out or else.

    Problems with supply or simply people trying to make a buck might sell the fuel for flights to local businesses or use it to heat buildings in the winter, Or the weather simply might not enable normal flights. Remember if you are not cleared for flying at night or in bad weather up in the north in winter that might mean you only have a few hours a day in winter when you can actually fly, now if there are 5 of you to each plane you might only get a chance to fly once a week assuming good weather...

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    Re: Russian Pilot Training

    Post  gloriousfatherland on Mon Mar 26, 2012 10:51 am

    With the virtual trainers its allows less instances where the corrupt officials wouldn't be able to launder money whether in "non -existant fuels" , imaginary enginer repairs, new missiles etc. It will become harder for fraud whilst maintianing the training to the pilots by allowing similar flight times + flight time in trainer with no net increase in corruption even though more money would have been allocated to the regiments.


    Last edited by gloriousfatherland on Mon Mar 26, 2012 7:32 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : n't)

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    Re: Russian Pilot Training

    Post  GarryB on Mon Mar 26, 2012 4:37 pm

    A better system of accounting and accountability is required and a structure that allows squealers to squeal anonymously and without repercussion is needed... with an initial grace period when the honest who just went along with the system have an opportunity to break with tradition before people start going before judges...

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    Re: Russian Pilot Training

    Post  Vladimir79 on Mon Mar 26, 2012 11:32 pm

    gloriousfatherland wrote:With the virtual trainers its allows less instances where the corrupt officials wouldn't be able to launder money whether in "non -existant fuels" , imaginary enginer repairs, new missiles etc. It will become harder for fraud whilst maintianing the training to the pilots by allowing similar flight times + flight time in trainer with no net increase in corruption even though more money would have been allocated to the regiments.

    Simulators means even less flight hours for pilots who do not bribe their way into the cockpit. The commanders have never evenly distributed flight time and with a new financial bonus for achieving it, never will.


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    Russian Pilot Training

    Post  Stealthflanker on Fri Aug 03, 2012 10:29 pm

    Greetings to all readers and passerby

    Well as the title said..i would like to ask a question related to training of Russian air force pilots and..perhaps overall the state of the VVS.

    Hmm i have someone here bugging my deviant art page telling that Russian AF pilots rarely practice live firing of munitions .. nor having enough fuel to start any exercise and some old things dated back to 1991...hmm i think this might be true in 1991's after collapse of Soviet Union .. but is that true today ? hmm that's also my thoughts too.

    Well i wish Russians here can help me clearing up things ..and many thanks for any answers

    In my opinion though..considering Russians already resuming long range bomber patrol.. there is no reason to doubt that there are no fuel shortage for fighters or training.. but well i think someone who know better can clear it further to me.

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