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    Eurofighter Typhoon Thread:

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    Vladimir79
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    Eurofighter Typhoon Thread:

    Post  Vladimir79 on Fri Aug 07, 2009 1:07 pm

    Typhoon fighter aircraft will receive new weapons and airborne radar
    07.08.2009

    Countries participating project Eurofighter, recently decided to acquire 112 fighter aircraft Eurofighter Typhoon Tranche 3A for the 9 billion euro until the end of 2009, agree on the specification of the production of these aircraft, the Flight Global.

    As the executive director of the consortium Eurofighter Kazolini Enzo (Enzo Casolini), discussion of the configuration of aircraft with its customers - Germany, Italy, Spain and the UK - will include the use in the construction of radar stations with active using phased array antennas, as well as guided missiles Meteor air -Air. " Producer of the latter is the company MBDA.

    Kazolini also said that before the end of 2009 is planned to assess what needed to integrate new elements into the design of fighter aircraft. He also noted that the three member countries endorsed a joint study, which was designed to evaluate the effectiveness of the installation at the new airborne radar aircraft, while the United Kingdom intends to carry out similar work themselves.

    Recall that in 1998, the four European states have ordered in the amount of 620 fighter aircraft, taking delivery of the decision to divide into three tranches until 2017. The third of these customers were to get 236 fighter jets. However, in March of 2009 they decided to divide the tranche into two phases - 3A and 3B. The first involved the supply of 112 and the second - a further 124 vehicles. Germany recently announced that it might abandon the aircraft tranche 3B, since the country's air force is a smaller number of fighters.

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    nemrod
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    Eurofighter-Typhoon versus F-22

    Post  nemrod on Sun May 18, 2014 2:25 pm


    http://www.migflug.com/jetflights/p-i-r-a-t-e-versus-raptor.html


    In a recent exercise, it seems that the Typhoon outmanoeuvred the multi billions US F-22 Raptor. Increasing doubts about the so-called superioty of the F-22.
    This is what a german pilot said :


    As soon as you get to the merge … the Typhoon doesn’t necessarily have to fear the F-22

    This is a direct blow against US doctrine regarding air battle. If a the Typhoon -undoubltly one of the best fighters in the world - is able to outmanoeuvre the F-22 Raptor, there would be the same for Mig, Sukhoi, and chinese-flankers. We will never know what's really happened during this exercise, nevertheless, the F-22 Raptor and the B2 are not the jokers for any new US air campaign.


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    Re: Eurofighter Typhoon Thread:

    Post  Hachimoto on Sun May 18, 2014 3:57 pm

    So your point is evreytime x outperform y in some exercise then x is superior to y ??

    And all we got is a germain pilot saying : i don't fear the F22!

     dunno 

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    Re: Eurofighter Typhoon Thread:

    Post  GarryB on Mon May 19, 2014 11:23 am

    The F-22 is not a dogfighter... it has no AIM-9X nor does it have a helmet mounted sight and would therefore be vulnerable to an early 1980s Mig-29.

    The F-22 is supposed to stand back and fire from a distance where it wont be detected and then withdraw and reload.


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    Re: Eurofighter Typhoon Thread:

    Post  Airbornewolf on Mon May 19, 2014 12:16 pm

    i guess even the Luftwaffe and USAF are disagreeing with eachother about "who won". i think this might be the same article Nemrod quoted.

    http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/in-focus-german-eurofighters-impress-during-red-flag-373312/

    i put my money on the Typhoon tough,

    another good article about the F-22 receiving too much credit than its actually worth in a war.

    http://defenseissues.wordpress.com/2014/03/15/cdi-the-f-22-not-what-we-were-hoping-for/

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    Re: Eurofighter Typhoon Thread:

    Post  Flyingdutchman on Mon May 19, 2014 4:59 pm

    GarryB wrote:The F-22 is not a dogfighter... it has no AIM-9X nor does it have a helmet mounted sight and would therefore be vulnerable to an early 1980s Mig-29.

    The F-22 is supposed to stand back and fire from a distance where it wont be detected and then withdraw and reload.

    You're completely right!!!! Very Happy .

    Only one thing the F-22 has aim-9x.

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    Re: Eurofighter Typhoon Thread:

    Post  Airbornewolf on Mon May 19, 2014 5:42 pm

    GarryB wrote:The F-22 is not a dogfighter... it has no AIM-9X nor does it have a helmet mounted sight and would therefore be vulnerable to an early 1980s Mig-29.

    The F-22 is supposed to stand back and fire from a distance where it wont be detected and then withdraw and reload.

    its amazing that the designers tought on this manner. do they really expect that the F-22 only would be deployed against an enemy with ancient air defense?. or did the U.S goverment never considered it may end up one day fighting modern-day aircraft like the modernised SU-35, JAS39 Griphen or Typhoon?.

    the EU Millitary industrial complex is pretty much selling their products/technology to everyone willing to pay. China receives its aircraft engines from France, Naval fire control from france, its naval ship diesel engines from Germany, etc.

    Russia has several weapon contracts with EU manufacturers. most heard of is of course the two Mistral-carriers France will deliver to Russia. but also Rheinmetall, a large german weapon technology company has extensive deals with Russia and helped Russia revamp its millitary to the technological level of the West. and has no interrest in suspending its co-operation with Russia. Brasil is purchasing the Saab Gripen...against the liking of the U.S of course that perceive it all as "a threat".

    enough critics and notable aircraft designers expressed concern over the F-22 and even more so about the F-35 that they will end up as breakfast for modern Russian and chinese fighters. are the Americans just in denial over its shortcommings untill one day the F-22 gets blown to scrap in the sky's?. or is this the aircraft manufacturer buying a few senators in Congress like what happened when the M-16 was "forced" upon the millitary?.




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    Re: Eurofighter Typhoon Thread:

    Post  Flyingdutchman on Mon May 19, 2014 9:04 pm

    Airbornewolf wrote:

    its amazing that the designers tought on this manner. do they really expect that the F-22 only would be deployed against an enemy with ancient air defense?. or did the U.S goverment never considered it may end up one day fighting modern-day aircraft like the modernised SU-35, JAS39 Griphen or Typhoon?.

    the EU Millitary industrial complex is pretty much selling their products/technology to everyone willing to pay. China receives its aircraft engines from France, Naval fire control from france, its naval ship diesel engines from Germany, etc.

    Russia has several weapon contracts with EU manufacturers. most heard of is of course the two Mistral-carriers France will deliver to Russia. but also Rheinmetall, a large german weapon technology company has extensive deals with Russia and helped Russia revamp its millitary to the technological level of the West. and has no interrest in suspending its co-operation with Russia. Brasil is purchasing the Saab Gripen...against the liking of the U.S of course that perceive it all as "a threat".  

    enough critics and notable aircraft designers expressed concern over the F-22 and even more so about the F-35 that they will end up as breakfast for modern Russian and chinese fighters. are the Americans just in denial over its shortcommings untill one day the F-22 gets blown to scrap in the sky's?. or is this the aircraft manufacturer buying a few senators in Congress like what happened when the M-16 was "forced" upon the millitary?.




    The f-22 is a aircraft to be concerned of and so is the f-35 because the ability to destroy aircraft from one hell of a distance and there powerfull radars.

    The f-22 is one of the best aircraft of the world and would be a good weapon system in a war and very dangerous to be fighting in a war.

    A mix of f-22 and f-35 would be very good the f-35 can shoot there missiles while the f-22 guides the missiles to there targets.

    A SU-35 would have a hard time shooting down a raptor.

    In a very big air war it wouldnt be weird when stealth aircraft are going to get blown to scrap every side will lose aircraft and kill aircraft.

    And the F-22 losed from some aircraft but the raptor probably kills alot of aircraft too but then it isnt world news.

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    Re: Eurofighter Typhoon Thread:

    Post  Airbornewolf on Mon May 19, 2014 9:40 pm

    Flyingdutchman wrote:
    Airbornewolf wrote:

    its amazing that the designers tought on this manner. do they really expect that the F-22 only would be deployed against an enemy with ancient air defense?. or did the U.S goverment never considered it may end up one day fighting modern-day aircraft like the modernised SU-35, JAS39 Griphen or Typhoon?.

    the EU Millitary industrial complex is pretty much selling their products/technology to everyone willing to pay. China receives its aircraft engines from France, Naval fire control from france, its naval ship diesel engines from Germany, etc.

    Russia has several weapon contracts with EU manufacturers. most heard of is of course the two Mistral-carriers France will deliver to Russia. but also Rheinmetall, a large german weapon technology company has extensive deals with Russia and helped Russia revamp its millitary to the technological level of the West. and has no interrest in suspending its co-operation with Russia. Brasil is purchasing the Saab Gripen...against the liking of the U.S of course that perceive it all as "a threat".  

    enough critics and notable aircraft designers expressed concern over the F-22 and even more so about the F-35 that they will end up as breakfast for modern Russian and chinese fighters. are the Americans just in denial over its shortcommings untill one day the F-22 gets blown to scrap in the sky's?. or is this the aircraft manufacturer buying a few senators in Congress like what happened when the M-16 was "forced" upon the millitary?.




    The f-22 is a aircraft to be concerned of and so is the f-35 because the ability to destroy aircraft from one hell of a distance and there powerfull radars.

    The f-22 is one of the best aircraft of the world and would be a good weapon system in a war and very dangerous to be fighting in a war.

    A mix of f-22 and f-35 would be very good the f-35 can shoot there missiles while the f-22 guides the missiles to there targets.

    A SU-35 would have a hard time shooting down a raptor.

    In a very big air war it wouldnt be weird when stealth aircraft are going to get blown to scrap every side will lose aircraft and kill aircraft.

    And the F-22 losed from some aircraft but the raptor probably kills alot of aircraft too but then it isnt world news.

    i PM'd you a youtube U.S airforce intell briefing at the time about how the U.S rates the current "enemy" fighters like the SU-35. they fear it and for good reason. like the weaponry they gave us troops to Afghanistan its untill then you figure out how good it really is in real war.

    our weapon systems do the job, but our Diemaco C7a1 jams if there is some foreign contaminants like sand or dust on the bolt. an AK-47 does not. our vehicles engines grind themselves up because of the fine dust they take in in afghanistan, ive seen T-55's still driving out there in possesion of the Afghan National Army. they do not start pretty, but they do ignite and drive around without the extensive maintenance our vehicles need.

    the Russian weapon design philosophy is very different than from "our" perspective. in Russia its first task is to wage war and the conditions its going to endure. the rest comes later. in the West, its making everything as advanced as it can be but often its plagued with sensitivity to errors/jamming and equipment that just cant handle abnormal conditions.

    like our dutch GILL anti tank system. it was supposed to be "the shit". we tried it out in Afghanistan against a standard shipping container. the missile could not accuire its target with its top-down attack because the surrounding terrain was just as hot as the container itself and it missed its target by 100 meters. it did not posses any secondary targeting options. its a fire and forget weapon. so...you better hope that tank you are aiming on is either an obsolete piece of crap with an humongous heat signature in the desert or you come across it in a nice, comfortable 20 degrees celsius so the missile can distinguish its target from the surroundings. just to point out the serious flaws of Western weaponry, even if this weapon supposed to come out of Isreal.

    anyway, to the point. the russians made the SU-35 and its younger brother PAK-FA 50 to kill Western modern fighters. its not just their ability to fire a wide range of loadouts. their high-manouvrability, advanced electronic warfare and the quality of russian pilots makes them absolutely lethal. keep in mind Russia's design bureau's had 30 years to see Western hardware in action in all the wars NATO got involved in. i do not see Russia's fighters as a threat to europe. they are simply excercise the same right any country has to arm themselves against foreign aggression.


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    Re: Eurofighter Typhoon Thread:

    Post  GarryB on Tue May 20, 2014 11:03 am

    On paper the F-22 is an excellent plane... the 1990s showed that with high off boresight AAMs and helmet mounted sights WVR combat is lethal to both aircraft because as long as the other pilot has time to look and shoot before your missile hits him then there is a good chance that missile he fired will kill you and trading aircraft one for one means disaster for any air force.

    The next generation AAM like the Morfei missile developed for the PAK FA and likely to be used on all modern Russian fighters will have an IIR seeker that seeks an image of the target rather than just hot points... it will have a full thrust vectoring engine to allow it to turn faster than any other object in the air, and it will likely have a two way datalink to allow it to lock on to a target after it has been launched. the latter feature will allow it to be launched from an internal weapons bay without needing to be poked out to view the target before it is launched.

    This new missile will likely be effective against a range of enemy air targets which will likely include enemy missiles like AMRAAM.

    The F-22 is expected to operate high and fast and on its own as a long range sniper picking off enemies before they even know it is there... problem is that with a decent VHF radar on the ground that F-22 is not invisible and its location can be datalinked to an Su-35, MiG-35, or PAK FA in real time. Those Russian aircraft just need a long range missile with a passive seeker like an IIR seeker fitted to Morfei... obviously Morfei will be a short range defensive weapon to shoot down any AMRAAMs the F-22 might direct at the Russian aircraft, but imagine an RVV-BD with an IIR seeker and a datalink to guide it to the location of the F-22. the IIR seeker is non emitting so the F-22 wont get lots of radar waves blasted at it like an active radar homing missile would, and also the IIR seeker could be left active during the entire flight looking for targets on the way.

    Incidents with the B-2 at Farnborough show the IR stealth of US aircraft is not perfect.

    To attack an F-22 in the future a MiG-35 or Su-35 can use R-77s to shoot down incoming AMRAAMs... and after the F-22 has fired 6 AMRAAMs it has its gun left to defend itself, while the Su-35 has 6 more missiles and a gun, while the MiG-35 has at least 2 more missiles and a gun.

    Obviously multiple aircraft on multiple aircraft change this but the US no longer has the best of the best.

    they wanted a guy with a sniper rifle to fight lots of enemies armed with submachineguns... their problem is the invention of the tank and the fact that the enemy is developing long range rifles too...


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    Re: Eurofighter Typhoon Thread:

    Post  nemrod on Tue May 20, 2014 2:06 pm

    Airbornewolf wrote:
    i PM'd you a youtube U.S airforce intell briefing at the time about how the U.S rates the current "enemy" fighters like the SU-35. they fear it and for good reason....
    Hey friend, we are interresting too. Please, If you could post it this link.


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    Re: Eurofighter Typhoon Thread:

    Post  Werewolf on Tue May 20, 2014 2:41 pm


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    Re: Eurofighter Typhoon Thread:

    Post  Flyingdutchman on Tue May 20, 2014 2:45 pm

    Werewolf wrote:

    This is what Airbornewolf sended me in private message!!

    BTW Is every aircraft radar turning like that when tracking an airplane? Like in minute 7. And what aircraft is that in 7;10 minutes?

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    Re: Eurofighter Typhoon Thread:

    Post  Airbornewolf on Tue May 20, 2014 4:57 pm

    yep the vid Werewolf posted is the one i send in the PM to Flyingdutchman Nemrod  Wink 

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    Re: Eurofighter Typhoon Thread:

    Post  Hannibal Barca on Tue May 20, 2014 5:00 pm

    Airbornewolf wrote:yep the vid Werewolf posted is the one i send in the PM to Flyingdutchman Nemrod  Wink 

    You have served in NATO, is this right? What was the general consensus about what the video says?

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    Re: Eurofighter Typhoon Thread:

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Tue May 20, 2014 6:53 pm

    Werewolf wrote:

    You know what's interesting about this vid is that while it's mostly true there's some inaccuracies (it maybe because it's a bit dated, but not entirely the whole reason).

    The claim that the U.S. having a clear cut BVR supremacy "up until now" is not accurate (outside of the F-22 LO status and a slight semiconductor and seeker advantage), due to the fact that Soviet/Russian BVR missiles always had superior kinematic performance which allowed them to have extreme ranges clearly superior to NATO BVR's. The K-100/172 Novator BVR missile is still in development and not in wide active service, which is ok because the R-33 and R-37 are in wide active service and have comparable BVR range to the K-100/172 and lets not forget that once the Mig-31 successor (reportedly the Mig-41) is created it is said to be able to fly high and sustain and super-cruise at mach 4.3 which will greatly enhance the kinematic performance of existing BVR missiles kinematic performance and see a significant increase in range (and the existing BVR's will also see significant modernization by then). The R-37 with a reported 398km range and the K-100/172 with a reported 400km range may see ranges exceed 600km's if fired by a Mig-41 flying high at mach 4.3.

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    Re: Eurofighter Typhoon Thread:

    Post  Airbornewolf on Tue May 20, 2014 9:10 pm

    Hannibal Barca wrote:
    Airbornewolf wrote:yep the vid Werewolf posted is the one i send in the PM to Flyingdutchman Nemrod  Wink 

    You have served in NATO, is this right? What was the general consensus about what the video says?

    i served in the ground forces of NATO, not in the airforce. i flew around in aircraft but mostly i was sitting in the back with the rest of the troops Wink. but i heard enough airforce personell that admit that the russian and chinese caught up with the West concerning technology and weaponry. and basically they complain about how the budget cuts and politicians ruined their air force. if the Dutch Goverment did not invested in the F-35 so much the air force propably went for the Typhoon, the dutch airforce and Thales (dutch weapon contractor) are not impressed with the F-35 performance. but the politicians of course lie their ass off and go force the airforce to buy them nonetheless.

    its a bit the situation everywhere within NATO. us guys involved in the fighting know it, the EU weapon contractors know it. but the Politicians and high ranking officers are so busy being the U.S its bitch and trying to get that little bit of approval from the white house they completely disregard what their own millitary's and industry tell them.

    and in general, i think its safe to say about 70 to 75 percent in the EU NATO does not consider Russia a threat. thats a result of sending your troops to an warzone based on lies and misinformation like Iraq and Afghanistan. Western politicians seem to develop instant amnesia about what really happened there, but the troops that went there do not forget so easily. witch thanks to Western illegal wars most of "us" NATO troops now are fammiliar with what really is going on.

    European NATO pilots have a good sense of the actual capability's of Russian aircraft, its just the NATO leadership and politicians that act like Russia is still flying rustbuckets that NATO can handle easily. i was suprised this youtube intell video described it as "accurate" as it was. even a former european NATO air force General warned in a public newspaper that the Russian aircraft now fly circles around our planes. when in the early 90's it was NATO flying circles around russian aircraft. as a figure of speech.

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    Re: Eurofighter Typhoon Thread:

    Post  nemrod on Wed May 21, 2014 1:49 pm

    Airbornewolf wrote:yep the vid Werewolf posted is the one i send in the PM to Flyingdutchman Nemrod  Wink 

    Thx to all about your videos and your very interresting and usefull comments. If you have other videos do not hesitate to post here.

    Last request, could someone explain us -if it is possible open a new topic about it- the american doctrine of US Air Force.

    Thx to all friends.  Very Happy 

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    Eurofighter Typhoon suffer problem availlability too.

    Post  nemrod on Sun Oct 26, 2014 12:21 pm



    http://rt.com/news/192128-eurofighter-hull-strength-problem/

    This post is the next of another post that I opened here. More you have a sophisticated platform, more you meet problems.


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    Re: Eurofighter Typhoon Thread:

    Post  Hannibal Barca on Sun Oct 26, 2014 12:31 pm

    Simple and effective. That's the way to make money, that's the way to win wars.

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    Re: Eurofighter Typhoon Thread:

    Post  nemrod on Sun Oct 26, 2014 12:52 pm

    Hannibal Barca wrote:Simple and effective. That's the way to make money, that's the way to win wars.

    U can notice the ludicrous US figure, concerning the availlability of the F-22. They pretend 69% of the fleet of 180 F-22-mwahahahahaha Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy - are ready for combat. As I previously post about the US huge economic problem, this assertion is a mere lie. Moreover, they reduced the training of pilot to one third.


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    Re: Eurofighter Typhoon Thread:

    Post  medo on Sun Oct 26, 2014 7:57 pm

    Strength of hull is quite a problem for so expensive jet as Eurofighter. One option is to reduce flight hours and lower G limit or to strengthen the construction of plane, what will increase weight and lower maneuverability and range. Without strengthening of construction life time will be far shorter, so they will sooner need replacement for Eurofighter and I doubt they could afford new fighters in next decade.

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    Re: Eurofighter Typhoon Thread:

    Post  Mike E on Mon Oct 27, 2014 6:38 am

    medo wrote:Strength of hull is quite a problem for so expensive jet as Eurofighter. One option is to reduce flight hours and lower G limit or to strengthen the construction of plane, what will increase weight and lower maneuverability and range. Without strengthening of construction life time will be far shorter, so they will sooner need replacement for Eurofighter and I doubt they could afford new fighters in next decade.
    This article (and all others on the subject as of right now) is too vague to really tell if this is a major structural issue or not. For all I care this could just be a fault in the skin or some other non-crucial component. But, if it is structural, then...... My guess is that the problem is somehow related to the EFT's composite build, thought I could be wrong. Worst case scenario, the airframes will need to be modified or replaced etc. I doubt the modifications would add much weight, if anything the problem would be the cost.

    Nemrod - I don't see why not to believe that figure... The F-22's problems have basically all been worked out, and the only thing keeping some/them grounded is budget/money issues and isn't really related to the plane itself. The training cut back is due to the same thing (money) and is happening all around the AF (not only the F-22). 

    Gotta keep it simple and effective, like Barca said....

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    Re: Eurofighter Typhoon Thread:

    Post  higurashihougi on Mon Oct 27, 2014 9:27 am

    Mike E wrote:Nemrod - I don't see why not to believe that figure... The F-22's problems have basically all been worked out, and the only thing keeping some/them grounded is budget/money issues and isn't really related to the plane itself. The training cut back is due to the same thing (money) and is happening all around the AF (not only the F-22). 

    Gotta keep it simple and effective, like Barca said....

    This is some of the problems we are expected to face when adopting an exotic and novel design. Novel means less familiar and probably expensive. A new design, although clearly superior, may not be widely adapted if the industrial/econmical infrastructure and training background are not ready yet.

    That's the reason why G11, AN-94, TKB-517 are/were not widely adapted in the army.

    Just like the production relationship needs to be compatible with the conditions of the production forces... if not, it will supress the growth of production forces, or the production forces will destroy it and establish a new relationship.

    Who says Marxism-Lenninism is obsolete ? Rolling Eyes Wink

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    Re: Eurofighter Typhoon Thread:

    Post  Mike E on Mon Oct 27, 2014 8:06 pm

    higurashihougi wrote:
    Mike E wrote:Nemrod - I don't see why not to believe that figure... The F-22's problems have basically all been worked out, and the only thing keeping some/them grounded is budget/money issues and isn't really related to the plane itself. The training cut back is due to the same thing (money) and is happening all around the AF (not only the F-22). 

    Gotta keep it simple and effective, like Barca said....

    This is some of the problems we are expected to face when adopting an exotic and novel design. Novel means less familiar and probably expensive. A new design, although clearly superior, may not be widely adapted if the industrial/econmical infrastructure and training background are not ready yet.

    That's the reason why G11, AN-94, TKB-517 are/were not widely adapted in the army.

    Just like the production relationship needs to be compatible with the conditions of the production forces... if not, it will supress the growth of production forces, or the production forces will destroy it and establish a new relationship.

    Who says Marxism-Lenninism is obsolete ? Rolling Eyes Wink

    Which doesn't explain a thing...... I'd be willing to bet that 69% of the F-22 fleet it combat-ready, and I'll believe that until someone proves me wrong.

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