Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues


    Russia and Turkey

    Share
    avatar
    miketheterrible

    Posts : 2753
    Points : 2735
    Join date : 2016-11-06

    Re: Russia and Turkey

    Post  miketheterrible on Sat Sep 15, 2018 11:34 pm

    that pretty much it.

    People here think Russia is a terrible place for people who are gay or black. They think that they will be murdered on the streets by the police.

    Russian tourism sucks because no one bothers to advertise Russia. Even the World Cup, most people were afraid. Afterwards they found out Russia was an awesome place and very hospitable. But that was only because they went to go see it anyway.

    Western propaganda will make Russia out to be like Orc Land. Reality may be a whole lot different but most people won't know that. They are stupid in general so they are believed whatever they hear.

    Turkey is a NATO country, people think because of that, Turkey must be best place ever to visit.

    Saudi Arabia and others are terrible for tourists, and is honestly a bad place to go to. Yet people go travel there, as ISOS said.

    Russia is inherently crap at advertising and promotion.
    avatar
    GarryB

    Posts : 18633
    Points : 19189
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Russia and Turkey

    Post  GarryB on Sun Sep 16, 2018 12:29 pm

    According to wiki, 70-80% of turks identify themselves as turks. Kurds represent 20%. That's not enough to destroy turkey. Trump will be removed at the next election and all its crazy staff.

    Weakining of turkey, yes. Partition, unlikely.

    And when Serb citizens decide they are actually Albanians they get Kosovo...

    People here think Russia is a terrible place for people who are gay or black. They think that they will be murdered on the streets by the police.

    Comments about that from people who went to the Soccer world cup... they were found to be stereotypes and wrong...

    Western propaganda will make Russia out to be like Orc Land. Reality may be a whole lot different but most people won't know that. They are stupid in general so they are believed whatever they hear.

    And that is the problem... western propaganda... I don't think Russia would benefit from a lot of English yobs going to the Black Sea in Russia... Russia would be better off having Russians that normally leave the country for their holiday actually exploring their own country instead... as one Russian found... going to the US and being interested in guns has gotten her put in jail... I bet her twitter account will set the story straight for wide eyed Russians who believe the American bullshit... land of the free and anyone can make it if they work hard...


    Russia is inherently crap at advertising and promotion.

    The more separation between Russia and the west is good for Russia... the west is infected and really not a good partner in anything.

    Turkey under Erdogan has upset the EU and the US... it is perfectly possible they might want to destabilise the country themselves... they already had a shot at Erdogan... who says another one is impossible and wont be more successful?

    At the end of the day I would personally prefer Turkey and Russia and Syria and Iran to work together to get rid of some real dirtbags... perhaps the Turkish plan is to send in some cannon fodder and then let the Russians and Syrians kill them all for them...

    I remember reading an article recently where Micron said that Russia and Syria should not attack idlib because there will be French terrorists there and if they do attack they might flee Idlib and come back to France... so that is probably the reasoning behind most of the EU reticence at Russia squeesing the last pimple of ISIS and Al queda in the area... lets face it the civilians who live there must not be very nice people to put up with that crap... half of them will likely be family members of ISIS anyway...

    Tingsay

    Posts : 71
    Points : 75
    Join date : 2016-12-09

    Re: Russia and Turkey

    Post  Tingsay on Sun Sep 16, 2018 2:03 pm

    miketheterrible wrote:that pretty much it.

    People here think Russia is a terrible place for people who are gay or black.  They think that they will be murdered on the streets by the police.

    Russian tourism sucks because no one bothers to advertise Russia.  Even the World Cup, most people were afraid.  Afterwards they found out Russia was an awesome place and very hospitable.  But that was only because they went to go see it anyway.

    Western propaganda will make Russia out to be like Orc Land.  Reality may be a whole lot different but most people won't know that.  They are stupid in general so they are believed whatever they hear.

    Turkey is a NATO country, people think because of that, Turkey must be best place ever to visit.

    Saudi Arabia and others are terrible for tourists, and is honestly a bad place to go to.  Yet people go travel there, as ISOS said.

    Russia is inherently crap at advertising and promotion.

    Given "Racism" has become a clusterfuck of small amounts of truth, small amounts of debatable and far larger amounts of speculations and immediate accusations, Russia is probably far better off being seen as a "Racist" country. Laughing

    Mass immigration is a symptom of an imbalanced world anyway. Most third world countries dont see how their people immigrating is worse for them than the host countries like the West.

    Russia should remain 90% Russian, don't care if its "Racist". Same is true for any self respecting nation that don't see perpetual economic growth as a sustainable future.
    World is overpopulated(rare exception like Russia which is underpopulated).

    People increase, Land doesnt.
    Protect your nation, people culture and bloodline, please.
    avatar
    GunshipDemocracy

    Posts : 3716
    Points : 3754
    Join date : 2015-05-17
    Age : 76
    Location : fishin on Stalin´s Strait between Mexico and Canada

    Re: Russia and Turkey

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Sun Sep 16, 2018 2:23 pm

    Tingsay wrote:
    Russia should remain 90% Russian, don't care if its "Racist". Same is true for any self respecting nation that don't see perpetual economic growth as a sustainable future.
    World is overpopulated(rare exception like Russia which is underpopulated).


    the world dis not overpopulated yet. there are millions square kilometers unused. The problem is in how resources are divided. People were always wandering and travelling and emigrating. Russian consist of over 100 nationalities and racist is worst nightmare.

    Besides in natural growth wobbling around 0 and no smart immigration you have little chance for economic development. Yes number of peope does count otherwise Switzerland would have more wight then China or Japan but it doesnt.



    People increase, Land doesnt.
    Protect your nation, people culture and bloodline, please.
    The best way to protect your nation is strong unity and culture able to assimilate others who want to join and contribute
    avatar
    Airman

    Posts : 413
    Points : 461
    Join date : 2016-10-15
    Location : Turkey

    Re: Russia and Turkey

    Post  Airman on Sun Sep 16, 2018 7:06 pm

    Vladimir79 wrote:
    You confuse business investments with politics.  Turkey is not at our border, if they are set on fire is only good for us.   What do we need from trade with Turkey that we can't get form China?  They offer nothing and are just another market for oil and gas, that will be the case regardless if they are partitioned or not.  They are stealing tourists that should be vacationing in Sochi, not in Anatolia.  All of that money will be going back into the Russian economy.   The collapse of Turkey gives Armenia breathing space and makes threats from Azerbaijan nullified.  The NK issue can finally be settled, the Kurdish issue can finally be resolved, the Cyprus issue will end, the threats to Greece will be eliminated.  The existence of Turkey is a cancer on the region, their demise will be a relief to all.

    What a hateful and disgusting message. I think that's why Russian tourists are visiting Turkey because there are very rude people in Russia just like you. My best advice too you is follow the forum rules. http://www.russiadefence.net/t7624-listen-carefully, That thread also was opened by you.

    Russia is already lost control in Armenia, just like Ukraine and Georgia. Citizens of Armenia and It's Army forced Serzh Sargsyan to resign and Western-backed Nikol Pashinyan became Prime Minister and now he's waiting for a right time to backstab Russia. Also, Iran, your best ally in ME, doesn't want an independent Kurdish state in the Middle East. If you wanna set up a Kurdish State in the ME, Iran will cut relations with Russia. If the Kurds take over Iran, They can threat Russia by using the Caspian Sea, because this is what USA wants and the Kurds serve only for American interests.
    avatar
    Vladimir79

    Posts : 2539
    Points : 3419
    Join date : 2009-07-10

    Re: Russia and Turkey

    Post  Vladimir79 on Sun Sep 16, 2018 11:55 pm

    Airman wrote:

    What a hateful and disgusting message. I think that's why Russian tourists are visiting Turkey because there are very rude people in Russia just like you. My best advice too you is follow the forum rules. http://www.russiadefence.net/t7624-listen-carefully, That thread also was opened by you.

    Calling for the partition of a state sponsor of terrorism is hardly breaking my rules. If you read them you will find they are to prevent personal attacks to members of this forum. Turkey is not a member of this forum, let me know if he joins.

    Russia is already lost control in Armenia, just like Ukraine and Georgia. Citizens of Armenia and It's Army forced Serzh Sargsyan to resign and Western-backed Nikol Pashinyan became Prime Minister and now he's waiting for a right time to backstab Russia. Also, Iran, your best ally in ME, doesn't want an independent Kurdish state in the Middle East. If you wanna set up a Kurdish State in the ME, Iran will cut relations with Russia. If the Kurds take over Iran, They can threat Russia by using the Caspian Sea, because this is what USA wants and the Kurds serve only for American interests.

    Good for Pashinyan, there is not much he can do without Russia surrounded by enemies like Turkey and Azerbaijan. He is not anti-Russia but he is pro-European. Both Ukraine and Georgia are in economic crisis, with the collapse of the Turkish economy it will push them over the brink. The Kurd's in Iran are not as nationalist as the ones in the other enclaves, as long as they don't leave it doesn't effect Iran. There are much bigger minorities that Iran is worried about other than the Kurds like the Azeri Turks whose separatist movement is tacitly supported by Ankara. They can threaten Russia by using the Caspian Sea as a combined Azerbaijan would have vast resources along with a Turkish alliance.
    avatar
    Walther von Oldenburg

    Posts : 998
    Points : 1057
    Join date : 2015-01-23
    Age : 27
    Location : Oldenburg

    Re: Russia and Turkey

    Post  Walther von Oldenburg on Mon Sep 17, 2018 1:14 am

    Volodya, how do yoy imagine partition of Turdkey? Independent Kurdistan and what then?

    What happens to Istanbul and the rest?
    avatar
    Vladimir79

    Posts : 2539
    Points : 3419
    Join date : 2009-07-10

    Re: Russia and Turkey

    Post  Vladimir79 on Mon Sep 17, 2018 2:44 am

    Walther von Oldenburg wrote:Volodya, how do yoy imagine partition of Turdkey? Independent Kurdistan and what then?

    What happens to Istanbul and the rest?

    Kurdistan and Armenia would eat up the Eastern third, Syria would get Hatay and a few other coastal provinces with Arabs in it. The Euro side can be split up between Greece, Bulgaria and Russia gets a canal zone. All of the islands and West coast go to Greece. Turkey would be made up of the provinces around Ankara.
    avatar
    Walther von Oldenburg

    Posts : 998
    Points : 1057
    Join date : 2015-01-23
    Age : 27
    Location : Oldenburg

    Re: Russia and Turkey

    Post  Walther von Oldenburg on Mon Sep 17, 2018 3:11 am

    What about Istanbul? Should it be split up or given to one country,?

    The rest... I like it. russia
    avatar
    LMFS

    Posts : 823
    Points : 817
    Join date : 2018-03-03

    Re: Russia and Turkey

    Post  LMFS on Mon Sep 17, 2018 4:08 am

    Disappointing comments above. A better system of international relationships cannot be based on considering countries cancers and dismembering them, independent of how noxious their current leadership can be. Every modern nation-state is a conglomerate of peoples, traditions and languages and hence subject to fractures and division, Russia being a prime example. Such attitudes coming from Russian nationals only lend legitimacy to current Russia-bashing hysteria and the attempts to break the country during the nineties. Thankfully current leadership understands what respect and constructive attitudes mean in the field of international relationships.

    To summarize using a well-known phrasing, Erdogans come and go, the Turkish people stays.
    avatar
    Vladimir79

    Posts : 2539
    Points : 3419
    Join date : 2009-07-10

    Re: Russia and Turkey

    Post  Vladimir79 on Mon Sep 17, 2018 5:19 am

    LMFS wrote:Disappointing comments above. A better system of international relationships cannot be based on considering countries cancers and dismembering them, independent of how noxious their current leadership can be. Every modern nation-state is a conglomerate of peoples, traditions and languages and hence subject to fractures and division, Russia being a prime example. Such attitudes coming from Russian nationals only lend legitimacy to current Russia-bashing hysteria and the attempts to break the country during the nineties. Thankfully current leadership understands what respect and constructive attitudes mean in the field of international relationships.

    To summarize using a well-known phrasing, Erdogans come and go, the Turkish people stays.

    When the Middle East's borders were drawn up by the West the people of those countries had no say. It has led to decades of war and civil strife. It is about time those mistakes were corrected to make a more peaceful and safer world. The partition of Turkey is a necessary step to achieve that. Turks talk all day about the partition of Syria but somehow it is taboo to turn it around on them?

    The borders will be changing... it is a matter of who comes out on top.
    avatar
    LMFS

    Posts : 823
    Points : 817
    Join date : 2018-03-03

    Re: Russia and Turkey

    Post  LMFS on Mon Sep 17, 2018 2:22 pm

    Vladimir79 wrote:
    LMFS wrote:Disappointing comments above. A better system of international relationships cannot be based on considering countries cancers and dismembering them, independent of how noxious their current leadership can be. Every modern nation-state is a conglomerate of peoples, traditions and languages and hence subject to fractures and division, Russia being a prime example. Such attitudes coming from Russian nationals only lend legitimacy to current Russia-bashing hysteria and the attempts to break the country during the nineties. Thankfully current leadership understands what respect and constructive attitudes mean in the field of international relationships.

    To summarize using a well-known phrasing, Erdogans come and go, the Turkish people stays.

    When the Middle East's borders were drawn up by the West the people of those countries had no say.  It has led to decades of war and civil strife.  It is about time those mistakes were corrected to make a more peaceful and safer world.  The partition of Turkey is a necessary step to achieve that.  Turks talk all day about the partition of Syria but somehow it is taboo to turn it around on them?  

    The borders will be changing... it is a matter of who comes out on top.  
    Perhaps you understand the same argument "partition is necessary for a safer world" can be applied to Russia too. Messing with borders under the excuse of past errors is the way to war not to peace. If countries need to change, they need to do it on their own decision and at their own speed. Don't believe the average Turk is wishing the destruction of Syria, the same I don't believe the average Russian is waiting their chance to subjugate everybody in the West. Normal people have no business in these insane schemes but end up paying the price of destabilization and wars.
    avatar
    Isos

    Posts : 2454
    Points : 2448
    Join date : 2015-11-06

    Re: Russia and Turkey

    Post  Isos on Mon Sep 17, 2018 2:33 pm

    Vladimir79 wrote:
    Walther von Oldenburg wrote:Volodya, how do yoy imagine partition of Turdkey? Independent Kurdistan and what then?

    What happens to Istanbul and the rest?

    Kurdistan and Armenia would eat up the Eastern third, Syria would get Hatay and a few other coastal provinces with Arabs in it.  The Euro side can be split up between Greece, Bulgaria and Russia gets a canal zone.  All of the islands and West coast go to Greece.  Turkey would be made up of the provinces around Ankara.  

    Kurdistan would be attacked by neighbours. Armenian forces can be destroyed by turkish air force or at least get heavy causualities to enable azerbaidjan destroy them. Russia won't help any side as they sell weapons to both.

    Assad's Syria can't hold its own territory. Let alone grabing a territory of a nato country. USA would use that to destroy assad and maje things better with Turkey which is a market of 80 million people.

    Greece and bulgaria are nato and EU members. The canal would be used by nato forces if Turkey is not member anymore.
    avatar
    GunshipDemocracy

    Posts : 3716
    Points : 3754
    Join date : 2015-05-17
    Age : 76
    Location : fishin on Stalin´s Strait between Mexico and Canada

    Re: Russia and Turkey

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Mon Sep 17, 2018 2:58 pm

    LMFS wrote:

    The borders will be changing... it is a matter of who comes out on top.  
    Perhaps you understand the same argument "partition is necessary for a safer world" can be applied to Russia too. Messing with borders under the excuse of past errors is the way to war not to peace. If countries need to change, they need to do it on their own decision and at their own speed. Don't believe the average Turk is wishing the destruction of Syria, the same I don't believe the average Russian is waiting their chance to subjugate everybody in the West. Normal people have no business in these insane schemes but end up paying the price of destabilization and wars. [/quote]

    But west + Turkey actually applied this to Soviet Union already. Did anybody asked Serbians if they want to let Kosovo ? Do you think Soviet citizens wanted destruction of their country and years of calamity/crime? Tureky was very active in supporting Arab terrorists in Chechnya/Dagestan.


    Who form Kurds had any say if they want to ztay in turkey as second class citizens? Well strong survive weak will be partitioned anyway.
    avatar
    Vladimir79

    Posts : 2539
    Points : 3419
    Join date : 2009-07-10

    Re: Russia and Turkey

    Post  Vladimir79 on Mon Sep 17, 2018 3:21 pm

    LMFS wrote:
    Perhaps you understand the same argument "partition is necessary for a safer world" can be applied to Russia too. Messing with borders under the excuse of past errors is the way to war not to peace. If countries need to change, they need to do it on their own decision and at their own speed. Don't believe the average Turk is wishing the destruction of Syria, the same I don't believe the average Russian is waiting their chance to subjugate everybody in the West. Normal people have no business in these insane schemes but end up paying the price of destabilization and wars.

    You forget that Turkey already tried to partition Chechnya from us.  I spent nearly two years of my life fighting the Islamic terrorism they brought to the Caucasus.  To this day Turkey still harbours Shivani Basayev and twelve others wanted for war crimes yet they are allowed to walk the streets and coordinate terrorism.  Some of the men coordinate ISIL from Istanbul and Turkey lets this go on.  Turkey pays and arms Al-Queda, it is a state sponsor of terrorism if it isn't a terrorist state itself.  Do you know what Russians care about?  It isn't global domination, it is respect.  Turkey disrespects us every day and at every turn.  They need to learn that the Ottoman Empire isn't coming back, what is left of it is collapsing.
    avatar
    LMFS

    Posts : 823
    Points : 817
    Join date : 2018-03-03

    Re: Russia and Turkey

    Post  LMFS on Mon Sep 17, 2018 8:41 pm

    Vladimir79 wrote:You forget that Turkey already tried to partition Chechnya from us.  I spent nearly two years of my life fighting the Islamic terrorism they brought to the Caucasus.  To this day Turkey still harbours Shivani Basayev and twelve others wanted for war crimes yet they are allowed to walk the streets and coordinate terrorism.  Some of the men coordinate ISIL from Istanbul and Turkey lets this go on.  Turkey pays and arms Al-Queda, it is a state sponsor of terrorism if it isn't a terrorist state itself.  Do you know what Russians care about?  It isn't global domination, it is respect.  Turkey disrespects us every day and at every turn.  They need to learn that the Ottoman Empire isn't coming back, what is left of it is collapsing.

    No I don't forget it, precisely because I despise the attempts to turn Russians' life a hell I reject doing the same to the Turks. Overly ambitions and foul play by Erdogan and co. are being cut down to size, slice after slice, outsmarted by Putin and his admirable sanity and understanding of long term country development. This happens never as fast as one could wish for but this is not about concrete men or about revenge, is about whole countries an the millions that suffer every time some maniac decides lightly to play with their fates. A war consumes the lifes and resources of a whole generation and is what the West would wish for Russia and its allies the most, especially if they manage to get them killing each other.

    Precisely now your president shows how this game is played, sealing a deal with Erdogan that allows to save hundreds of lives (not only jihadists but also SAA soldiers and civilians), forces Turkey to do the cleaning in Idlib and defuses the imminent attack by the West, at the same time that allows both countries to save face and avoid a very serious deterioration of their relationship. Each day that passes under these circumstances plays in favour of the Russian strategy, weakens the West and reinforces the ties of Turkey with the Eastern Block.

    Sponsored content

    Re: Russia and Turkey

    Post  Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Mon Nov 19, 2018 2:51 am