Russia and Turkey

GarryB wrote:

A Baltic way is far more likely. Direct to every country that really need the gas.

The only country making pipes is Russia and they are making their pipeline go through Turkey.

Why would they route their gas through the Baltic? Those countries are as bad as Ukraine in terms of relations with Russia... at least Turkey will appreciate the business.

I rather suspect Russia will stop selling to Europe and just sell to Turkey and Turkey can sell to Europe for any price they like...

GarryB wrote:Currently.

Russia has realised the Ukraine is an unreliable transit partner and those pipes going through the Ukraine will likely be closed when the pipeline to Turkey is completed.

I am not anti europe... I am realistic.

Europe has done everything it could to make things hard for Russia and so Russia will sort things out... the EU complains that it is not fair for a producer to also be a supplier... by selling to Turkey Russia stops being the supplier.

GarryB wrote:

Far from realistic, intensely anti-European, since you are obviouly appliying different measuring criteria for Europe and Turkey.

Europe has been actively anti Russian for quite some time... how should the Russians be treating them?

Turkey has been hostile too but at least they are talking.

Your last sentence is not true. Europe just stopped the NATO from entering in the war of Ukraine as the US wished, and Russia knows it. For the record no-one in Europe shut down a Su-24. Only Turkey. And no-one in Europe invaded Syria. Only Turkey.

Of course... Europe is just misunderstood. Moving fighters to the Baltic region is for Russias protection, and all those US tank divisions moving from western europe to eastern europe is just for fun.

Supporting an illegal coup on Russias doorstep and supporting nazis to take power there so the EU can lure the Ukraine away from Russian influence is best for Russia and the Ukraine...

They didn't shoot down Russian aircraft, but they banned Russian ships from using their ports and continue to impose sanctions on Russia for things that are basically none of their business.

The sooner Russia severs ties with the EU the safer it will be from attempts at manipulation from the other ends of those ties.

sure Turkey will not be the third in the club trying to obtain advantages from the pipelines for the Russian gas. If you dream with it, you are all but realistic.

Russia will just be selling gas to Turkey... any issues past turkey in Europe for that gas is not Russias concern. The EU can sort those issues out with turkey... I am sure Turkey will be reasonable after the way the EU has been treating Turkey.

It is interesting to note that Erdogan declared officially dead in 2015 the Turkish project that is now being relaunched. By 2017 maybe dead again.

Turkey wants to make money and being a transit point for russian gas will make them some money... they will be easier to deal with than the Ukraine... which is the whole point.

And no-one in Europe invaded Syria. Only Turkey.

Actually the US has also invaded Syria... at least Turkey has the excuse of fighting the Kurds...

GarryB wrote:

You are mixing lots of things to defend your anti-European statements, while you are always ready to accept the Turkish excuses. Even you are  blaming Europe for what the US does. A true non-sense, a true joke.

I have no reason to be pro europe... they clearly hate Russia and will do everything they can to undermine growth and progress in that country.

Turkey is a NATO member with US nuclear weapons inside looking at Russia, that is invading Syria, that supported the coup in Ukraine, that supported the economic sanctions to Russia, and that even attacked directly the Russian Armed Forces with the shut down of a Russian Su-24.

So it is no different than the rest of europe, yet it is rather more interested in business with Russia and dealing with one man is much easier than dealing with a diverse committee where every retard gets a say.

There is not a single European country with the same negative record toward Russia in recent years. Not even the UK, despite to be strongly hostile toward Russia and to be far from representing the average European positions.

Their record is worse... the only thing missing is shooting down a Fencer.

For the record, US divisions are US divisions. Not European divisions. You should not blame Europe by bilateral US-Poland or US-Latvia agreements. But obviously these facts are not important for you since you want to keep your anti-European rethoric.

To put US forces in Europe they need the approval of European countries... who else is to blame? Turkey?

Neither the UK, Poland or Latvia are spokesperson of what Europe does and thinks. Put it inside your mind if you want to avoid ridiculous comments about an entire continent.

One europe... a collective ruled from Brussels with one voice.

And neither Russia and Europe want opportunistic governments like Poland, Ukraine or Turkey touching the gas transit between Russia and Europe. This is the reason of the success of the Nord Stream pipelines. Before to talk about what you know not, better try to check who is opposed to the Nord Stream pipelines, and try to think why despite it, the project is going forward.

I don't care. This is about getting Russian gas to European customers in a way that will bypass the Ukraine and Baltic.

In terms of the southern route Turkey is the best option for Russia.

Turkey is a NATO member I am sure the EU will be able to negotiate rules and prices very quickly and efficiently...

eehnie wrote:

GarryB wrote:

You are mixing lots of things to defend your anti-European statements, while you are always ready to accept the Turkish excuses. Even you are  blaming Europe for what the US does. A true non-sense, a true joke.

I have no reason to be pro europe... they clearly hate Russia and will do everything they can to undermine growth and progress in that country.

Turkey is a NATO member with US nuclear weapons inside looking at Russia, that is invading Syria, that supported the coup in Ukraine, that supported the economic sanctions to Russia, and that even attacked directly the Russian Armed Forces with the shut down of a Russian Su-24.

So it is no different than the rest of europe, yet it is rather more interested in business with Russia and dealing with one man is much easier than dealing with a diverse committee where every retard gets a say.

There is not a single European country with the same negative record toward Russia in recent years. Not even the UK, despite to be strongly hostile toward Russia and to be far from representing the average European positions.

Their record is worse... the only thing missing is shooting down a Fencer.

For the record, US divisions are US divisions. Not European divisions. You should not blame Europe by bilateral US-Poland or US-Latvia agreements. But obviously these facts are not important for you since you want to keep your anti-European rethoric.

To put US forces in Europe they need the approval of European countries... who else is to blame? Turkey?

Neither the UK, Poland or Latvia are spokesperson of what Europe does and thinks. Put it inside your mind if you want to avoid ridiculous comments about an entire continent.

One europe... a collective ruled from Brussels with one voice.

And neither Russia and Europe want opportunistic governments like Poland, Ukraine or Turkey touching the gas transit between Russia and Europe. This is the reason of the success of the Nord Stream pipelines. Before to talk about what you know not, better try to check who is opposed to the Nord Stream pipelines, and try to think why despite it, the project is going forward.

I don't care. This is about getting Russian gas to European customers in a way that will bypass the Ukraine and Baltic.

In terms of the southern route Turkey is the best option for Russia.

Turkey is a NATO member I am sure the EU will be able to negotiate rules and prices very quickly and efficiently...

Pathetic.

miketheterrible wrote:

eehnie wrote:

GarryB wrote:I don't care. This is about getting Russian gas to European customers in a way that will bypass the Ukraine and Baltic.

In terms of the southern route Turkey is the best option for Russia.

Turkey is a NATO member I am sure the EU will be able to negotiate rules and prices very quickly and efficiently...

Pathetic.

Thanks John McClain for the one liner. But instead, try to refute him, cause he is correct.

miketheterrible wrote:And? In the end Erdofan threw the pilot under the bus after they flew away from Turkeym and threw 35,000+ in jail. Add to that he claims he isn't at fault and blamed the PM, U.S. an the supporters of the coup. U.S. and EU are about as guilty as Turkey while at leas Turkey wants to do business with Russia. May not be much better - comparing a diseased rodent with a roach. But still better to deal with the none infected Turkroach.

miketheterrible wrote:And? In the end Erdofan threw the pilot under the bus after they flew away from Turkeym and threw 35,000+ in jail. Add to that he claims he isn't at fault and blamed the PM, U.S. an the supporters of the coup. U.S. and EU are about as guilty as Turkey while at leas Turkey wants to do business with Russia. May not be much better - comparing a diseased rodent with a roach. But still better to deal with the none infected Turkroach.

KiloGolf wrote:

miketheterrible wrote:And? In the end Erdofan threw the pilot under the bus after they flew away from Turkeym and threw 35,000+ in jail. Add to that he claims he isn't at fault and blamed the PM, U.S. an the supporters of the coup. U.S. and EU are about as guilty as Turkey while at leas Turkey wants to do business with Russia. May not be much better - comparing a diseased rodent with a roach. But still better to deal with the none infected Turkroach.

Turkey has also brought many years of war within Russia itself, in the 90s and 00s and had always a clear Crimean agenda. When Russia was weak Turkey's policy was to send money, beardies and arms to the bad guys. Right now they invaded a Russian ally, openly and a mere year after shooting down a Russian plane that was supporting said ally, massacred its pilot and put it on youtube for the lulz.

They sound like the ideal business partners for Russia

KoTeMoRe wrote:Yet Erdross was the ideal partner. He stopped the Pankisi Gorge BS. He gave names, allowed FSB to whack beardies in Ankara and Constantinople, sold couple.of.goodies to Russia, brand.spanking new CNC machines for infantry weapons were sold to Russia without even removing the boxes from Germany. Basically Putin and Erdogan should have been BFF, if Erdo wasn't as Ottomaniac as he is.

miketheterrible wrote:

eehnie wrote:

GarryB wrote:

You are mixing lots of things to defend your anti-European statements, while you are always ready to accept the Turkish excuses. Even you are  blaming Europe for what the US does. A true non-sense, a true joke.

I have no reason to be pro europe... they clearly hate Russia and will do everything they can to undermine growth and progress in that country.

Turkey is a NATO member with US nuclear weapons inside looking at Russia, that is invading Syria, that supported the coup in Ukraine, that supported the economic sanctions to Russia, and that even attacked directly the Russian Armed Forces with the shut down of a Russian Su-24.

So it is no different than the rest of europe, yet it is rather more interested in business with Russia and dealing with one man is much easier than dealing with a diverse committee where every retard gets a say.

There is not a single European country with the same negative record toward Russia in recent years. Not even the UK, despite to be strongly hostile toward Russia and to be far from representing the average European positions.

Their record is worse... the only thing missing is shooting down a Fencer.

For the record, US divisions are US divisions. Not European divisions. You should not blame Europe by bilateral US-Poland or US-Latvia agreements. But obviously these facts are not important for you since you want to keep your anti-European rethoric.

To put US forces in Europe they need the approval of European countries... who else is to blame? Turkey?

Neither the UK, Poland or Latvia are spokesperson of what Europe does and thinks. Put it inside your mind if you want to avoid ridiculous comments about an entire continent.

One europe... a collective ruled from Brussels with one voice.

And neither Russia and Europe want opportunistic governments like Poland, Ukraine or Turkey touching the gas transit between Russia and Europe. This is the reason of the success of the Nord Stream pipelines. Before to talk about what you know not, better try to check who is opposed to the Nord Stream pipelines, and try to think why despite it, the project is going forward.

I don't care. This is about getting Russian gas to European customers in a way that will bypass the Ukraine and Baltic.

In terms of the southern route Turkey is the best option for Russia.

Turkey is a NATO member I am sure the EU will be able to negotiate rules and prices very quickly and efficiently...

Pathetic.

Thanks John McClain for the one liner. But instead, try to refute him, cause he is correct.

eehnie wrote:Nothing to refute as everyone with some brain can see. He said nothing corret.

What I have to say? That Ireland, Finland (that are not even in the NATO) or my country (that voted No to the NATO) must be blamed because of some bilateral US-Poland deal that allow the US to put their weapons in Poland, while Turkey must not be blamed by a US-Turkey bilateral deal that allow the US to have nuclear weapons looking at Russia?

Are not you smart enough to see it? Even GW Bush would understand it.

KiloGolf wrote:

eehnie wrote:Nothing to refute as everyone with some brain can see. He said nothing corret.

What I have to say? That Ireland, Finland (that are not even in the NATO) or my country (that voted No to the NATO) must be blamed because of some bilateral US-Poland deal that allow the US to put their weapons in Poland, while Turkey must not be blamed by a US-Turkey bilateral deal that allow the US to have nuclear weapons looking at Russia?

Are not you smart enough to see it? Even GW Bush would understand it.

Turkey is also hosting the ABM X-band radar.



yay they friends now

GarryB wrote:An incomplete system that may never become operational...

And that X band radar is mounted on an oil rig platform so technically it will be in the Black Sea... Not on Turkish territory.

GarryB wrote:

Pathetic.

Like it or not the simple fact is that Turkey is wanting to talk things through with Russia and work together on several deals.

Europe is not.

KiloGolf wrote:

GarryB wrote:An incomplete system that may never become operational...

And that X band radar is mounted on an oil rig platform so technically it will be in the Black Sea... Not on Turkish territory.

Territorial waters, within 12 nm offshore

Airman wrote:I don't know where you heard that but There is no Sea-based X-band Radar(SBX-1) in Turkish territorial waters. There is only AN/TPY-2 Radar in Malatya Province.

GarryB wrote:Better relations with Russia might lead to Turkey changing its mind in that regard.

Certainly not talking to Turkey and trying to befriend the EU wont change much... Russia has been trying for some time to open communication channels with Europe... there have been some positive signs since trump was elected, but I will believe it when I see it.

Personally I think Russia should actively improve relations with turkey where it benefits both countries to do so... there is plenty of scope and both countries could really help each other in many areas.

I don't think they will be best buddies, but they can certainly work together and solve a few problems each has.

The europeans on the other hand don't consider Russia to be part of europe... makes Russia a bit like Turkey really does it not?