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    Overseas Naval Bases

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    In which country you think Russia could deploy a naval military base?

    [ 7 ]
    23% [23%] 
    [ 2 ]
    6% [6%] 
    [ 0 ]
    0% [0%] 
    [ 3 ]
    10% [10%] 
    [ 11 ]
    35% [35%] 
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    [ 6 ]
    19% [19%] 

    Total Votes: 31

    flamming_python
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    Re: Overseas Naval Bases

    Post  flamming_python on Sun Jun 03, 2012 4:13 pm

    GarryB wrote:Having a base in the Med would be useful, and having one in south east asia would be useful too but if Russia wants bases that extend reach and reduce operational costs and increase times on station then each fleet needs a base near its operational area... for the Northern Fleet unless you want it to be an arctic ocean force then bases further afield makes more sense and bases in Cuba or Venezuela mean voyages from Russia don't need so much food and supplies because when they reach Cuba they can refuel and the crew can have a break before heading to south and central America or Africa. For the Pacific fleet a base in Vietnam means trips to allies in India or countries like Malaysia and Indonesia that are buying Flankers is an easy visit, and trips to south america are much shorter without having to pass through the panama canal.
    Bases in the med are useful for the top of africa visits and the belly of europe visits but a base in southern Iran or the Persian gulf or even Pakistan or India would allow long term operations on anti piracy missions off the coast of africa that don't require support ships traveling from Tartus through the Suez all the time.

    Having bases closer to operational areas means more time on station doing the job and much less time in transit without starvation rations or any other drastic measures.

    Obviously basing agreements need to be carefully worked out and the country has to be stable and Russia needs good relations with those in power and those who are legitimate opposition groups (as opposed to the illegitimate rebels in Syria who kill people to get the west involved... just as the KLA did in Kosovo).

    I agree with many of your points; smaller logistics bases would probably make more sense than some large naval bases in the traditional sense. But why would the Russian navy need to make regular trips to South America? To generate PR material for Hugo Chavez?

    No thanks, the Russian navy just doesn't have the numbers it used to - it makes sense to limit its areas of operation:

    - Arctic for establishing a safe playground for Russia's nuclear subs, ensuring clear skies for its strategic bombers and access to Arctic resources
    - Baltic for ensuring a guaranteed transit and supply route to Kaliningrad from the mainland, in case of a crisis with NATO and/or the EU
    - Black Sea, just because Russia can establish full military dominance there - it probably should; couldn't hurt as it borders several regions where Russia may have a conflict in the future.
    - Pacific Ocean, balancing Chinese, Japanese and American naval forces there, ensuring strategic deterrence with nuclear-tipped cruise missiles, maintaining a Russian presence in the region.

    And the Medditeranean, South China Sea and Indian Ocean for reasons already mentioned.

    Altogether - that nicely encompasses the continent of Asia and part of Europe - Russia will have its naval firepower protecting it from all sides and beyond.

    As you can see, Russia has enough priorities as it is. Heading out into Africa, South America, Australasia & the Southern Pacific Ocean, etc... would be nice for some occassional expeditions and task forces - but we won't have the numbers or resources to make it a regular thing anyway, so why bother with a base.

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    naval base

    Post  Pugnax on Sun Jun 03, 2012 7:06 pm

    Russia should move its naval base from Syria to Israel.A good change.

    GarryB
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    Re: Overseas Naval Bases

    Post  GarryB on Mon Jun 04, 2012 3:41 am

    You don't become a global power without a decent navy, and having bases in Cuba and Venezuela would be useful in terms of a Russian presence in the region.

    I am not talking major military facilities... just simple supply bases on the Atlantic and Pacific sides of Central and South America that allow Russian vessels a friendly port in the region.

    Who wouldn't want to join the navy and travel the world?

    A presence will promote cultural and economic contacts and connections.

    Politically it is also about telling the US that if Russia is not allowed a sphere of influence on her borders then it is a bit of a double standard to talk about Americas back yard.

    One of the complaints about Russian weapon sales is support and spares contracts... with a Russian presence in the region and a few spares and sales support depots set up in the region all of a sudden Helicopter and jet fighter engines no longer have to be shipped off for months at a time back to Russia to get repairs or upgrades or overhauls... you could do it in Peru, or Brazil or Mexico and to make it pay it could have the contract to service central and south america... which can only improve sales potential for Russian weapons.

    The US has artificially controlled who can have what in the region for a long time... it is ironic that the Russians are bringing freedom of choice...

    but we won't have the numbers or resources to make it a regular thing anyway, so why bother with a base.

    Because a base allows you to reach much further with much less. Having a base in far away places means it is easier to get to those far away places more often and all of a sudden they are not so far away.



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    Re: Overseas Naval Bases

    Post  GarryB on Fri Jun 08, 2012 7:47 am

    Have moved this thread to the Naval section as it fits here better than the Russian Army section.


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    Re: Overseas Naval Bases

    Post  Dima on Wed Jul 11, 2012 10:44 am

    Did anyone forget Iran?

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    Re: Overseas Naval Bases

    Post  GarryB on Thu Jul 12, 2012 7:40 am

    I think a Russian base in the Persian Gulf... especially if it can be supplied across the Caspian Sea and directly across Iran itself by rail from north to south to support it with man power and food and ammo etc etc so for instance a vessel operating off the coast of Africa on an anti piracy mission can go to a port in Iran to rearm and refuel and perhaps even swap crews... it would save a lot of money and importantly time if it did not have to travel through the Suez Canal and the Turkish Straights to the Black Sea Fleet base or even just through the Suez to Tartus in Syria.

    I think Iran would also benefit by having a Russian military base on their territory like Syria clearly has, and would equally benefit from any upgrades of the north south rail connections that allow traffic from north to south in the country that might be made by Russia.

    It would be fairly easy to transport material by boat across the Caspian and then by Train to a southern Iranian port for a Russian support and supply base.

    The Russians were talking about ship based nuclear power stations they were developing to expand into Siberia and even into the Pacific Islands where power grids don't exist and where a supply of electricity and fresh water would be useful... they could use such a vessel to perhaps develop ports in Southern Iran... perhaps they could create a mobile mooring type structure like the ones they set up in the Med, but plug them into the local infrastructure so the locals can use some of the power they are generating and some of the fresh water etc and of course locals could get jobs on the base and the local crew could buy local products and foods etc... then after a few years they could move to another port and do the same. That way instead of paying rent they could upgrade infrastructure in the various small ports in Southern Iran and work with the locals providing fresh water and stable electrical power.

    When it is time to move on the decision can be made as to whether it would benefit the region to buy a boat based nuclear power plant to continue to help the area grow, or whether a land based power station should be built to help continue the growth.


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    Re: Overseas Naval Bases

    Post  George1 on Thu Jul 12, 2012 7:50 am

    GarryB wrote:I think a Russian base in the Persian Gulf... especially if it can be supplied across the Caspian Sea and directly across Iran itself by rail from north to south to support it with man power and food and ammo etc etc so for instance a vessel operating off the coast of Africa on an anti piracy mission can go to a port in Iran to rearm and refuel and perhaps even swap crews... it would save a lot of money and importantly time if it did not have to travel through the Suez Canal and the Turkish Straights to the Black Sea Fleet base or even just through the Suez to Tartus in Syria.

    I think Iran would also benefit by having a Russian military base on their territory like Syria clearly has, and would equally benefit from any upgrades of the north south rail connections that allow traffic from north to south in the country that might be made by Russia.

    It would be fairly easy to transport material by boat across the Caspian and then by Train to a southern Iranian port for a Russian support and supply base.

    The Russians were talking about ship based nuclear power stations they were developing to expand into Siberia and even into the Pacific Islands where power grids don't exist and where a supply of electricity and fresh water would be useful... they could use such a vessel to perhaps develop ports in Southern Iran... perhaps they could create a mobile mooring type structure like the ones they set up in the Med, but plug them into the local infrastructure so the locals can use some of the power they are generating and some of the fresh water etc and of course locals could get jobs on the base and the local crew could buy local products and foods etc... then after a few years they could move to another port and do the same. That way instead of paying rent they could upgrade infrastructure in the various small ports in Southern Iran and work with the locals providing fresh water and stable electrical power.

    When it is time to move on the decision can be made as to whether it would benefit the region to buy a boat based nuclear power plant to continue to help the area grow, or whether a land based power station should be built to help continue the growth.

    Iranians are very nationalistic, it would be very complicated if a russian base stationed there, because this might create anti-imperilast sentiments from their people towrads Russia. In addition this will justify the development of more us bases in thata region so it will bring more problems. I think tha best choice is sokotra island of yemen (this base could cover red sea, indian ocean and is near persian gulf) but we must wait to see the developments in this very unstable country. There is a south yemen movement there that could result in secession of south yemen.

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    Re: Overseas Naval Bases

    Post  GarryB on Thu Jul 12, 2012 8:42 am

    There are already plenty of US bases in the region anyway... I rather doubt a Russian presence would make too much difference.

    Regarding Iranian fears, making the port infrastructure mobile will make it more flexible and reduce the fears that they might overstay their welcome.

    It also means that local infrastructure can be improved... particularly if they bring their own nuclear power stations based on ships that could be plugged into the local electricity network.

    As I mentioned above they plan to set up mobile settlements in the Russian Arctic based on ship based electricity generation, which will provide electricity and fresh water supplies for whatever facility it is based there to support, and using it to support the small Russian mobile base any excess fresh water and electricity can be provided to the local community. They might also do things like dredge out the local port to allow larger vessels to be serviced there and locals could be given jobs on the mobile base. When they leave they could perhaps upgrade the port facilities to allow continued increased use to benefit the local economy.

    That is all from the Iranian perspective a good thing. From the Russia perspective if food and ammo and replacement crews can be sent via ship across the Caspian Sea to an Iranian port and then delivered by train down south to the port... with perhaps extensions of the rail hub to make sure it gets all the way to each port they will be operating from it means the Russians can supply their ships without sailing back through the Suez Canal or the Turkish straights this will save weeks of sailing time and allow more time on station performing their mission.

    For the Iranians they get an infrastructure upgrade including new ports and rail hubs to improve transport, and in the places where the Russian units are operating they will have a reliable electricity supply and fresh water supplies... which is pretty rare in such regions I would guess.

    Improved relations with Russia will be good for Iran and for Russia.


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    Re: Overseas Naval Bases

    Post  Russian Patriot on Thu Jul 12, 2012 11:36 am

    Russian naval task force will perform combat training missions in the Atlantic, the Mediterranean and the Black Sea, the Defense Ministry said on Tuesday.

    The task force comprises warships from Russia’s Northern, Baltic and Black Sea Fleets, a ministry official told RIA Novosti.

    “The ships are headed toward the northern Atlantic,” he said.

    The task force is comprised of the Admiral Chabanenko Udaloy II class destroyer, the Alexander Otrakovsky, Georgy Pobedonosets and Kondopoga large amphibious assault ships, as well as the Nikolai Chiker and Sergei Osipov support vessels.

    The force will be joined in the northern Atlantic by a group of Baltic Fleet ships, including the Yaroslav Mudry frigate and the Lena tanker, he added.


    http://en.rian.ru/mlitary_news/20120710/174532018.html

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    Re: Overseas Naval Bases

    Post  George1 on Fri Jul 27, 2012 12:16 pm

    Russia negotiates naval bases in Cuba, Vietnam, Seychelles

    Russia is holding talks on obtaining naval bases in Cuba, Vietnam and Seychelles.

    This came in an interview with the RIA-Novosti news agency by the Commander-in-Chief of the Russian Navy, Viktor Chirkov.

    The Russian Navy saw that it badly needed foreign bases after 2008, when Russian naval ships began to patrol the Gulf of Aden as part of the anti-pirate mission in the area.

    Russia currently has two naval bases abroad, - in Syria’s Tartus, in the Mediterranean, and in Sevastopol, Ukraine, on the Black Sea.

    http://english.ruvr.ru/2012_07_27/Russia-negotiates-naval-bases-in-Cuba-Vietnam-and-on-Seychelles/

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    Re: Overseas Naval Bases

    Post  George1 on Fri Jul 27, 2012 12:17 pm

    Russia can use Kamran as materiel support base – Vietnam

    Vietnam is prepared to allow Russia to use its Kamran seaport as a materiel support base for Russian ships, but is not going to hand over parts of its territory to other countries so they could use them for their military bases.

    This came in an interview with the Voice of Russia radio station by President Truong Tan Sang of Vietnam.

    He pointed out that the two countries have long since embarked on cooperation and strategic partnership relations.

    So Russia will have strategic advantages in Kamran, including advantages to promote military cooperation, the Vietnamese leader said.

    The Commander-in-Chief of the Russian Navy Viktor Chirkov said earlier today that Russia is working through the issue of setting up materiel support bases in Cuba, Vietnam and on the Seychelles.

    http://english.ruvr.ru/2012_07_27/Russia-can-use-Kamran-as-materiel-support-base-Vietnam/

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    Re: Overseas Naval Bases

    Post  GarryB on Sat Jul 28, 2012 2:27 am

    Good news.

    Russia doesn't need foreign bases to spread Russian territory, what they need are refuelling and resupply and repair facilities.

    With land locked ports if the Russians want to send ships on visits to Cuba they have to come from the Northern Fleet, or Baltic fleet or Black Sea and through the Med, or from the Pacific Fleet and through the panama canal.

    These are all very long trips to make... even sending ships to India they need to send them either from the Pacific Fleet or the Black Sea Fleet which are not that short a trip. From the Black Sea fleet they can stop off in Syria on their way there and on the way back, but for Pacific Fleet ships it is a very long trip to get to the place where they are to operate to be followed by a long trip back.

    Having a base in Vietnam and or the Seychelles means they can spend more time on station doing their job and less time in transit. It means they are much more productive and voyages are easier to plan and manage.

    This is everything to do with having a global presence, and nothing to do with threatening anyone... except pirates.

    It will also give some countries more confidence in dealing with Russia.

    If the Seychelles say yes then it will probably because they want the income it will generate but also the effect it will have on piracy in the region.


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    Re: Overseas Naval Bases

    Post  TR1 on Sat Jul 28, 2012 3:07 am

    Indeed, this is a logical development. Continue building ties with Vietnam, and providing them with defense means.
    Also, for Vietnam, having Russian ships in their ports is a useful tool in stopping Chinese warships from being too adventurous.

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    Re: Overseas Naval Bases

    Post  GarryB on Sat Jul 28, 2012 3:27 am

    Personally I would rather see agreements to supply equipment and weapons rather than just paying rent for facilities.

    This will benefit Russia because it could use surplus equipment to "pay its way", but obviously they must be careful that the material supplied is actually of a useful standard and will be of use to the recipients.


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    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order

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    Re: Overseas Naval Bases

    Post  George1 on Sat Jul 28, 2012 11:03 pm

    http://english.ruvr.ru/2012_07_29/Russia-plans-no-naval-bases-in-Seychelles-Cuba-Lavrov/

    Russia has no plans to build naval bases in Seychelles and Cuba, Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said on Saturday.

    Lavrov said that Russian naval stations there were “out of question,” but ships of the Russian Navy, performing tasks all over the world, require support facilities to meet their basic needs.

    “Making a port call, replenishing supplies, giving the crew a rest is an absolutely natural need. We have discussed such possibilities with our Cuban friends,” he said.

    Τhe samy story again, first the announcement then the denial. What about also for borei commisioning till 29 of july?

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    Re: Overseas Naval Bases

    Post  GarryB on Sun Jul 29, 2012 12:33 am

    This is not an announcement and then a denial.

    There is a difference between a major Russian naval base in a foreign country and a small naval facility that allows vessels to come in for resupply of food and water and a place for the crew to take a break and for some minor maintainence to be performed.

    He is clearly trying to counter any notion in the press that the Russian Navy is expanding... basically what it is doing is it is like someone planning a trip overseas that is booking a few hotels in advance so when they go on their long trip they don't have to live out of their car... which if you have ever tried it is not the best and most comfortable thing to do.



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    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order

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    Re: Overseas Naval Bases

    Post  George1 on Wed Sep 05, 2012 11:11 pm

    Russia Sees No Need to Withdraw Naval Base from Syria

    Russian Navy's technical maintenance base in Syrian port Tartus operates as usual, there are no need to evacuate personnel and equipment, a spokesman of Russian General Staff told Interfax-AVN on Sept 4.

    "Indeed, deployment plan of the Russian Navy task force implied possible evacuation of Russian staff from Tartus. With this end in view, Russian landing ships called in Tartus early in Aug to refuel and replenish supplies. However, neither people nor equipment were taken aboard", said the interviewee.

    He specified that the plan was made for the case of aggravation in Syrian crisis. It was supposed to evacuate people, arms, documents, and valuable equipment to Novorossiysk. "The rest things were to be destroyed by a special-purpose team", the spokesman said.

    http://rusnavy.com/news/navy/index.php?ELEMENT_ID=15845

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    Re: Overseas Naval Bases

    Post  George1 on Fri Nov 09, 2012 12:48 am

    Russia, Vietnam Discuss Returning to Cam Ranh Naval Base

    Foundation of Russian Navy's repair base was discussed at the talks with Vietnamese leaders, said Russian Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev during his visit to Vietnam.

    According to Medvedev, "we did discuss establishment of Russian Navy's maintenance base in Cam Ranh. This issue is on agenda, we continue talks, Vietnamese partners are thinking on how to formalize this relationship. So, discussions on this subject will continue".

    As for Medvedev, "there are some definitely positive results in this matter".

    http://rusnavy.com/news/newsofday/index.php?ELEMENT_ID=16388

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    Re: Overseas Naval Bases

    Post  Cyberspec on Thu Nov 15, 2012 9:23 am

    Proposal to send combat helicopters to Djibouti to fight against pirates

    Central office of the Ministry of Defense and the Military Industrial Commission (MIC) is considering a plan to use in combat against the Somali pirates helicopters Ka-27 and Ka-29 as well as the latest Ka-52 "Alligator" . According to "Izvestia" a source in the Defense Ministry, the proposals on the subject in the near future will lie on a table new Minister Sergei Shoigu....

    http://www.russianhelicopters.aero/ru/press/publications/3810.html

    Reportedly, the idea is to test the future air wing of the Mistral's in real conditions

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    Re: Overseas Naval Bases

    Post  GarryB on Thu Nov 15, 2012 9:45 pm

    Cool.

    I think in the mid 1990s there was a game called Hokum where you directed a ship filled with about 6 different types of helos including Mi-8s and Lynx's and Cobras and of course Hokums. You basically sailed the ship through an island chain... I think it was near Indonesia, and fought mercenaries and pirates. you had a limited number of helos and had on board a limited amount of ordinance, but you could move your ship and the ship had a gun for self defence.

    Perhaps it is time for Hokum II?


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    Re: Overseas Naval Bases

    Post  Cyberspec on Fri Nov 16, 2012 2:26 am

    They would have to get French permission first (Djibouti being a French protectorate). Apparently they were positively inclined towards the earlier proposal to base a couple of Il-38's there. It also says, that Tu-142's sometimes patrol the area.

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    Russia starts formation of permanent Navy presence in Mediterranean

    Post  Palestinian on Tue Mar 19, 2013 2:23 am

    MOSCOW, March 11 (Xinhua) -- Russia has started preparations for the permanent presence of its fleet in Mediterranean, Commander of the Russian Navy said Monday.

    "The Defense Minister ordered us to create a large navy operative unit for permanent deployment in the Mediterranean Sea. We have started that work," Admiral Viktor Chirkov told reporters.

    He said the personnel have currently been trained for service in that region.

    Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu told an expanded session of the command of the Russian Armed Forces earlier Monday that the Russian Navy possessed all capabilities to form a workable squadron in the Mediterranean Sea.

    "We have every opportunity to establish and guarantee the functioning of such a formation. This is indisputably an indication of the positive developing signs of the Navy," the Interfax news agency quoted Shoigu as saying.

    http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/world/2013-03/11/c_132225737.htm

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    Re: Overseas Naval Bases

    Post  George1 on Thu May 22, 2014 10:29 pm

    Russia in talks to create naval support bases in Middle East

    The Russian Defense Ministry is in talks to create several naval re-supply and maintenance bases in the Middle East, Russian Deputy Foreign Minister Anatoly Antonov said in an interview with Kuwait's KUNA news agency on Monday.

    "We consistently develop our military cooperation with Middle East countries. Naturally, Russia is interested in having re-supply and maintenance bases for our navy in several states in the region. And we are engaged in talks on the issue with certain states," the agency quoted Antonov as saying.

    Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu said in February that Russia may create a network of bases abroad, in countries that include Vietnam, Cuba, Venezuela, Nicaragua, the Seychelles, and Singapore. Moscow currently has only one naval base outside the former Soviet Union in Tartus, Syria, but the fate of this naval facility is uncertain because of the ongoing civil war in that country. Post-Soviet Russia closed a large naval base in Vietnam and a radar base in Cuba in 2002 due to financial constraints.
    Read more: http://voiceofrussia.com/news/2014_05_19/Russia-in-talks-to-create-naval-support-bases-in-Middle-East-0136/

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    Re: Overseas Naval Bases

    Post  navyfield on Fri May 23, 2014 5:24 pm

    cyprus ,crete, montenegro???

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    Re: Overseas Naval Bases

    Post  George1 on Thu Nov 27, 2014 4:08 pm

    Russia, Vietnam agree on simplified Cam Ranh port entry for Russian warships

    MOSCOW, November 27. /TASS/. Russia and Vietnam have signed an intergovernmental agreement on the simplified entry of Russian warships to Vietnam’s Cam Ranh port, a source in the Russian Defense Ministry told TASS on Thursday.

    “The agreement was signed in Sochi on November 25 during the visit of Secretary General of the Central Committee of the Vietnamese Communist Party Nguyen Phu Trong to Russia. The procedure sets the requirement for Russian vessels that are approaching the Vietnamese port only to notify its authorities for entry,” said the source.

    Vietnam is the second country with which Russia has such an agreement. “Russia had signed a similar agreement many years ago with Syria on Russian Navy ships and vessels’ Tartus port entry. However, Russia has another agreement with Syria on the sustainment center of the Russian Navy in Tartus. Russia so far has no such agreement with Vietnam,” the source said. According to him, the document signing will be discussed at future bilateral negotiations.

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