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    P-500 Bazalt / P-1000 Vulcan

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    Russian Patriot

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    P-500 Bazalt / P-1000 Vulcan

    Post  Russian Patriot on Thu Aug 06, 2009 2:45 pm

    P-350 Bazalt 4K-77
    P-500 Bazalt 4K-80
    SS-N-12 Sandbox

    SS-N-12 Sandbox is a Russian supersonic speed cruise missile with a range of 550 km carrying a payload of 1,000 kg. While no photographs of the ‘Sandbox’ missile (4K80) have been released, drawings believed to originate with intelligence sources do permit a description of the missile. It has a cylindrical body whose front is slim with a sharply pointed nose. Two-thirds of the way along it bulges before tapering towards the rear. The missile is powered by a turbo-jet and there is a small air intake about halfway along the body. The missile is believed to use a solid propellant booster to clear the launcher and enter the cruising phase. There are two short, swept-back wings which are believed to be folded when the missile is in its launcher. A triangular vertical stabilizer is at the top of the missile behind the wings and there is another on the underside at the tail. Two short, swept-back fins are located at the rear of the missile forward of the rear stabilizer.

    The missile features command or inertial guidance with the option of mid-course updates. There is believed to be an active radar seeker for the terminal phase. The payload consisted of either a 1000 kg high explosive warhead or a 350 kT nuclear device, but the latter have now been removed. For Over-The-Horizon (OTH) targeting aircraft may also be used. These include the Tu-95 ‘Bear D’, the Ka-25 ‘Hormone B’ and the Ka-27 ‘Helix B’ with Big Bulge I/J-band radar.

    The P-350 Bazalt [industrial code 4K-77] was the successor to the P-35 Bazalt, which was started in 1963 and subsequently cancelled. It evolved into the P-500 Bazalt [industrial code 4K-80] which was the production version of the original P-350 Bazalt. Development work for the SS-N-12 Sandbox began in the mid-1960s probably as part of the Eighth Five Year Plan (1966-1970), was apparently completed in 1973. Production was probably authorized as part of the ninth Five Year Plan (1971-1976). Some 500 missiles were produced but production has now ceased.

    Developed to replace the SS-N-3 Shaddock anti- ship missile, it was initially deployed on the aircraft carrier Kiev in May 1975. The missile was later retrofitted into the ‘Echo II’ and ‘Juliet’ class submarines during the 1980s, replacing the SS-N-3. The ‘Juliet’ class is designated Cruise Missile Submarines in Soviet terminology.

    The Slava-class cruisers carry an advanced version with an improved sophisticated guidance system, an autopilot that can be programmed for mid-course maneuvers, and an enhanced engine. The P-700 Granat [SSN-19 Shipwreck] was developed as a more successful turbojet alternative to the SSN-12 Sandbox, from which it was derived.

    http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/russia/ss-n-12.htm
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    Stealthflanker

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    Re: P-500 Bazalt / P-1000 Vulcan

    Post  Stealthflanker on Fri Aug 07, 2009 2:19 am

    This Missile is very interesting.. for me at least

    In her body..she carries almost EVERYTHING.. not only Warhead.. but also Active RADAR Jammer and advanced computer system.. ..the warhead is 1 tons of HE or other system .. one hit=one ship

    this missile works with following tactics.. when launched in salvo there would be only one of them activating its RADAR seeker to search target..while others flying at low altitude.. receiving data from the leading missile and work in passive mode and then continue to destroy target.

    Russian Submarine usually carries 8 of these missiles in their launch tube, 2 of them has a Nuclear Warhead.


    anyway.. when i do some google search on Bazalt.. i was found a Missile with strange shape.. which doesn't look alike Bazalt we know so far

    BAZALT THAT I KNOW .. which resemble the P-35 Prgress




    This is the "strange Missile".. which labeled "4K-80 Bazalt" this missile is photographed aboard Kiev Class cruiser Minsk






    the missile above also feature ventral intake.. but not very visible



    so..what's that Missile ? ..from my perspective this thing look more aerodynamic than bazalt....i suspect that this Missile is actually P-1000 Vulkan.. a variant of Bazalt with 700 Km range
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    Vladimir79

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    Re: P-500 Bazalt / P-1000 Vulcan

    Post  Vladimir79 on Sat Aug 08, 2009 8:50 am

    Stealthflanker wrote:

    so..what's that Missile ? ..from my perspective this thing look more aerodynamic than bazalt....i suspect that this Missile is actually P-1000 Vulkan.. a variant of Bazalt with 700 Km range

    P-500 Bazalt...

    GRAU designation is 4K80.. it also says SS-N-12 on the side.
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    Stealthflanker

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    Re: P-500 Bazalt / P-1000 Vulcan

    Post  Stealthflanker on Sat Aug 08, 2009 10:46 am

    Vladimir79 wrote:
    Stealthflanker wrote:

    so..what's that Missile ? ..from my perspective this thing look more aerodynamic than bazalt....i suspect that this Missile is actually P-1000 Vulkan.. a variant of Bazalt with 700 Km range

    P-500 Bazalt...

    GRAU designation is 4K80.. it also says SS-N-12 on the side.

    oh so the first image in my post depicting missile with big ogival red nose cone.. is 4K-77 ?

    hm thanks.. Very Happy for answers
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    Vladimir79

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    Re: P-500 Bazalt / P-1000 Vulcan

    Post  Vladimir79 on Sat Aug 08, 2009 3:16 pm

    Stealthflanker wrote:

    oh so the first image in my post depicting missile with big ogival red nose cone.. is 4K-77 ?

    The first picture is a training round of the P-6, probably converted for target practice.
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    GarryB

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    Re: P-500 Bazalt / P-1000 Vulcan

    Post  GarryB on Mon Jul 19, 2010 11:21 pm

    This pdf is the best I have found covering the interesting range of Soviet anti ship missiles.

    www.dtig.org/docs/Russian-Soviet%20Naval%20Missiles.pdf

    With lots of drawings etc.
    This picture that you post:
    http://illiweb.com/fa/pbucket.gif
    the file is named Bazalt and the missile in the picture has Bazalt written on its nose.
    The pictured missile is clearly a dummy with the long thin nose protruding from the body the flat surface where they connect would likely in my opinion be the natural place to put an air intake for a jet engine with an under body scoop to add airflow when needed.
    None of the drawings in the PDF file above resemble the above missile.
    This website contains lots of nice photos of Soviet and Russian missiles... unfortunately for me my nephew came to stay for the school holidays and his constant playing of world of warcraft has used up my broadband for the month so I am at dial up speed for a week or two, which is tough to deal with pages like this:
    http://www.ausairpower.net/APA-Rus-Cruise-Missiles.html
    with lots of photos.
    Perhaps this model was for disinformation?


    Last edited by GarryB on Mon Jul 19, 2010 11:29 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : link to pdf broken)
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    Viktor

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    Re: P-500 Bazalt / P-1000 Vulcan

    Post  Viktor on Sun Aug 22, 2010 9:52 am

    Its interesting that modernized Slava class did not receive Onyx missile but Vulcan. Both are great buy its specs but Oynx should be smaller meaning much tighter packed.
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    GarryB

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    Re: P-500 Bazalt / P-1000 Vulcan

    Post  GarryB on Sun Aug 22, 2010 9:12 pm

    I think Vulkan is a closer match to the previous missile in size and performance.
    Newer platforms would more likely get Onyx, but the older ships that carried older missiles it makes sense to use up the Vulkans in storage and then later if the ships are still in use convert them to carry two or three times as many Onyx missiles.

    This is my opinion only.

    Robert.V

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    Re: P-500 Bazalt / P-1000 Vulcan

    Post  Robert.V on Mon Aug 23, 2010 10:01 am

    You're opinion is correct though vulkan is closer related to Bazalt then Granit.


    Its interesting that modernized Slava class did not receive Onyx missile but Vulcan. Both are great buy its specs but Oynx should be smaller meaning much tighter packed.

    Onyx was meant for Destroyers and Frigates, putting them as the main armament on Cruisers would be a waste of that Cruisers potential.
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    GarryB

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    Re: P-500 Bazalt / P-1000 Vulcan

    Post  GarryB on Mon Aug 23, 2010 10:19 pm

    There are sort of family lines in large Soviet anti ship missiles.

    The Onyx comes from the line of the Moskit or SS-N-22 Sunburn, and its export model is the Yakhont and the BrahMos is a joint Indian Russian upgrade of the weapon.
    The original Onyx actually added some of the features of Granit in the sense of the swarm program attack method, which actually suited it better because it was a smaller missile that should be able to be used in large numbers without making a sub the size of the Oscar class.

    The heavier missiles seem to stop at Vulkan.

    I would expect they are working on hypersonic missiles with scram-jet propulsion and that such weapons will not be small so retaining vessels like Typhoon and Kirov class vessels might offer large platforms for their use, but who knows, they might go for stealthy too or instead of. With Club and various other systems available and the new model Uran with a 240km range they will have plenty of options.
    A high flying hypersonic cruise missile will deal with flight time issues and defensibility issues in one go, but it really depends on how hard it is to get a reliable efficient scram-jet running.

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    Re: P-500 Bazalt / P-1000 Vulcan

    Post  Robert.V on Tue Aug 24, 2010 8:54 am

    You mean at Granit. russia
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    GarryB

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    Re: P-500 Bazalt / P-1000 Vulcan

    Post  GarryB on Tue Aug 24, 2010 10:16 am

    Well technically the Vulkan didn't start development till 1979 and while it needed its launch platform to surface to fire it, it still had all the sophisticated features of Granit including titanium armour and more efficient turbojet propulsion and it was probably faster than Granit too.

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    Re: P-500 Bazalt / P-1000 Vulcan

    Post  Robert.V on Tue Aug 24, 2010 3:36 pm

    Yeah, I believe mach 2.7 some sources say mach 2.9. For it's size the Granit is really an underwhelming missile to be honest.
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    GarryB

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    Re: P-500 Bazalt / P-1000 Vulcan

    Post  GarryB on Tue Aug 24, 2010 8:18 pm

    It is easy to get high performance in western missiles because their warheads are tiny.
    Granit carries a huge warhead designed to cripple a reasonably sized ship and it also carries armour to protect itself in those last few seconds within Phalanx range before impact.
    Add to that the energy cost required to carry a large warhead a long distance at such an enormous speed at low level and its size is explained... remember fighter aircraft are limited to about mach 1.3 or so and missiles like Sidewinder have ranges of about 4-6km at low altitude due to reduced speed and high drag.

    In fact it is the poor performance of missiles at low altitudes that led to the Soviet and Russian practise of fitting IR seekers to BVR missiles on their fighters.
    From a high altitude high speed launch an R-27E model AAM can hit a target that is 80kms away at the time of launch. At low altitude that figure is more like 20kms... which sounds bad till you realise that for a Sidewinder class missile can barely reach a quarter of that at low altitude.
    Of course the other reason was that BVR IR guided weapons complimented radar homing weapons of all types. A closing target can be fired upon from long range with a radar homing missile but a receding target is hard to get a lock on and so lock on range for a radar homing missile is much shorter. For an IR guided weapon a receding target is showing its engine exhausts and it is the ideal lock on angle for an IR missile... the only problem is that small IR guided missiles lack the legs to chase down a target heading away from you so BVR IR missiles are ideal.

    Robert.V

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    Re: P-500 Bazalt / P-1000 Vulcan

    Post  Robert.V on Tue Aug 24, 2010 8:23 pm

    I'm comparing it more to the vulcan Garry. Which has heavier warhead and longer range.
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    GarryB

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    Re: P-500 Bazalt / P-1000 Vulcan

    Post  GarryB on Wed Aug 25, 2010 4:46 am

    There is really nothing else in service with other navies that is like it whether bigger or smaller.
    It is pretty much the peak of turbojet powered antiship missiles and likely to remain that way.
    The next gen had ramjets and the next will likely have scramjet propulsion.

    Regarding the Granit there are few other missiles around with warheads bigger than 900kgs filled with aluminium powder for incendiary effect.

    Submariners used to pour scorn on antiship missiles in general by suggesting that a torpedo lets water in the bottom of a ship while a missile lets air in the top.

    Granit lets fire in to the top and rearranges the decks too.
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    TR1

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    Re: P-500 Bazalt / P-1000 Vulcan

    Post  TR1 on Sun Sep 22, 2013 3:56 pm



    Supposedly the mighty Vulkan.

    Austin

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    Re: P-500 Bazalt / P-1000 Vulcan

    Post  Austin on Mon Sep 23, 2013 1:10 am

    TR1 , whats key specs about Vulcan , is it better than Shipwreck ?
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    Stealthflanker

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    Re: P-500 Bazalt / P-1000 Vulcan

    Post  Stealthflanker on Mon Sep 23, 2013 10:29 pm

    TR1 wrote:

    Supposedly the mighty Vulkan.
    Hmm not really sure.. the wings are swept instead of delta..those could be P-35 "Progress"/"Redut"


    This is the P-500 or P-1000



    Both missiles..I heard very similar in appearance but differs internally.
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    TR1

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    Supposedly the mighty Vulkan.

    Post  TR1 on Mon Sep 23, 2013 10:41 pm

    Austin wrote:TR1 , whats key specs about Vulcan , is it better than Shipwreck ?
    Hard to say, it is a secret missile, but it is just a better Bazalt.

    Shipwreck probably has some fundamentally better characteristics, being a newer design.

    nastle77

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    Re: P-500 Bazalt / P-1000 Vulcan

    Post  nastle77 on Mon Jul 27, 2015 6:47 pm

    Does anybody know how many ECHO II class submarines were designed to carry the SSN-12 Sandbox missile ?
    Most internet sources say 9 or 10

    Does anybody have a reference for that ?

    Cucumber Khan

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    Re: P-500 Bazalt / P-1000 Vulcan

    Post  Cucumber Khan on Tue Jul 28, 2015 2:39 am

    nastle77 wrote:Does anybody know how many ECHO II class submarines were designed to carry the SSN-12 Sandbox missile ?
    Most internet sources say 9 or 10

    Does anybody have a reference for that ?

    Certainly. Check here:
    http://www.deepstorm.ru/DeepStorm.files/45-92/nsrs/675mk/list.htm

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