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    Project 949A: Oscar-II

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    TR1
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    Re: Project 949A: Oscar-II

    Post  TR1 on Thu Dec 05, 2013 8:57 pm

    Come to think of it, this might either make Zvezda or they will completely miss project dates.

    Zvezdochka has been the one doing repairs on Anteiis, and I expected them to get the order for 2nd round of modernization.
    Zvezda will very much benefit from the cash injection, but they have had all sorts of issues with much simpler state orders.

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    Re: Project 949A: Oscar-II

    Post  George1 on Thu Dec 05, 2013 11:45 pm

    TR1 wrote:
    George1 wrote:
    Viktor wrote:12 years of waiting, "Irkutsk"

    - K-132 Irkutsk is going for modernization
    - 360 million $ (price)
    - will be replaced (missile system, radio and sonar weaponary, navigation equipment, life support systems)
    which will be the new missile system?
    Onix! In greater numbers than Granit...I am curious when the domestic range numbers come out, we know it is greater than 300km, but by how much...
    Αnd this will be applied in all Oscars?

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    Re: Project 949A: Oscar-II

    Post  GarryB on Fri Dec 06, 2013 8:07 am

    Onyx in its domestic form is supposed to have a similar range to the missile it is replacing... ie Granit.

    Granit has a range of 500km and I have seen estimates of onyx's range of between 500km and 700km depending on the flight profile and speed... remember the Onyx uses a ramjet, while Granit uses a turbojet. This means that both missiles can fly high but not at top speed for the first part of the flight to extend range and then accelerate on full throttle as they approach the target (and their fuel load is lighter).


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    Re: Project 949A: Oscar-II

    Post  TR1 on Fri Dec 06, 2013 9:47 am

    George1 wrote:
    TR1 wrote:
    George1 wrote:
    Viktor wrote:12 years of waiting, "Irkutsk"

    - K-132 Irkutsk is going for modernization
    - 360 million $ (price)
    - will be replaced (missile system, radio and sonar weaponary, navigation equipment, life support systems)
    which will be the new missile system?
    Onix! In greater numbers than Granit...I am curious when the domestic range numbers come out, we know it is greater than 300km, but by how much...
    Αnd this will be applied in all Oscars?
    Supposedly, but we will see....

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    Re: Project 949A: Oscar-II

    Post  TR1 on Tue Dec 10, 2013 12:08 pm

    http://www.wrk.ru/forums/attachment.php?item=363886&download=2&type=.jpg

    Baton in base Very Happy

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    Re: Project 949A: Oscar-II

    Post  Viktor on Tue Dec 10, 2013 4:04 pm

    Whats is the name of this Oscar class - where is this?

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    Re: Project 949A: Oscar-II

    Post  TR1 on Tue Dec 10, 2013 4:59 pm

    Pacific Fleet - not sure what boat. Could be the Kransoyarsk, which is at pier waiting utilization.

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    Re: Project 949A: Oscar-II

    Post  Viktor on Tue Dec 10, 2013 9:28 pm

    All in all, Russia will end up with 8 Oscar class and few more of the Oscar class are unfinished and might add to numbers even further. 

    Submarine "Smolensk" passes mooring trials at the "star"

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    Re: Project 949A: Oscar-II

    Post  TR1 on Tue Dec 10, 2013 9:40 pm

    Belgorod will be completed, but not as a combat sub. We can forget about the other unfinished hulks, they are not Belgorod shape anyways.

    I am curious how many boats the MOD ends up modernizing with new armament in the end. I suspect it won't be the entire fleet, but at least 5 boats.
    With dual purpose 885s entering service (eventually) and modernized 971s getting Kalibr there won't be as much pressure to save the entire dedicated SSGN fleet.

    At the end of the day the limiting factor will be finances as always, and they will have to do some juggling between what to modernize, more 971s or 949s. Entire fleets of both being modernized is pretty much impossible IMO.

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    Re: Project 949A: Oscar-II

    Post  Viktor on Wed Dec 11, 2013 3:54 pm

    TR1 wrote:Belgorod will be completed, but not as a combat sub. We can forget about the other unfinished hulks, they are not Belgorod shape anyways. 

    I know but it would be interesting if Russia could get a similar contract with other two unfinished Oscar class like it had with India and Akula sub as they are powerful subs or perhaps 

    they may decide to finish the boats in case situation with Yassen class continues to drag on. 

    TR1 wrote:I am curious how many boats the MOD ends up modernizing with new armament in the end. I suspect it won't be the entire fleet, but at least 5 boats. 
    With dual purpose 885s entering service (eventually) and modernized 971s getting Kalibr there won't be as much pressure to save the entire dedicated SSGN fleet. 

    Im counting on 8 of them  Very Happy  by 2020 and latter who knows. 

    TR1 wrote:At the end of the day the limiting factor will be finances as always, and they will have to do some juggling between what to modernize, more 971s or 949s. Entire fleets of both being modernized is pretty much impossible IMO.

    700 bin $ is a lot of money. Economy will play its part but still Russian military has set very ambitious goals ahead of them. 


    Anyway: Another powerful unit will soon join in the Russian Navy

    Rogozin: APL "Tomsk" returns to the fleet in April 2014

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    Re: Project 949A: Oscar-II

    Post  Viktor on Tue Dec 24, 2013 7:45 pm

    Apparently this was repair and modernization (new missiles) this boat will get in 3.5 years.  cheers 


    Works on submarines "Smolensk"  (now waiting for Tomsk)




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    Re: Project 949A: Oscar-II

    Post  TR1 on Tue Dec 24, 2013 10:21 pm

    Tomsk is in the Pacific, at Zvezda...which of course opens up questions on whether it will be done in time or miss it like always.

    Zvezodochka will be working on the Orel after the Smolensk (Orel has already arrived @ the yard). This will be the yard's third 949A, Voronezh being the 1st; so I think their deadlines are pretty much solid at this point.

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    Re: Project 949A: Oscar-II

    Post  TR1 on Mon Dec 30, 2013 3:56 pm

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pDxxreCYgrA

    Nice high res vid by Zvezdochka.

    The Smolensk is back baby!

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    Re: Project 949A: Oscar-II

    Post  George1 on Mon Dec 30, 2013 4:23 pm

    TR1 wrote:Tomsk is in the Pacific, at Zvezda...which of course opens up questions on whether it will be done in time or miss it like always.

    Zvezodochka will be working on the Orel after the Smolensk (Orel has already arrived @ the yard). This will be the yard's third 949A, Voronezh being the 1st; so I think their deadlines are pretty much solid at this point.

    what about Irkutsk and Chelyabinsk??

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    Re: Project 949A: Oscar-II

    Post  TR1 on Mon Dec 30, 2013 4:39 pm

    Wrong fleet Wink .

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    Re: Project 949A: Oscar-II

    Post  TR1 on Mon Jun 09, 2014 1:38 am

    http://kuleshovoleg.livejournal.com/300790.html

    Some rare photos of a 949A practicing rescue operations.

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    Re: Project 949A: Oscar-II

    Post  Viktor on Tue Jun 10, 2014 9:23 am

    TR1 wrote:http://kuleshovoleg.livejournal.com/300790.html

    Some rare photos of a 949A practicing rescue operations.

    Look at the skin. I dont remember seeing such perfectly smooth skin on Russian subs  thumbsup 

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    Re: Project 949A: Oscar-II

    Post  Cyberspec on Tue Jun 10, 2014 12:57 pm

    It's the Smolensk, fresh from overhaul

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    Re: Project 949A: Oscar-II

    Post  GarryB on Wed Jun 11, 2014 11:00 am

    Perfectly smooth skin is not so important for hydrodynamics (moving through water).

    In fact what the skin is made of is rather more important to a sub and in most cases a Russian or Soviet sub has a thick rubberised material on its surface designed to absorb noise to reduce its ability to reflect a sonar ping and to reduce radiated noise from inside the vessel.


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    Re: Project 949A: Oscar-II

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Wed Jun 11, 2014 11:21 am

    GarryB wrote:Perfectly smooth skin is not so important for hydrodynamics (moving through water).

    Actually that's quite an accurate observation on your part, case-in-point Sharks are some of the most hydrodynamic efficient fish within Earth oceans, and shark's skin is made of tiny teeth making shark skin like sand paper that actually makes sharks like the Mako Shark more hydrodynamic efficient:

    Speedy sharkskin

    Tiny, toothlike bumps boost sharks’ swiftness




    Slicing through the water at speeds exceeding 45 miles per hour (72 kph), the shortfin mako shark is one of the fastest fish in the sea. A team of Harvard biologists has made a surprising discovery about what feature gives the mako, like all other sharks, its incredible swiftness — its sandpapery skin.

    It may look sleek and smooth, but a shark’s skin is actually rough. That’s because sharkskin is covered with millions of microscopic, toothlike bumps called denticles.  Scientists have long recognized that denticles help reduce drag. Drag is a force in the direction opposite to an animal’s movement. Drag slows an animal down.

    Water is hundreds of times denser than air, and this, in part, explains the greater drag objects moving through water experience compared to objects moving through air. You can experience this difference by waving your hand in the air, and then waving your hand in a tub full of water. Denticles help minimize drag by changing the way water flows over a shark’s body.

    But the new study by Johannes Oeffner and George V. Lauder shows that the rough surface of sharkskin also increases thrust. Thrust is a force in the direction an animal is moving, and it helps swimming and flying animals overcome drag.

    “Sharkskin denticles seem to provide a clever boost,” explains Lauder. This increase in thrust due to skin may help push sharks even more quickly through the water, he and Oeffner say.

    Their experiments show that denticles generate tiny swirls around a shark’s body as it wriggles in the water. This creates a small suction effect — the thrust — that helps drive the fish’s body forward.

    Importantly, the Harvard team’s tests investigated how sharkskin performs when attached to a stiff plate, as well as when attached to a piece of flexible material. The flexible material mimics the actual motion of a shark’s skin — and its millions of denticles — as the fish swims. It was only when studying the flexible sharkskin that the scientists discovered the role of denticles in generating thrust.

    Denticles have other helpful properties, too. Unlike whales, sea turtles and many other large animals that live in the ocean, sharks rarely have barnacles, algae or other sea creatures attached to and living on the surface of their skin. How do sharks stay so clean?

    Scientists suggest that at the microscopic level, denticles make the surface of sharkskin too rough and uneven for other organisms to attach to it. It’s a property some medical device manufacturers have adopted: Medical equipment with a sharkskin-like surface slows or stops bacterial growth, which could help reduce the spread of bacterial infections. That’s an important factor in settings like hospitals and doctors’ offices.

    Sharkskin-like coatings also help to keep boats free of marine algae and other clingy organisms.

    But one thing sharkskin-inspired materials probably don’t do is improve the speed of a human swimmer. In their experiments, the scientists found that sharkskin-like features woven into the high-tech suits worn by competitive swimmers offer the fabric no performance advantage. That doesn’t mean the swimsuits don’t offer swimmers a competitive edge; it just means other aspects of the suits, such as the compression they provide, probably explain their performance.

    https://student.societyforscience.org/article/speedy-sharkskin

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    Re: Project 949A: Oscar-II

    Post  Morpheus Eberhardt on Wed Jun 11, 2014 12:37 pm

    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    GarryB wrote:Perfectly smooth skin is not so important for hydrodynamics (moving through water).

    Actually that's quite an accurate observation on your part, case-in-point Sharks are some of the most hydrodynamic efficient fish within Earth oceans, and shark's skin is made of tiny teeth making shark skin like sand paper that actually makes sharks like the Mako Shark more hydrodynamic efficient:

    Speedy sharkskin

    Tiny, toothlike bumps boost sharks’ swiftness




    Slicing through the water at speeds exceeding 45 miles per hour (72 kph), the shortfin mako shark is one of the fastest fish in the sea. A team of Harvard biologists has made a surprising discovery about what feature gives the mako, like all other sharks, its incredible swiftness — its sandpapery skin.

    It may look sleek and smooth, but a shark’s skin is actually rough. That’s because sharkskin is covered with millions of microscopic, toothlike bumps called denticles.  Scientists have long recognized that denticles help reduce drag. Drag is a force in the direction opposite to an animal’s movement. Drag slows an animal down.

    Water is hundreds of times denser than air, and this, in part, explains the greater drag objects moving through water experience compared to objects moving through air. You can experience this difference by waving your hand in the air, and then waving your hand in a tub full of water. Denticles help minimize drag by changing the way water flows over a shark’s body.

    But the new study by Johannes Oeffner and George V. Lauder shows that the rough surface of sharkskin also increases thrust. Thrust is a force in the direction an animal is moving, and it helps swimming and flying animals overcome drag.

    “Sharkskin denticles seem to provide a clever boost,” explains Lauder. This increase in thrust due to skin may help push sharks even more quickly through the water, he and Oeffner say.

    Their experiments show that denticles generate tiny swirls around a shark’s body as it wriggles in the water. This creates a small suction effect — the thrust — that helps drive the fish’s body forward.

    Importantly, the Harvard team’s tests investigated how sharkskin performs when attached to a stiff plate, as well as when attached to a piece of flexible material. The flexible material mimics the actual motion of a shark’s skin — and its millions of denticles — as the fish swims. It was only when studying the flexible sharkskin that the scientists discovered the role of denticles in generating thrust.

    Denticles have other helpful properties, too. Unlike whales, sea turtles and many other large animals that live in the ocean, sharks rarely have barnacles, algae or other sea creatures attached to and living on the surface of their skin. How do sharks stay so clean?

    Scientists suggest that at the microscopic level, denticles make the surface of sharkskin too rough and uneven for other organisms to attach to it. It’s a property some medical device manufacturers have adopted: Medical equipment with a sharkskin-like surface slows or stops bacterial growth, which could help reduce the spread of bacterial infections. That’s an important factor in settings like hospitals and doctors’ offices.

    Sharkskin-like coatings also help to keep boats free of marine algae and other clingy organisms.

    But one thing sharkskin-inspired materials probably don’t do is improve the speed of a human swimmer. In their experiments, the scientists found that sharkskin-like features woven into the high-tech suits worn by competitive swimmers offer the fabric no performance advantage. That doesn’t mean the swimsuits don’t offer swimmers a competitive edge; it just means other aspects of the suits, such as the compression they provide, probably explain their performance.

    https://student.societyforscience.org/article/speedy-sharkskin

    These are called riblets. Russians have been using them in all kind of aerodynamic and hydrodynamic applications.

    Now after 45 years of the announcements about the Russians' use of artificial riblets in their aeronautical applications, some people from Harvard discover them, but those from Harvard still don't know even the English name for those structure—just like Harvard. Laughing Sad

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    Re: Project 949A: Oscar-II

    Post  GarryB on Wed Jun 11, 2014 2:25 pm

    Well Golfers have known about such things for a while... the dimples on a golf ball have the same effect of making the air attach itself to the surface of the ball better.

    A perfectly smooth golf ball the air leaves the surface at the sides so the area of drag the ball generates is the full width of the ball.

    With dimples the air attaches to the surface of the ball and travels around the ball so the area of drag is reduced which means for a given flight speed a ball with dimples will travel further because it has less drag and will be slowed down less by the air. A bit like setting a world speed sprint record on a treadmill... without having to push air out of your way as you run because you are not moving forward it is much easier to run at very high speed on a treadmill.


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    Re: Project 949A: Oscar-II

    Post  TR1 on Tue Jul 01, 2014 11:01 pm



    Orel in dock.

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    Re: Project 949A: Oscar-II

    Post  Viktor on Thu Jul 03, 2014 12:50 am

    WoW  thumbsup 

    - K-442 "Chelyabinsk"
    - "Tver" (Head 649) or "Omsk" (Head 651)



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    Re: Project 949A: Oscar-II

    Post  Mike E on Thu Jul 03, 2014 2:33 am

    Man, those Oscars really are beauties!

    Does any one know what will replace them? They were specifically built to destroy carrier groups, and Russia doesn't seem to have a replacement in the works. I guess they could do to a Borei what the US did to the "Tomahawk Ohios".

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