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    Project 949A: Oscar-II

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    gaurav
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    Re: Project 949A: Oscar-II

    Post  gaurav on Thu Oct 13, 2016 6:39 pm

    hoom wrote:Really? I thought that was pretty much the major point of the Yasens?

    Well I also dunno what missiles are placed on yasen. I also initially thought UKSK launchers were being placed on yasen.
    But times have changed .. after reading media reports

    See I only said that there is no credible information that suggests Yasen will have UKSK.
    I think severodvinsk sub has UKSK .. but the program for yasen-M does not include UKSK launchers.

    Till now we have not seen any discrete information about the weapon system of yasen-m. We know that Borei subs have bulava missiles.
    This is clear cut info. But what weapons are been installed into yasen-m that is anybodys guess atleast right now.

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    Re: Project 949A: Oscar-II

    Post  PapaDragon on Thu Oct 13, 2016 9:51 pm

    gaurav wrote:..........

    8.Recently Russia completed building 3-4 project 636 submarines all fitted with 8 tubes/1 container of UKSK. This information is reliable.A new contract for pacific fleet has been signed recently for Project 636 submarines.These submarines are all fitted with UKSK launchers. This is reliable information.


    I don't think that 636 Kilo subs have UKSK launchers. UKSK would mean that they have vertical launch cells. They can launch cruise missiles but that is done trough torpedo tubes.


    hoom wrote:I thought it's fairly well established that 3* UKSK tubes can fit inside a Granit tube -> 24* Granit tubes = 72* UKSK tubes.
    Also that missiles have been tested with inclined launchers.

    I think that this is correct and I read something similar already. 3 cruise missiles per Granit tube using adapters. There will be no removal of Granit launchers or installation of UKSK launchers on Oscars/Anteis.

    Also you guys are conflating acronym UKSK with cruise missiles. UKSK refers to type of missile launcher not the missiles that are launched from them.


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    Re: Project 949A: Oscar-II

    Post  GarryB on Fri Oct 14, 2016 3:12 am

    UKSK is a standard missile launcher for the Russian Navy.


    Why not fit it to existing submarines?

    The upgrades for Kirov all mention 10 UKSK for a total of 80 missiles... they already have Granit launchers... why replace Granit launchers in the Kirovs with UKSK bins and not do the same with the Oscar class SSGNs?

    A tube that can launch an Onyx will also launch a Kalibr and a Klub and soon a Zircon.


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    Re: Project 949A: Oscar-II

    Post  PapaDragon on Fri Oct 14, 2016 3:25 am

    GarryB wrote:UKSK is a standard missile launcher for the Russian Navy.


    Why not fit it to existing submarines?

    The upgrades for Kirov all mention 10 UKSK for a total of 80 missiles... they already have Granit launchers... why replace Granit launchers in the Kirovs with UKSK bins and not do the same with the Oscar class SSGNs?

    A tube that can launch an Onyx will also launch a Kalibr and a Klub and soon a Zircon.

    Replacing launch tubes on ship and submarine are two very different things. Keeping launchers on subs saves huge amounts of time and money without any noticeable downsides. They will still pack a mighty punch.

    As for Oscars they are higher priority vessels for RU Navy than cruisers (all subs are) so they want them back in the action faster.

    Also Granit launcher with adapter should be able to launch all three types of missiles. There is no difference in launch procedure between them.

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    Re: Project 949A: Oscar-II

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Sat Oct 15, 2016 1:27 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    GarryB wrote:UKSK is a standard missile launcher for the Russian Navy.


    Why not fit it to existing submarines?

    The upgrades for Kirov all mention 10 UKSK for a total of 80 missiles... they already have Granit launchers... why replace Granit launchers in the Kirovs with UKSK bins and not do the same with the Oscar class SSGNs?

    A tube that can launch an Onyx will also launch a Kalibr and a Klub and soon a Zircon.

    Replacing launch tubes on ship and submarine are two very different things. Keeping launchers on subs saves huge amounts of time and money without any noticeable downsides. They will still pack a mighty punch.

    As for Oscars they are higher priority vessels for RU Navy than cruisers (all subs are) so they want them back in the action faster.

    Also Granit launcher with adapter should be able to launch all three types of missiles. There is no difference in launch procedure between them.

    72 missiles salvo should deal with whole AC group...

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    Re: Project 949A: Oscar-II

    Post  A1RMAN on Sat Oct 15, 2016 1:47 pm

    GunshipDemocracy wrote:

    72 missiles salvo should deal with whole AC group...

    AC group with zero AM capability?

    gaurav
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    Re: Project 949A: Oscar-II

    Post  gaurav on Sun Oct 16, 2016 8:20 pm

    GarryB wrote:UKSK is a standard missile launcher for the Russian Navy.


    Why not fit it to existing submarines?

    The upgrades for Kirov all mention 10 UKSK for a total of 80 missiles... they already have Granit launchers... why replace Granit launchers in the Kirovs with UKSK bins and not do the same with the Oscar class SSGNs?


    1. There are only 2 Kirovs planned for Russian navy. Petr and Nakhimov.Ther are no more Kirovs in Russian navy. I do not think Kirov class is/(will be upgraded) using UKSK launchers.Do yu think that Kuznetsov will have Granit launchers replaced by UKSK launchers. Kuz will never have Granit launcher removed.That is the best guess from my side.
    Russian industry does not support adpaters. I dont think there are any adapters for Granit launchers. At the most it will be for testing mode not for actual deployment.Adapter is a media hype.It is also some experiments carriedd out by various Russian companies at the most ..nothing more.
    If the users have more information they can obviously comment on this adapter trials for Granit launchers.

    2. When do we thnk that Nakhimov will start firing trials after all its equipment trials are over. It will not be before 2020 -2022 .. Kazan sub is the only sub which will start firing trials soon Possibly by end of 2017. I suggest Patience be better than valor pirat
    Yasen-m is much bigger project than Kirov class. Hence we should wait fro these Yasen-M trials and then conclude as what Russian navy is
    standard weapons are . UKSK is also a standard launcher but it is used only in small ships, corvettes.

    I don't think that 636 Kilo subs have UKSK launchers. UKSK would mean that they have vertical launch cells. They can launch cruise missiles but that is done through torpedo tubes.

    Correct Indeed. I do not have specs for latest project 636 subs but it looks like you are correct on this.

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    Re: Project 949A: Oscar-II

    Post  George1 on Mon Oct 17, 2016 12:38 pm

    Russian Northern Fleet sub launches cruise missile at target in Novaya Zemlya

    MOSCOW, October 17. /TASS/. The Smolensk nuclear-powered submarine of Russia’s Northern Fleet has launched a cruise missile at a target in the Novaya Zemlya archipelago, in the Arctic, the Northern Fleet’s spokesman Vadim Serga has said.

    "The missile was launched on October 16 against a combined coastal target. The Granit cruise missile was fired from a surface position in high latitudes of the Barents Sea. For the first time ever the missile was used against a combination of targets deep inside the Severny (Northern) island of the Novaya Zemlya archipelago," he said.

    The missile launch was part of the final series of combat training exercises due in 2016, Serga said, adding that the crew displayed "professionalism and high level of training."

    All in all Russia has built eleven submarines of project 949A Antey. At the moment eight are on active duty. The Antey’s displacement is 24,000 tonnes. Each carries 24 launchers for Granit cruise missiles and six torpedo tubes.


    More:
    http://tass.com/defense/906870


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    Re: Project 949A: Oscar-II

    Post  Isos on Mon Oct 17, 2016 1:52 pm

    George1 wrote:Russian Northern Fleet sub launches cruise missile at target in Novaya Zemlya

    MOSCOW, October 17. /TASS/. The Smolensk nuclear-powered submarine of Russia’s Northern Fleet has launched a cruise missile at a target in the Novaya Zemlya archipelago, in the Arctic, the Northern Fleet’s spokesman Vadim Serga has said.

    "The missile was launched on October 16 against a combined coastal target. The Granit cruise missile was fired from a surface position in high latitudes of the Barents Sea. For the first time ever the missile was used against a combination of targets deep inside the Severny (Northern) island of the Novaya Zemlya archipelago," he said.

    The missile launch was part of the final series of combat training exercises due in 2016, Serga said, adding that the crew displayed "professionalism and high level of training."

    All in all Russia has built eleven submarines of project 949A Antey. At the moment eight are on active duty. The Antey’s displacement is 24,000 tonnes. Each carries 24 launchers for Granit cruise missiles and six torpedo tubes.


    More:
    http://tass.com/defense/906870

    It's a test of the second capability of the granit, nuclear strike against costal target ? I have never heard of land attack capabilities with HE warhead.

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    Re: Project 949A: Oscar-II

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Mon Oct 17, 2016 2:57 pm

    A1RMAN wrote:
    GunshipDemocracy wrote:

    72 missiles salvo should deal with whole AC group...

    AC group with zero AM capability?


    With 72 supersonic missiles AC group can deal? Really?

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    Re: Project 949A: Oscar-II

    Post  PapaDragon on Mon Oct 17, 2016 3:02 pm

    gaurav wrote:.............
    Yasen-m is much bigger project than Kirov class. Hence we should wait fro these Yasen-M trials and then conclude as what Russian navy is
    standard weapons are . UKSK is also a standard launcher but it is used only in small ships, corvettes.
    .............

    Thing is we have seen satellite pictures of Nakhimonov with Granit launchers already cut out and orders for UKSK launchers for it have been published a while back.

    And as for Yasen subs, one of the reasons entire class was reworked was probably to add UKSK launchers. Standardization is huge priority for RU Navy so it is very unlikely that they would skip entire class of nuke subs. Also let's not forget that Granit missiles are not really fresh product.

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    Re: Project 949A: Oscar-II

    Post  A1RMAN on Mon Oct 17, 2016 3:58 pm

    GunshipDemocracy wrote:
    A1RMAN wrote:
    GunshipDemocracy wrote:

    72 missiles salvo should deal with whole AC group...

    AC group with zero AM capability?


    With 72 supersonic missiles AC group can deal? Really?

    I think it can. This is completely hypothetical because we don't know the real capabilities of their AM systems and actual missiles. But AC group can be pretty big - with a lot of planes and AA ships - and to sink, let's say 20 ships, is a huge task. With conventional warheads, of course.

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    Re: Project 949A: Oscar-II

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Mon Oct 17, 2016 4:23 pm

    A1RMAN wrote:
    GunshipDemocracy wrote:
    A1RMAN wrote:
    GunshipDemocracy wrote:

    72 missiles salvo should deal with whole AC group...

    AC group with zero AM capability?


    With 72 supersonic missiles AC group can deal? Really?

    I think it can. This is completely hypothetical because we don't know the real capabilities of their AM systems and actual missiles. But AC group can be pretty big - with a lot of planes and AA ships - and to sink, let's say 20 ships, is a huge task. With conventional warheads, of course.

    Well you nerer wondered why Yasens can carry only 32 missiles max? number is puled from the thin air? They are designed as AC hunters, similar to 949 boats.

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    Re: Project 949A: Oscar-II

    Post  gaurav on Tue Oct 18, 2016 3:33 am

    PapaDragon wrote:Thing is we have seen satellite pictures of Nakhimonov with Granit launchers already cut out and orders for UKSK launchers for it have been published a while back.

    Thats correct. Russian navy desperately needs standardizing its launch tubes.Only then the speed of maufacuring of subs/ships can be increased.
    I would also like to point out one thing in the yesterdays missile test. The Russian media is all famous for providing twisted unclear
    reports. This kind of reporting is habitual so that western inteligence does not understand the true meaning of the tests.

    See the words..
    "The missile was launched on October 16 against a combined coastal target. The Granit cruise missile was fired from a surface position in high latitudes of the Barents Sea. For the first time ever the missile was used against a combination of targets deep inside the Severny (Northern) island of the Novaya Zemlya archipelago," he said.

    1. The news itself is almost crypted in nature.
    2. Combination of targets. Novaya zemlya has large mountain ranges. This is not a simple granit missile it is multi warhead missile. The speed may be slow but this was definitely a multi warhead missile.What version of granit has multiwarhead it is difficult to tell.But there are atleast 3 different versions. This is the same launcher as in Kuz AC group which is dispatched to Syria.

    3. It hit a group of targets ..how many targets. Each warhead hit a separated target .Target spacing maybe 10 kms or even 100's of kms.
    we need more definite reporting as to how come these missiles are becoming the standard set of russian weapons. pr 949 is very old project sub which is now getting these kind of missiles. Unless we have more definite information regarding some more tests we will not be able to conclude on this scenario.

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    Re: Project 949A: Oscar-II

    Post  Viktor on Tue Nov 15, 2016 9:12 pm

    Orel is back thumbsup

    http://www.vpk-news.ru/news/32770

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