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    VVS Russian Air Force: News #1

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    GarryB
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    Re: VVS Russian Air Force: News #1

    Post  GarryB on Fri Aug 12, 2011 10:17 am

    I agree, I think a lot of roles will be taken over by UAVs, and I also think a few new aircraft will be revealed over the next few years... the A-100 has been mentioned as the replacement for the A-50, though the A-50 has been given a modest upgrade too.

    A lot of aircraft will simply be worn out because they have endured a long period without proper maintainence and upgrades.
    I would expect there are a few Mi8s and Mi24s that are practically falling apart, but quite a few aircraft were put in storage... and though lots of parts might have been taken for keeping in service aircraft going, or simply been pinched, that doesn't really matter as most of their components would be completely replaced in an upgrade anyway.
    It is the hours on the airframe that is what counts and lack of fuel and aircraft in storage should have led to a few airframes that would be ideal for upgrades and being returned to service as a cheaper alternative to simply being stored further or expanding capacity for new aircraft.

    The problem with expanding capacity for new planes is that once the Russian AF has enough what are you going to do with that expanded production capacity?

    Production capacity has to increase from what it is now, but it is important to get it right or you might end up with too much production capacity and nothing to make.

    I am not suggesting everything gets a complete and expensive upgrade, but for example if you look at the Mi-35M export version of the Hind that incorporates a lot of technology and equipment from the Mi-28N it makes the older aircraft more capable, increases the production numbers for new components which should reduce their cost and ease maintainence problems. An upgraded Hind is cheaper to pay for than a brand new Mi-28N.

    A lot of the changes can be done during routine maintainence and overhauls.

    Obviously any airframes to old to bother maintaining will not be upgraded and can be replaced first by new airframes, but numbers I have seen talk about up to 100 Su-35s and 30 odd Mig-35s, thanks to the Algerian Migs they have Mig-29SMTs in service and they are probably electronically their most capable fighter aircraft. Spending a little more money they could apply that upgrade to another 150 Migs and change a force from mediocre to OK without spending much more than they should already be spending on maintainence.

    Remember the SMT upgrade reduces maintainence costs and flight costs of the Mig-29 by about 40% so after 2-3 years they will have saved more money than it cost them.

    A similar upgrade for the Flankers could see 150-200 Flankers get an SM upgrade which would at least leave most of the fleet able to fire R-77 and other post cold war new weapons.

    Regarding the Mig-31... I would have thought the Russian AF would not have all that large a number of Mig-31s... I would have thought they would have gone to the PVO and now Space and Air Defence units... and I think they would make the Mig-31 upgrade a priority.

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    Re: VVS Russian Air Force: News #1

    Post  Vladimir79 on Fri Aug 12, 2011 12:02 pm

    Corrosion wrote:

    These are about 1100 in number. It will be a very difficult job to upgrade most of these or replace these 1 for 1. I am sure we will see more quality than quantity in VVS in future.

    It is less than 1000 now and over half of them are unavailable. VVS is on the level of something like France in operational numbers... without the technology. If China was to come crossing that border now, we would be in hella trouble. We need 1000 new fighters yesterday.

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    Re: VVS Russian Air Force: News #1

    Post  Corrosion on Fri Aug 12, 2011 2:05 pm

    GarryB

    I agree about 100 Su35 will give a lot of teeth to VVS. And when you add PAK-FA into equation, whose number will eventually go to 200+, Add upgraded Su-27SM and Mig29SMT and that is 400-500 air dominance fighters. A very capable air force. Only thing is that PAK-FA must succeed. I personally think they should stop making any more Flanker versions and concentrate on Su-34, Su-35, Pakfa and upgrading older ones, not sure about Mig-35, instead Mig can work on 5th gen small fighter or even a UCAV.

    I personally think when Indian AF Mig29UPG deal was signed Russia could have offered or India could have asked as well, some of Russian Mig29 for IAF, which were in similar condition to IAF Mig29(airframe usage wise). They could have signed a deal to acquire second hand Russian Mig29 cheaply and paid in full for the upgrade, exact same amount that IAF is paying per airframe for bringing Indian Mig29 to UPG standard. I don't think Russia is going to find much use for many of its Mig29 airframes .

    It would have been a win win situation for each side. Russia would have got more extra funds to apply upgrades to its own Mig29 planes and India could have raised is squadron strength which is a real worry we have in my country. 60 planes would have got IAF 3 squadrons with infrastructure, tactics, maintainable and pilots which is already there. The only problem I think which stopped Indian side from acquiring more Mig29 is bad rep Mig(not sukhoi) has in India in general. After all Mig29UPG can do almost any thing an Mirage2000 upgrade can do and India is paying about 40 milion plus per airframe for upgrade only for its mirages and it doesn't exceed the level of 29UPG.

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    Re: VVS Russian Air Force: News #1

    Post  Pervius on Fri Aug 12, 2011 5:19 pm

    Corrosion wrote:GarryB

    instead Mig can work on 5th gen small fighter or even a UCAV.


    www.ntv.ru/novosti/115567/video/

    That Mig UCAV was made 5 years ago. Must be refined by now.

    It would be neat if that UCAV could take off with a Tupolev TU-95...then TU-95 releases refueling hose from rear, UCAV hooks up to it and gets towed to where it's needed. Gets released when near target airspace..spy...then come back and hook up for the tow home. It's light, simple fuel hose could tow it. Only modification to TU-95 is reel with hose in tail. Could have guy in tail of a TU-95 with a funnel and fuel can to pour down hose to save development costs.

    Or is this what they've been doing all along?

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    Re: VVS Russian Air Force: News #1

    Post  GarryB on Sat Aug 13, 2011 3:16 am

    I agree about 100 Su35 will give a lot of teeth to VVS. And when you add PAK-FA into equation, whose number will eventually go to 200+, Add upgraded Su-27SM and Mig29SMT and that is 400-500 air dominance fighters. A very capable air force. Only thing is that PAK-FA must succeed. I personally think they should stop making any more Flanker versions and concentrate on Su-34, Su-35, Pakfa and upgrading older ones, not sure about Mig-35, instead Mig can work on 5th gen small fighter or even a UCAV.

    Practise building Mig-35s will be good for the production aspect of MIG, this aircraft incorporates new 5th gen stuff they are likely also working on for their 5th gen fighter.
    More importantly they have production capacity whereas the makers of Flankers are also the makers of T-50s and will be very busy over the next few years sorting out both aircraft.

    There is likely a few finishing touches needed for the Mig-35 too and it offers a potential cheaper alternative for countries operating Mig-29s than a T-50 till a light 5th gen can be designed and built.

    AFAIK the SKAT was shown because development was terminated and that is the only reason it was revealed... to get external support and funding. I believe Mig and Sukhoi are now working within the structure of the UAC that they are both part of to develop a new UCAV.

    Now that the prototypes of the T-50 are flying and that program is going ahead well it seems, they might start looking at a light 5th gen fighter as a numbers fighter for Russia and as a primary fighter for smaller countries.

    I personally think when Indian AF Mig29UPG deal was signed Russia could have offered or India could have asked as well, some of Russian Mig29 for IAF, which were in similar condition to IAF Mig29(airframe usage wise). They could have signed a deal to acquire second hand Russian Mig29 cheaply and paid in full for the upgrade, exact same amount that IAF is paying per airframe for bringing Indian Mig29 to UPG standard. I don't think Russia is going to find much use for many of its Mig29 airframes .

    I think the problem so far is that Sukhoi has too much political power. The SMT upgrade in its basic form is a modest upgrade that greatly reduces the operational costs of owning and using Mig-29s. It doesn't surprise me that European countries within NATO weren't interested because their bias means they wanted to get F-16s as soon as possible anyway as a political gesture, but for the Russians and Indians I think they looked at the upgrade and thought it looked nice but there was no point in making the Mig-29 a multirole fighter able to use air to ground guided weapons when they operate in interceptor units that will never use half the new capabilities.
    The problem is that the upgrade includes all sorts of self testing and equipment monitoring systems and the new equipment is easier to service and support it becomes much cheaper to fly and operate than a standard Mig.
    The Mig-29SMT aircraft Algeria rejected are currently the most sophisticated and capable fighters in the Russian AF inventory. One of the cheapest SMT upgrades doesn't even replace the radar, it simply modifies it to allow new weapons to be used.

    Russia is never going to be able to afford more than 200 odd PAK FAs, so a lighter 5th gen fighter is needed. Mig would be ideal to make that fighter as long as it remains a viable company. If it has no orders and no work it will not remain a viable company.
    Besides their production capacity would be useful to add to the capacity of all the Sukhoi factories... some of which are busy with the Superjet civilian aircraft.

    The only problem I think which stopped Indian side from acquiring more Mig29 is bad rep Mig(not sukhoi) has in India in general.

    I think MIG need to work on their customer service, but when there are no domestic orders for 20 years it is not easy to keep customers happy. Half their problem was that they were trying to sell Mig-29s during a period when air forces were getting rid of extra aircraft.
    I can understand Mig not offering the best customer service when India goes to Eastern Europe to buy cheap parts and support equipment for their Migs. Problem is when these parts turn out to be fake.
    Several sales of Migs to customers from Air Forces getting rid of airframes seemed to save money but when it came time to buy spare parts the air forces in question wanted to sell airframes, they didn't want to sell their supply of spare parts which they were keeping for their remaining aircraft or simply didn't have in the first place and that is why they were selling the air frames.
    Mig suddenly becomes the bad guy when it refuses to sell parts for planes it didn't supply?

    There is probably more money to be made in spares and support than selling the aircraft in the first place. Spares and support rarely includes offsets etc so it is more profitable.

    That Mig UCAV was made 5 years ago. Must be refined by now.

    As far as I know the SKAT is a dead program. It was a Mig program while Sukhoi had its own UCAV program. It seems they compared notes or both ideas were tested and Sukhois product was deemed better. The Skat was revealed to see if there was any international interest or funding... which apparently there wasn't, so Mig dropped the program and joined Sukhois program to develop their UCAV.

    There is a stealthy UCAV program, but it is something we haven't seen yet and with both companies working on it it should be quite good.

    From memory the SKAT was to have a flight speed of 800km/h and a flight radius of 2,000km and a 3 ton payload.

    The idea of towing UCAVs behind strategic bombers is interesting, they could be sent ahead to deal with any still active air defences... but I think in smaller conflicts it should already have the range capacity to reach most targets, where its stealth design should allow it to operate at medium and high altitude where it can fly faster and further than would be possible at low level.

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    'Glissada-M' Laser Landing System

    Post  Cyberspec on Fri Sep 02, 2011 5:05 am

    A promising new Russian LLS has won the gold medal in Geneva back in May this year. Although a civilian system it does obviously have a potential military application...

    Kurumoch Airport has been awarded a Gold Medal at the
    39th International Exhibition of Inventions in Geneva for its Glissada-M laser landing system

    http://uwww.aero/en/news/26.05.2011/2863/

    A prototype glidepath laser landing system called Glissada-M was introduced at the 39th International Exhibition of Inventions in Geneva that took place from 6th to 10th April 2011, by the Innovative-Investment Fund of the Samara Region. This system developed by Kurumoch Airport in partnership with ZAO Glissada and ZAO Kantegir (Saratov) has been awarded a Gold Medal and Diploma at this prestigious event.

    The representatives of 45 countries from all continents participated at the exhibition in Geneva this April with more than one thousand innovations. But only some of them won Gold Medals, one of the highest accolades of this event. Among them was Kurumoch International Airport.

    Note:

    Glissada-M is a brand new unique system that, in addition to the existing modern airfield lighting systems, helps approaching aircraft complete a safe landing with zero-zero visibility, meeting Meteorological Minimum Category II and III conditions. Flight safety being the most important criterion here.

    By now, the Glissada-M laser landing system has been successfully tested in visual and adverse weather conditions on aerodromes in Samara and Saratov but also in the Russian airbase Novolazarevskaya in Antarctica.

    Certification of Glissada-M is now the final required step to introducing the system in Russia on aerodromes and at airports that are not equipped with lights that help indicate the approach.


    there's more info from a Russian article (fragments translated)

    - At the Samara airport tested an innovative system of landing aircraft. Accuracy of landing - 50 centimeters

    ...

    - The system has been tested in Antarctica during the polar night, where a IL-76 has successfully carried out a precision night landing.

    The LLS has been tested in Antarctica at the station "Novolazarevskaya". The continent does not contain any fixed airfield. For a few months during the polar night, Antarctica remains without an air service. Test pilot Ruben Yesayan became the first in the world, who landed a heavy IL-76 in the Antarctic night.

    "Visibility has deteriorated to less than 2000 meters. But we clearly saw the rays and landed on them. At this airport there are no special systems, we came in to land only by those rays, "- said the test pilot of the State Institute of Civil Aviation Ruben Yesayan.

    ...

    - Three laser beams in 'T' shape guide the aircraft to the runway. The rays are visible at night and in bad weather (mist and torrential rain and blizzards)




    Airports from Denmark, France, Austria, Czech Republic have shown interest in the system. However, at least 3 years of tests are expected before it's certified as commercial product.

    Source: http://www.nanonewsnet.ru/articles/2011/v-samare-sazhayut-samolety-s-pomoshchyu-lazerov



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    Re: VVS Russian Air Force: News #1

    Post  GarryB on Fri Sep 02, 2011 10:35 am

    The Soviets had a fully automatic landing system for their Kiev class carriers for the Yak-38 and Yak-38M.
    Don't think it used lasers though, but was described by western observers as being "rock solid".


    Saw a technology update on RT the other day and it showed a laser system for use at airports that detects wind speed and direction.

    The system itself looked like a 152mm artillery shell but with the top cut flat with an optics window in the top and it fires a laser up into the clouds and measures the effect wind has on the lasers. It replaces a 20-30m tall tower that is covered in wind speed and direction sensors and seems to be very accurate.

    The future for airports seems to be lots of lasers... Smile

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    Russia Revives Production of Flarecraft

    Post  Russian Patriot on Fri Jan 27, 2012 7:23 pm

    Russia Revives Production of Flarecraft



    Russia’s Federal Border Guard Service is planning to build a center for the production of flarecraft to improve protection of the country’s maritime borders.

    Russian media cited a government source on Friday saying that the center will be built at the former Avangard shipyard in the northern city of Petrozavodsk.

    Flarecraft, also referred to as wing-in-ground effect (WIGE) vehicles or by the Russian term ekranoplan, are vehicles that fly near the surface of the Earth due to the ground effect created by the aerodynamic interaction of the wings and the surface.

    At present, the Orion-20 flarecraft is being built in Petrozavodsk. It will serve as a testing platform for engines, navigation equipment and control and safety systems of the future vehicles.

    The Central Hydrofoil Design Bureau (CHDB) was the center of flarecraft development in the Soviet Union.

    The Soviet ekranoplan program produced a variety of military and civilian flarecraft, including the 125-ton A-90 Orlyonok.

    The Orlyonok ekranoplans were originally developed as high-speed military transports, and were usually based on the shores of the Caspian Sea and Black Sea.

    A few Orlyonoks served with the Soviet Navy from 1979 to 1992. In 1987, a 400-ton Lun class ekranoplan was built as a missile launcher.Since the dissolution of the Soviet Union, small-size ekranoplans have been produced by the Volga Shipyard in Nizhniy Novgorod but mass production has been folded due to a shortage of funds and lack of demand.

    The Russian Defense Ministry has not shown interest in military flarecraft and the financing of their production has not been included in the state armament procurement program until 2020.

    However, Border Guard Service officials believe that ekranoplans may prove effective in the protection of shipping routes in the Arctic and Russian borders along major rivers, such as the Amur and Danube.

    http://www.en.ria.ru/mlitary_news/20120127/170987800.html

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    Re: VVS Russian Air Force: News #1

    Post  GarryB on Fri Jan 27, 2012 10:30 pm

    When I first saw this post my initial thought was that they have introduced an aircraft specifically designed to release flares at night for night operations...

    It is good that the Ekranoplans are going to be used... they are certainly an interesting idea, though they are not likely to replace all ships and aircraft.

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    Re: VVS Russian Air Force: News #1

    Post  Bthebrave on Sat Feb 04, 2012 12:31 am

    Now that is some very good news, -if it will be realized-. Air power is very important to me. And Mother Russia, unlike the US is perfectly capable of producing some excellent off-the-shelf fighter aircraft. Don't you just instantly fall in love with the Su-35BM? Equipmentwise, the Russian Air Force would be more then perfectly served with this bird. Sukhoi is soooo number one.

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    Re: VVS Russian Air Force: News #1

    Post  GarryB on Sat Feb 04, 2012 2:33 am

    Personally I have gone through a bit of a roller coaster regarding the looks of Russian and Soviet fighters...

    I loved the WWII models... especially the La-5FN and La-11, but also the Mig-3 and Yak-9.

    With their post war models there was a tendency for winged tubes like the Mig-21 and Su-9 and Su-11 and Su-17 and at the time I got a little bored with the shapes, though I loved the Mig-25 shape, the other tube places seemed a little boring.

    Then in the Mig-23 and then Mig-29 and Su-27 were revealed and it was so exciting because they were so different.

    Even today I love the lines of the newer aircraft, but have started to appreciate the older tube planes too, plus of course the odd fighters like the Su-15 and the Tu-128...

    I am beginning to warm to their drive for high technology everywhere and hope it expands into a national thing where technology spreads beyond the boundaries of Moscow and into the small villages. I am talking about green technology like solar power and wind power generation.

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    Re: VVS Russian Air Force: News #1

    Post  Bthebrave on Sun Feb 12, 2012 2:00 am


    I'm not really in to ancient tech. I'm in love with Su-35Sexy. Dear Santa.....

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    Re: VVS Russian Air Force: News #1

    Post  GarryB on Sun Feb 12, 2012 9:48 am

    I think part of my interest in old tech is to appreciate how far we have come in such a short time.

    I mean really... if you think about it... the first fixed wing aircraft to fly in 1900 or so, and then leaving the earths atmosphere less than one human lifetime later to stand on the moon...

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    Re: VVS Russian Air Force: News #1

    Post  Bthebrave on Sun Feb 12, 2012 3:17 pm

    GarryB wrote:I think part of my interest in old tech is to appreciate how far we have come in such a short time.

    I mean really... if you think about it... the first fixed wing aircraft to fly in 1900 or so, and then leaving the earths atmosphere less than one human lifetime later to stand on the moon...

    Around 70 years isn't exactly a short time in military terms Very Happy

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    Re: VVS Russian Air Force: News #1

    Post  GarryB on Mon Feb 13, 2012 2:59 am

    Just another example of development.

    How many thousands of years was the short sword and the bow state of the art...

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    Re: VVS Russian Air Force: News #1

    Post  George1 on Wed Feb 15, 2012 5:10 pm

    Kubinka training center is a combat base or just demonstration airfield?

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    Re: VVS Russian Air Force: News #1

    Post  Russian Patriot on Thu Feb 16, 2012 2:22 am

    George1 wrote:Kubinka training center is a combat base or just demonstration airfield?

    both actually depending on circumstances....

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    Re: VVS Russian Air Force: News #1

    Post  GarryB on Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:12 am

    That is good news, especially regarding the hydroplanes.

    Hopefully they will order a dozen of so and deploy some to the Caspian and Black Sea Fleets too.

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    Interview with Air Chief Zelin

    Post  Austin on Fri Mar 16, 2012 5:35 pm

    Nice Long Interview with Russian Airforce Chief Zelin

    http://www.aviaport.ru/digest/2012/03/16/231415.html

    Now I am waiting for some one to translate the key features of interview in english accurately


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    Re: VVS Russian Air Force: News #1

    Post  Austin on Fri Mar 16, 2012 5:36 pm

    So 140 Su-34 and 100 Su-35 confirmed , Su-30SM will be used to train Su-35 pilots.

    60 PAK-FA by 2020

    2 squadron of Su-24 in service. 100 Mig-31BM in service upgraded , RuAF has 320 Mig-31.

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    Re: VVS Russian Air Force: News #1

    Post  GarryB on Fri Mar 16, 2012 11:37 pm

    Anything about the Mig-35 he asked hopefully... Smile

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    Re: VVS Russian Air Force: News #1

    Post  GarryB on Sat Mar 17, 2012 12:40 am

    The General Staff has put us to task for those troops who are in a battle of the Armed Forces need to have planes to transport heavy brigades, medium and light. Easy to instantly anywhere in the country or abroad, in connection with our international obligations to solve their problems. In what way? Only by using military transport aircraft.

    This is interesting...

    With Armata in the 50 ton class the new An-124s should be able to carry 3 vehicles each, so it will take quite a few to carry the whole Heavy Brigade.

    With a light brigade of course they might all fit into one or two An-124s...

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    Re: VVS Russian Air Force: News #1

    Post  George1 on Sat Mar 17, 2012 2:50 am

    Su-30SM only for training? such a multirole fighter?

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    Re: VVS Russian Air Force: News #1

    Post  TR1 on Sat Mar 17, 2012 3:55 am

    George1 wrote:Su-30SM only for training? such a multirole fighter?
    Not just training of course.

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    Re: VVS Russian Air Force: News #1

    Post  GarryB on Sat Mar 17, 2012 5:18 am

    It will likely be used as an operational trainer like the Su-27UB was.

    The Su-27UB had a fully functioning radar and full operational systems and could be used as a trainer and as a fighter/multirole aircraft because the guy in the back seat to do stuff and free up the pilot to enable more complicated tasks be performed.

    The Su-27UB was so useful they sold it as the Su-30.

    In contrast the Mig-29UB two seat trainer only had a basic radar fitted and could not use radar guided weapons and was pretty much just an advanced trainer, though it still had its IRST and could use a wide range of IR guided AAMs and TV and IR guided air to ground missiles and bombs.

    The new Mig-35 is based around the two seat MIg-29M2 which has a standard front section and canopy for either single seat or two seat layout with full radar and other systems.

    They are handy for training and other uses.

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