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    VVS Russian Air Force: News #1

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    George1
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    Re: VVS Russian Air Force: News #1

    Post  George1 on Mon May 07, 2012 3:53 pm

    By the way, grey will be the standard color for VVS helicopters?

    TR1
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    Re: VVS Russian Air Force: News #1

    Post  TR1 on Fri May 11, 2012 9:31 pm

    http://jury-tver.livejournal.com/66105.html#cutid1

    Some excellent close up of Mi-28N.

    TheArmenian
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    Re: VVS Russian Air Force: News #1

    Post  TheArmenian on Fri May 11, 2012 9:46 pm

    Excellent close-ups indeed. Thanks for posting.
    I am more inclined towards the Ka-52. But these Close-ups of the Mi-28 are very convincing.

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    Re: VVS Russian Air Force: News #1

    Post  GarryB on Sat May 12, 2012 2:58 am

    Nice pics.

    I am looking forward to seeing what the Mi-28M looks like however... will have to wait for that.

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    Re: VVS Russian Air Force: News #1

    Post  TR1 on Sat May 12, 2012 4:25 am

    http://www.mycity-military.com/imgs2/153591_148458572_____________026-1_120.jpg
    http://www.mycity-military.com/imgs2/153591_190875275_____________030_192.jpg
    http://www.mycity-military.com/imgs2/153591_167003244_____________010_119.jpg

    Some heavily armed Flankers, date unknown.

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    Re: VVS Russian Air Force: News #1

    Post  GarryB on Sat May 12, 2012 5:03 am

    Thanks for posting... those look like live rounds with proper IR sensors and no black stripes to indicate training rounds.

    I would add that amongst the photos for the Mi-28N was this photo:



    You can see from the ports that the two outer side ports have the same optics which I suspect to provide stereo vision located at the nose of the aircraft.


    The upper port is not transparent to visible light and is likely the port for the thermal imager, so the lower two ports will be laser target marker/range finder, and the laser sensor port. One port will emit a laser beam and the other port will detect reflections from that beam for the purposes of range finding, or detect the reflections of another laser target marker when another platform is marking a target.

    This EO ball is for the pilot so having a stereo external view of the aircraft would be very valuable because it is like his head is attached to the front of the helo with a fully unobstructed view... he will be able to see what is directly below the aircraft without the cockpit or front gunner getting in his way.

    The main problem is that if there is a delay the pilot will get motion sickness like you can get sometimes playing some 3D computer games... or if you watch someone else play...

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    Re: VVS Russian Air Force: News #1

    Post  GarryB on Sat May 12, 2012 5:07 am

    BTW It was my understanding that the fin tip dielectric panels on the Flankers along with the nose were painted white for VVS aircraft and dark green for PVO birds.

    These day you tend to see a mix of colours so it is not an indicator now but I suspect if you do see a fully armed Russian fighter these days will will be a PVO bird waiting for a VKO launch command, or responding to one.

    medo
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    Re: VVS Russian Air Force: News #1

    Post  medo on Sat May 12, 2012 12:08 pm

    TR1 wrote:http://jury-tver.livejournal.com/66105.html#cutid1

    Some excellent close up of Mi-28N.

    Excellent photos indeed. But I personally more like fully equipped Ka-52 with 6 underwing hard points. I find it interesting, that you could see only pilots heads in Mi-28 cabin, so crew is really well protected with body armor and bullet proof glass. I don't think Apache or Tiger crew is so well protected.

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    Re: VVS Russian Air Force: News #1

    Post  TR1 on Sat May 12, 2012 11:11 pm

    Tiger has barely any protection at all, so let's not even bring it into the discussion. Wink

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    Re: VVS Russian Air Force: News #1

    Post  GarryB on Sat May 12, 2012 11:24 pm

    There is a video on Youtube somewhere of testing of the Mi-28 and they are firing at the side canopy rather than the front windshield (the sides are usually weaker than the front).

    The gun they are using is a KPV from about 10-15 metres.

    For those not familiar with the KPV, it is a 14.5 x 114mm HMG with twice the muzzle energy of a US 50 cal weapon.
    The shots make the windows no longer transparent, but they don't penetrate the window... which is pretty amazing as the 14.5mm round is an anti tank round designed from the outset to penetrate armour.

    Have heard reports of even small arms fire (ie 30 cal) penetrating the large side canopies of the Apache as a comparison.

    The Mi-28 is designed based on experience in Afghanistan in the 1980s.

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    Re: VVS Russian Air Force: News #1

    Post  medo on Sun May 13, 2012 10:46 am

    TR1 wrote:Tiger has barely any protection at all, so let's not even bring it into the discussion. Wink

    Tiger's protection is more in its electronics than in armor plates. In electronic protection Ka-52 is in pair with most modern western helicopters. Mi-28 doesn't have MAWS and DIRCM yet on the other hand Ka-52 doesn't have that strong armor.

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    Re: VVS Russian Air Force: News #1

    Post  TR1 on Sun May 13, 2012 10:54 am

    IMO Ka-52 surpasses any western attack helo in terms of electronic protection, with its brand new DIRCM set.
    It also has better payload, armor, (performance?), just a beast all around.

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    Re: VVS Russian Air Force: News #1

    Post  GarryB on Mon May 14, 2012 10:14 am

    Both the Russian helos have decent armour protection.

    Regarding the Tiger... electronics alone make the helo lighter and cheaper to buy and operate, but much more dangerous to use as electronics wont stop small arms fire and RPGs.

    Even a hovering helo is vulnerable to an ATGM... and new ATGMs like Kornet EM are optimised to deal with aircraft as well as vehicles...

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    Re: VVS Russian Air Force: News #1

    Post  medo on Thu May 17, 2012 3:39 pm



    Interesting new Tu-214. Anyone know more about it? It seems to have large SLAR antennas.

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    Re: VVS Russian Air Force: News #1

    Post  Viktor on Thu May 17, 2012 5:57 pm

    medo wrote:Interesting new Tu-214. Anyone know more about it? It seems to have large SLAR antennas.

    IL-38 May replacement.

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    Re: VVS Russian Air Force: News #1

    Post  George1 on Thu May 17, 2012 6:42 pm

    Russia to Field New Ground Attack Jet

    The Russian Air Force will start receiving new ground attack aircraft based on the Sukhoi Su-25SM Frogfoot combat jets by 2020, Col. Gen. Alexander Zelin said on Thursday.

    “This new type of a ground attack aircraft has been included in the state arms procurement program,” Zelin, who is an aide to the defense minister, told a news conference in Voronezh (central Russia). “It will be put in service with the Air Force by 2020.”

    The new aircraft will be capable of carrying of a wide range of tactical weaponry and advanced radar and navigation equipment.

    It will feature elements of stealth technology and will be able to land on short runways.


    The new combat jet will eventually replace the modernized Su-25SM attack aircraft now entering service.

    Russia will continue to upgrade its outdated to the Su-25SM version, which has a significantly better survivability and combat effectiveness than earlier versions.

    The Russian Air Force currently has over 30 Su-25SM planes in service and plans to modernize about 80 Su-25s by 2020.

    Meanwhile, the Russian military has abandoned plans to develop a light attack plane based on Yak-130 combat trainer.

    Zelin said the prototype, dubbed Yak-131, had not met the requirements for enhansed protection of pilots.

    http://en.rian.ru/mlitary_news/20120517/173508923.html

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    Re: VVS Russian Air Force: News #1

    Post  GarryB on Fri May 18, 2012 2:58 am

    So they are adapting the Su-25 design to make it more stealthy, but not actually stealthy.

    In other words think of Mig-35 to the Mig-29 rather than F-117.

    They will nip and tuck all the major radar reflection surfaces and redesign a few bits and pieces, but I rather suspect spending a lot of money to make it "stealthy" to radar is a waste of money.

    I suspect they might change propulsion to something that does not attract IR guided missiles so much, and Austin mentioned two seat design might be used... and I think perhaps for better communication between the crew that a side by side seating arrangement might be used as with the Ka-52 and Su-34. The extra width would allow a decent sized radar to be fitted... perhaps based on the Ka-52 mounted system in addition to optics. I suspect a podded navigation targeting system would be useful too because CAS can be called out day or night so money could be saved by using an external targeting pod because for a fleet of 100 aircraft you could probably buy 30-40 pods and just fit them when needed. When the pods are upgraded you can buy 30-40 new pods and still keep the older ones. External pods are cheaper and easier to upgrade than built in systems... you don't lose an aircraft while the upgrade is being made.

    Side by side seating would increase the internal volume of the fuselage which might allow more fuel or internal weapons carriage, but the primary weapon carriage will likely be on the wings. Of course with the Il-102 it could use much thicker wings and have bomb bays for 50 and 100kg bombs inside the wings... stealthy and with guidance accurate enough to enable the lighter warheads to still be effective. A subsonic only aircraft very thick wings will not be a handicap. It will need much more powerful engines however for the extra volume and weight and drag.

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    Re: VVS Russian Air Force: News #1

    Post  TR1 on Tue May 22, 2012 9:05 pm

    http://lenta.ru/news/2012/05/22/replacement/


    Well consider me excited for the new aircraft, looks like the RuAF really wants a cheap and survivable new asset to replace Su-25.
    Zelin says the Yak-131 was fine in terms of weaponry and combat load, but failed in pilot protection.

    Many questions however:
    -Article says aircraft will use better radar, but the implication is strange since Su-25 does not have any radar.
    -What engines will power it, surely not R-195?
    -What is the extent of LO features, since presumable the payload will still be external?

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    Re: VVS Russian Air Force: News #1

    Post  George1 on Tue May 22, 2012 9:11 pm

    For me is strange that they look to replace Su-25 and not MiG-29 whose service life has already expired

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    Re: VVS Russian Air Force: News #1

    Post  TR1 on Tue May 22, 2012 9:15 pm

    MiG-29 service life has expired? Then by what magic are all those MiG-29s flying still Wink ?

    Su-25's are just as old as MiG-29s, even more in fact.
    Also completely different roles.
    VVS is getting several A2A assets: PAK-FA, Su-35, Su-30, etc.
    But only one A2G asset, the Su-34. So this makes sense.

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    Re: VVS Russian Air Force: News #1

    Post  TheArmenian on Tue May 22, 2012 9:28 pm

    Actually the VVS has some very much new MiG-29s. The ones they got back from the cancelled Algeria order.

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    Re: VVS Russian Air Force: News #1

    Post  GarryB on Wed May 23, 2012 9:22 am

    -Article says aircraft will use better radar, but the implication is strange since Su-25 does not have any radar.

    After perfecting air to ground radar and air to air radar for their main two attack helos, I would suspect fitting them to their new CAS would make sense even just so that the CAS pilots can see what the Helos that they will be operating with can see.

    The Su-25TM was fitted to carry a belly mounted radar pod to give it all weather day and night performance, but it was not accepted into service.

    There were plans to fit the Su-25SM with a fixed nose mounted radar (which would give it a better forward view compared with a belly mounting position), but those plans didn't seem to progress either.

    -What engines will power it, surely not R-195?

    Depends how much weight the new aircraft gains... the turbojet engine is supposed to offer better throttle response (ie winds up faster... which can be critical when flying low in the mountains), but they could easily go for something radical like a contra rotating pusher propeller which would be efficient at low level.

    -What is the extent of LO features, since presumable the payload will still be external?

    Being a subsonic aircraft I would expect modified fixed air intakes would be a cheap and effective change, and likely redesigned structure to hide important components, and allow DIRCM turrets a nice wide field of regard.

    For me is strange that they look to replace Su-25 and not MiG-29 whose service life has already expired

    The replacement program for the Mig-29 was called LFI to match the MFI program that eventually became the PAK FA program. I rather suspect that the replacement for the Mig-29 was delayed because Sukhoi wants to reduce the success of the new fighter... whose goals of low operating cost and relatively low purchase costs with a light 5th gen fighter bomber should sell like the Flanker sells now.

    AFAIK they have quite a few Mig-29s in storage and with minor upgrades they could be put into service fairly cheaply, so I think there is no real urgency in spending money on a replacement. The Mig-29 is a perfectly adequate numbers aircraft right now, and with a proper upgrade its operational costs are fairly low... reportedly in the 5-6,000 per flight hour range.

    Su-25's are just as old as MiG-29s, even more in fact.
    Also completely different roles.
    VVS is getting several A2A assets: PAK-FA, Su-35, Su-30, etc.
    But only one A2G asset, the Su-34. So this makes sense.

    Also a key consideration is that Frontal Aviation lost all those single engine fighters/bombers like the Mig-27, the Su-17 and the Mig-21s and Mig-15s etc etc that had a swing role of basic ground attack.

    Currently with greatly reduced aircraft numbers the Su-25 and Su-24/34 are becoming critical, though their upgrades make them orders of magnitude more powerful and effective than the older model jets...

    Actually the VVS has some very much new MiG-29s. The ones they got back from the cancelled Algeria order.

    Would like to see them give more aircraft upgrades however...

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    Re: VVS Russian Air Force: News #1

    Post  TR1 on Wed May 23, 2012 8:00 pm

    http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/6304/117885493.7/0_95894_edbb3c65_orig

    Another new Mi-26 for the MOD.

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    Re: VVS Russian Air Force: News #1

    Post  Austin on Mon May 28, 2012 10:05 am

    Interesting Read

    Mig-23MLD versus Western Fighter

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    Re: VVS Russian Air Force: News #1

    Post  SOC on Mon May 28, 2012 4:23 pm

    Austin wrote:Interesting Read

    Mig-23MLD versus Western Fighter

    Interesting, I remember seeing the report a while ago. Made me think of two things: 1) it must've been written before the monopulse AIM-7M appeared in 1982, and 2) when did the Soviet MLDs get the R-73? I seem to recall that they went to FLANKER units first.

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