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    Russian arms sales to Middle East & North Africa

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    BTRfan

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    Re: Russian arms sales to Middle East & North Africa

    Post  BTRfan on Mon Mar 21, 2011 1:49 am

    Vladimir79 wrote:Why not? we already lost $4 billion in Libya.


    Is Russia going to stand up to the USA and the NATO and stop them from plunging the world into a catastrophic war?


    I'm worried that nobody is going to check American aggression and that the nations of the world will sit by and watch America and the NATO rape more nations, just as they did with Afghanistan, Iraq, the former Yugoslavia, etc.


    Somebody has to tell them to stay out of Libya.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Russian arms sales to Middle East & North Africa

    Post  GarryB on Mon Mar 21, 2011 6:15 am

    There is no Libyan opposition party as such so when Gaddafi goes there is nothing to replace him.

    The UN said there could be a no fly zone to protect innocent civilians but all the civilians I see on TV are better armed than I am... and I am jealous!!!

    This is a civil war and the international community should butt out!

    And lost another $4-6 billion in Iran. It seems we are just happy to
    give up our weapon sales to appease French and American invasion plans.

    And it is in actual fact much worse than that because billions of dollars in debt was written off to get these new deals in the first place... I say send the bill to the US.
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    nightcrawler

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    Re: Russian arms sales to Middle East & North Africa

    Post  nightcrawler on Mon Mar 21, 2011 7:06 pm

    Vladimir79 wrote:
    GarryB wrote:And lost 12 billion in Iraq in weapons and oil deals...

    And lost another $4-6 billion in Iran. It seems we are just happy to give up our weapon sales to appease French and American invasion plans.
    You my friend speak truth. A multipolar world will be mopre prosperous & there must not be a single Hegemon; even if it be US or Russia.
    Watchmen must be watched
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    GarryB

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    Re: Russian arms sales to Middle East & North Africa

    Post  GarryB on Tue Mar 22, 2011 2:30 am

    Indeed the best mechanism to prevent a superpower from invading and regime changing on a whim was the risk that the local enemy might get military support from another superpower and for the conflict to drag on.

    It was painful for the superpower invading but it was a good reminder that sometimes it is better to stay on the sideline and let the people involved really decide for themselves.
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    George1

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    Russian arms sales to the Middle East and North Africa

    Post  George1 on Fri Apr 27, 2012 10:03 pm

    Contracts with Libya since 2005 include (prices and year contract concluded listed in parentheses):

    • modernization of Libyan S-125 Pechora-2 SAMs (SA-3 in NATO parlance) to the Pechora-2M level (<$100 million) (2009)

    • purchase of 12 Tor-M2E SAMs (SA-15 in NATO parlance) ($300 million) (2010, though other reports indicate 2008)

    • purchase of an unknown number of Igla-S portable SAMs (SA-24 in NATO parlance) (<$100 million) (2008)

    • modernization of 145 T-72 tanks ($300 million) (2010)

    • purchase of BMP-3M infantry fighting vehicles ($300 million) (not included on latest list)

    • purchase of 6 Yak-130 training aircraft ($120 million) (2010)

    • repair of 12 MiG-23ML fighter jets (<$50 million) (2006)

    • building a factory in Libya to produce AK-103 machine guns under license ($500 million) (2010)

    • purchase of 9M123 Chrystanthemum self-propelled anti-tank missile systems (not included on latest list)

    • purchase of 3 Molniya missile boats, with 96 Kh-35 Uran anti-ship missiles ($250 million) (2010)

    • repair and modernization of 2 Koni-class frigates and 3 Nanuchka II-class corvettes ($200 million) (2010)


    In addition, various reports indicate that negotiations were fairly advanced on an additional $2 billion deal that was to include:

    12-15 Su-35 fighter jets
    4 Su-30MK fighter jets
    Il-76 transport planes[
    Ka-52 helicopters
    48 T-90SA tanks
    Pantsir-S1 self-propelled SAMs
    1-2 Kilo submarines

    All of these contracts and potential contracts will undoubtedly be canceled now.

    Known contracts still to be fulfilled with Algeria are even more extensive:

    purchase of 16 SU-30MKI fighter jets ($1.5 billion)
    modernization of 250 T-72M tanks (150 already completed) (total value $200 million)
    purchase of 16 Yak-130 training aircraft (part of $8 billion deal signed in 2006)
    modernization of one Koni-class frigate and one Nanuchka-class corvette ($100 million)
    purchase of 3 S-300 air defense systems and 38 Pantsir-S1 anti-aircraft missile systems (part of $8 billion deal signed in 2006)

    Most of these are leftovers from the big contracts concluded in 2006, with just the fighter jets being a new contract signed in 2010 as a replacement for the canceled deal for MiG-29SMT fighter planes.

    Syria is the other major customer for Russia’s military industry. Recent contracts that have yet to be completed include:

    modernization of 24 MiG-29s to SMT level
    purchase of 2 MiG-31M interceptors, second-hand from Russian air force
    purchase of 8 battalions of Buk-M2E missile systems ($1 billion)
    modernization of S-125 Pechora-2 SAMs to the Pechora-2M level
    modernization of 200 T-72 tanks to T-72M1M level (part of $500 million contract to modernize 1000 tanks, 800 already completed)
    purchase of 9M123 Chrystanthemum self-propelled anti-tank missile systems (status uncertain)
    purchase of 36 Pantsir-S1 anti-aircraft missile systems (part of 2006 contract, 30 delivered in 2008-10)
    purchase of 2 K-300 Bastian coastal defense systems

    While the recent repression of anti-government protesters in Syria has not yet led to international sanctions or arms embargoes, the political uncertainty that now surrounds the Assad regime must make the Russian suppliers for these contracts very nervous.

    Other contracts with potentially vulnerable states in the region include:

    Yemen: purchase of 100 BTR-80A armored vehicles and 50 120-mm towed mortars ($60 million)
    Egypt: modernization of 20 S-125 Pechora-2 SAMs to the Pechora-2M level (10 completed)
    Kuwait: purchase of BMP-3 infantry fighting vehicles
    Kuwait: purchase of 2 Murena assault hovercraft (as payment for Russian debt to Kuwait)
    Jordan: construction of factory to make Khashim RPGs
    Lebanon: purchase of 6 Mi-24 helicopters
    Lebanon: purchase of 31 T-72M1 tanks
    Lebanon: purchase 36 M-46 130mm towed guns
    United Arab Emirates: purchase of 50 Pantsir-S1 anti-aircraft missile systems (16 delivered) ($800 million). Deal originally made in 2000, first deliveries delayed from 2003 to 2009.

    The instability in North Africa and the Middle East is clearly likely to have a potentially quite significant negative impact on Russian arms sales to the region. The leaders of the two largest clients, Libya and Syria, are both currently engaged in fights for their political survival. International sanctions will close the Libyan market to Russian sales for the foreseeable future regardless of the outcome of the ongoing military conflict there. Although chances are that the Assad regime will survive the current wave of protests sweeping through Syria, the use of the army in mass repression may make it more politically difficult for Russia to sell arms to Assad in the future.

    Meanwhile, there are few new customers in the region. Algeria has largely turned away from Russian equipment after its bad experience with the MiG-29 purchase. Morocco does not have the money to buy much in the way of advanced equipment. Egypt’s new government is likely to maintain its close relationship with the U.S. military. The Gulf States have traditionally purchased most of their military equipment from the U.S. and Western Europe as well and are unlikely to shift to Russian equipment, since most of them have the money to pay for the most advanced Western items and the political relationships to make such deals happen.

    Given this situation, it seems that Russia’s arms exporters will have to focus primarily on Asia and Latin America in the foreseeable future.

    http://russiamil.wordpress.com/2011/04/28/643/[list][*]
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    GarryB

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    Re: Russian arms sales to Middle East & North Africa

    Post  GarryB on Sat Apr 28, 2012 1:06 am

    Given this situation, it seems that Russia’s arms exporters will have to focus primarily on Asia and Latin America in the foreseeable future.

    Sorry, but I cannot agree with this...

    Countries that can't afford expensive new Russian stuff can still be sold cheaper upgraded older material that Russia still has in abundance, and military equipment sales don't have to be one sided they get equipment and hand over cash... lots of these countries might have things that Russia wants or could use so there is plenty of room for negotiations.

    The gift of a few hundred T-62M tanks with a few updates to make them more effective and cheaper to operate doesn't cost Russia much and the country that receives them might be grateful which will improve business relations.

    It also means that the Russian Army can get rid of a lot of material in storage and perhaps get rid of a calibre of ammo which will have enormous famifications for the logistics... no longer having to store 115mm smoothbore tank ammo, or keep tools and maintainence equipment for it on hand.

    The country that gets the tanks can have a portion of the ammo stores and perhaps you could sell them an ammo making factory or something.

    Even just offering port facilities to Russian naval vessels could get them a steady supply of free older material they might find useful.

    Very simply if Russia does not bother with markets that don't have a lot of money then they would have to give up the vast majority of its previous clients... and these countries will not be able to afford more expensive western equipment either.

    Russia lost the Warsaw Pact as a market and needs to get new markets to sell their products... both military and otherwise and the best way to open a new market is with free stuff to get them used to dealing with you and using your products... the west certainly looks down on Russian stuff (largely because of ignorance and arrogance) but most of the rest of the world has never seen a Russian TV. This is a huge opportunity for Russia and by ignoring markets because of revolutions... you are only hurting yourself.

    This article is a year old... AFAIK both Iraq and Egypt have approached the Russians about buying Russian gear...

    (note I have pretty much posted this reply to the original source too).
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    Palestinian

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    Re: Russian arms sales to Middle East & North Africa

    Post  Palestinian on Mon Aug 06, 2012 8:17 pm

    I heard Russia was going to supply Lebanon with some fighter jets a while ago. Any updates on that?
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    TR1

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    Re: Russian arms sales to Middle East & North Africa

    Post  TR1 on Mon Aug 06, 2012 8:55 pm

    Palestinian wrote:I heard Russia was going to supply Lebanon with some fighter jets a while ago. Any updates on that?

    Lebanon asked for Mi-24s instead, and last I heard Russia agreed.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Russian arms sales to Middle East & North Africa

    Post  GarryB on Tue Aug 07, 2012 2:32 am

    Lebanon asked for Mi-24s instead, and last I heard Russia agreed.

    Yes, I heard the same.

    At first there was talk of Mig-31s, which was then changed to Mig-29SMTs... presumably with upgrades of existing Mig-29s to SMT standard to improve performance and reduce costs as the older components of the older Mig-29s will be getting more expensive yet no more capable.
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    George1

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    Re: Russian arms sales to Middle East & North Africa

    Post  George1 on Tue Aug 07, 2012 12:28 pm

    Before some years they asked for MiG-29 but this order transformed to Mi-24, propably because of pressures by Israel. However no helicopter has been delivered by now
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    Re: Russian arms sales to Middle East & North Africa

    Post  GarryB on Wed Aug 08, 2012 12:46 am

    They already have Mig-29s, AFAIK the order was for about 12 new upgraded Migs and the upgrade of the rest of the existing fleet.

    They already have Mi-24s as well and the change to helicopters presumably included a small batch of new helos and existing helos upgraded too.
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    TR1

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    Re: Russian arms sales to Middle East & North Africa

    Post  TR1 on Wed Aug 08, 2012 12:51 am

    GarryB wrote:They already have Mig-29s, AFAIK the order was for about 12 new upgraded Migs and the upgrade of the rest of the existing fleet.

    They already have Mi-24s as well and the change to helicopters presumably included a small batch of new helos and existing helos upgraded too.

    You are mixing Syria with Lebanon Garry Wink
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    GarryB

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    Re: Russian arms sales to Middle East & North Africa

    Post  GarryB on Fri Aug 10, 2012 12:57 pm

    You are mixing Syria with Lebanon Garry

    I suspect you might be right... Sad

    I seem to remember an offer of a dozen Mig-29M2s that were changed to an order of transport Mi-8s or Mi-17s... perhaps that was for Lebanon and was an early report that wasn't clear about the helos and they guessed (wrong).

    Regarding George1's post above this is interesting... I wonder what sort of stuff they will be interested in and how much they are wanting to spend...
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    George1

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    Re: Russian arms sales to Middle East & North Africa

    Post  George1 on Thu Sep 27, 2012 3:07 pm

    Iraq could be a potential customer of MiG-35
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    TR1

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    Re: Russian arms sales to Middle East & North Africa

    Post  TR1 on Thu Sep 27, 2012 7:39 pm

    George1 wrote:Iraq could be a potential customer of MiG-35

    That would be very bizarre and entertaining.
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    George1

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    Re: Russian arms sales to Middle East & North Africa

    Post  George1 on Thu Sep 27, 2012 9:12 pm

    Iraq intends to acquire Russian aircraft and helicopters to the amount of $5 billion

    Iraq intends to acquire Russian armament, including combat aircraft and helicopters to the amount of $5 billion, Vzglyad.ru reports with reference to Iraqi news agency Shafaq News. This information was confirmed by Russian sources.

    According to mass-media, Iraqi prime-minister, Nouri al-Maliki, should visit Moscow in October and several large contracts on delivery of Russian armament and combat equipment to the amount of $5 billion should be signed. According to the Iraqi source, «military contracts will include deliveries of Sukhoi and MiG aircraft, Russian Mi helicopters and other vehicles», bmpd blog report.

    The blog’s source from Russia confirms the information, noting that the first package of contracts with Rosoboronexport will have a total value of $4.3 billion.

    According to the blog’s information, it is planned to sign a contract on delivery of МiG-29М/М2 fighters, armored vehicles, air defense systems (in particular, 42 Pantsir-S1 weapon systems), 30 combat Mi-28NE helicopters, at that Iraq will in fact become the Mi-28NE’s launch customer. Presumably, the first package will include Pantsir-S1 and Mi-28NE.

    http://www.ruaviation.com/news/2012/9/27/1236/
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    GarryB

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    Re: Russian arms sales to Middle East & North Africa

    Post  GarryB on Fri Sep 28, 2012 12:35 am

    I don't think Iraq would be allowed to buy the Mig-35 as, while they were a former customer (though like many arab customers they ended up often not paying the bill due to regime change or simply debt relief), they are still very friendly with the US.

    Selling the export model of the Havoc would be cool as long as their expectations are not too high, in terms of performance the export model would be similar to an AH-64A apache without the radars most likely... still a very capable machine however... a smaller target than a Hind and better armoured and armed.

    The Pantsir-S1s are good sellers on the open market despite not being able to hit moving targets... Rolling Eyes but then their first customer was UAE so this is not the first international sale.

    Regarding the sale of Mig-29M2s, this is very good news... I just hope the Russian AF don't use it as an excuse to buy Mig-29M2s instead of Mig-35s because Mig will already be producing the M2s for export so it will be cheaper for the AF to buy M2s than 35s.

    If they do end up buying M2s because of this the only bright lining might be they will probably buy 96 M2s where they probably would have only bought 48 35s...

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    Possible Moroccan Amur contract

    Post  Hachimoto on Thu Jul 04, 2013 2:36 pm



    Russia might offer non-nuclear submarine to Morocco

    ST.PETERSBURG, July 4 (Itar-Tass) - The Russian arms export/import agency Rosoboronexport has been promoting its non-nuclear submarine, the Amur 1650, on world markets. It intends to offer the submarine to Morocco if the tenders are held there, Rosoboronexport Deputy chief Viktor Komardin declared at an international naval show on Thursday.

    If Morocco announces the tenders for a submarine we will take part and offer the Amur 1650, Komardin said.
    Rosoboronexport intends to develop military cooperation with Morocco, Komardin said. He stressed the significance of an agreement on international economic cooperation that Russia had recently signed with Morocco. Recently, Russia has delivered to Morocco a batch of Msta-S self-propelled howitzers, he said.

    Morocco is showing an active interest in weapons for air defense and ground troops, Komardin said. It is for Morocco to make a choice now, he added. Komardin highly appreciates the level of professional training of Morocco's officers who have recently attended a presentation show of Russian-made weapons.
    The Amur 1650 submarine was designed by the Rubin Naval Design Bureau based in St.Petersburg which belongs to the United Shipbuilding Corporation.

    The maximum diving range of the submarine is 300 meters. The submarine is capable to carry 18 missiles, torpedoes or mines.
    Earlier, a number of media outlets said that Morocco intended to buy its first submarine. Russia and Germany were mentioned as possible exporters.


    http://www.itar-tass.com/c32/795829.html
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    George1

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    Re: Russian arms sales to Middle East & North Africa

    Post  George1 on Sat Nov 23, 2013 7:05 pm

    Russia to Sell $5Bln Worth of Helicopters to Mideast, Africa

    DUBAI, November 23 (RIA Novosti) – Russia’s state arms exporter said Friday that it currently has $5 billion worth of outstanding orders for helicopters with countries in the Middle East and North Africa.

    The exporter’s overall contract portfolio exceeded $38 billion as of November 1.

    A Rosoboronexport representative made the remarks after the close of the bi-annual Dubai Airshow, which has been held with support from the United Arab Emirates since 1989 and is one of the region’s biggest airspace expositions.

    This year, 23 Russian organizations – including Rosoboronexport, major aircraft manufacturer Sukhoi and state corporation Rostec – took part in the exhibition, which ran for five days and ended Thursday.

    The Russian delegation met for talks with representatives from the UAE, Saudi Arabia, India, Jordan and Algeria.

    sheytanelkebir

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    Re: Russian arms sales to Middle East & North Africa

    Post  sheytanelkebir on Mon Nov 25, 2013 3:51 pm

    The Iraqi defence minister also met with rosoboronexport reps in Dubai.

    AFAIK the French for example never had a "look" at any Iraqi MiG25s or SU24s in Iraq during the 1980s, when they were assisting with Mirages for example...

    similarly Iraqis won't let Russians working on Iraqi Mi28/MiG35s to snoop around any Apaches/F16IQ they buy, and vice versa. This is relatively easy to do by having completely separate units/bases/depots for the "eastern" and "western" weapons, a standard operational procedure they've had for 40 years, keeping the different suppliers/types segregated. My uncle was an engineer in Nu'maniya during the 1980s in the "western" field factory for artillery and armour. They had French, South Africans, British etc... there was never a russian person there ever. and it was the "opposite" in Taji for example.

    Most of the technology compromised due to Iraq in the past was the MiG21 flown to israel by a defector in 1966, one SU24 taken in 2003 and the various eastern european countries selling the allies data about Iraq's russian weapons to the allies during 1990 before the gulf war. In terms of electronics, the Iraqis already will have access to quite a bit of modern western radar/thermals/telco equipment, so russia has to be "competitive" with whatever the Iraqis are buying already.
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    flamming_python

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    Re: Russian arms sales to Middle East & North Africa

    Post  flamming_python on Mon Nov 25, 2013 6:59 pm

    sheytanelkebir wrote:The Iraqi defence minister also met with rosoboronexport reps in Dubai.

    AFAIK the French for example never had a "look" at any Iraqi MiG25s or SU24s in Iraq during the 1980s, when they were assisting with Mirages for example...

    similarly Iraqis won't let Russians working on Iraqi Mi28/MiG35s to snoop around any Apaches/F16IQ they buy, and vice versa. This is relatively easy to do by having completely separate units/bases/depots for the "eastern" and "western" weapons, a standard operational procedure they've had for 40 years, keeping the different suppliers/types segregated. My uncle was an engineer in Nu'maniya during the 1980s in the "western" field factory for artillery and armour. They had French, South Africans, British etc... there was never a russian person there ever. and it was the "opposite" in Taji for example.

    Most of the technology compromised due to Iraq in the past was the MiG21 flown to israel by a defector in 1966, one SU24 taken in 2003 and the various eastern european countries selling the allies data about Iraq's russian weapons to the allies during 1990 before the gulf war. In terms of electronics, the Iraqis already will have access to quite a bit of modern western radar/thermals/telco equipment, so russia has to be "competitive" with whatever the Iraqis are buying already.
    Yes, but all that assumes that Iraq is an independent country.
    And maybe it is more or less by now; but America set the current system up and it would be naive to think that they don't have plenty of their own people in the power structures that will show whatever the Americans wish to see.
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    flamming_python

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    Re: Russian arms sales to Middle East & North Africa

    Post  flamming_python on Mon Nov 25, 2013 7:02 pm

    The only real reason the US is ahead right now is because of its client states and allies in Europe (particularly Eastern Europe), East & South-East Asia, the Arabian Gulf and the British Commonwealth who always buy from it.

    Otherwise Russia would be powering through all the way:mg: 

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    Re: Russian arms sales to Middle East & North Africa

    Post  Hachimoto on Mon Nov 25, 2013 8:22 pm

    flamming_python wrote:The only real reason the US is ahead right now is because of its client states and allies in Europe (particularly Eastern Europe), East & South-East Asia, the Arabian Gulf and the British Commonwealth who always buy from it.

    Otherwise Russia would be powering through all the way:mg: 
    Well that's a pretty big stake, and Russia also sell to it's allies what's wrong with that?

    I love Russian weapons as much as i hate the anti US non sense...
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    GarryB

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    Re: Russian arms sales to Middle East & North Africa

    Post  GarryB on Tue Nov 26, 2013 10:44 am

    Well that's a pretty big stake, and Russia also sell to it's allies what's wrong with that?
    It is different, though Russia is learning now too.

    Soft low interest loans to countries that are then used to buy weapons is the key, though the US takes it one step further and calls it "aide".

    It is pretty much the same thing... except with the Russian model the Russian taxpayer lends the country in question some money at a very low interest rate which is then spent on Russian exports to that country... the difference is that eventually the country in question will pay back the Russian taxpayer.

    Another difference is that Russia doesn't pretend to be some wonderful force for good helping its allies with "aide", that is in actual fact just a subsidy of the US military industrial complex.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Russian arms sales to Middle East & North Africa

    Post  GarryB on Tue Nov 26, 2013 10:50 am

    Of course if Iraq actually want to use this equipment in service there would be the issue of the US developing effective counters to the Russian gear and then either directly using it against Iraq or handing it to Israel.

    Kinda like India spending billions on a 5th gen fighter and then handing the information to China who then sells it or hands it over to Pakistan...

    If they pay their money they will get export models of this equipment, and it will be in the terms and conditions that they don't share secret information.

    Whether they are successful at that or not is another question... but if you want to keep something secret... don't sell it to anyone... even your own forces... super secret. Rolling Eyes Twisted Evil 

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