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    Pantsir-S1 News Thread:



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    Re: Pantsir-S1 News Thread:

    Post  T-47 on Thu Sep 14, 2017 3:36 pm

    robognus wrote:

    New version?

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    Re: Pantsir-S1 News Thread:

    Post  GarryB on Fri Sep 15, 2017 6:36 am

    Precisely why the AGM-88E was created which has a MMW seeker on it. You also assume the Pantsir realizes it's been engage though to be honest I'm not sure what the detection range is against a HARM sized target.

    You do know that ARM seekers in MMW don't work... so this is just an active radar homing missile like MMW radar hellfire?

    If the Pantsirs radar is off that means the incoming HARM will be using active radar to find it meaning the Pantsir will detect it at enormous ranges because it is active radar.

    On its own it can engage HARM type targets at 8km AFAIK. If operating with an S-300 or S-400 battery obviously it will detect such targets at much greater distances with the S-300 or S-400 engaging the launch aircraft, while Pantsir engaging any weapons launched.

    My expectation would be that the search radar on the Pantsir would be on anyways to watch the horizon in the search radars blind spots (unless it's one of those mast mounted ones). Given the choice the HARM would probably home on the larger search radar since I think they have a list of prioritized targets. Really depends how the AGM-88E is programmed I suppose.

    Actually the radar silent IR tracking system can detect targets at 18-26km depending upon conditions.... when operating with a full battery of Pantsir vehicles (normally 8 vehicles) plus the sensor vehicles of the SAM system it is operating with there should be plenty of warning of an attack... One of those 8 Pantsir vehicles could operate its radar for 30 seconds while all 8 vehicles listen for returns... then that vehicle stops transmitting and another vehicle that could be 800m away could then start scaning while all 8 listen and all 8 look with IR sensors for targets while receiving target information from NEBO or the S-400 battery they are operating with or local SAM sites etc.

    Depends on a lot of factors, F-35s can dupe the S-400 fairly easy (in theory) at range, low level flights would avoid the S-400 but drift into Sosna/Verba/Mofrey turf, maybe US ECM prevents long range shots who knows. Too many variables to really say that's why I proposed a specific scenario.

    The only successful dupe by the F-35 was to get people to buy the damn thing.... not being a large aircraft the F-35 will be detected and tracked at very long ranges with NEBO and other ground based radar installations.

    If the super stealth fighters have to fly low to avoid radar WTF is the point of spending all that money on them... a low flying F-16 or F-15 is much much cheaper and can carry rather more weapons and fuel and are already in service...

    you misquoted the last statement - incorrectly attributed to GarryB. I had a WTF moment when I read it....

    Must say I was a bit surprised that I said something that wrong too...

    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

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    Re: Pantsir-S1 News Thread:

    Post  miketheterrible on Fri Sep 15, 2017 6:57 pm

    So regarding that radar for Pantsir, it appears I am correct, it is an AESA with an antenna:

    Link is from keypub. You will have to go to RuAF section, page 138

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    Re: Pantsir-S1 News Thread:

    Post  hoom on Mon Sep 18, 2017 7:47 am

    Via Balancer forum a height/velocity graph for Hermes missile

    From this display

    Being fairly similar missile to what Pantsir fires I think its interesting relative to the previously posted Pantsir hit list in Syria.

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    Re: Pantsir-S1 News Thread:

    Post  Stealthflanker on Mon Sep 18, 2017 8:00 pm

    The new Pantsyr antenna is kind of bit odd for being AESA. Mainly because of the feed. There is no actual need for a feed in active array unless it's space feed PESA. the feed introduce blocking which basically add sidelobes and broadening the mainlobe. Still this is acceptable or if low cost and save space is main design concern (e.g Klinok and Pero).

    However related to cost saving and being an AESA kinda brought me into interesting thought. I speculate that Pantsyr SM antenna might be a "hybrid" between AESA and PESA. With following architecture :

    Basically the array is a dual band design, with 2 operating wavelength for countermeasure. Real dual band array using TR modules however could be prohibitively expensive. One due to number of module required (at least 8595 modules for 1.5 cm operating frequency) and the fact that Pantsyr operates in Milimmetric wave band, where cost of TRM is still expensive.

    Just 4000 AESA trm can cost like U$ 3.2 million just for 1 band while the second band will double that easily. The disadvantages of using PESA scheme is reduced if the second band is only used for emergency (Jamming, etc) OR other purposes such as :

    1.Missile capture in flight
    2.Missile guidance

    The feed can easily be made circular polarization, which supports above mentioned function, and might explain the lack of missile command and capture antenna in new Pantsyr.

    but well that's merely my speculation.

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    Re: Pantsir-S1 News Thread:

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