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    Pantsir-S1 News Thread:

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    miketheterrible

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    Re: Pantsir-S1 News Thread:

    Post  miketheterrible on Mon Nov 07, 2016 3:08 pm

    No AAA. Just missiles. Heard that tubes are longer so missiles may be 40km.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Pantsir-S1 News Thread:

    Post  GarryB on Tue Nov 08, 2016 8:59 am

    In the flat open terrain of the Arctic the guns would probably be less useful than more missiles.

    I would add that likely in the near future this vehicle might operate with a similar vehicle with no missiles and a 57mm gun with a large supply of shells.


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    miketheterrible

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    Re: Pantsir-S1 News Thread:

    Post  miketheterrible on Tue Nov 08, 2016 3:02 pm

    It is a solid system that needs to be applied to other platforms like tracked for army. I know it is in the plans.

    The missiles are great. Would like to see kbp do a VLS system one day. Maybe expand to medium and long range to compete against AA.
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    Isos

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    Re: Pantsir-S1 News Thread:

    Post  Isos on Tue Nov 08, 2016 4:01 pm

    miketheterrible wrote:It is a solid system that needs to be applied to other platforms like tracked for army. I know it is in the plans.

    The missiles are great. Would like to see kbp do a VLS system one day.  Maybe expand to medium and long range to compete against AA.

    They are already medium range class missiles if you compare to what is proposed by other countries. They are clearly not designed for long range as they are not guided by onboard radar. Escaping them would be easy, just need to break ground radar lock.
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    medo

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    Re: Pantsir-S1 News Thread:

    Post  medo on Tue Nov 08, 2016 5:50 pm

    I find this two module Vityaz vehicle really excellent idea for arctic Pantsir version. While the second module is the combat module with Pantsir complex installed on it, the first module is the living module for the crew, where they coud eat, rest and live in the warm place, when they are not on duty in combat module. They could easily have two or three crews there to operate 24 hours a day. Thy will have enough space.
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    Rmf

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    Re: Pantsir-S1 News Thread:

    Post  Rmf on Tue Nov 08, 2016 8:23 pm

    magnumcromagnon wrote:Prepare to feast your eyes on this, from KBP Tula plant:

    Well i accept your challenge and raise you this! !!!!  Very Happy (pictures from early vietnam presentation).



    http://vietbao.vn/The-gioi/Bang-chung-Trung-Quoc-nhai-he-thong-PantsirSM-Nga/150411185/162/

    looks like enlarged aesa radar, missile with 210mm booster from hermes-k instead of 170mm booster raising top speed from 1,2-1,3km/s to 1,7-2km/s. (from mach 4 to mach 6)

    https://ria.ru/defense_safety/20140616/1012164592.html
    Практически все зенитно-ракетные комплексы уже применяют гиперзвуковые ракеты с максимальной скоростью порядка 3-4 Махов (3-4 скорости звука). Сейчас работы по гиперзвуку ведутся в направлении увеличения скорости до 5-7 Махов.
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    GunshipDemocracy

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    Re: Pantsir-S1 News Thread:

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Tue Nov 08, 2016 11:14 pm

    Rmf wrote:
    magnumcromagnon wrote:Prepare to feast your eyes on this, from KBP Tula plant:

    Well i accept your challenge and raise you this! !!!!  Very Happy (pictures from early vietnam presentation).



    http://vietbao.vn/The-gioi/Bang-chung-Trung-Quoc-nhai-he-thong-PantsirSM-Nga/150411185/162/

    looks like enlarged aesa radar, missile with 210mm booster from hermes-k instead of 170mm booster raising top speed from 1,2-1,3km/s to 1,7-2km/s. (from mach 4 to mach 6)

    Well did you translate this? or looked on Pantsir string only? Yandex translates this article as


    The evidence of Chinese "clones" of Russian Pantsir-SM system" Twisted Evil Twisted Evil Twisted Evil



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    GarryB

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    Re: Pantsir-S1 News Thread:

    Post  GarryB on Wed Nov 09, 2016 8:25 am

    Escaping them would be easy, just need to break ground radar lock.

    You make it sound so easy...

    And you are also wrong... the Pantsir can use optical guidance as well as radar tracking.

    breaking radar lock is not that easy either.

    Pantsirs missiles are command guided... they do not use radar guidance.

    AFAIK the search radar on Pantsir finds targets, while the tracking radar tracks up to 3 targets and up to 6 out going missiles, while the optical system can track one target and two missiles to engage that target.

    That means one vehicle can engage 4 targets with up to 8 missiles at once.


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    Isos

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    Re: Pantsir-S1 News Thread:

    Post  Isos on Wed Nov 09, 2016 1:32 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    Escaping them would be easy, just need to break ground radar lock.

    You make it sound so easy...

    And you are also wrong... the Pantsir can use optical guidance as well as radar tracking.

    breaking radar lock is not that easy either.

    Pantsirs missiles are command guided... they do not use radar guidance.

    AFAIK the search radar on Pantsir finds targets, while the tracking radar tracks up to 3 targets and up to 6 out going missiles, while the optical system can track one target and two missiles to engage that target.

    That means one vehicle can engage 4 targets with up to 8 missiles at once.

    I was talking about his idea of long range missile. I know they are command guided, that's why I said they can break the radar lock. To guide the missile you need to lock your ground radar on the target and then send this information to the missile. But If you opponent knows your are using a long range pantsir, thanks to it's electronic warfare suite, he can just reduce it's altitude or hide behind a mountain.

    Pantsirs are exellent for the short-medium range but I don't think it's usefull for lang range. And optical system won't help for a target that's 100 km away.
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    franco

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    Re: Pantsir-S1 News Thread:

    Post  franco on Wed Nov 09, 2016 11:54 pm

    magnumcromagnon wrote:Prepare to feast your eyes on this, from KBP Tula plant:






    From the announced TO&E for these 10 new Northern airfields being built or upgraded, there will be a couple of Panstirs per... maybe these babies.

    Austin

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    Re: Pantsir-S1 News Thread:

    Post  Austin on Thu Nov 10, 2016 4:28 pm

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    Rmf

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    Re: Pantsir-S1 News Thread:

    Post  Rmf on Thu Nov 10, 2016 7:01 pm

    that 2 piece truck and trailer is interesting , if they are connected by some umbilical cable that is spun out as truck moves then you can have truck leave the trailer and move away thus have separated crew from all radiating elements so crewed truck is much safer from attack and survivable.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Pantsir-S1 News Thread:

    Post  GarryB on Fri Nov 11, 2016 8:45 am

    that 2 piece truck and trailer is interesting , if they are connected by some umbilical cable that is spun out as truck moves then you can have truck leave the trailer and move away thus have separated crew from all radiating elements so crewed truck is much safer from attack and survivable.

    The two piece vehicle setup is the same as the old DT-10 type snow vehicle.

    The connection is hydraulic and includes transmission of power to the rear vehicle and brakes etc.

    The connection can be manipulated so the front section can be angled up to drive onto ice and then the rear section can be lifted up so it can get out of water onto ice by itself...

    I was talking about his idea of long range missile. I know they are command guided, that's why I said they can break the radar lock. To guide the missile you need to lock your ground radar on the target and then send this information to the missile. But If you opponent knows your are using a long range pantsir, thanks to it's electronic warfare suite, he can just reduce it's altitude or hide behind a mountain.

    First of all breaking radar locks is not as easy as you seem to think, most systems have ECM and ECCM capability so any jammers can be attacked and decoys can be discerned from real targets... these missiles are not active homers... the target just needs to be followed... once detected by radar then optical systems can be used to track its movement or the radars on other platforms can be used to follow the movements of the target.

    The IRST of the MiG-35 has a range of 95km, do you think a system on a vehicle like Pantsir will have trouble detecting targets at 40km?

    (100km is for ground targets with Hermes missiles that are terminally guided).


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    Isos

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    Re: Pantsir-S1 News Thread:

    Post  Isos on Fri Nov 11, 2016 10:09 pm

    First of all breaking radar locks is not as easy as you seem to think, most systems have ECM and ECCM capability so any jammers can be attacked and decoys can be discerned from real targets... these missiles are not active homers... the target just needs to be followed... once detected by radar then optical systems can be used to track its movement or the radars on other platforms can be used to follow the movements of the target.

    The IRST of the MiG-35 has a range of 95km, do you think a system on a vehicle like Pantsir will have trouble detecting targets at 40km?

    (100km is for ground targets with Hermes missiles that are terminally guided).

    Read again what I was saying. I just said a long range version of pantsir is useless and wouldn't be as effective as hort/medium pantsir which is a very capable system.

    Yes it's easy to break a radar lock from a ground radar that is 100 km away, just reduce your altitude. It's a commun tactic. All modern aircrafts can identify what type of radar and air defence system are operating and targeting them. NATO has electronic spy Aircraft operating near S-400/300 and pantsir and they are probably better than russians spy plane. A long range pantsir would be in their database as soon as it is marketing.

    The IRIST of the mig-35 has a maximal range of 95 km. Against a F-22 or pak Fa with reduce IR signatures in cloudy conditions, it's not better than your eyes. Idem for the optical systeme of the pantsir. If it was so good it wouldn't be used just in case of heavy ECM conditions as a second detection system.
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    Viktor

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    Re: Pantsir-S1 News Thread:

    Post  Viktor on Sat Nov 12, 2016 9:02 am

    Isos wrote:
    First of all breaking radar locks is not as easy as you seem to think, most systems have ECM and ECCM capability so any jammers can be attacked and decoys can be discerned from real targets... these missiles are not active homers... the target just needs to be followed... once detected by radar then optical systems can be used to track its movement or the radars on other platforms can be used to follow the movements of the target.

    The IRST of the MiG-35 has a range of 95km, do you think a system on a vehicle like Pantsir will have trouble detecting targets at 40km?

    (100km is for ground targets with Hermes missiles that are terminally guided).

    Read again what I was saying. I just said a long range version of pantsir is useless and wouldn't be as effective as hort/medium pantsir which is a very capable system.

    Yes it's easy to break a radar lock from a ground radar that is 100 km away, just reduce your altitude. It's a commun tactic. All modern aircrafts can identify what type of radar and air defence system are operating and targeting them. NATO has electronic spy Aircraft operating near S-400/300 and pantsir and they are probably better than russians spy plane. A long range pantsir would be in their database as soon as it is marketing.

    The IRIST of the mig-35 has a maximal range of 95 km. Against a F-22 or pak Fa with reduce IR signatures in cloudy conditions, it's not better than your eyes. Idem for the optical systeme of the pantsir. If it was so good it wouldn't be used just in case of heavy ECM conditions as a second detection system.

    No enemy ECM aircraft could get close enough to counter Pancir-SM 40km range missiles. At least if we speak about Russian PVO design.

    In Syria theatre for example it a valiable option but than again tactic is also different. You can easily adopt different tactics to make ECM unusable. Its not like Pancir-SM will be waiting

    with its radars turned on for enemy to make it un-usable. Smile Thats why you have hundreds of radar systems just watching turning off and on and changing location, scaning and your

    own ECM to make enemy ECM un-usable. SAMs stay silend until they dont Smile
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    GarryB

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    Re: Pantsir-S1 News Thread:

    Post  GarryB on Sat Nov 12, 2016 9:42 am

    Read again what I was saying. I just said a long range version of pantsir is useless and wouldn't be as effective as hort/medium pantsir which is a very capable system.

    There is no long range version of Pantsir.

    Yes it's easy to break a radar lock from a ground radar that is 100 km away, just reduce your altitude. It's a commun tactic. All modern aircrafts can identify what type of radar and air defence system are operating and targeting them. NATO has electronic spy Aircraft operating near S-400/300 and pantsir and they are probably better than russians spy plane. A long range pantsir would be in their database as soon as it is marketing.

    Just reduce altitude?

    A long range Pantsir would likely have terminal guidance... active radar homing or IIR guidance would mean no amount of descent would help... there is no radar lock needed... this is not a SARH missile... once the target is detected occasional scans to ensure it has not changed path drastically would be all that is needed for the engagement.

    Datalinks means it does not matter what radar or sensor detected the target... a Pantsir could launch a missile at a target it never even detects itself... data from another source... including passive radar detecting enemy spy aircraft and AWACS aircraft based on their emissions could be used to get the missiles close enough for their own seekers to do the rest.

    The IRIST of the mig-35 has a maximal range of 95 km. Against a F-22 or pak Fa with reduce IR signatures in cloudy conditions, it's not better than your eyes.

    An F-22 operating near Russian forces will maximise its performance by supercruising... ie taking the high ground.

    In doing so it will fly in high altitudes where there are no clouds and at speeds where the surface area of the aircraft are heated by friction to the point where a Mig-35 or Su-35 or PAK-FA will detect them at enormous distances...

    Idem for the optical systeme of the pantsir. If it was so good it wouldn't be used just in case of heavy ECM conditions as a second detection system.

    Who says it will only be used in heavy ECM situations? Pantsir uses CM and MM wave radar and EO systems for targeting.


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    Rmf

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    Re: Pantsir-S1 News Thread:

    Post  Rmf on Tue Nov 15, 2016 10:39 pm

    well old s-75 from 60s had 40km range and it was radio command guided , anyway radar horizont at 40km is 60 meters on flat terrain .
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    George1

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    Re: Pantsir-S1 News Thread:

    Post  George1 on Tue Dec 27, 2016 1:59 pm

    Pantsir-S1 air defense systems arrive in West Siberia

    More:
    http://tass.com/defense/922647


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    medo

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    Re: Pantsir-S1 News Thread:

    Post  medo on Thu Apr 06, 2017 1:27 pm



    New arctic Pantsir-SA in Alabino.
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    Rmf

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    Re: Pantsir-S1 News Thread:

    Post  Rmf on Mon Apr 17, 2017 8:33 pm

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    medo

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    Re: Pantsir-S1 News Thread:

    Post  medo on Tue Apr 18, 2017 10:05 am



    New Arctic Pantsir-SA have 18 missiles on launchers and no guns.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Pantsir-S1 News Thread:

    Post  GarryB on Tue Apr 18, 2017 11:25 am

    The flat open terrain of the arctic means if they get to gun range then there are problems...


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    Isos

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    Re: Pantsir-S1 News Thread:

    Post  Isos on Tue Apr 18, 2017 11:51 am

    GarryB wrote:The flat open terrain of the arctic means if they get to gun range then there are problems...

    Target will be bombers and cruise missiles. I don't think fighters can go there from USA or Europe.

    marat

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    Re: Pantsir-S1 News Thread:

    Post  marat on Tue Apr 18, 2017 8:41 pm

    It seems that Pantsir got his first kill. UAE Pantsir have apparently shooted down Saudi UH-60.

    https://twitter.com/MbKS15/status/854360400120479745


    Last edited by marat on Tue Apr 18, 2017 8:45 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Isos

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    Re: Pantsir-S1 News Thread:

    Post  Isos on Tue Apr 18, 2017 8:44 pm

    marat wrote:It seems that Pantsir got his first kill. UAE Pantsir have apparently shooted down Saudi UH-60.

    It already shot down turkish F-4 back in 2012.

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