Some good informations on the live tests of the improved (speed and engagement range) SAM for Pantsyr.
http://vpk-news.ru/articles/20437
On a side note the anti-helicopters/surveillance drone mine ,to be adopted within a very short time by the Army, has a remote deployment capability including air delivery.
Some good informations on the live tests of the improved (speed and engagement range) SAM for Pantsyr.
http://vpk-news.ru/articles/20437
On a side note the anti-helicopters/surveillance drone mine ,to be adopted within a very short time by the Army, has a remote deployment capability including air delivery.
Interesting article. Pantsir shot down UAV type target on the move protecting S-300. I wonder if Tor-M2U have capability to fire on the move or have to stop to launch missiles.
What is more important, is the fact, as I assume, that Pantsir using new longer range missiles will have modified radars as basic ones doesn't have enough range. Basic missiles still have enormous 20 km range for SHORAD. This modified Pantsir-S1 with 30 km range missiles will still be SHORAD version ant its range is similar to BUK-M1. New medium range Pantsir-SM will have 40 km range missiles (same as 9M96 for export S-350), difference will be in guidance as Pantsir missiles will not have ARH homing heads.
Any news, when ground forces will accept their version of Pantsir to replace their aging Tunguskas.
Just as important would be optical performance... just detecting targets at 40km and tracking them is not enough... you don't want to be shooting down your own UAVs...
Regarding those remote anti helo mines being deployable via "remote deployment" is interesting... I wonder if a Smerch battery could move to within 90km of an enemy airfield and then fire a few anti helo mine rockets to seed the surrounding terrain with them... aiming them for the end of a long runway should allow these mines to engage a range of fixed wing aircraft too...
Even flying one or two in via a UAV would be interesting to interfere with enemy air operations...
GarryB wrote: Regarding those remote anti helo mines being deployable via "remote deployment" is interesting...
The first employment of this class of very cheap weapons will be, obviously, the effective prevention of any kind of flanking NOE approach against spearhead ground forces formations - outside the coverage of the Army IAD- by part of advanced enemy helicopters (in particulars those employing mast-mounted radar for detect its potential targets).
The altitude at which such helicopters would be forced to proceed (likely over 300 m) to prevent to be decimated by those kind of mines purposely placed by ground forces units long environmental elements useful to achieve terrain masking, would render them ,on the other side , very vulnerable to early detection and engagement with any kind of LOS weapons ( from 30 mm and over gun fire to advanced beam-riding missiles ,such as Kornet-AM or even gun-launched missiles almost impossible to jam or divert).
That primary CONOP of this new kind of totally passive anti-helicopter mine wouldn't require naturally the remote deployment feature previously cited.
The remote deployment capability (pointing at the capability of each single mine elements to open and orientate itself ,over any kind of terrain of delivery, so to place its sensors and defeating mechanism toward the sky) and the nature completely passive of the target detection and identification would instead open a completely new level of operations against helicopters and tactical UAVs in theirs transient phase to the mission's area of operation.
A Mi-8 ,an UAV or even a purposely designed MRLS rocket would render typical helicopter's journey like those
a deadly risk ; one second before you fly quietly toward a group of "insurgents" receiving from radio update of the situation and the second after you are spiraling to death with a big hole in the hull and some helix torn apart by part of a big shot coming out literally from nowere and without a single enemy unit or hostile emission detected..........horrible.
Last edited by Mindstorm on Wed May 28, 2014 11:48 pm; edited 2 times in total
It is unlikely that vityaz's 9m96 missile 40km range can be compared to future pantsir's 40 km range. While the latter may reach 40 km, it is likely it'd do so barely, with enough speed left in the missile to intercept only a slow, cooperative target, such as an uav. Due to different role of vityaz sam, it's ranges are perhaps marketed as ranges against maneuvering and non-cooperative manned combat planes.
eridan wrote:It is unlikely that vityaz's 9m96 missile 40km range can be compared to future pantsir's 40 km range. While the latter may reach 40 km, it is likely it'd do so barely, with enough speed left in the missile to intercept only a slow, cooperative target, such as an uav. Due to different role of vityaz sam, it's ranges are perhaps marketed as ranges against maneuvering and non-cooperative manned combat planes.
That's very true. Range is not a single number; it is a function of many variables.
To complicate the matter further, the Russians often give a figure that refers to the "maximum" distance that an interception takes place.
I have to add that a "western" range is the maximum target distance when a launch takes place, with the interception distance being much nearer.
Russians actually use other even more challenging parameters that are normally confused by many as being the "range". They, of course, mix and match these parameters whenever they feel like it.
There is a difference between Vityaz and Pantsir missile although both have 40 km range. 9M96 missile have ARH homing head while Pantsir missile is radio guided and with this cheaper. It could also be better against stealth targets as ARH head could have problems to loch on stealth plane, while Pantsir missile could be guided optically to the target with powerful radio guiding channel, which could not be jammed.
medo wrote:There is a difference between Vityaz and Pantsir missile although both have 40 km range. 9M96 missile have ARH homing head while Pantsir missile is radio guided and with this cheaper. It could also be better against stealth targets as ARH head could have problems to loch on stealth plane, while Pantsir missile could be guided optically to the target with powerful radio guiding channel, which could not be jammed.
In the future we could see both the Vityaz 9M96 and the Pantsir missiles have QWIP seekers once they become cheaper and are mass produced. Mass produced QWIP seekers and mass produced AESA radars may very well come around the same time.
Radio and laser guidance of missiles is still a good choice for air defense in this times of heavy ECM and stealth targets, but their limitation is range and Pantsir is reaching its limits, so for longer range it will need ARH, SARH or any other type of missile guidance.
Russia began testing hypersonic missiles for anti-aircraft complex
New "Carapace" can hit ballistic targets
New "Carapace" can hit ballistic targets
WOW! The ability to engage ballistic missiles now?! In the case of a theater range ballistic missile attack, if the long range SAMS fail future Pantsir's could act as the last line of defense. The future Pantsir's will have a range of 41 km and will have 24 missiles to fire and effectively engage ballistic targets!
Hachimoto wrote:Morocco is also acquiring Pantsir-S1 in a big deal that maybe will be announced during the September meeting between putin and Mohamed VI.
Never trust Marocco, they bought already T-80U and 2S19 MSTA-S and immidiatley shipped it to US. That shit country should be sanctioned!
Hachimoto wrote:Morocco is also acquiring Pantsir-S1 in a big deal that maybe will be announced during the September meeting between putin and Mohamed VI.
Never trust Marocco, they bought already T-80U and 2S19 MSTA-S and immidiatley shipped it to US. That shit country should be sanctioned!
Morocco has been for decades a puppet state of the Pentagon, but if they turn around and sell the Pantsir to the U.S. then it wouldn't make much of a difference for 2 reasons:
1.) Domestic and Export models are completely different from each other.
2.) Pantsir uses a laser-beam riding guidance for it's missiles, which are impossible to jam!
...All in all NATO forces will still be getting their asses kicked by it, in which Israeli and Turkish F-16's have already been shot down.
Hachimoto wrote:Morocco is also acquiring Pantsir-S1 in a big deal that maybe will be announced during the September meeting between putin and Mohamed VI.
Hachimoto wrote:Morocco is also acquiring Pantsir-S1 in a big deal that maybe will be announced during the September meeting between putin and Mohamed VI.
Never trust Marocco, they bought already T-80U
This was enough to stop reading this BS !!
1992 UK bought some exemplars of T-80U, but they would not be sold directly to UK from Russia so they bought it over Morocco and for a very high price ca. 5 mln USD per tank, so Russians would not ask a lot for the very low amount of tanks they were gonna purchase. They were shipped to Britian and some or at least one ended in the US and was tested on Aberdeen Proving Ground. Same was made with MSTA-S and also ended up in USA for obvious reasons, but till this day they could not bring a modern howitzer in active service equal to PZH-2000 or MSTA-S.
I agree, Pantsir is too vital for Russian air defense, that it should not be sold to Marocco, when there is a good chance they will end in US hands, even if export version use different radars and electronics.
The export versions would most likely be severely downgraded anyway. The radar/electronics are what (primarily) makes the Pantsir.... the Pantsir. Its missiles aren't really anything new, so they should sell downgraded versions like they do with everything else.
medo wrote:I agree, Pantsir is too vital for Russian air defense, that it should not be sold to Marocco, when there is a good chance they will end in US hands, even if export version use different radars and electronics.
They could use a third party hardware like missiles and radar, optics, etc. Just so that it prevents anything considered sensitive in tech, is safe.
TheArmenian wrote:You think the ones that went to the UAE were not at least examined by the US?
I critize it always as soon russia sells anything top notch to any country it is for me personally like a betraying and comprimising of own defensive capabilities.
На учениях в Приморье новый комплекс противовоздушной обороны "Панцирь-С" впервые поразил мишени рекордно малой величины. Они имитировали иностранные беспилотники. Система "Панцирь" в несколько раз превосходит свои зарубежные аналоги. На вооружении российской армии она уже два года. Но для этих расчётов стрельбы были дебютными.
Russian army in trainings fire on very small targets imitating UAVs. 50mm mortar rounds were fired to altitude of 2,5 km and than they fall down with parashutes. The size of target is practically less than 0.01 m2, what show, that Pantsir have C-RAM capabilities and could detect very small stealth targets.