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    Pantsir-S1 News Thread:

    medo
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    Post  medo on Fri Jan 17, 2014 5:18 pm

    TR1 wrote:http://www.vif2ne.ru/nvk/forum/0/arhprint/2309019

    Good post, the REAL huge advantage of the Pantsir:

    -Pantsir's missile costs a little more than 2 million rubles. Tor (9M330/9M331) : 8-9 million.
    -Missiles like Barack and Aster-15 cost much more than Tor themselves.
    -Supposedly a new hypersonic missile is being worked on to be used vs cruise missiles. Older missile (with bigger charge) will be used versus aircraft.

    Pantsir itself is expensive, but ammo for it is cheap. Barak is naval SAM and is comparable with mentioned Tor-M1 missiles, but Aster-15 is different class. It is comparable with Buk 9M317 or better with shorter range 9M96 missile. I don't know how is Aster-15 price comparable to them.
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    Post  collegeboy16 on Sat Jan 18, 2014 1:23 pm

    TR1 wrote:http://www.vif2ne.ru/nvk/forum/0/arhprint/2309019

    Good post, the REAL huge advantage of the Pantsir:

    -Pantsir's missile costs a little more than 2 million rubles. Tor (9M330/9M331) : 8-9 million.
    -Missiles like Barack and Aster-15 cost much more than Tor themselves.
    -Supposedly a new hypersonic missile is being worked on to be used vs cruise missiles. Older missile (with bigger charge) will be used versus aircraft.
    sh!t, this time Pantsir is clear winner. If AA cant bring down tor missile price to pantsirs level and they still get orders then I suspect someone is earning a lot in illicit dealings. Also you mentioned a new hypersonic missile is in the works, I take it that this new missile is scramjet as it has smaller charge, am i right?
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    Post  GarryB on Sun Jan 19, 2014 10:07 am

    The new hypersonic missile probably just has a much lighter missile section with a lighter payload. Most UAVs are light and don't require a large warhead to destroy them, so by making the missile lighter the rocket booster will accelerate the missile to higher speeds and likely be cheaper to make... so they can be used in large numbers.

    I suspect the low cost of Pantsir-S1 will lead to that mockup of the truck mounted system that looked like a Grad launcher with 40 launch tubes ready to fire shown as part of teh HERMES system becoming viable with many of the loaded missiles dedicated to either ground attack (Hermes) or anti UCAV use with the hypersonic missiles loaded to stop a swarm attack.

    In fact that could be another option... perhaps the new missile might have several slim missiles loaded on to each booster so one missile launched can split up after booster burn out into 3 or 4 missiles that can each be guided to a separate target.

    That would mean being able to engage multiple targets close to each other with one launch with each of the guidance channels controlling one missile that can be separately guided to its own target to prevent the system from being overwhelmed... I guess it could also be used against incoming missiles that also don't require large warheads.. remember they said during tests the missiles and guidance system is so accurate direct hits were common... making such a missile an ideal choice for use against a threat like an A-10 or Ah-64 where a standard missile could be fired at the aircraft and the smaller multi missile fired at any weapons the aircraft happens to launch before the impact of the first missile...

    Just an idea...
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    Post  Austin on Mon Jan 20, 2014 5:17 pm

    http://ria.ru/defense_safety/20140120/990263068.html



    Putin visited the defense plant "Scheglowski shaft" in Tula




    President showed samples created art here, including anti-aircraft missile system "Carapace-C1", capable of hitting air and ground targets. Height at which the "Carapace-C1" is capable of hitting a target, now is 15 kilometers, and a destructive force in the future will grow up to 40 kilometers. Now these machines are guarded airspace in the vicinity of Adler and Sochi.
    medo
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    Post  medo on Mon Jan 20, 2014 6:02 pm

    http://www.sdelanounas.ru/blogs/46190/

    Now we know, where the third battery of Pantsirs from 2013 go. It go to Leningrad district (Kaliningrad or St. Petersburg?). Other two batteries went to Sochi and to Moscow.

    In comment one was writing, that KBP prepare arctic version of Pantsir-S. Meybe it will be installed on Vityaz vehicle.
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    Post  TheArmenian on Mon Jan 20, 2014 6:47 pm

    medo wrote:http://www.sdelanounas.ru/blogs/46190/

    Now we know, where the third battery of Pantsirs from 2013 go. It go to Leningrad district (Kaliningrad or St. Petersburg?). Other two batteries went to Sochi and to Moscow.

    In comment one was writing, that KBP prepare arctic version of Pantsir-S. Meybe it will be installed on Vityaz vehicle.

    Few minutes ago, Rossiya-24 TV Channel (Vesti) showed the video of Putin's visit to the KBP plant in Tula.
    There was a white camouflage painted Pantsir-S on the factory floor.

    I just checked on Vesti's website. The video is not uploaded yet. But there are photos of Putin's visit. The ADS rifle is shown but the artic Pantsir is not there. Maybe they will upload the video later. Here is the page:  http://www.vesti.ru/
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    Post  TheArmenian on Mon Jan 20, 2014 6:56 pm

    The video was uploaded as I was composing my message. Here it is:

    http://www.vesti.ru/only_video.html?vid=570262

    The ARCTIC PANTSIR-S can be seen at 0:38
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    Post  xeno on Mon Jan 20, 2014 7:02 pm

    Austin wrote:http://ria.ru/defense_safety/20140120/990263068.html



    Putin visited the defense plant "Scheglowski shaft" in Tula




    President showed samples created art here, including anti-aircraft missile system "Carapace-C1", capable of hitting air and ground targets. Height at which the "Carapace-C1" is capable of hitting a target, now is 15 kilometers, and a destructive force in the future will grow up to 40 kilometers. Now these machines are guarded airspace in the vicinity of Adler and Sochi.
    So, now we know the Pantsir-SM will have a max destruction range of 40km...
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    Post  zg18 on Mon Jan 20, 2014 7:38 pm

    Pantsir-S with Arctic cammo

    Pantsir-S1 News Thread: - Page 17 BebDJG_IcAANLwx

    Looks good
    medo
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    Post  medo on Mon Jan 20, 2014 7:57 pm

    http://tvzvezda.ru/news/vstrane_i_mire/content/201401201911-e31c.htm

    I couldn't watch video from Vesti, but I find video in TVzvezda. It seems there is another battery ready for customer, while the white one have civil plates. It seems arctic Pantsir will use the same Kamaz truck, maybe it is only modified with additional anti-freezing devices to operate in harsh arctic climate.
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    Post  TheArmenian on Mon Jan 20, 2014 8:09 pm

    The video from Vesti is now found on youtube:

    medo
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    Post  medo on Mon Jan 20, 2014 9:23 pm

    TheArmenian wrote:The video from Vesti is now found on youtube:


    Thanks, interesting video.  thumbsup 
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    Post  Viktor on Tue Jan 21, 2014 12:38 am

    Most likely that white one will be used for testing.

    Combat system "Carapace-C1" will be tested in the Arctic Circle for further exploitation in the Arctic Смотрите оригинал материала на http://www.interfax.ru/russia/news/352641

    40km range for Pancir-SM is extreme  Very Happy, its longer than letter versions of S-125 and is one man army system in comparison with S-125 as it has search and shooting radar on itself and its

    mobile with 3 times more missiles (in comparison with Pancir-S1 since we dont know how many missiles will Pancir-SM have) plus guns and its mobile. Talk about replacement.
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    Post  collegeboy16 on Tue Jan 21, 2014 12:52 pm

    I want an armata pantsir-sm, 40km far dealer of death and destruction, air and ground
    medo
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    Post  medo on Tue Jan 21, 2014 4:47 pm

    Pantsir-SM, SHORAD with 40 km range of its missile. To compare, Buk-M1 medium range SAM have range of 32 km. HAWK have 40 km range. I wonder how big this missile will be. For such extended range, Pantsir will need new radars. Maybe they will be AESA type. SHORAD doesn't really need missiles with such range. Maybe it will have few long range missiles and the rest standard ones as bigger missiles are more expensive.
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    Post  GarryB on Wed Jan 22, 2014 10:58 am

    Actually I would suspect the longer range missiles will likely have the bigger booster rocket (210mm calibre) but the missile itself might actually be slimmer and lighter , or might have some form of base bleed mechanism to increase its range.

    Certainly using a lofted trajectory range could be increased on standard models easily enough... when the booster rocket falls away the remaining missile is very slim and low drag.
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    Post  magnumcromagnon on Fri Jan 24, 2014 10:15 pm

    GarryB wrote:The new hypersonic missile probably just has a much lighter missile section with a lighter payload. Most UAVs are light and don't require a large warhead to destroy them, so by making the missile lighter the rocket booster will accelerate the missile to higher speeds and likely be cheaper to make... so they can be used in large numbers.

    I suspect the low cost of Pantsir-S1 will lead to that mockup of the truck mounted system that looked like a Grad launcher with 40 launch tubes ready to fire shown as part of teh HERMES system becoming viable with many of the loaded missiles dedicated to either ground attack (Hermes) or anti UCAV use with the hypersonic missiles loaded to stop a swarm attack.

    In fact that could be another option... perhaps the new missile might have several slim missiles loaded on to each booster so one missile launched can split up after booster burn out into 3 or 4 missiles that can each be guided to a separate target.

    That would mean being able to engage multiple targets close to each other with one launch with each of the guidance channels controlling one missile that can be separately guided to its own target to prevent the system from being overwhelmed... I guess it could also be used against incoming missiles that also don't require large warheads.. remember they said during tests the missiles and guidance system is so accurate direct hits were common... making such a missile an ideal choice for use against a threat like an A-10 or Ah-64 where a standard missile could be fired at the aircraft and the smaller multi missile fired at any weapons the aircraft happens to launch before the impact of the first missile...

    Just an idea...

    Maybe I'm late to the party, seems like that might actually be in the works, starting around 2:58 of the video there seems to be a new Pantsir system with 24 launch tubes:

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    Post  xeno on Fri Jan 24, 2014 10:35 pm

    Pantsir-S1 News Thread: - Page 17 Pantsi10
    Pantsir-S1 News Thread: - Page 17 Pantsi11
    Pantsir-S1 News Thread: - Page 17 Pantsi12
    Some guy post these from that video on MP.
    Pantsir-SM with hyper-sonic missiles and 40km range will be ridiculously awesome.
    The only thing, which is not good enough, is still PESA...
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    Post  Morpheus Eberhardt on Fri Jan 24, 2014 11:04 pm

    magnumcromagnon wrote:Maybe I'm late to the party, seems like that might actually be in the works, starting around 2:58 of the video there seems to be a new Pantsir system with 24 launch tubes:


    I the same video at 5:29, it seems they are talking about a bicaliber shoulder-fired surface-to-air missile of 10 km range. Anybody with the language skill can shed some more light on this part of the video?
    Morpheus Eberhardt
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    Post  Morpheus Eberhardt on Fri Jan 24, 2014 11:12 pm

    xeno wrote:Pantsir-S1 News Thread: - Page 17 Pantsi10
    Pantsir-S1 News Thread: - Page 17 Pantsi11
    Pantsir-S1 News Thread: - Page 17 Pantsi12
    Some guy post these from that video on MP.
    Pantsir-SM with hyper-sonic missiles and 40km range will be ridiculously awesome.
    The only thing, which is not good enough, is still PESA...
    Not that it is of any significance, but what makes you conclude that the radar/radars depicted are PESA?
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    Post  KomissarBojanchev on Fri Jan 24, 2014 11:36 pm

    The Russian army immediately needs the tracked pantsir to be delivered to replace the aging tunguskas. The morphei and torM2 need a cheaper alternative.
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    Post  KomissarBojanchev on Fri Jan 24, 2014 11:38 pm

    Morpheus Eberhardt wrote:
    xeno wrote:Pantsir-S1 News Thread: - Page 17 Pantsi10
    Pantsir-S1 News Thread: - Page 17 Pantsi11
    Pantsir-S1 News Thread: - Page 17 Pantsi12
    Some guy post these from that video on MP.
    Pantsir-SM with hyper-sonic missiles and 40km range will be ridiculously awesome.
    The only thing, which is not good enough, is still PESA...
    Not that it is of any significance, but what makes you conclude that the radar/radars depicted are PESA?
    Does the front radar of this model have an igla launcher attached to it?
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    Post  mack8 on Fri Jan 24, 2014 11:45 pm

    No more guns on Pantsir-SM? What does these images indicate, that the new Pantsir will operate in two vehicle teams ("mass firepower" vehicle with 24 missiles, radar vehicle with 12 misiles) totaling 36 ready to fire missiles, or those are two different variants? Oh btw, any idea whatever is happening with the iraqi order ?! Thanks.


    Last edited by mack8 on Fri Jan 24, 2014 11:46 pm; edited 1 time in total
    magnumcromagnon
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    Post  magnumcromagnon on Fri Jan 24, 2014 11:46 pm

    Morpheus Eberhardt wrote:
    magnumcromagnon wrote:Maybe I'm late to the party, seems like that might actually be in the works, starting around 2:58 of the video there seems to be a new Pantsir system with 24 launch tubes:


    I the same video at 5:29, it seems they are talking about a bicaliber shoulder-fired surface-to-air missile of 10 km range. Anybody with the language skill can shed some more light on this part of the video?

    I can't speak/read or understand Russian to save my life, however I heard a vague mention of Armata, Boomerang, Kurganets...can someone (who's fluent in Russian) would be so kind to enlighten us to what was said?
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    Post  xeno on Sat Jan 25, 2014 12:21 am

    Morpheus Eberhardt wrote:
    Not that it is of any significance, but what makes you conclude that the radar/radars depicted are PESA?
    I don't believe Russia will have luxury to equip them with AESA from points of view of finance and technology(T/R unit mass production) when they enter service in 2016. A typical example is Vityaz SAM system, which is much more expensive and important than Pantsir and much less regarding to quantity. It will enter service around 2016 as well and be equiped with PESA. Russia cannot afford Vityaz with AESA, how can they afford Pantsir-SM with AESA in 2016, even we supose Pantsir-SM's AESA may be  cheaper than that of Vityaz?
    Secondly the radar in that video doesn't look like AESA to me although I am not a radar expert...

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