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    [Official] Armata Discussion thread #1

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    Austin
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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #1

    Post  Austin on Tue Jul 08, 2014 5:46 pm

    Interview Vyacheslav Halitov deputy. Director of SPC "Uralvagonzavod" for special equipment

    http://www.echo.msk.ru/programs/arsenal/1354580-echo/


    Has information on Armata and other things unfortunately transalator plays tricks

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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #1

    Post  Austin on Wed Jul 09, 2014 6:24 pm

    Who can read Russian any thing interesting mentioned in that interview ?

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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #1

    Post  Zivo on Wed Jul 09, 2014 8:39 pm

    From Vitaly Ivanovich over at otvaga. Translated with Bing. Emphasis is my own.

    I. KOROTCHENKO: I cannot ask about fifth-generation tank "' Armata". How are things at work in this field?

    Fr. VASILY BOCHKARYOV: you mentioned only one kind of equipment the army is the main battle tank. Last 4 years we have the task to, in General, change the shape of the ground force weapons. You know, that we develop a new tank, new heavy ARMOURED VEHICLES, a new light ARMOURED VEHICLES, new ARMORED PERSONNEL CARRIERS, self-propelled artillery, a new installation, a new military automotive technology. All of this equipment, in addition to what will be the main combat unit, it will be a universal platform to unified solutions we can establish different systems. For example, military defence systems, control systems or communication systems, electronic warfare, and so concentrate on your question on "Armate", today we are in the schedule for this work. The ARMAT developed three types of machines. We get the modern tank, where important issues are resolved to protect the crew and his life. There are designs that allow the private capsule to protect from destruction and save the lives of the crew. The second challenge, which is solved-this is the correct location for the film. Have you seen the terrifying footage of two tanks t-72, which just razmetalo on the asphalt. This is just the result of hitting the ammunition of the RPG. Nothing remains from iron. You understand what's going on with people. Therefore, this vulnerability of today's machines. Our engineers have found very interesting, proper constructive decision, which allows us to solve this problem today. Plus new armor, new technical solutions to detect the enemy, new technical solutions related to the opportunity at greater distances more accurately destroy enemy running characteristics of the machine. In General, this technique is absolutely new. May 9, 2015 at the victory parade in honour of 70 years we are planning that this new technology will be held in red square. And our citizens in General will see the new look of ground force weapons. For us this is a very important date. For us, this is a very important milestone. And we are now very tight, persistently works to ensure that all this could have been resolved in the complex.

    And what will korotchenko calibre tank gun "' Armata"?

    Fr. VASILY BOCHKARYOV: calibre is the same as it was before-125 mm. When we tackled the question on creation of the new machine, it was very important to be able to use an old loads. We have certain accumulations. Agree that hard, if you make a new car, and then where to put the production which is now in stock. Because ammo is an accumulation that is always there in the warehouses of the Ministry of defence. Therefore, 125 mm calibre.

    And: Bronekapsula korotchenko really will ensure security in many situations of real fights?

    Fr. VASILY BOCHKARYOV: of course, we understand that hit a tank, you can. There are no miracles. Of course, also affected the tank on the battlefield, it can be hit and previews. When we say that we are creating new conditions for the crew, we're not saying that 100% of it is protected. But the level of protection we have raised several orders of magnitude. And anyway this achievement. And here it is very important to understand that we protect the crew from secondary fragments. This is very important because as a rule are not the ammunition, and secondary shrapnel, shards of armor, which hit the soldier inside the fighting compartment. So here is a solution that allows us to protect themselves from the case. It is clear that will blunt trauma, injury, but this is the life of a.

    And how korotchenko conditions of habitability in terms of ergonomics and comfort of the crew during the fighting?

    Fr. VASILY BOCHKARYOV: during the fighting, perhaps, about the comfort of talking tough, because the battle is something else. But overall we have got better habitability, seats for the crew became more available and more. And not so much the fighting trapped in the capsule. Very comfortable seating. Plus, they even compensate some dynamic effect on the soldier in a landmine explosion. Therefore, in this respect, if we talk about comfort in such a context, the more comfortable habitability.

    I. KOROTCHENKO: certainly not luxury Mercedes, but in comparison with old samples of technology is a revolution. Visualization of information will go through the display?

    Fr. VASILY BOCHKARYOV: Yes. For the crew, you are a lot of different information. He can watch and the day of the battle field, night vision very seriously developed. The radar system is installed, which allows you to get a lot of high-quality, relevant information. All-round view technology, installed video cameras on all sides, which allow fast enough today to receive timely information, to look around, to combat the manëvre or of the defeat of the enemy.

    I. KOROTCHENKO: "Uralvagonzavod" fits within the time allotted?

    About.: VASILY BOCHKARYOV on instructions from Dmitry Olegovich Rogozina now carry a large range of activities. Today you came from a business trip from Tula. We have worked with your colleagues at the BAF, had a large event on one of the items, which is an important part of the "Armat", "Kurganca", "Boomerang". This self-contained weapon station. And we see that there are ongoing issues, but they are working. The mood among developers, producers, testers at the deadline. Therefore, technology is already in the Ministry of defence to ostentatious boxes will be in January-February of the year 2015.

    I. KOROTCHENKO: that is, in January and February have serial ARMAT?

    Fr. VASILY BOCHKARYOV: Serial ARMAT first tanks appear already in the Ministry of defence, and they will start on these tanks prepare to this very important external event-victory day in red square, 70-th anniversary of the great holiday. This technique will be on parade. Will be a great technical work, maintenance of equipment, its performance, combat shooting, accuracy characteristics and so we call it pre-production prototypes of the samples. You can call it a pilot batch. Like any new technology, it needs trimming. The President tasked, by number of prior to 2020 year already painted. Somewhere around mid-2015, will be painted with these tanks by year up to the year 2025.

    I. KOROTCHENKO: I remember the article "be strong", Putin said that the 2200 units will be purchased for the armed forces.

    Fr. VASILY BOCHKARYOV: absolutely. He spoke of an amount up to the year 2020. And today we are looking at the planning horizon up to the year 2025.

    I. KOROTCHENKO: When will be declassified appearance the new tank? When will we see it live?

    Fr. VASILY BOCHKARYOV: May 9, 2015 onwards.

    http://rusnovosti.ru/programms/prog/299950/324721/



    So it's confirmed, Armata will have "Very comfortable seating" apparently somewhere between a T-72 and a luxury Mercedes, I can die happy.  Laughing

    magnumcromagnon
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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #1

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Wed Jul 09, 2014 9:34 pm

    Obviously from a logistical stand point you choose the 125mm barrel over a 152mm barrel by a long country mile, because 1.) There's probably anywhere from 10's of thousands to millions of 125mm shells/rounds produced over several decades in storage (who know's the real number), and 2.) There's simply nothing that warrants a 152mm tank barrel, a modernized 125mm barrel with an modernized autoloader capable of carrying modern HE, new and longer KE darts, and new HEAT warheads would kill any vehicle from from the sides after ERA, and the extra size and weight would be costly logistically on bridges, roads, and transport vehicles such as tactical and strategic heavy airlift planes 3.) Suffice to say this I still want to see a 152mm tank barrel developed, I know it sounds contradictory but having the something "developed" doesn't mean I want to see it widely employed in large numbers, I'm not afraid of the power but the logistics headaches. Sad

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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #1

    Post  Austin on Thu Jul 10, 2014 10:03 am

    Any thing on T-72 , T-90MS for the Russian Army in that interview ?

    What about Bomarang etc

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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #1

    Post  Sujoy on Thu Jul 10, 2014 12:20 pm

    Zivo wrote:Fr. VASILY BOCHKARYOV: Yes. For the crew, you are a lot of different information. He can watch and the day of the battle field, night vision very seriously developed. The radar system is installed, which allows you to get a lot of high-quality, relevant information. [b]All-round view technology, installed video cameras on all sides, which allow fast enough today to receive timely information, to look around, to combat the manëvre or of the defeat of the enemy.

    This is something that the Armata can use .The Alex-1000 is designed to integrate with Battle Management Systems (BMS) such as FBCB2/BFT

    http://www.mriprogress.ru/_files/ALEX-1000.pdf

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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #1

    Post  collegeboy16 on Thu Jul 10, 2014 2:23 pm

    magnumcromagnon wrote:Obviously from a logistical stand point you choose the 125mm barrel over a 152mm barrel by a long country mile, because 1.) There's probably anywhere from 10's of thousands to millions of 125mm shells/rounds produced over several decades in storage (who know's the real number), and 2.) There's simply nothing that warrants a 152mm tank barrel, a modernized 125mm barrel with an modernized autoloader capable of carrying modern HE, new and longer KE darts, and new HEAT warheads would kill any vehicle from from the sides after ERA, and the extra size and weight would be costly logistically on bridges, roads, and transport vehicles such as tactical and strategic heavy airlift planes 3.) Suffice to say this I still want to see a 152mm tank barrel developed, I know it sounds contradictory but having the something "developed" doesn't mean I want to see it widely employed in large numbers, I'm not afraid of the power but the logistics headaches. Sad
    Liquid propellant gun is the way to go- even obsolete mango rounds are gonna pack some awful bite if shot at 2.5 km/s, and they have a lot of older ammo.

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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #1

    Post  Mindstorm on Fri Jul 11, 2014 10:55 am


    New generation of reactive protective elements (likely based on the NII Stali relatively latest breakthrough in energetic-active materials) already tested for implementation in Armata and Kurganet-25.


    http://vpk.name/news/113359_traktornyie_zavodyi_sovershenstvuyut__zashitu_bronetankovoi_tehniki.html

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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #1

    Post  GarryB on Fri Jul 11, 2014 1:21 pm

    Indeed a nice binary liquid propellent would be interesting.

    Binary meaning separated into two parts that might be flammable and dangerous but not explosive. When combined they become highly explosive... but they would be stored in separate areas of the vehicle and only brought together in the chamber of the weapon.

    this would render safe all the propellent carried on the vehicle and indeed it could be stored between layers of armour to reduce IR signature and defeat penetration of the vehicle... as long as the different elements are kept apart they will not pose a fire or explosion risk. together in the chamber liquid propellants often can be made rather more powerful than solid propellent and for different rounds could offer optimised propellent charges for different ranges to different targets using different rounds.


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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #1

    Post  Mindstorm on Tue Jul 15, 2014 11:53 am



    Some interesting informations by Ghur Khan on the development if new tank gun rounds (including for MBT version of heavy unified platform "Armata").

    Some little hints to more perspective solutions for offensive tank based means too.



    http://gurkhan.blogspot.ru/2014/07/blog-post_14.html


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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #1

    Post  Austin on Tue Jul 15, 2014 4:44 pm

    All I can understand from Translator is  T-90A in 2005 got new ammo Lead-1 & Lead-2 ( I wonder thats what got exported to India Wink )

    Armata has new Gun called 2A82.

    Any thing interesting for some one who understands english and translate it well ?

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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #1

    Post  RTN on Wed Aug 06, 2014 12:41 pm

    Mindstorm wrote:
    New generation of reactive protective elements (likely based on the NII Stali relatively latest breakthrough in energetic-active materials) already tested for implementation in Armata and Kurganet-25.


    http://vpk.name/news/113359_traktornyie_zavodyi_sovershenstvuyut__zashitu_bronetankovoi_tehniki.html

    Reactive armor is significantly less effective with two stage munitions able to defeat it as can hyper sonic hardened rounds.

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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #1

    Post  Werewolf on Wed Aug 06, 2014 1:05 pm

    RTN wrote:
    Mindstorm wrote:
    New generation of reactive protective elements (likely based on the NII Stali relatively latest breakthrough in energetic-active materials) already tested for implementation in Armata and Kurganet-25.


    http://vpk.name/news/113359_traktornyie_zavodyi_sovershenstvuyut__zashitu_bronetankovoi_tehniki.html

    Reactive armor  is significantly less effective with two stage munitions able to defeat it as can hyper sonic hardened rounds.

    That is why 4S23 Relikt ERA was invented, it can deal with Tandem shaped charged warheads and long rods. Already Kontak 5 had shown effectivness against long rod APFSDS.

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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #1

    Post  acatomic on Fri Aug 08, 2014 1:30 am

    Asf wrote:Rumors:

    On topwar.ru user alexpro66 told in comments:

    So, comrades! I can tell you good news! First full prototype of Armata MBT is ready!!! All systems including active defence system, unmanned combat module, ect, are fully functional. There are still no AESA blocks (they will be on the second prototype only), with that the upper hemisphere of the tank will be defended by the active defence system. Also the decision of modernizing Armata into 2-men combat vehicle is made!! That's because of survival tests showed 3-men crew is quite vulnerable in case of side armour hits. And the decision of increasing the main gun calibre too! They're waiting Putin to come till the end of the month - official presentation or photo "leaks" will be possible after that. If Putin will be satisfied it will be produced up to 16 prorotypes till the end of the year, so 100% guarantee of Armata will be shown on the next parade! It is possible to end all state testings till the end of the year!
    That's all, I've told enough for 10 years in a custody without the right of sending letters home )))
    He also implies the unmanned combat module is very well designed, and situation around Ukraine somehow pushed the work forward really fast (seems like the MoD was made to invest money in domestic military industry without delays). Seems true, as my company is one of the contractors in "Boomerang" theme, and one or two months ago the work on that subject was set to the main priority

    Could this be a radar used in Armata?


    Concern specialists have created a radar for ATVs  

    One of the actual of tasks of defending modern Ground Forces: tanks, APCs, IFCs, and mobile missile complexes, is the operative detection of self-aiming combat elements in the air (SADARM, BONUS, TGSM, BAT, etc.). These means are observed with high combat effectiveness and are actively becoming established in modern armies.

    More on http://kret.com/en/news/3408/

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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #1

    Post  Mike E on Mon Aug 11, 2014 5:20 am

    Werewolf wrote:
    RTN wrote:
    Mindstorm wrote:
    New generation of reactive protective elements (likely based on the NII Stali relatively latest breakthrough in energetic-active materials) already tested for implementation in Armata and Kurganet-25.


    http://vpk.name/news/113359_traktornyie_zavodyi_sovershenstvuyut__zashitu_bronetankovoi_tehniki.html

    Reactive armor  is significantly less effective with two stage munitions able to defeat it as can hyper sonic hardened rounds.

    That is why 4S23 Relikt ERA was invented, it can deal with Tandem shaped charged warheads and long rods. Already Kontak 5 had shown effectivness against long rod APFSDS.

    I've heard that in the late 90's Russia tested the armor on the T-90 and found it could defeat many APFSDS rounds along with a couple RPG rounds. This could be false though.... Adding "Relikt" ERA would be huge, that along with newer armor and APS systems would create an almost "unbeatable" tank.

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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #1

    Post  Werewolf on Mon Aug 11, 2014 1:27 pm

    1999 T-90 was tested against RPG7 (650mm RHA pen).,RPG29 (750mm RHA pen.), Kornet (1200mm RHA pen.)and APFSDS 3BM42 (600-650mm RHA pen.).


    The tests 1999 were tested on T-80U and T-90, the T-90 had the 7 layered composite armor like the T-72B not the same that is currently used in T-90A or even T-90A1 which is 8 layered, not to mention T-90MS.

    http://fofanov.armor.kiev.ua/Tanks/TRIALS/19991020.html


    ATGLs
    T-90: RPG-29 produced a total of 3 penetrations. No other RPG rounds could penetrate even the stripped target.
    T-80U: RPG-29 penetrated 3 times with ERA, all 5 times without ERA. Of all other grenades, one PG-7VR penetrated the stripped target.

    ATGMs
    T-90: No ATGMs could penetrate the ERA-equipped target. One Kornet ATGM penetrated the stripped target.
    T-80U: 2 Kornet ATGMs penetrated the ERA-equipped target, all 5 penetrated the stripped target. No other ATGMs could penetrate.

    APFSDS
    T-90: ERA-equipped target could not be penetrated. Furthermore, after firing the crew entered the vehicle, activated it and was able to execute the firing sequence.
    Without ERA, one round penetrated.
    T-80U (data available only for stripped target): One round almost penetrated (3mm hole in the inner lining, no visible equipment damage); two penetrated to 1/2 thickness; one missed the target completely; one hit the gun.

    The following pictures show the locations of impacts by ATGL RPG-29 (in red) and ATGM Kornet (in black) against ERA-equipped vehicles. Which of these hits penetrated was not disclosed.


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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #1

    Post  Mike E on Mon Aug 11, 2014 6:17 pm

    Werewolf wrote:1999 T-90 was tested against RPG7 (650mm RHA pen).,RPG29 (750mm RHA pen.), Kornet (1200mm RHA pen.)and APFSDS 3BM42 (600-650mm RHA pen.).


    The tests 1999 were tested on T-80U and T-90, the T-90 had the 7 layered composite armor like the T-72B not the same that is currently used in T-90A or even T-90A1 which is 8 layered, not to mention T-90MS.

    http://fofanov.armor.kiev.ua/Tanks/TRIALS/19991020.html


    ATGLs
    T-90: RPG-29 produced a total of 3 penetrations. No other RPG rounds could penetrate even the stripped target.
    T-80U: RPG-29 penetrated 3 times with ERA, all 5 times without ERA. Of all other grenades, one PG-7VR penetrated the stripped target.

    ATGMs
    T-90: No ATGMs could penetrate the ERA-equipped target. One Kornet ATGM penetrated the stripped target.
    T-80U: 2 Kornet ATGMs penetrated the ERA-equipped target, all 5 penetrated the stripped target. No other ATGMs could penetrate.

    APFSDS
    T-90: ERA-equipped target could not be penetrated. Furthermore, after firing the crew entered the vehicle, activated it and was able to execute the firing sequence.
    Without ERA, one round penetrated.
    T-80U (data available only for stripped target): One round almost penetrated (3mm hole in the inner lining, no visible equipment damage); two penetrated to 1/2 thickness; one missed the target completely; one hit the gun.

    The following pictures show the locations of impacts by ATGL RPG-29 (in red) and ATGM Kornet (in black) against ERA-equipped vehicles. Which of these hits penetrated was not disclosed.

    Thank you so much! I couldn't find this information for the longest time!

    It is funny that most people doubt the protective capabilities of the T-90, they are dead wrong.

    Now imagine this with the thicker armor and Relikt!

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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #1

    Post  akd on Mon Aug 11, 2014 8:42 pm

    Werewolf wrote:1999 T-90 was tested against RPG7 (650mm RHA pen).,RPG29 (750mm RHA pen.), Kornet (1200mm RHA pen.)and APFSDS 3BM42 (600-650mm RHA pen.).


    The tests 1999 were tested on T-80U and T-90, the T-90 had the 7 layered composite armor like the T-72B not the same that is currently used in T-90A or even T-90A1 which is 8 layered, not to mention T-90MS.

    http://fofanov.armor.kiev.ua/Tanks/TRIALS/19991020.html


    ATGLs
    T-90: RPG-29 produced a total of 3 penetrations. No other RPG rounds could penetrate even the stripped target.
    T-80U: RPG-29 penetrated 3 times with ERA, all 5 times without ERA. Of all other grenades, one PG-7VR penetrated the stripped target.

    ATGMs
    T-90: No ATGMs could penetrate the ERA-equipped target. One Kornet ATGM penetrated the stripped target.
    T-80U: 2 Kornet ATGMs penetrated the ERA-equipped target, all 5 penetrated the stripped target. No other ATGMs could penetrate.

    APFSDS
    T-90: ERA-equipped target could not be penetrated. Furthermore, after firing the crew entered the vehicle, activated it and was able to execute the firing sequence.
    Without ERA, one round penetrated.
    T-80U (data available only for stripped target): One round almost penetrated (3mm hole in the inner lining, no visible equipment damage); two penetrated to 1/2 thickness; one missed the target completely; one hit the gun.

    The following pictures show the locations of impacts by ATGL RPG-29 (in red) and ATGM Kornet (in black) against ERA-equipped vehicles. Which of these hits penetrated was not disclosed.


    Supposedly this report is not real, confirmed by website author himself (he since long ago no longer updates the site).

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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #1

    Post  Werewolf on Mon Aug 11, 2014 9:21 pm

    And where did he say it is not true?

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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #1

    Post  Mike E on Mon Aug 11, 2014 10:44 pm

    I've heard many different reports, all of which say it did occur.

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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #1

    Post  akd on Mon Aug 11, 2014 11:51 pm

    http://www.tank-net.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=18913&p=401721

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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #1

    Post  Werewolf on Tue Aug 12, 2014 12:01 am

    And why would he claim that on a tank nut forum instead putting a note on his actual own site which he pays money for?

    Actually he did not clearify anything of it, he just said he has doubts.

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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #1

    Post  Mike E on Tue Aug 12, 2014 12:02 am

    Typically I would look deeper into this, but... There are many sources saying that this event did occur, and that "tank-net" thread is full of crap. Not only that, but there are reports of T-90's sustaining similar damage in Chechnya and Georgia among others. 

    "Full of crap" - Notice how they only mention it in a couple comments, and that they quickly changed the subject to something else. Had they had a thread on the subject, and/or provided actual sorces, it would be much more believable. One or two people's opinions doesn't equal the truth, as in this case.

    Also, please provide the source of " confirmed by website author himself (he since long ago no longer updates the site)".

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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #1

    Post  akd on Tue Aug 12, 2014 12:07 am

    I just did.  He stopped updating that site a long time ago.

    Please feel free to provide an original source for the report if you don't think Fofanov's doubts raise concerns about its veracity.  Everything I can find on this report points back to Fofanov's website, except some vague references to the original source being a post in a Russian language forum.

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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #1

    Post  Mike E on Tue Aug 12, 2014 12:24 am

    Soooo? The mans got a life, him "getting out of the business" doesn't change a fact.

     - Have you provided your source? NOPE! While "Fofanov's site" appears to be the original source of that info (on the web), it could be found elsewhere. Many forum goers (not only RD) see this test as actually happening, and TND mentions in on the article about the T-90.

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