Russia Defence Forum

Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues


+94
Scorpius
Atmosphere
Podlodka77
Finty
Krepost
ALAMO
Gomig-21
Broski
Mir
Russian_Patriot_
lancelot
lyle6
gbu48098
marcellogo
jhelb
TMA1
owais.usmani
Backman
11E
limb
Rodion_Romanovic
GunshipDemocracy
ali.a.r
Tsavo Lion
Isos
Luq man
Hole
hoom
miketheterrible
LMFS
PapaDragon
archangelski
mnztr
nastle77
AMCXXL
ATLASCUB
Azi
bojcistv
Singular_trafo
Dorfmeister
Svyatoslavich
SeigSoloyvov
Mig-31BM2 Super Irbis-E
ult
eehnie
SuperEtendard
AlfaT8
Walther von Oldenburg
JohninMK
max steel
BlackArrow
higurashihougi
franco
Berkut
d_taddei2
nemrod
putinboss
Giulio
Honesroc
RTN
Kyo
Mig25
kvs
Big_Gazza
Mike E
Cyberspec
magnumcromagnon
Werewolf
mack8
CaptainPakistan
collegeboy16
gaurav
Firebird
Zivo
Sujoy
a89
dino00
flamming_python
KomissarBojanchev
Arrow
Corrosion
victor7
SOC
TR1
Mindstorm
medo
George1
Viktor
Russian Patriot
Austin
sepheronx
GarryB
Stealthflanker
Admin
98 posters

    MiG-31BM/Κ Interceptor/Attack aircraft: News

    Stealthflanker
    Stealthflanker


    Posts : 1405
    Points : 1481
    Join date : 2009-08-04
    Age : 36
    Location : Indonesia

    MiG-31BM/Κ Interceptor/Attack aircraft: News - Page 2 Empty Re: MiG-31BM/Κ Interceptor/Attack aircraft: News

    Post  Stealthflanker Sun Oct 03, 2010 6:33 pm

    Viktor wrote:What about new radar for MIG-31BM and new missiles. Anybody has some news or info?

    well for MiG-31BM ... hmm as far as i read for some sources.. like Yefim Gordon's books and Overscan's now missing "Guide to Russian Avionics"

    The MiG-31BM will use new Zaslon RADAR .. hmm i'm not sure whether it will still be called as "Zaslon S-800" or maybe "Zaslon AM" but one thing for sure.. it's not Zaslon M , MiG-31BM will still retain its old 1,1 meter diameter Kalinigrad V-8 Phased Array Antenna But it will have new processing hardware based on Zaslon M technology which increased range to 320km's .


    Hmm and for this Image

    MiG-31BM/Κ Interceptor/Attack aircraft: News - Page 2 43080_Rus_AAM_122_567lo


    Well have the "K-30", "K-77" and the "K-77M" made ..?
    GarryB
    GarryB


    Posts : 38765
    Points : 39261
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    MiG-31BM/Κ Interceptor/Attack aircraft: News - Page 2 Empty Re: MiG-31BM/Κ Interceptor/Attack aircraft: News

    Post  GarryB Mon Oct 04, 2010 2:52 am

    The original Zaslon radar had rather limited computer processing power which greatly limited its range performance though its design was such that the volume of area it could search was phenomenal.
    The Zaslon-M did have a bigger antenna but most of the improvement was in the increased processing power.

    The BM model Foxhound has much better electronics behind the radar antenna which not only improves range performance but also adds different functions.

    Regarding that drawing of the missiles, in all the drawings I had seen previously the R-77M had a fatter body with a larger more powerful rocket motor (like the R-27E models use a more powerful rocket motor to extend range). There was talk of changing from the grid fins at the tail to triangular fins to reduce drag for the cost of loss of terminal manouver capability.
    The K-74 is the updated R-73 that seems to have already been revealed today as the RVV-MD.
    The K-30 is a new lock after launch missile for the T-50 for internal carriage because missiles like R-74 can't be used from internal weapons bays because they can't lock on before they are launched from inside the weapon bay.
    The K-30 is also supposed to have a gimbled rocket nozzle so it only needs minimal wing surfaces for stability which is obviously also good for internal storage.

    As far as I know the K-37M depicted is actually a K-37 as it is clearly not fitted with a booster rocket.

    The bottom missile looks like a simple mockup of the missile above it.
    avatar
    Austin


    Posts : 7617
    Points : 8014
    Join date : 2010-05-08
    Location : India

    MiG-31BM/Κ Interceptor/Attack aircraft: News - Page 2 Empty Re: MiG-31BM/Κ Interceptor/Attack aircraft: News

    Post  Austin Mon Oct 04, 2010 4:22 am

    I was wondering if Russia will build a follow on interceptor for Mig-31BM , its is a unique aircraft in its own right and through breed interceptor , the bomber threat has not diminished but got more sophisticated.

    I dont think PAK-FA or Flanker can replace the Mig-31 as they are Airsuperiority/Multifunctional Aircraft , Since Mig-31 in many hundereds form the backbone of RuAF what will be its follow on ?
    GarryB
    GarryB


    Posts : 38765
    Points : 39261
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    MiG-31BM/Κ Interceptor/Attack aircraft: News - Page 2 Empty Re: MiG-31BM/Κ Interceptor/Attack aircraft: News

    Post  GarryB Mon Oct 04, 2010 4:56 am

    I thought with the reducing number of airfields that a larger interceptor would be a good idea.

    Right now the only sensible option would be the Tu-22M3... with an enormous radar and a belly covered in AAMs of all types it would have the speed and range and endurance and its radar aperture should allow long range detection of even low observable targets.
    Add a really big IRST, and the 4 man crew should make it a very effective long range interceptor.

    Another option would be the Tu-160P interceptor model proposed but there are too few airframes for that.

    I don't think an interceptor model of the Su-34 would have enough range, but a jammer version of the Tu-22M3 might also be useful. I remember reading about a jammer version of the Tu22M3 that was tested but the Il-76 model it competed against had much more power and was more effective in the role if slower and larger.

    Building a new aircraft from scratch would not be cheap, but might offer the advantage of better aerodynamics and new engines making the resulting aircraft able to super cruise which should extend range and improve interception performance.

    Most supersonic fighters can only achieve supersonic speeds for short periods of a few minutes at most because it burns up fuel and heats the plane externally.
    The Mig-25 and Mig-31 were exceptions in that they were designed to fly supersonically for most of their flight time... the Mig-31 could fly about 40 minutes at mach 2.4 based on fuel levels. It was restricted by external heating to 5 minutes at mach 2.6 and mach 2.85 was the limit for the engines. If mach 2.85 was exceeded the engines overheated and after landing had to be trashed.

    I have seen some drawings and models of follow ons for the Mig-31 but have not heard anything concrete.

    The way the AF people talk these days it is possible that the replacement for the Mig-31 will be UCAVs carrying heavy long range AAMs with tethered aerostats carrying radars and satellites with radars detecting incoming bombers and vectoring the UCAVs to intercept. Shocked
    avatar
    Austin


    Posts : 7617
    Points : 8014
    Join date : 2010-05-08
    Location : India

    MiG-31BM/Κ Interceptor/Attack aircraft: News - Page 2 Empty Re: MiG-31BM/Κ Interceptor/Attack aircraft: News

    Post  Austin Mon Oct 04, 2010 5:10 am

    GarryB if they need a through breed interceptor capability then they probably need to start designing one , it may not have an export market but it will be a backbone of Russian air defence.

    The current Mig-31 upgrade which makes it more formidable will last for another 15 year at best and considering the length and breadth of the country they cant afford not to have an interceptor.

    BTW can you do a comparision or list out the strength of Mig-31 viz a viz the latest flanker series Su-35 and why Mig-31 is good at its task over a flanker ?

    Thanks
    GarryB
    GarryB


    Posts : 38765
    Points : 39261
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    MiG-31BM/Κ Interceptor/Attack aircraft: News - Page 2 Empty Re: MiG-31BM/Κ Interceptor/Attack aircraft: News

    Post  GarryB Tue Oct 05, 2010 5:47 am

    The differences were more pronounced with the Su-27 version of the Flanker, because even with its good radar it was still largely tied to ground controllers.
    The Mig-31 with its ground control intercept radar operator in the rear cockpit was more independent and with its ability to datalink with other Mig-31s a flight of 4 aircraft flying 200kms apart could cover over 1,000km of airspace in one sweep looking for targets from just above the ground to high up in the atmosphere.
    The original Mig-31 was seriously lacking in computer processing power but the design of its radar allowed it to scan an enormous volume of airspace and being a passive Phased array it scanned electronically so it could cover that enormous volume of airspace in a fraction of a second.

    It is hard to emphasise enough the importance of speed for an interceptor. The Su-27 can fly at mach 2.35 on paper and can carry an enormous fuel load, but lacks the endurance of the Mig-31. I rather doubt that any Su-27 has flown at more than Mach 2 for more than 2-3 minutes whereas the Mig-31 will fly 20 minutes out and 20 minutes back at mach 2.4.
    Striking targets early means having to deal with a bomber full of bombs or cruise missiles.
    Getting there later means having to deal with a dozen or more cruise missiles for each aircraft.
    Another aspect is the weaponry with the R-33 being a rather better long range weapon for use against bombers than the R-27ER. The R-40TD is also a better weapon if the threat is an SR-71 because the Mach 5 R-40TD was designed to engage fast and high targets and has large wings and control surfaces for manoeuvring at high altitudes... the main reason for keeping it in service is to engage SR-71 type threats in a head on engagement scenario. The R-60Ms also carried are not for use in engaging fighters, they are for running down cruise missiles from behind.
    The upgrade of the Mig-31 will allow R-73 and R-77s to be carried which would be more effective at shooting down cruise missiles. The R-37 of course will give a whole new capability in taking down any ISR threats from long range.
    avatar
    Austin


    Posts : 7617
    Points : 8014
    Join date : 2010-05-08
    Location : India

    MiG-31BM/Κ Interceptor/Attack aircraft: News - Page 2 Empty Re: MiG-31BM/Κ Interceptor/Attack aircraft: News

    Post  Austin Tue Oct 05, 2010 6:04 am

    GarryB Nice summary Thanks.

    So essentially Mig-31 was designed to deal with bomber and cruise missile threat be it subsonic or supersonic. Considering the bomber threat has not gone away and will get more pronounced with NGB and something else that will replace B-2 , the bomber threat gets more sophisticated.

    That makes me wonder why they need 5th Gen Mig-31 follow on replacement more badly than a Mig-29 follow on replacement.

    The fighter threat from NATO/US is effectively dealt with PAK-FA,Su-35 and Mig-35 in high-medium-low environment.

    But Mig-31 replacement and a new bomber is what they need in the next 20 years , atleat the latter is funded.

    And without a Mig-31 replacement there will be a big hole in AD of RuAF something a PAK-FA or S-500 cant replace.
    GarryB
    GarryB


    Posts : 38765
    Points : 39261
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    MiG-31BM/Κ Interceptor/Attack aircraft: News - Page 2 Empty Re: MiG-31BM/Κ Interceptor/Attack aircraft: News

    Post  GarryB Tue Oct 05, 2010 12:36 pm

    Well there is certainly still room for growth for the Mig-31.

    Right now the processing capability has been addressed but it still uses a PESA radar and the engines are reliable enough, but the fact that they were used as substitute engines for 5th generation engines (ie representing power but not the fuel efficiency or maintainence cost reduction of real 5th gen engines) suggests that the Al-41 might be nearly interchangable so when the new engines for the T-50 are perfected the knowledge gained could be applied to the AL-41 to make it a fully operational 5th gen engine for Su-35s and perhaps Mig-31s and Su-34s. It will be a little too big for the T-50, but it raises the possibility of a single engine light fighter replacement perhaps based on something MIG might come up with after the T-50 is more solid.

    Now a more powerful engine is not much use to the Mig-31 in the sense that it is engine limited and can't really go much faster, but the higher thrust of a 5th gen Al-41 engine might allow the Mig-31 to supercruise at very high speed because it is a very low drag design.
    This will extend interception range and general range performance considerably.

    Regarding a 5th gen replacement for the Mig-31 it is not particularly urgent as a 5th gen fighter will only add AESA radar and be a bit slower.
    The Stealth and internal stowage of the 5th gen aircraft will be a bit redundant as the radar will be straining to find any possible targets.

    I have read that the MIG design bureau has a lighter cheaper 5th gen fighter design that is being held till the T-50 is mature and starting to enter service. The purpose of the MIG design is numbers and for roles where a T-50 isn't needed.
    avatar
    Austin


    Posts : 7617
    Points : 8014
    Join date : 2010-05-08
    Location : India

    MiG-31BM/Κ Interceptor/Attack aircraft: News - Page 2 Empty Re: MiG-31BM/Κ Interceptor/Attack aircraft: News

    Post  Austin Tue Oct 05, 2010 1:22 pm

    I really do not see AL-41 ever seeing light of the day what every technology and core design they have used on AL-41 they have transferred to AL-31 program and 117S.

    Hopefully the new 5th gen engine for PAK-FA brings in new ideas and technology to the table.

    Personally I do not think a light fighter from Mig will see the day , I think if even Mig design will see it could be follow on Mig-31 program for a interceptor as they are unique in the role for Russian Air Defence and the void left when Mig-31 leaves cant be filled by a Air superiority fighter , they need an interceptor to take care of future bomber threats.

    GarryB
    GarryB


    Posts : 38765
    Points : 39261
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    MiG-31BM/Κ Interceptor/Attack aircraft: News - Page 2 Empty Re: MiG-31BM/Κ Interceptor/Attack aircraft: News

    Post  GarryB Wed Oct 06, 2010 5:13 am

    The Al-41 was the original power plant for the PAK-FA when it was the MFS. It was going to be a Flanker sized aircraft or slightly bigger.
    The T-50 is actually smaller than the Flanker so the Al-41 no longer fits so they are applying the technology they would have applied to the Al-41 and are developing a slightly smaller engine.

    As such it would not make a huge amount of sense to develop the Al-41 just for a Mig-31 upgrade, but the fact that they could also use it in Su-35s and Su-34s which will remain in service for a while might make it worth developing.
    It could then be used in a larger 50 ton class interceptor to finally replace the Mig-31 if there is going to be a manned replacement.
    Of course the Tupolev company might suggest a Tu-22M variant as competition but it would be a much larger more expensive aircraft to buy and operate.
    Regarding a 5th gen Mig I think they could do it, a cheap simple 5th gen light fighter that could make up numbers. It could have a more bomb truck focus to act more like the US uses F-16s in the air to ground role, but then I think the SKAT would also be ideal for such a role.

    I have read that now that all the design bureaus are together in UAC that they will be working together on UCAVs and that a Tupolev design called the Tank will be built instead of Migs SKATE. A High altitude UCAV called S-62 will be developed by Sukhoi and other design bureaus are working on their own different competing models.
    avatar
    Austin


    Posts : 7617
    Points : 8014
    Join date : 2010-05-08
    Location : India

    MiG-31BM/Κ Interceptor/Attack aircraft: News - Page 2 Empty Re: MiG-31BM/Κ Interceptor/Attack aircraft: News

    Post  Austin Thu Nov 04, 2010 12:34 pm

    Mig-31 - Russia's Aerial Shield - Foxhound in Operational Service (via Andy B )

    http://ifile.it/8ld9vx6/MIG31.zip
    GarryB
    GarryB


    Posts : 38765
    Points : 39261
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    MiG-31BM/Κ Interceptor/Attack aircraft: News - Page 2 Empty Re: MiG-31BM/Κ Interceptor/Attack aircraft: News

    Post  GarryB Fri Nov 05, 2010 6:19 am

    I really do not see AL-41 ever seeing light of the day what every technology and core design they have used on AL-41 they have transferred to AL-31 program and 117S.

    Ummm... 117S is a project code, not a service code like Al-31.

    When the 117s service code is revealed do you think it will be Al-31xxx or Al-41xxx. I am thinking the latter.

    I have seen a drawing showing 6-7 Su-35s linking their radars together to span diameters of over 2,000km with their radars able to look up and down, so offering similar coverage to Mig-31s but over a wider swath of land.

    There will be lots of Russian clients that want new planes that can't afford T-50s but still want new aircraft... perhaps all those single engine fighters in storage in Russia could be upgraded to Mig-21-98 and Mig-23-98 type levels and sold for slightly more than the cost of their upgrades with a supply kept in reserve for spare parts follow up sales.
    The land being used for storage could then be used for other purposes or sold.
    Loyal allies could be rewarded with gifts of aircraft in storage to either increase numbers or for spares like Cuba and Vietnam etc.
    This should stimulate trade hopefully, or at least generate good will.

    What the Russian AF need are numbers planes, and I think the best source of those will be Su-27SM upgrades and Mig-29SMT upgrades, along with the Mig-35 and Su-35 purchases.
    At some stage however they are going to have to move from gen 4++++ planes to 5--- planes, and a cheap single engined MIG with a stealth shape plus relatively cheap RAM and internal weapons storage should be a good export earner and local force booster.

    In the mean time I think modification of the Mig-29/-35 so that the new all triangle finned R-77M could be fitted conformally on each side of the engine trunks should allow a minimum of 4 R-77Ms be carried without using any wing pylons and without increasing drag and RCS too much.
    (Note if they can fit optics in the lower engine nacelle then the wiring for missiles shouldn't be a problem... not the R-77 was designed for internal carriage and its standard pylon mount includes a catapault to throw the missile down and clear of the aircraft before engine start. This is included in wing mounted R-77s so I don't see why it couldn't also be used in conformal mounts for the missile on a Mig.)
    ...something like this very rough modification of a Mig-29 drawing I found... not sure about scale:

    MiG-31BM/Κ Interceptor/Attack aircraft: News - Page 2 Mig-2910

    The black dots in the front on view show where I mean... the inner positions might make carrying something on the centreline difficult, but I think two R-77Ms would be more use than the centreline fuel tank for some missions. The centre line pylon could carry another R-77M that can be used after the two below it have been fired or jettisoned, so it could carry three missiles on the centreline area.


    avatar
    Austin


    Posts : 7617
    Points : 8014
    Join date : 2010-05-08
    Location : India

    MiG-31BM/Κ Interceptor/Attack aircraft: News - Page 2 Empty Re: MiG-31BM/Κ Interceptor/Attack aircraft: News

    Post  Austin Fri Nov 05, 2010 5:02 pm

    GarryB wrote:Ummm... 117S is a project code, not a service code like Al-31.

    When the 117s service code is revealed do you think it will be Al-31xxx or Al-41xxx. I am thinking the latter.

    The 117S that powers the Su-35 is referred to as AL-41F1A and 117 that powers the PAK-FA as first state engine is referred as AL-41F1.

    Ofcource there is the AL-31FM1 which powers the upgraded Su-27SM and Su-34 and AL-31FM2 is being bench tested.link


    I have seen a drawing showing 6-7 Su-35s linking their radars together to span diameters of over 2,000km with their radars able to look up and down, so offering similar coverage to Mig-31s but over a wider swath of land.

    Yes even the MKI does that but the first aircraft ever to do that was Mig-31 way back in mid 80's

    Loyal allies could be rewarded with gifts of aircraft in storage to either increase numbers or for spares like Cuba and Vietnam etc.
    This should stimulate trade hopefully, or at least generate good will.

    Spares is a big problem for Mig-21 and cannibalizing does not help much as India has realised with its Mig-21 fleet.

    More ever a decent Flanker variant is much cheaper and packs a big punch , Even the Mig-29 variant comes cheap and Mig-35 is a good aircraft , but migs have lost their sheen after the end of SU.

    What the Russian AF need are numbers planes, and I think the best source of those will be Su-27SM upgrades and Mig-29SMT upgrades, along with the Mig-35 and Su-35 purchases.
    At some stage however they are going to have to move from gen 4++++ planes to 5--- planes, and a cheap single engined MIG with a stealth shape plus relatively cheap RAM and internal weapons storage should be a good export earner and local force booster.

    I think besides the Mig-35 , Su-27SM , Su-35 the future lies in UCAV like SKAT.

    The black dots in the front on view show where I mean... the inner positions might make carrying something on the centreline difficult, but I think two R-77Ms would be more use than the centreline fuel tank for some missions. The centre line pylon could carry another R-77M that can be used after the two below it have been fired or jettisoned, so it could carry three missiles on the centreline area.

    I am not sure what impact it will have on Mig-29 aerodynamics and flying qualities and more ever they will have to strrengthen the intake which will have weight penalty and not sure how air flow inside the engine will be affected.

    The original idea of Mig-35 with 10 pylons , 5 on each wing is a good idea
    GarryB
    GarryB


    Posts : 38765
    Points : 39261
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    MiG-31BM/Κ Interceptor/Attack aircraft: News - Page 2 Empty Re: MiG-31BM/Κ Interceptor/Attack aircraft: News

    Post  GarryB Sat Nov 06, 2010 5:17 am

    The 117S that powers the Su-35 is referred to as AL-41F1A and 117 that powers the PAK-FA as first state engine is referred as AL-41F1.

    I expected as much... so the Al-41 will see service...

    I really do not see AL-41 ever seeing light of the day...

    Yes even the MKI does that but the first aircraft ever to do that was Mig-31 way back in mid 80's

    I know... the intended point is that only an aircraft doing the job of the Mig-31 would benefit from such a capability... perhaps the replacement for the Mig-31 will be the Su-35 when numbers of the T-50 get into service in large enough numbers to make it possible.

    Spares is a big problem for Mig-21 and cannibalizing does not help much as India has realised with its Mig-21 fleet.

    If they haven't sold them already the Russians probably have spares for the aircraft they put into storage too. I mean they probably had their own spares to support them in service so when the aircraft were put into storage it would be interesting to find out what happened to the spare supply. If they have spares it will be worth selling them to countries that use the aircraft. If they don't have spares then it might be worth while producing spares as a way of earning export dollars and keeping clients that can't afford anything better at the moment.

    More ever a decent Flanker variant is much cheaper and packs a big punch , Even the Mig-29 variant comes cheap and Mig-35 is a good aircraft , but migs have lost their sheen after the end of SU.

    I agree that both the Su-27 and Mig-29 have more growth potential than the Mig-21/-23/-27 and Su-17/-22 but they have lots of these aircraft in storage and need to do something with them.
    You could fit a Mig-23 with a radar designed for the Mig-29 and it could carry R-77s and R-73s or later model missiles to be almost as potent a fighter. It would probably have improved performance if fitted with an Al-41 engine and reduced operating costs and an avionics upgrade might only cost 10-15mil or so. Not everyone needs Flanker class aircraft.

    I think besides the Mig-35 , Su-27SM , Su-35 the future lies in UCAV like SKAT.

    Certainly UCAVs should be developed, but a UCAV is not very situationally aware and if you put on it sensors like radar and IRST and defensive suites to protect it from air defences and enemy aircraft fired missiles then it starts being as expensive as a manned aircraft. If you don't fit it with these things then it becomes vulnerable to attack like a cruise missile.
    In combat against the Taleban a SKATE would be very useful for the precision delivery of ordinance on target without risking aircrew.
    Against an enemy with even the most basic airforce however and you are going to start losing a lot of aircraft.
    I think for the moment that the future remains with manned aircraft for most roles except observation and recon.

    I am not sure what impact it will have on Mig-29 aerodynamics and flying qualities and more ever they will have to strrengthen the intake which will have weight penalty and not sure how air flow inside the engine will be affected.

    Such a conformal missile position offers the lowest increase in drag and RCS short of an internal bay. The only problem has been missile seperation at launch... making sure the missile doesn't strike the aircraft after launch. The fact that the R-77 already uses a catapault to throw it downwards clear of the aircraft at launch means that will not be an issue. The other problem of course would be ground clearance so R-27s could not be used for example, but the small and folding fins of the R-77 and R-77M with triangular fins should allow such a missile location.

    The missiles will not effect airflow to the engines as the engines are in the rear of the aircraft no where near the front engine intakes.

    With pylon mounted jamming pods on the outer wing pylon and the two inner pylons on each wing for the main mission payload (ie Kh-31 missiles, Kh-35 missiles, guided bombs and fuel tanks) that leaves the third pylon out for AAMs. With conformal missile positions able to carry 4 medium range missiles without using a pylon or 5 missiles if the centre pylon is used for another missile as a standard loadout and the alternative being a centreline fuel tank and only the outer two BVR Missiles inconformal locations I think it makes the aircraft more flexible and better armed.
    Even with a 5 weapon wing being able to carry extra BVR missiles on the engine nacelles makes it a better equipped aircraft.
    In the Mig-35 one engine nacelle is already used for the lower portion of the optical system so two conformal missiles on either side might effect it of course.
    GarryB
    GarryB


    Posts : 38765
    Points : 39261
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    MiG-31BM/Κ Interceptor/Attack aircraft: News - Page 2 Empty Re: MiG-31BM/Κ Interceptor/Attack aircraft: News

    Post  GarryB Fri Dec 30, 2011 1:33 pm

    Russian Air Force will receive 60 MiG-31BM
    In Russia in 2020 through a modernization program will be held for more than 60 fighter-interceptor MiG-31. This was, according to RIA Novosti , said Defense Ministry spokesman Col. Vladimir Drik Russia. All aircraft will be upgraded to version BM. The contract for works awarded to the United Aircraft Corporation in 2011.

    The cost of the modernization program of combat aircraft is not specified. The work will be conducted under the state program arms of Russia for 2011-2020, funding for which was set at 20 trillion rubles. As expected, in 2012 for the purchase of new military technology and modernization of old, as well as several other projects will be allocated 1.769 trillion rubles, of which 1.109 trillion receive directly the Russian Defense Ministry.

    The upgraded MiG-31 will receive a new armament control system and radar, allowing to detect targets at ranges up to 320 kilometers and hit them at a distance of 280 kilometers. MiG-31BM will be able to simultaneously track up to ten air targets while pointing weapons at six of them. Updated interceptors will be able to interact with ground-based anti-aircraft missile systems, as well as to coordinate the actions of other fighters in the chain.

    Performance characteristics of the MiG-31BM compared to previous versions of the interceptor will not change. The aircraft can reach speeds of up to 2.5 thousand kilometers per hour (cruising, three thousand miles an hour - the maximum allowed). Combat radius of the MiG-31 is 720 kilometers. Currently in service with the Russian Air Force are, according to various sources, 137-146 MiG-31 and about a hundred of these aircraft are on standby.

    source: http://lenta.ru/news/2011/12/30/mig31/
    George1
    George1


    Posts : 18268
    Points : 18765
    Join date : 2011-12-22
    Location : Greece

    MiG-31BM/Κ Interceptor/Attack aircraft: News - Page 2 Empty Re: MiG-31BM/Κ Interceptor/Attack aircraft: News

    Post  George1 Fri Dec 30, 2011 4:06 pm

    Su-35S can replace MiG-31?
    GarryB
    GarryB


    Posts : 38765
    Points : 39261
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    MiG-31BM/Κ Interceptor/Attack aircraft: News - Page 2 Empty Re: MiG-31BM/Κ Interceptor/Attack aircraft: News

    Post  GarryB Fri Dec 30, 2011 11:47 pm

    Not really... I doubt they will make enough to replace the Su-27s, let alone the Mig-29s.

    The fact that they have committed to upgrade the Mig-31s to BM standard suggests they are not planning to replace it with anything till at least 2025.
    medo
    medo


    Posts : 4342
    Points : 4422
    Join date : 2010-10-24
    Location : Slovenia

    MiG-31BM/Κ Interceptor/Attack aircraft: News - Page 2 Empty Re: MiG-31BM/Κ Interceptor/Attack aircraft: News

    Post  medo Sat Dec 31, 2011 11:29 am

    In my opinion PAK FA would be replacement for Mig-31. It have long range, supercruise, powerful AESA radar, long range air to air missiles, etc. PAK FA is single seater, but the lack of second crew member is not a problem, because of high automatisation and powerful electronics inside PAK FA. Actually PAK FA will be a backbone of air defense fighters / interceptors as is Mig-31 now. Su-30 and Su-35 will be more fighters for tactical air force.
    GarryB
    GarryB


    Posts : 38765
    Points : 39261
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    MiG-31BM/Κ Interceptor/Attack aircraft: News - Page 2 Empty Re: MiG-31BM/Κ Interceptor/Attack aircraft: News

    Post  GarryB Sat Dec 31, 2011 12:52 pm

    The whole point of a stealth fighter is to fight other stealth aircraft on near equal terms or to exterminate LO and non stealthy fighters without them knowing what hit them.

    Putting them on border patrol to fighter bombers and cruise missiles is an enormous waste of potential.

    Su-35s and PAK FAs together would be a potent force against all sorts of threats, but their focus will be defending Russian airspace from enemy fighters and fighter bombers.

    The Mig-31 combines high speed and long range missiles... the 280km range missile mentioned is the R-37M missile, which is the domestic version of the RVV-BD recently revealed.

    B-52s and B-2s don't operate radar looking for enemy interceptors as that would give their location and presence away.

    That means there is absolutely no advantage to having a stealthy interceptor.

    Given the choice of a Su-35S and a Pak Fa, the Flanker would make more sense, but as there will be so few of them likely to make it to service then it makes rather more sense to put them up against F-35s and F-22s than B-52s and B-2s.
    medo
    medo


    Posts : 4342
    Points : 4422
    Join date : 2010-10-24
    Location : Slovenia

    MiG-31BM/Κ Interceptor/Attack aircraft: News - Page 2 Empty Re: MiG-31BM/Κ Interceptor/Attack aircraft: News

    Post  medo Sat Dec 31, 2011 1:34 pm

    IF B-2 and B-52 will fly into Russian air space in war, than they will absolutely have escort of F-22 fighters, so in this case stealth fighter in air defense units is sensible. On the other hand US F-22 also intercept Russian Tu-95 near Alaska. PAK FA is quite proper plane for that job to operate over large Russian territory. Maybe they could work with mix units with Su-35 and Mig-31BM, where they could work as escort fighters in peace time and not to expose PAK FA to foreign ELINT.
    GarryB
    GarryB


    Posts : 38765
    Points : 39261
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    MiG-31BM/Κ Interceptor/Attack aircraft: News - Page 2 Empty Re: MiG-31BM/Κ Interceptor/Attack aircraft: News

    Post  GarryB Sat Dec 31, 2011 2:01 pm

    F-22s simply don't have the flight range to escort B-52s or B-2...

    They will more likely be tasked with patrolling US airspace trying to track down cruise missiles before they reach their targets... a difficult job as much of the countryside will already have been obliterated by ICBMs and SLBM impacts.
    medo
    medo


    Posts : 4342
    Points : 4422
    Join date : 2010-10-24
    Location : Slovenia

    MiG-31BM/Κ Interceptor/Attack aircraft: News - Page 2 Empty Re: MiG-31BM/Κ Interceptor/Attack aircraft: News

    Post  medo Sat Dec 31, 2011 5:58 pm

    F-22 is designed for fighting with enemy air force in enemy air space to achieve air superiority. For patrolling US air space stealth is not that needed. In the case of B-2 and B-52 intruding Russian air space, there will also be F-22 to fight with Russian fighters. So stealth for PAK FA will be needed to avoid F-22 and shot down incoming B-2 and B-52 or to take battle with F-22 and leave bombers for other fighters.

    HAPPY NEW YEAR 2012 TO ALL!
    GarryB
    GarryB


    Posts : 38765
    Points : 39261
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    MiG-31BM/Κ Interceptor/Attack aircraft: News - Page 2 Empty Re: MiG-31BM/Κ Interceptor/Attack aircraft: News

    Post  GarryB Sun Jan 01, 2012 12:50 am

    Mig-31s have a flight radius at mach 2.4 of 720km, and will normally operate at that speed during an interception. That means they can fly up to 20 minutes out and 20 minutes back at mach 2.4... the F-22s will not be able to do very much.
    medo
    medo


    Posts : 4342
    Points : 4422
    Join date : 2010-10-24
    Location : Slovenia

    MiG-31BM/Κ Interceptor/Attack aircraft: News - Page 2 Empty Re: MiG-31BM/Κ Interceptor/Attack aircraft: News

    Post  medo Sun Jan 01, 2012 6:23 pm

    A lot will depend on what distance Mig-31BM could see F-22. Of course in home air space Mig will have assistance of AWACS and ground early warning radars on the other hand F-22 will also have assistance from AWACS.
    GarryB
    GarryB


    Posts : 38765
    Points : 39261
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    MiG-31BM/Κ Interceptor/Attack aircraft: News - Page 2 Empty Re: MiG-31BM/Κ Interceptor/Attack aircraft: News

    Post  GarryB Mon Jan 02, 2012 1:20 am

    But that is the point isn't it?

    How long would NATO AWACS last near Russian airspace?

    The Russian Mig-31s don't need to protect all of Siberia, because for most of Siberia there is nothing to defend/protect.

    Any AWACS aircraft loitering would be ideal targets for 280km range R-37M missiles... not to mention 400km range S-400 missiles... the F-22s would spend more time trying to protect AWACS aircraft than they would protecting the bombers.

    Can an F-22 even target an R-37M missile or S-400 missile coming in at 5-6 times the speed of sound near vertically onto and AWACS?

    The Mig-31s will be using their radars and IRSTs scanning for targets... the standard procedure is to fly 200km apart to link their radars into a chain to create a virtual radar 1,000km across able to detect targets in a box 1,000 x 400km, now that means that there will be plenty of radar overlap, so targets will be spotted from the side as well as the front... and the F-22 is not so stealthy from the side as it is from the front.

    One feature of the F-22 is its ability to supercruise and fly for long periods at high speed and and high altitude... the advantage of the high ground.

    The problem for the F-22 is that the Mig-31 is one of the few aircraft that routinely flies much much faster on normal operations, so a radar silent F-22 zipping around at mach 1.5 in supercruise wont be able to keep up with Mig-31s zipping around at mach 2.4....

    Trying to match that speed the F-22 will rapidly run out of fuel.

    The Mig-31 is often criticised for having a flight radius of only 750km, but no other interceptor could fly 1,500km at mach 2.4.

    To intercept the Mig-31 the F-22 will have to supercruise, to supercruise it will need to fly high, flying high over Russia is dangerous and makes you visible to ground based radar and airborne IRST systems.

    Sponsored content


    MiG-31BM/Κ Interceptor/Attack aircraft: News - Page 2 Empty Re: MiG-31BM/Κ Interceptor/Attack aircraft: News

    Post  Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Thu Mar 28, 2024 12:25 pm