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    The T-80s future in the Russian Army

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    George1

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    Re: The T-80s future in the Russian Army

    Post  George1 on Thu Nov 27, 2014 4:50 pm

    This is a recent video of T-80s training in russian army. It seems the tanks hasnt been withdrawn

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    George1

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    Re: The T-80s future in the Russian Army

    Post  George1 on Sat Jan 31, 2015 3:30 pm

    This is an old article from August 2014. Some T-80BVs are being overhauled at 61th repair plant despite their withdrawal

    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/951444.html



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    George1

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    Re: The T-80s future in the Russian Army

    Post  George1 on Sat Jan 31, 2015 3:34 pm

    4th Guards Kantemirovskaya Tank Division







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    sepheronx

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    Re: The T-80s future in the Russian Army

    Post  sepheronx on Sat Jan 31, 2015 4:04 pm

    Well, the T-80's probably fair better than the T-72B and at current, having them in reserve of even in use is not a bad idea. Although, commonality is needed and eventually they will need to get rid of these tanks.
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    Kyo

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    Re: The T-80s future in the Russian Army

    Post  Kyo on Sat Jan 31, 2015 7:06 pm

    What about T-80U? Heard they're operational only within a special regiment within Russian Army, apart from Korea.
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    TR1

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    Re: The T-80s future in the Russian Army

    Post  TR1 on Sat Jan 31, 2015 8:48 pm

    Kyo wrote:What about T-80U? Heard they're operational only within a special regiment within Russian Army, apart from Korea.

    Those pics above ARE T-80U, used by the Kantemerovka.
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    Werewolf

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    Re: The T-80s future in the Russian Army

    Post  Werewolf on Sat Jan 31, 2015 8:50 pm

    I always wondered what is in the small storage boxes on the left turret side where each number is writen on?
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    OminousSpudd

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    Re: The T-80s future in the Russian Army

    Post  OminousSpudd on Wed Feb 11, 2015 2:15 am



    4th Kantemirovskaya tank division training exercises.
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    eehnie

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    Re: The T-80s future in the Russian Army

    Post  eehnie on Fri May 15, 2015 1:39 pm

    I do not see a reason to keep the T-80 in active service, but at same time I do not see a reason to scrappe them. For me it is right for Russia to keep them in the reserve, as first option to send to war.

    Even being in my hand, I would replace the T-72s in the War of Donbas by T-80s, since the firsts proved to be an option for higher level conflicts, and the late has still some damage in its reputation from previous campaigns. Note that I consider not the War in Donbass as a low level war.
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    George1

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    Re: The T-80s future in the Russian Army

    Post  George1 on Fri May 15, 2015 8:59 pm

    eehnie wrote:I do not see a reason to keep the T-80 in active service, but at same time I do not see a reason to scrappe them. For me it is right for Russia to keep them in the reserve, as first option to send to war.

    Even being in my hand, I would replace the T-72s in the War of Donbas by T-80s, since the firsts proved to be an option for higher level conflicts, and the late has still some damage in its reputation from previous campaigns. Note that I consider not the War in Donbass as a low level war.

    sale them could also be an option
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    Cyberspec

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    Re: The T-80s future in the Russian Army

    Post  Cyberspec on Sat May 16, 2015 11:37 am

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    d_taddei2

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    Post  d_taddei2 on Thu Oct 29, 2015 1:40 am

    i personally think Russia would be better to keep T-72 in reserve as they have already produced many upgrades for them as well various variants
    i.e Tos-1, BMPT, etc. And then they could sell the T-80 in upgraded form. Countries that currently stock them may want more if the price is right, and other countries looking to replace older tanks would be ideal to approach them yet again if the price was right, it seems pointless in putting all these back into storage when they have about 7-8,000 T-72 in reserve,
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    Mike E

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    Re: The T-80s future in the Russian Army

    Post  Mike E on Thu Oct 29, 2015 4:20 am

    There's really not a whole lot that can be done. Only so many of the T-80's Russia has are truly exportible, and a lot of its' support has dwindled. Keeping good condition models in storage and reserve makes sense until they can be scrapped or possibly sold off.

    The problem with the T-80, is logistics. It costs a lot of money to fuel and maintain, and the only countries that would want it, are countries that basically couldn't support it. In fact, those kind of countries are more interesting in the T-72/90.

    In any case, by 2025-2030, Russia's reserves will be made up of hundreds or thousands of T-72B3's, the 100 or so T-90's, and a few left over T-80UE's. Can't wait to see T-14 delivered.
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    OminousSpudd

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    Re: The T-80s future in the Russian Army

    Post  OminousSpudd on Thu Oct 29, 2015 6:03 am

    Omsk was still very capable of overhauls for T-80s/T-80 chassis etc. last I heard... T-80 nostalgia is too damn strong, I want that thing to remain in service for years yet, just for its badass look.

    Welcome back btw, long time no see.
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    d_taddei2

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    Post  d_taddei2 on Thu Oct 29, 2015 6:08 pm

    Mike E wrote:There's really not a whole lot that can be done. Only so many of the T-80's Russia has are truly exportible, and a lot of its' support has dwindled. Keeping good condition models in storage and reserve makes sense until they can be scrapped or possibly sold off.

    The problem with the T-80, is logistics. It costs a lot of money to fuel and maintain, and the only countries that would want it, are countries that basically couldn't support it. In fact, those kind of countries are more interesting in the T-72/90.

    In any case, by 2025-2030, Russia's reserves will be made up of hundreds or thousands of T-72B3's, the 100 or so T-90's, and a few left over T-80UE's. Can't wait to see T-14 delivered.

    couldn't they just upgrade them like what the Ukranians did changing the engine to the 1,000-hp 6TD-1 6-cylinder multi-fuel two-stroke turbo-piston diesel engine, better fuel efficiency and probably cheaper to maintain than gas turbine. shouldn't cost too much to change this, could use and existing engine.

    cracker

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    Re: The T-80s future in the Russian Army

    Post  cracker on Sun Nov 29, 2015 8:48 pm

    Ok it's probably the 1000th time it's asked... but, can someone make a clear picture of the T-80 right now in russian army, and maybe what will they become by 2020 or beyond?


    I kind of understood the modernised T-72B3 are basically replacing many T-80s in active service (what, already 800 T-72B3 completed so far, more or less?)





    various questions:

    -what is the total of T-80 production anyway? We can find roughly 5000 in many sources... is that correct? I've read only 500 were T-80UD, but i've never seen a number for T-80U, anyone knows? Actually i've heard only some 200-300 T-80U were made before the UD was preferred. Or maybe it's totally bogus and there are more T-80U than UD? It seems not realistic as we've never seen many T-80U in service in the russian army, they always seemed so rare... The early T-80 was basically a T-64A turret on a new chassis, and only ~200 were made, so that leaves us with a few thousands T-80B/BV as the main production.

    -Is it really done with T-80UD in service? i remember they were supposedly all scraped by 2013, and some turrets put onto T-80B to make the hybrid T-80UE1...

    -How many T-80s of all sorts are available to the russian military today? (not only those in active service, but total)... And, how many are in service, actively? I read everythere that T-80BVs are used in all sorts of training courses and tanker schools, but not really in any active unit... it's true?

    -T-80BV always seemed to be the best of the 3 tanks (T-64BV and T-72B, even though T-72A is more the contemporary, and T-72B the contemporary of T-80U)... I know the various reasons why russia prefers T-72B, but let's be objective and honest: isn't T-80B VASTLY more performant? Ok, it has a slightly worse base armor... but everything else is vastly superior, most notably the tactical mobility (including driver confort and ease of driving), the suspension, the FCS, the rate of fire, etc... And even the Kontakt-1 ERA coverage is better on T-80BV than T-72B.

    -Russia wants a full active force of T-72B3 and T-90A, maybe? (i keep T-90AM and T-14 aside on purpose), for economical and logistical reasons, and thus put all T-80s in reserve (note, reserve - not storage)... I hope they will keep at least 1500 T-80s total and at least maintain them in good condition...

    Honestly i think the fact they chose T-72 is sad... T-80 is a great tank. T-80BV with some updates (like T-72B3) would be a very good tank.


    Last edited by cracker on Sun Nov 29, 2015 8:55 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    sepheronx

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    Re: The T-80s future in the Russian Army

    Post  sepheronx on Sun Nov 29, 2015 8:51 pm

    T-80 has no other future than a reserve tank and or quick supplies to novorussia or other entities. Outside of that, its position in Russia as a frontline tank and upgrading path for future use is at an end.

    cracker

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    Re: The T-80s future in the Russian Army

    Post  cracker on Sun Nov 29, 2015 9:00 pm

    sepheronx wrote:T-80 has no other future than a reserve tank and or quick supplies to novorussia or other entities. Outside of that, its position in Russia as a frontline tank and upgrading path for future use is at an end.

    It sounds so weird to send T-80s to "rebels", this tank which was the pride and manned by the elite divisions back then... kind of the secret tank... This is a job for old T-72s... but Russia seems to run out of "old T-72s", strangely enough... Sort of why you see T-72B3 sent in donbass instead of crappy older tanks

    I wanted to say syria could use T-80s, but then you have to see the fact that T-80 has a totally different engine and maintenance than T-72, and syria would be more hampered than helped by those tanks...

    Still, 500 T-80BVs in good condition would definitely help syria to push on various fronts and resist some ATGM hits frontally, instead of losing countless base model T-72, T-62 and T-55 in those armor pushes.



    What about a sort of T-90MS-like turret on the T-80BV or T-80U chassis? it would be an interesting tank
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    franco

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    Re: The T-80s future in the Russian Army

    Post  franco on Sun Nov 29, 2015 9:34 pm

    cracker wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:T-80 has no other future than a reserve tank and or quick supplies to novorussia or other entities. Outside of that, its position in Russia as a frontline tank and upgrading path for future use is at an end.

    It sounds so weird to send T-80s to "rebels", this tank which was the pride and manned by the elite divisions back then... kind of the secret tank... This is a job for old T-72s... but Russia seems to run out of "old T-72s", strangely enough... Sort of why you see T-72B3 sent in donbass instead of crappy older tanks

    I wanted to say syria could use T-80s, but then you have to see the fact that T-80 has a totally different engine and maintenance than T-72, and syria would be more hampered than helped by those tanks...

    Still, 500 T-80BVs in good condition would definitely help syria to push on various fronts and resist some ATGM hits frontally, instead of losing countless base model T-72, T-62 and T-55 in those armor pushes.



    What about a sort of T-90MS-like turret on the T-80BV or T-80U chassis? it would be an interesting tank

    My research suggests that there were at the most 400 T-80U's in the Russian Army after 1992 and only about 150 upgraded to T-80BV standard. Conventional wisdom is that less of these are still operational.

    cracker

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    Re: The T-80s future in the Russian Army

    Post  cracker on Mon Nov 30, 2015 1:12 am

    franco wrote:

    My research suggests that there were at the most 400 T-80U's in the Russian Army after 1992 and only about 150 upgraded to T-80BV standard. Conventional wisdom is that less of these are still operational.

    what? you must be mixing up something... How is it possible that a T-80U be "upgraded" into a T-80BV? Or you meant, only 150 T-80BV were made upon the roughly 4000 T-80B, for something littlerally done in a few hours in any workshop, something applied by the thousands (possibly tens of thds) on T-72A and B and T-64B? it's very weird... There can't possibly be only 150 T-80BV.

    Concerning T-80B/BV FCS and just internal systems in general (electronic, optic, stabiliser)... Is it identical to T-64B or is it improved in some ways? Both tanks are described as having the same FCS 1A33, something far more efficient and modern than anything mounted on the T-72, even the T-72B 1A40 doesn't compare well to the 1A33, and much less to the 1A45 of T-80U.


    Question about T-64 and T-80: how do they eject the stub case, there isn't any trapdoor like on the T-72 and T-90 Neutral
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    franco

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    Re: The T-80s future in the Russian Army

    Post  franco on Mon Nov 30, 2015 1:39 am

    cracker wrote:
    franco wrote:

    My research suggests that there were at the most 400 T-80U's in the Russian Army after 1992 and only about 150 upgraded to T-80BV standard. Conventional wisdom is that less of these are still operational.

    what? you must be mixing up something... How is it possible that a T-80U be "upgraded" into a T-80BV? Or you meant, only 150 T-80BV were made upon the roughly 4000 T-80B, for something littlerally done in a few hours in any workshop, something applied by the thousands (possibly tens of thds) on T-72A and B and T-64B? it's very weird... There can't possibly be only 150 T-80BV.

    Concerning T-80B/BV FCS and just internal systems in general (electronic, optic, stabiliser)... Is it identical to T-64B or is it improved in some ways? Both tanks are described as having the same FCS 1A33, something far more efficient and modern than anything mounted on the T-72, even the T-72B 1A40 doesn't compare well to the 1A33, and much less to the 1A45 of T-80U.


    Question about T-64 and T-80: how do they eject the stub case, there isn't any trapdoor like on the T-72 and T-90 Neutral

    Sorry my bad! Not very clear, only 150 T-80B's or so were upgraded to T-80BV's. Heard decision made to phase out the T-80's instead.

    cracker

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    Re: The T-80s future in the Russian Army

    Post  cracker on Mon Nov 30, 2015 1:48 am

    franco wrote:

    Sorry my bad! Not very clear, only 150 T-80B's or so were upgraded to T-80BV's. Heard decision made to phase out the T-80's instead.  

    i still don't get it... it makes no sense. Almost all T-80B were upgraded into T-80BV as far as we know.. Like for T-64BV. Also, T-80BV production lasted surely 5 or 6 years, because T-80U wasn't produced in the same factory. So you have about 6 years of T-80B production + 5-6 of T-80BV production in parallel of T-80U and UD. T-80BV started to be produced in 1984, and kits for upgrading older tanks were provided quickly too

    If you look pictures you'll find countless of T-80BV but only black and white pictures of early T-80B or rarely in color, or in museums, etc... I can't believe it's only 150 tanks.

    Also, T-80BV armor was not identical to the T-80B, and it's said later production even used T-80U turret but with K1 era. And still the older internals, not the modern stuff of T-80U, just the turret.

    You can look at the ukrainian tank dumps, you'll find T-80s rotting in the open, all have the mountings for the ERA, they are T-80BVs, and it was/is the same in many russian tank storage places.

    Just a few months ago ukrops restored some 50 T-80BVs for their troops, so you tell me they had 50s and russia has 100 in total? it can't be.
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    franco

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    Re: The T-80s future in the Russian Army

    Post  franco on Mon Nov 30, 2015 1:53 am

    The figures I quoted of 400 and 150 were for the Russian Army only. As to the rest, those are the numbers that I came across in my research. Have actually seen one report that said only 115 B's were upgraded by the Russians.

    cracker

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    Re: The T-80s future in the Russian Army

    Post  cracker on Mon Nov 30, 2015 10:08 pm

    hmm ok whatever that means...
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    franco

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    Re: The T-80s future in the Russian Army

    Post  franco on Mon Nov 30, 2015 10:50 pm

    cracker wrote:hmm ok whatever that means...

    You don't like my English Mad

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