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    The T-80s future in the Russian Army

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    eehnie
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    Re: The T-80s future in the Russian Army

    Post  eehnie on Thu Oct 25, 2018 4:31 pm

    d_taddei2 wrote:
    eehnie wrote:There is not problem about keeping both at this point.

    Nothing makes the ZU-23(-2) or the (M)T-12 better to keep than the T-80.


    But what I will say is zu-23-2 is much better to keep than T-80 you have to look at its uses and number of customers using it vs number of export customers using T-80.

    Under this logic the T-55 would be "better to keep" than the T-80 and the T-72. This is not how it works.

    Absurd.
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    Re: The T-80s future in the Russian Army

    Post  d_taddei2 on Thu Oct 25, 2018 7:06 pm

    eehnie wrote:
    d_taddei2 wrote:
    eehnie wrote:There is not problem about keeping both at this point.

    Nothing makes the ZU-23(-2) or the (M)T-12 better to keep than the T-80.


    But what I will say is zu-23-2 is much better to keep than T-80 you have to look at its uses and number of customers using it vs number of export customers using T-80.

    Under this logic the T-55 would be "better to keep" than the T-80 and the T-72. This is not how it works.

    Absurd.
    Actually what's absurd is an idiot bringing zu-23-2 and T-12 and now T-55 into a thread that's for T-80. NOW that's ABSURD it's seems your having some sort of mental issue since been proven wrong which was expecting
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    Re: The T-80s future in the Russian Army

    Post  d_taddei2 on Thu Oct 25, 2018 7:10 pm

    @GarryB I quite agree that keeping a small number that they have in service for artic conditions and would make no sense in designing anything new for such a small need when you already have a piece of equipment that does the job. I was concerned about what is in storage and whats likely to happen to them. Tax payers money spent it would be great to find a solution to selling or using them nothing worse than watching a tank of that spec left to rot.
    eehnie
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    Re: The T-80s future in the Russian Army

    Post  eehnie on Fri Oct 26, 2018 2:30 am

    d_taddei2 wrote:
    eehnie wrote:Under this logic the T-55 would be "better to keep" than the T-80 and the T-72. This is not how it works.

    Absurd.
    Actually what's absurd is an idiot bringing zu-23-2 and T-12 and now T-55 into a thread that's for T-80. NOW that's ABSURD it's seems your having some sort of mental issue since been proven wrong which was expecting

    I do not think your overall argument about exits is logical. To note that you introduced the T-72 previously.

    And after it you are insulting me, contradicting what Vladimir79 said in his message to the forum. dunno dunno
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    Re: The T-80s future in the Russian Army

    Post  GarryB on Fri Oct 26, 2018 5:34 am

    I do not think your overall argument about exits is logical. To note that you introduced the T-72 previously.

    And after it you are insulting me, contradicting what Vladimir79 said in his message to the forum.

    I suspect he is not happy with you for calling him a liar in the other thread with the ZU-23-2 and of making things up and doctoring things.

    In any sort of conflict anywhere that Russia might be involved with a T-80 is not a bad vehicle with the right upgrades and improvements.

    It certainly does not hurt to keep some available for use.

    The fact that they are particularly suited to arctic conditions is a bonus, plus they use all the same ammo that other Soviet tanks use so it is not like having to keep T-62s or T-55s in service because they use different main gun ammo, which means a range of 100mm and 115mm ammo plus guided missile rounds.

    Instead, they can put the T-80s up north, which means they can have more vehicle chewing through the old stocks of 125mm ammo during training and exercises so new ammo can be purchased, which is good for everyone.
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    Re: The T-80s future in the Russian Army

    Post  0nillie0 on Fri Oct 26, 2018 11:27 am

    miketheterrible wrote:I see these models keep the IR searchlight.  None of these models shown have thermal imagers?  I know the BVM ordered have it.

    Perhaps a more traditional infrared night sight with passive/active illumination is considered more reliable when the temperature drops to below -40 degrees celcius or less.

    Perhaps these vehicles are a stop gap measure untill the BVM can be deployed in significant numbers.
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    Re: The T-80s future in the Russian Army

    Post  eehnie on Fri Oct 26, 2018 2:26 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    I do not think your overall argument about exits is logical. To note that you introduced the T-72 previously.

    And after it you are insulting me, contradicting what Vladimir79 said in his message to the forum.

    I suspect he is not happy with you for calling him a liar in the other thread with the ZU-23-2 and of making things up and doctoring things.

    In any sort of conflict anywhere that Russia might be involved with a T-80 is not a bad vehicle with the right upgrades and improvements.

    It certainly does not hurt to keep some available for use.

    The fact that they are particularly suited to arctic conditions is a bonus, plus they use all the same ammo that other Soviet tanks use so it is not like having to keep T-62s or T-55s in service because they use different main gun ammo, which means a range of 100mm and 115mm ammo plus guided missile rounds.

    Instead, they can put the T-80s up north, which means they can have more vehicle chewing through the old stocks of 125mm ammo during training and exercises so new ammo can be purchased, which is good for everyone.

    I did not call him liar, this is not right. I do not think is right to assign to me words that I used not. His insults instead are explicit, and are repeated, not only in these two topics.
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    Re: The T-80s future in the Russian Army

    Post  GarryB on Sat Oct 27, 2018 7:55 am

    Perhaps a more traditional infrared night sight with passive/active illumination is considered more reliable when the temperature drops to below -40 degrees celcius or less.

    Perhaps these vehicles are a stop gap measure untill the BVM can be deployed in significant numbers.

    Didn't they have IR laser lights for the BMP-2 at one stage... it is certainly possible they might be more than just IR lights...

    I did not call him liar, this is not right. I do not think is right to assign to me words that I used not. His insults instead are explicit, and are repeated, not only in these two topics.

    You suggested that people who posted images instead of links had something to hide or were distorting the information by hiding other relevant stuff that might be with the images posted.
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    Re: The T-80s future in the Russian Army

    Post  0nillie0 on Sat Oct 27, 2018 12:49 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    Perhaps a more traditional infrared night sight with passive/active illumination is considered more reliable when the temperature drops to below -40 degrees celcius or less.

    Perhaps these vehicles are a stop gap measure untill the BVM can be deployed in significant numbers.

    Didn't they have IR laser lights for the BMP-2 at one stage... it is certainly possible they might be more than just IR lights...

    Correct me if i am wrong, but i believe you are referring to the PL-1-01 laser beamer which is found on a variety of armored vehicles, including some modernized BMP-2's.


    Judging by the photo's, such a light has not been installed, altough the L-4A Luna IR searchlights are still clearly visible. I believe that the tanks we can see in the pictures are T-80BV's. The sight housing appears to be identical to that of the TPN-3-49 image intensification sight which is the default sighting system for night time for this model. Though we can only speculate without the information available, and the article does mention a guy who is responsible for the "optical and laser sights".

    At any rate, laser beamers are probably more reliable, more durable and offer slightly better performance, but they will not dramatically increase target engagement ranges compared to the traditional IR spotlight.
    So IMHO i dont think there is more than meets the eye in the case of these refurbished tanks at least.

    At least for this batch.
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    Re: The T-80s future in the Russian Army

    Post  eehnie on Sat Oct 27, 2018 8:45 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    I did not call him liar, this is not right. I do not think is right to assign to me words that I used not. His insults instead are explicit, and are repeated, not only in these two topics.

    You suggested  that people who posted images instead of links had something to hide or were distorting the information by hiding other relevant stuff that might be with the images posted.

    More exactly, habitually, who takes the work of doing partial image captures to post them, instead of posting the original links.
    d_taddei2
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    Re: The T-80s future in the Russian Army

    Post  d_taddei2 on Sun Oct 28, 2018 8:36 am

    eehnie wrote:
    GarryB wrote:
    I did not call him liar, this is not right. I do not think is right to assign to me words that I used not. His insults instead are explicit, and are repeated, not only in these two topics.

    You suggested  that people who posted images instead of links had something to hide or were distorting the information by hiding other relevant stuff that might be with the images posted.

    More exactly, habitually, who takes the work of doing partial image captures to post them, instead of posting the original links.
    Already explained to you why but u failed to read because of ur mental illness. 
    U don't accept links eehnie and you don't accept pics and you don't accept experience Infact u don't accept anything from anyone but yourself this is now a FACT everyone can see. Which hampers your own knowledge which is already small and limited and will not grow while you're mindset is in its current mode. Attitude change is severely needed and if it's not mental illness then it's quite clearly bigotry which I think should entail some kind of action from the mods. .
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    Re: The T-80s future in the Russian Army

    Post  eehnie on Sun Oct 28, 2018 11:29 pm

    d_taddei2 wrote:Already explained to you why but u failed to read because of ur mental illness. 
    U don't accept links eehnie and you don't accept pics and you don't accept experience Infact u don't accept anything from anyone but yourself this is now a FACT everyone can see. Which hampers your own knowledge which is already small and limited and will not grow while you're mindset is in its current mode. Attitude change is severely needed and if it's not mental illness then it's quite clearly bigotry which I think should entail some kind of action from the mods. .

    http://www.russiadefence.net/t7624-listen-carefully#238718
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    Re: The T-80s future in the Russian Army

    Post  George1 on Thu Dec 20, 2018 6:05 pm

    Russia’s upgraded T-80BV tank to feature capability of firing depleted uranium shells


    The use of depleted uranium ammunition does not violate any international treaties, expert says

    MOSCOW, December 20. /TASS/. Russia’s T-80BV main battle tank has been upgraded to feature the capability of firing depleted uranium shells, the Defense Ministry said in the bulletin ‘The Russian Army in Comparison’ published on Thursday.

    The bulletin notes that the T-80BVM (the letter M stands for ‘modernized’) features "the improved weapons stabilizer and the loading mechanism for the 3BM59 Svinets-1 and 3BM60 Svinets-2 munitions."

    Open sources suggest that the Svinets-1 armor-piercing fin-stabilized sub-caliber projectile has the core made of tungsten carbide while the Svinets-2 features the uranium alloy core.

    According to various data, the Svinets-1 is capable of piercing 700-740 mm of the homogeneous armor at a distance of 2 km while the Svinets-2 can pierce 800-830 mm at the same distance.

    The information that one of the shells has the depleted uranium core was confirmed to TASS by military expert, Editor-in-Chief of the Arsenal of the Fatherland journal Viktor Murakhovsky. "It has the alloy of the depleted uranium and tungsten," he said, adding that the open sources mentioned it as "the Material B."

    The use of depleted uranium ammunition does not violate any international treaties, the expert said.

    Such munitions are stored outside of the arsenals of military units in the Russian Army and are referred to the category of special stockpiles, he added.

    The US Army also has tank shells with the depleted uranium core, he said.

    In particular, the ammunition load of the US Abrams tank can include M829A1 munitions capable of piercing from 650 mm to 700 mm of the homogenous armor at a distance of 2 km, according to various data. The armor-piercing shells with the tungsten/depleted uranium alloy are more efficient than steel due to their higher density.

    T-80BVM

    The T-80BVM is a further upgrade of the T-80BV tank. The armored vehicle is furnished with the Sosna-U multi-channel gunner sight, the improved 125mm gun 2A46M-4, the upgraded gas turbine engine and the Relikt explosive-reactive armor.

    As the Defense Ministry’s press office reported, T-80BMV tanks have started to arrive for the Russian Army this year.


    More:
    http://tass.com/defense/1036958
    George1
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    Re: The T-80s future in the Russian Army

    Post  George1 on Wed Dec 26, 2018 5:14 pm

    Omsktransmash conducts serial modernization of T-80BVM


    The modernization of T-80BV tanks to the level of T-80BVM is in full swing at the Omsk Transmash.Such a conclusion can be drawn from photographs published on the company's official website. As an illustration to the news material “Virtual tank for schoolchildren - there was a week without turnstiles on Omsktransmash”, published on October 22, there are a couple of interesting photos.

    On the first photo schoolchildren in the tank workshop next to the torn-off T-80BV, received from the troops. But on the second - already in the refurbished and otmodernizirovannogo body with DZ "Relikt" on the 'VLD' - this is the T-80BVM.
    Earlier it was reported that the package of contracts of Uralvagonzavod in 2017 includes the modernization of 62 t-80B tanks to the level of T-80BVM with delivery of 31 units in 2018 and 2019.





    https://gurkhan.blogspot.com/2018/11/80.html?fbclid=IwAR3Hu0lLR1GcTuGvFtzX0SKrETbF7AMHLA4Br_eNVlRJBoWJhv3ygIW_uQY
    George1
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    Re: The T-80s future in the Russian Army

    Post  George1 on Wed Jan 30, 2019 1:40 pm

    Modernized tank T-80BM




    The destruction of serial tank factories in St. Petersburg and Omsk in the mid-1990s led to the monopolistic position of Uralvagonzavod in terms of not only production, but also the development of heavy armored vehicles in Russia. The role of the head developer passed to the more recent underdog - the Ural design bureau of transport engineering. Various versions of the T-90 and the modernization of the T-72 type tanks, the designs of the UKBTM are well known for their shows at the Ural arms exhibitions. At the same time, the development of "competitors": KBTM and KB "Spetsmash" remained in the shadows. However, 10 years ago, these design teams offered options for upgrading T-80 type tanks, the level of which is exemplary today. The T-80BM tank modernized by Petersburg “Spetsmash” became indicative in this regard.

    Work on the complex modernization of the T-80BV tank (OCR "Motobol") was carried out in 2006-2008. Modernization, with the exception of armor structures, underwent almost all the components of the combat vehicle.

    In the process of modernization, the tank, designated T-80BM (Item 219M), was equipped with the following complexes, systems and units:

    • A 45M fire control complex consisting of: a 1G46M, IUS 1V558 device, a 2E42M stabilizer, a metering device for bending the barrel of an UUI-2 and a night vision device from the Commander Agat-MD;

    • Complex dynamic protection and means of reducing visibility. "Relic";

    • A mine action protection system (SPMZ) with an electromagnetic fuse;

    • Complex active protection T-08-A5-1;

    • Modified KUV 9K119;

    • Elements of Ainet equipment;

    • Software and hardware complex ASUTB PTK-T-2;

    • Thermal imaging device "Plisa";

    • Elements of KOEP "Shtora-2";

    • High-speed system PPO 3EC and two GOA-19 in the logistics department;

    • Gun 2A46M-4;

    • Auxiliary unit GTA-18A;

    • 6P49 anti-aircraft machine gun with a ROM-7;

    • Air intake;

    • Device "digger-screen-straight";

    • Mirrors rearview driver;

    • Night vision device TVN-5.


    A modernized T-80BM tank with a 1A45 fire control system would have enhanced (relative to the T-80U and T-90 tanks) indicators of the main combat properties: firepower and protection (integration of dynamic, active and individual protection, use of mine protection and deforming paint ).

    The property of command controllability has been implemented, based on an information system, automating the processes of fire and movement control (maneuver) of a tank unit, monitoring the technical condition of the unit’s machines (for fuel, ammunition and technical maintenance of main tank systems).

    OAO Spetsmash, together with co-contractors, developed design documentation and assembled a prototype of a modernized T-80BM tank. The direct assembly was carried out at the capacity of 61 BTRZ.

    The T-80BM had outstanding characteristics, exceeding in many respects the Urals modernized T-72B2 tank (Item 184M), created in the framework of the design and development works “Slingshot-1” (stage 2).

    However, further work on the T-80BM by the decision of the GABTU in 2008 was stopped.

    An attempt to revive the work was undertaken by the leadership of "Spetsmash" in June 2010. In general, it should be noted that the milestone of the end of 2009 - the first half of 2010 was crucial for the Russian tank construction. The decisions made then slowed down the rearmament of the RF Ground Forces to promising and modernized products for at least another decade.

    Below, I propose a push-up from the “Proposals on the formulation of experimental design work on the modernization of the T-80BV tanks being supplied by the Russian Defense Ministry”, dated by June 2010.

    “The purpose of accomplishing the R & D is to increase the combat and operational characteristics of the T-80BV tanks based on the introduction of advanced achievements of domestic science and the use of the existing scientific and technical reserve of Spetsmash based on the results of the R & D project“ Improvement-2 ”,“ Relict ”,“ Motobol ”,“ Arena "," Slider ".

    The state of January 1, 2009, of the design documentation and the prototype T-80BM manufactured earlier, made it possible to perform design and development work in 1.5 years with preparation for preliminary tests, preliminary and state tests and development of documentation for mass production.

    Major modernization activities include:

    a) Equipping tanks with a thermal lens “Plisa”.

    The sight is manufactured in series, in a prototype tank T-80BM installed.

    b) Equipping tanks with software and hardware complexes PTK (with instrumentation of command control for work as part of the ESU TZ). Design documentation is available, PTK samples within the RZD "Slider" underwent preliminary and state tests, interdepartmental tests are being completed, and operational-military operation is being carried out. PTK in the prototype tank T-80BM installed.

    c) Application of the modernized fire control complex 1А4-1. Design documentation approved for mass production.

    d) Installation of protection with enhanced performance, including:

    1) Built-in dynamic protection and means of masking from OCR "Relikt". There is a batch production documentation. In the prototype tank T-80BM installed.

    2) The complex of individual protection from the ROC "Shtora-2". Design documentation developed. In the prototype tank T-80BM installed.

    3) The system of electromagnetic protection from the ROC "Improvement - 88". Design documentation developed. Protection modification passed preliminary tests. In the prototype tank T-80BM installed.

    e) Installation in the tank of the 9K119M guided-armament complex instead of the dismantled 9K112, as well as the installation of serial component parts: 2A46M-4 guns (instead of 2A46M), a closed-type anti-aircraft gun, air intake unit, GTA-18A gas turbine unit.

    Additionally, work can be performed to improve the characteristics of the upgraded tank by using the approved reserve in part:

    - the installation of the hydrovolume mechanism of rotation and steering to it (there is a prototype, modification of the prototype has passed state tests);

    - creation of a high-power motor-power plant with a 1400 hp gas turbine engine.

    - the onboard information and control system of the tank chassis, which increases the efficiency of using the main gas turbine engine (there is a prototype installed in the tank chassis).

    The main components of raising KWT:

    - firepower (increased shooting accuracy, rate of fire, detecting abilities, closed memory, laser range finder and automatic correction input for firing from the commander’s place);

    - protection (complexing of dynamic, active and individual protection, use of mine protection and deforming paint);

    - command controllability (installed software and hardware complex PTK-T-2 for a linear tank and created a digital connection between equipment PTK and KUO for two-way transmission of intelligence data and target designation, as well as elements of robotized

    After 10 years, we see that practically nothing of these proposals in the series has been implemented. The modernized T-80BVM tank demonstrated at the Zapad-2017 exercises in 2017 only partially uses the modernization reserve that was available at the Spetsmash at the beginning of 2009. Completion of the T-80BVM, judging by the images submitted by the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation, is even poorer. The tank fleet of the Russian Ground Forces, despite the massive influx of modernized T-72B3 and T-72B3M in the period 2011-2018, can in no way be called modern due to the inferiority of these samples, not corresponding to the level of modern armored vehicles like the West and now also of China.

    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3512111.html
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    calripson

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    Monetarists

    Post  calripson on Wed Jan 30, 2019 7:12 pm

    They didn't modernize in 2008-2010 because Kudrin and his ilk were afraid to spend money post-2008 financial crisis. They don't order more Armata, Su 57, naval ships today because of the same elements despite running a $30 billion 2018 surplus.
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    Re: The T-80s future in the Russian Army

    Post  miketheterrible on Wed Jan 30, 2019 7:17 pm

    Kudrin was gone by then. Kicked out by Medvedev.

    The best option for Russia is to set limits on what they will spend and work with it. We may not always agree on the amount but it isn't peanuts either.
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    Re: The T-80s future in the Russian Army

    Post  GarryB on Thu Jan 31, 2019 2:43 am

    So to be clear new generation thermals, Relick ERA, active IED jammer (SPMZ), Arena APS, Shtora-2 ESM, and Improvement 88, which seems to be EM protection... basically a new version of Nahkidka... plus not only a more powerful gas turbine main engine (1400hp), but also an APU GT... which is very very important.

    A 1,400hp GT engine will burn a lot of fuel even running at idle and in the arctic you can't turn off the main engine or you will freeze... plus you can't use EO systems and the various computers and sensors you need... but constantly running a 1,400hp GT would burn enormous amounts of fuel and part of the reason most T-80 units are so expensive to operate. A tiny GT that burns a fraction of the fuel of the main engine but allows important systems and heating to be kept on saves an enormous amount of fuel yet allows the vehicle to be ready for immediate start up even in extreme cold (by electrically heating the main engine for a fast start if needed).
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    Re: The T-80s future in the Russian Army

    Post  xeno on Thu Jan 31, 2019 4:51 am

    I read it yesterday, very disgusting article.
    "Completion of the T-80BVM, judging by the images submitted by the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation, is even poorer"
    His beloved T-80BM cannot even fire Lead-1(over 700 RHA penetration) and Lead-2(over 800mm RHA penetration) with Gun 2A46M-4, while T-80BVM can and will with Gun 2A46M-5, this alone is better than anything else combined he boasted for T-80BM with old and poor ammos, which can only penetrate not more than 500mm RHA.
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    Re: The T-80s future in the Russian Army

    Post  miketheterrible on Thu Jan 31, 2019 6:49 am

    Who cares. It's a blog.  They have over exaggerated every time.

    The fact that one of our mods here uses it so much is testimount to the amateur reporting going on.

    They used China as an example yet China's tanks are usually shit as seen multiple of times were a new tank loses a track on it's own or I'm Perus case, a turret falls off.  None are combat approved either.
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    Kudrin

    Post  calripson on Thu Jan 31, 2019 3:55 pm

    I was not referring to Kudrin's official capacity - I was using him as an example. I assure you he and his ideological compatriots are far from gone.
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    Re: The T-80s future in the Russian Army

    Post  George1 on Mon Feb 25, 2019 12:06 pm

    Upgraded T-80BVM tank with enhanced protection


    An interesting photograph of an upgraded T-80BVM tank, equipped, in addition to the Relict dynamic protection kit on the turret, also with a new set of mounted dynamic protection in soft containers along the hull sides. Until recently, this “bag” dynamic protection was applied only on modernized T-72B3 tanks of the so-called model of 2016, but now, apparently, it is being widely distributed to tanks of the Armed Forces of Russia.


    Upgraded T-80BVM tank with enhanced protection (c) otvaga2004.mybb.ru


    Recall that on August 24, 2017, Uralvagonzavod Research and Production Corporation JSC signed a contract with the Russian Ministry of Defense to upgrade 62 T-80B tanks to T-80BVM (with a delivery of 31 units in 2018 and 2019).

    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3544894.html

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    Re: The T-80s future in the Russian Army

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