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    The T-80s future in the Russian Army

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    medo
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    Re: The T-80s future in the Russian Army

    Post  medo on Sun Aug 05, 2012 10:03 am

    Getting rid of T-55, T-62 ans T-64, which are old, is one thing, but getting rid of T-80, which is no worse and no older than T-72 is another. I know, T-72 and T-90 have a lot in common, so they should be used in active units, while T-80 should be stored in reserves. Russian T-80 were produced in Omsk, which is now under UVZ and this factory still repair and maintain those tanks. For Russia it is quite important to have enough tanks in reserves for a case of war, because 2000 active tanks is not enough.

    Don't forget, reserve tanks could be stored in different locations, so they will not need to drive 2000 km, because you could have some of them stored much nearer and ready for war.

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    Re: The T-80s future in the Russian Army

    Post  TR1 on Sun Aug 05, 2012 8:35 pm

    The issue is there are way more T-72s than just in active units, not to even include T-80s. So it makes sense to streamline the force while reflecting realistic force structure.

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    Re: The T-80s future in the Russian Army

    Post  GarryB on Mon Aug 06, 2012 9:32 am

    AFAIK they have plenty of T-72s, and while the T-80 is not the worst tank in the world it is very vulnerable because of its autoloader design... this was repeated in Chechnia several times.

    There was talk of sending all the T-80s to Naval units.

    The problem with keeping it in service is that all the different components need to be kept in storage, their original plan was because it was a good tank to simply use it till it wears out and replace it with T-72/90s from storage (after upgrades).

    In other words it will be a tank that is used for training and exercises... AFAIK the old procedure was to use older model tanks for training to save wear and tear on the newer vehicles.

    The plans as far as I know are for about 6,000 tanks in storage and 2,000 in service. The CFE limit for western Russia is something like 6,000 tanks of which only a small number can be operational and the rest must be in storage.


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    Re: The T-80s future in the Russian Army

    Post  George1 on Wed Jul 10, 2013 12:08 am

    The better to do is to keep them for training as new tank enter production

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    Re: The T-80s future in the Russian Army

    Post  GarryB on Wed Jul 10, 2013 11:53 am

    The Army policy seems to be to use them till they wear out and then dispose of them without introducing more.


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    Re: The T-80s future in the Russian Army

    Post  TR1 on Wed Nov 13, 2013 8:11 am

    http://s6.uploads.ru/QFBP3.jpg

    Some T-80BVs in service got repaired with GTD-1250 engines. Imagine that weight-HP ratio!

    It's too bad MOD apparently stopped any serious T-80 upgrading.

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    Re: The T-80s future in the Russian Army

    Post  flamming_python on Wed Nov 13, 2013 8:36 am

    TR1 wrote:http://s6.uploads.ru/QFBP3.jpg

    Some T-80BVs in service got repaired with GTD-1250 engines. Imagine that weight-HP ratio!

    It's too bad MOD apparently stopped any serious T-80 upgrading.
    Russia should exchange as many of its T-80s as possible for the Ukraine's T-72s. If we focus on the ones in good condition then several hundred tanks can be exchanged.
    It makes more sense that way because the Ukraine is more focused on the T-80s and their modernisation anyway; while Russia is more focused on the T-72s.

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    Re: The T-80s future in the Russian Army

    Post  TR1 on Wed Nov 13, 2013 9:17 am

    What's the point?

    We got way more T-72s than we actively operate anyways, and Ukraine does not have that many T-72Bs left. Russia has more newer, better stored ones available for upgrade.
    Ukraine is focusing on upgrading the T-64 Bulat right now, they don't operate many T-80s and don't really have the funds to operate them either.

    Now I see the logic behind Russia getting rid of the T-80 once service hours run out, but on the other hand if they were able to put GTD-1250 on them without a problem, it couldn't be terribly expensive to re-cap and modestly upgrade them. I guess we need to wait to see how Armata turns out.

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    Re: The T-80s future in the Russian Army

    Post  medo on Wed Nov 13, 2013 10:23 am

    I think Russia retire their T-80 fleet mostly because they close tank factory in Omsk, which produce T-80 tanks.

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    Re: The T-80s future in the Russian Army

    Post  flamming_python on Wed Nov 13, 2013 10:31 am

    TR1 wrote:What's the point?
    There isn't one really. It's just exchanging one type of surplus tank that we don't need, for another type of surplus tank that we don't need a little less.

    But alas you're right that's it's probably not worth the trouble.

    Now I see the logic behind Russia getting rid of the T-80 once service hours run out, but on the other hand if they were able to put GTD-1250 on them without a problem, it couldn't be terribly expensive to re-cap and modestly upgrade them. I guess we need to wait to see how Armata turns out.
    The problem with the T-80 is its autoloader; with the vertically stacked propellent charges and everything. Basically - the T-80 would be excellent if not for this; but the problem is that it's only possible to replace the autoloader via an extensive upgrade. Something like the T-84 Oplot-M I guess; only as an upgrade of the T-80U and not the T-80UD.

    Naturally, this is all far more expensive than simply upgrading existing T-72s with new instruments, optics and reactive armour.

    It would be more on the level of the T-90MS; only as an upgrade for existing tanks, and not a new build. Which is the sort of thing that the Russian military already rejected when it came to the T-72 Rogatka.
    The upgrades are expensive, but the tanks won't last all that much longer as they've been around for decades already. Therefore the cost vs benefit just isn't there.

    What might be good though is for some kind of new JV between Russia and the Ukraine, for upgrading Russia's and the Ukraine's stocks of T-80s with a new autoloader and other enhancements (not quite to the level of the T-84s though); and then exporting them to third countries. Would be better than any upgraded T-72s, and cheaper than a T-90.


    Last edited by flamming_python on Wed Nov 13, 2013 3:07 pm; edited 4 times in total

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    Re: The T-80s future in the Russian Army

    Post  flamming_python on Wed Nov 13, 2013 10:34 am

    medo wrote:I think Russia retire their T-80 fleet mostly because they close tank factory in Omsk, which produce T-80 tanks.
    It's not closed, it just doesn't produce T-80s anymore. It still services them though and produces some stuff based on their chassis.

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    T-80 Production

    Post  TR1 on Wed Nov 13, 2013 10:43 am

    medo wrote:I think Russia retire their T-80 fleet mostly because they close tank factory in Omsk, which produce T-80 tanks.
    They can still repair T-80s just fine, they were doing so until recently. The decision is mostly based on operating costs and unifying of tank fleet.

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    Re: The T-80s future in the Russian Army

    Post  George1 on Tue Nov 26, 2013 8:42 pm

    T-80s could be a cheap offer to some poor countries. Ex soviet countries, Africa, vietnam, north korea etc

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    Re: The T-80s future in the Russian Army

    Post  TR1 on Tue Nov 26, 2013 9:32 pm

    T-80 is pretty far away from cheap in any sense of the word.

    Russia has so many T-72s laying around, they would make much more sense for a financially-conservative customer.

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    Re: The T-80s future in the Russian Army

    Post  Stealthflanker on Wed Nov 27, 2013 1:18 pm

    Sorry if this bit off topic.. but I noticed this thing in MP.net..someone saying that T-72 engine took 2 days for replacing engine while Leo-2 took only 30 minutes.

    Is that for real ?

    Honestly i found it rather unbelieveable.

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    Re: The T-80s future in the Russian Army

    Post  Regular on Wed Nov 27, 2013 1:35 pm

    T-72 engine takes about 2 hours to replace, if I recall correctly. Leo-2 engine is really fast to replace, but not so good at field repairs when You only need to fix minor things.
    T-72 is not the most troublesome tank when it comes to repairs, I believe T-80 were a pain in the arse.

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    Re: The T-80s future in the Russian Army

    Post  GarryB on Wed Nov 27, 2013 10:49 pm

    @Stealthflanker who on mpnet was saying this?

    If it was Jippo then I would believe him as he was in a T-72 for some time, but if it was someone else find out if it was something they read somewhere.

    Also find out whose tank it was... the jet engines for an Su-30 would take months to overhaul if it was a New Zealand Flanker because we would have to remove it and ship it back to Russia for an overhaul. In Russia it would not take that long.

    BTW I have read that the gas turbine of the T-80 is a relatively simple thing to maintain but that its high fuel and oil costs make it expensive to run.


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    Re: The T-80s future in the Russian Army

    Post  Stealthflanker on Wed Nov 27, 2013 10:56 pm

    GarryB wrote:@Stealthflanker who on mpnet was saying this?

    If it was Jippo then I would believe him as he was in a T-72 for some time, but if it was someone else find out if it was something they read somewhere.

    see it yourself.
    http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?232671-Poland-purchase-119-Leopard-2-tanks-from-Germany&p=6932908&viewfull=1#post6932908

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    Re: The T-80s future in the Russian Army

    Post  TR1 on Thu Nov 28, 2013 12:34 am

    Yeah he is full of crap.


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    Re: The T-80s future in the Russian Army

    Post  GarryB on Thu Nov 28, 2013 3:43 am

    It must be true... he probably saw it on a Discovery Channel documentary about Abrams tanks... Rolling Eyes 


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    Re: The T-80s future in the Russian Army

    Post  collegeboy16 on Thu Nov 28, 2013 12:40 pm

    BS... if the T-72 engine took 2 days to replace there wouldnt have been any T-72. Also, the engine is a derivative of WW2 T-34 engine, cant get any more robust than that. Its also not humongous, and you could go and strip engine and replace individual parts imo much easier since its not a single block lumped w/ transmission, cooling etc.

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    Re: The T-80s future in the Russian Army

    Post  George1 on Fri Dec 27, 2013 1:52 am

    question: All T-80 have withdrawn from service and put in storage??

    http://warfare.be/db/catid/244/linkid/1776/title/t-80-mbt

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    Re: The T-80s future in the Russian Army

    Post  TR1 on Fri Dec 27, 2013 1:37 pm

    George1 wrote:question: All T-80 have withdrawn from service and put in storage??

    http://warfare.be/db/catid/244/linkid/1776/title/t-80-mbt

    Absolutely not, but if the recent T-72 kapremont numbers are to be believed, then they are rushing to take T-72s out of reserves, and replace T-80s with them.

    If this keeps up within a year or two the T-80 could be completely gone.

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    Re: The T-80s future in the Russian Army

    Post  a89 on Mon Dec 30, 2013 1:13 am

    T-80s are supposed to be retired by 2015. A shame in my opinion, as there is a large fleet available that could easily be modernized. 1A33 FCS is quite decent and only needs a thermal sight. OTOH T-72 needs an entire FCS.

    http://www.military-informant.com/index.php/army/3585-1.html

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    Re: The T-80s future in the Russian Army

    Post  runaway on Fri Jan 03, 2014 7:58 pm

    12.2013 All T-80 were withdrawn from service. (MoD)
    In December 2013, the Russian Ground Forces withdrew the entire T-80 fleet from service due to maintenance expenses, with all 4,500 now in storage.

    The 2nd Guards Tamanskaya Motor Rifle Division has for example been rearmed from T-80 to T-90. As for the 4th Guards Kantemirovskaya Tank Division, iam not sure.

    Not so hard to belive, it would be wise to put T-80 in storage, and it should stay there as reserve. As modernized T-72´s is a better tank with common parts with T-90.
    The russian army has roughly 2500-3000 active tanks, and T-55, T-62, T-64, T-80 is being taken out of service for service life, ease of maintenence and logistics.

    As for export, no chance, customers will chose T-72 or T-90 instead.

    In 2008, the 58th Army and peace keepers in  South Ossetia had T-90, T-72 and T-62 no T-80 what i have read, bad reputation from chechnya i guess.

    "The T-80 performed so poorly that General-Lieutenant A. Galkin, the head of the Armor Directorate, convinced the Minister of Defence after the conflict to never again procure tanks with gas-turbine engines"

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