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    Belarus Ground Forces

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    Militarov
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    Re: Belarus Ground Forces

    Post  Militarov on Tue Apr 05, 2016 10:49 pm



    "Tests are being conducted of the «Caiman» Light Armoured Reconnaissance Vehicle for the Belorussian Interior Ministry’s Interior Troops and and foreign buyers.

    «Caiman» Light Armoured Reconnaissance Vehicle have a diesel engine D-245 with electronic fuel control and reinforced five-speed manual transmission. Independent torsion bar suspension, axles, wheel gearboxes designers borrowed from the BTR-60. Armored vehicle “Cayman” have weight of no more than seven tons (with six crew members and weapons) and has a top speed on the highway 110 kilometers per hour. Power reserve is about 1,000 kilometers ."




    Source: http://defence-blog.com/army/test-driving-a-new-belorussian-caiman-light-armoured-reconnaissance-vehicle.html

    Call me crazy but it reminds me abit of Serbian BOV M11


    d_taddei2
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    Re: Belarus Ground Forces

    Post  d_taddei2 on Sun Apr 10, 2016 2:54 pm

    Ok so this looks like a stretched BDRM-2 or a GAZ Vodnik and as already stated similar to bov m11. Good on them for trying and it looks reasonable. But Russia already stocks better. Belarus has made some useful items the shershan ATGW and the new MLRS system the only other thing I liked but never went into production was the 2T stalker.

    So we know that the Belarusian air force and air defence isn't that great but what of its ground forces??? Are they any good??? What's the training like? ??? Views Welcome

    Kadmos45
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    Re: Belarus Ground Forces

    Post  Kadmos45 on Mon Apr 11, 2016 2:32 pm

    d_taddei2 wrote:

    So we know that the Belarusian air force and air defence isn't that great but what of its ground forces???

    Lulwhat ?

    Is this some sort of flamebait ?

    If not then name me 5 countries with better AF and ADF in Europe of the size of Belarus.

    d_taddei2
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    Post  d_taddei2 on Tue Apr 12, 2016 12:00 pm

    Kadmos45 wrote:
    d_taddei2 wrote:

    So we know that the Belarusian air force and air defence isn't that great but what of its ground forces???

    Lulwhat ?

    Is this some sort of flamebait ?

    If not then name me 5 countries with better AF and ADF in Europe of the size of Belarus.

    so your saying 37x Mig-29   (of which 13 are BM version) and god knows what state the rest are in and Su-25(not SM level) would be suffice against NATO? what you forget even the Belarusians realise their airforce isn't what it should be, and you also forget that most european countries are in NATO so if there ever was conflict it would be against one country or even two, it would be against NATO. Indeed they have better AF and ADF than the likes of Estonia, Lithuania, and Latvia, but that isn't exactly hard. The Mig-29 they have should be upgraded to SMT/M2 level if the airframes are ok, and Su-25 upgraded also,  they could have even brought back into service 12 Su-24 and 12 Su-27 and have them upgraded then you would have a good capable airforce. Its airdefence does need upgrading, Pantsir, and upgraded Tor, Buk, and S-300 and your sorted. Also you forgot to answer the question whats your views on its ground forces????

    as for your question without going too much into researchng it, i would say Netherlands, Denmark, Greece, Finland, Poland, and i think even some smaller countries like Portugal, Austria, Switzerland, could still prove to be a handful, also depends on what you mean by size. Also having a certain amount of aircraft doesn't mean it would be a great airforce it ultimately boils down to maintenance, training/flying hours, and just how good the pilots are. Another thing to consider is Belarus's defence budget, around $2bn, isn't a huge amount for the size of its force, then maintenance could be questioned. I however think Belarus pilots possibly dont get as much training as they should, as for ground forces they seem to be fairly good.

    Kadmos45
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    Re: Belarus Ground Forces

    Post  Kadmos45 on Tue Apr 12, 2016 3:01 pm

    d_taddei2 wrote:

    so your saying 37x Mig-29   (of which 13 are BM version) and god knows what state the rest are in and Su-25(not SM level) would be suffice against NATO?

    I'm saying you are either joking or else. Are you aware that you compare single Belarus to entire NATO ? This is not reasonable to put it mildly. You should compare Russia + Belarus at least .Belarus military airspace is integrated with Russian one.

    d_taddei2 wrote:
    what you forget even the Belarusians realise their airforce isn't what it should be, and you also forget that most european countries are in NATO so if there ever was conflict it would be against one country or even two, it would be against NATO.

    Things always can be better. For one small, not really rich country it is more than adequate.
    And you are basically saying that small Belarus have worse Airforce than entire NATO.
    I could compare Estonia AF to Russia's but it would be senseless.
    Like i said Belarus military airspace is integrated with Russian one. If you really want to compare it to entire NATO then add Russia to equation.

    d_taddei2 wrote:
    Also you forgot to answer the question whats your views on its ground forces????

    I didn't forget anything. It was not question to me. But belarus ground forces are perfectly adequate for its tasks.Of course there is always something that could be better, more modern ( too many old 72B etc.)and so on.

    d_taddei2 wrote:
    as for your question without going too much into researchng it, i would say Netherlands, Denmark, Greece, Finland, Poland, and i think even some smaller countries like Portugal, Austria, Switzerland, could still prove to be a handful,

    The only country in Europe in NATO that is comparable or smaller to Belarus and have much bigger airforce is Greece ( for obvious reasons).
    There is no such comparable country with better ADF though , even by the long shot.


    d_taddei2 wrote:
    also depends on what you mean by size. Also having a certain amount of aircraft doesn't mean it would be a great airforce it ultimately boils down to maintenance, training/flying hours, and just how good the pilots are. Another thing to consider is Belarus's defence budget, around $2bn, isn't a huge amount for the size of its force, then maintenance could be questioned. I however think Belarus pilots possibly dont get as much training as they should, as for ground forces they seem to be fairly good.

    That can be said about everyone. It can be said about Belgium, Netherland, Finland etc.
    And why do you think that Belarus pilots have less training ? Do you have access to their flight logs, or it is just your hunch ?

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    Re: Belarus Ground Forces

    Post  d_taddei2 on Tue Apr 12, 2016 6:49 pm

    Kadmos45 wrote:
    d_taddei2 wrote:

    so your saying 37x Mig-29   (of which 13 are BM version) and god knows what state the rest are in and Su-25(not SM level) would be suffice against NATO?

    I'm saying you are either joking or else. Are you aware that you compare single Belarus to entire NATO ? This is not reasonable to put it mildly. You should compare Russia + Belarus at least .Belarus military airspace is integrated with Russian one.

    d_taddei2 wrote:
    what you forget even the Belarusians realise their airforce isn't what it should be, and you also forget that most european countries are in NATO so if there ever was conflict it would be against one country or even two, it would be against NATO.

    Things always can be better. For one small, not really rich country it is more than adequate.
    And you are basically saying that small Belarus have worse Airforce than entire NATO.
    I could compare Estonia AF to Russia's but it would be senseless.
    Like i said Belarus military airspace is integrated with Russian one. If you really want to compare it to entire NATO then add Russia to equation.

    d_taddei2 wrote:
    Also you forgot to answer the question whats your views on its ground forces????

    I didn't forget anything. It was not question to me. But belarus ground forces are perfectly adequate for its tasks.Of course there is always something that could be better, more modern ( too many old 72B etc.)and so on.

    d_taddei2 wrote:
    as for your question without going too much into researchng it, i would say Netherlands, Denmark, Greece, Finland, Poland, and i think even some smaller countries like Portugal, Austria, Switzerland, could still prove to be a handful,

    The only country in Europe in NATO that is comparable or smaller to Belarus and have much bigger airforce is Greece ( for obvious reasons).
    There is no such comparable country with better ADF though , even by the long shot.


    d_taddei2 wrote:
    also depends on what you mean by size. Also having a certain amount of aircraft doesn't mean it would be a great airforce it ultimately boils down to maintenance, training/flying hours, and just how good the pilots are. Another thing to consider is Belarus's defence budget, around $2bn, isn't a huge amount for the size of its force, then maintenance could be questioned. I however think Belarus pilots possibly dont get as much training as they should, as for ground forces they seem to be fairly good.

    That can be said about everyone. It can be said about Belgium, Netherland, Finland etc.
    And why do you think that Belarus pilots have less training ? Do you have access to their flight logs, or it is just your hunch ?

    firstly it was you who blew this all out of proportion also the post asked for views on ground force not anything else and YES this was the question to the forum and i believe that you are part of the forum yes?
    also i quote "i think that Belarus pilots possibly dont get as much training as they should" two key words there that you obviously did not pick up on think and possibly. So i never said it was gospel did I????

    I also never said that it wasn't intergrated into Russian air defence network and like i said if there was conflict then it would be a NATO issue. I think honestly that you have taken this way off course, either way you look at it Belarus AF and ADF does need some improvement, and like i also said this is down to budget constraints than anything else. I actually think Belarus has a good armed forces and like i also said i liked some of there home grown products, (you will notice that i mention a lot "I also mentioned" which is a good indication of people not reading the previous posts properly).

    So as you say the Belarusian ground forces are capable but still need some improvements, so what would you suggest they improve?????

    sepheronx
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    Re: Belarus Ground Forces

    Post  sepheronx on Tue Apr 12, 2016 7:22 pm

    Newer equipment such as:
    - T-72B3M or outright wait for Armata as they are more capable against western armor.
    - Newer aircraft. Lean and mean is correct for Belarus, but newer crafts are needed. Su-30SM may enter Belarus airforce to replace MiG-29 series. Although waiting for PAK FA may be ideal.
    - Ratnik like program. Since number of ground troops is small, make it mandatory for all troops.
    - More modern electronic warfare and early warning system. To have the edge in technology against the enemy.

    Just some IMO.

    d_taddei2
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    Post  d_taddei2 on Wed Apr 13, 2016 1:26 am

    sepheronx wrote:Newer equipment such as:
    - T-72B3M or outright wait for Armata as they are more capable against western armor.
    - Newer aircraft. Lean and mean is correct for Belarus, but newer crafts are needed. Su-30SM may enter Belarus airforce to replace MiG-29 series. Although waiting for PAK FA may be ideal.
    - Ratnik like program. Since number of ground troops is small, make it mandatory for all troops.
    - More modern electronic warfare and early warning system. To have the edge in technology against the enemy.

    Just some IMO.

    i think upgrading their stocks of:

    T-72 to T-72B3M (as you said)
    BMP-1 and BMP-2. Purchase BMP-3M including 2S31 "Vena" and a mix of 9P157-2 "Khrizantema-S and 9P163M-1 "Kornet-T.
    BTR-80 to BTR-82AM, and replace their BTR-70 with BTR-82A also purchase 2S23 Nona-SVK
    Tocka and buy additional Iskander or replace Tocka with Iskander and keep Tocka with reserve forces.
    BM-21
    2S1
    2S3 or buy 2S19 M-sta
    buy more Polonez MLRS (Belarusian MLRS)
    buy TIGR-M including Kornet-D/EM
    buy some of their locally produced Caiman armoured recce.
    and upgrade what they can on Air defence, SA-8, SA-13, Tor, BUK, S-300 and Tunguska,  and buy Pantsir.
    Upgrade their Mig-29 to SMT/M2 level depending on airframe condition, or purchase Mig-35
    upgrade their Su-25
    and buy one squadron of Su-30SM.
    upgrade Mi-24 or replace with Mi-35M

    and like you mentioned some good EW equipment/vehicles/aircraft and your sorted. I know this sounds like a lot but most of it is upgrades, most expensive thing on here is the Su-30SM, Mig-35(if you choose it) and Mi-35M (if you choose it)

    George1
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    Re: Belarus Ground Forces

    Post  George1 on Mon Apr 18, 2016 11:35 pm

    New armored vehicle from MZKT



    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/1857293.html


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    d_taddei2
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    Post  d_taddei2 on Mon Apr 18, 2016 11:47 pm

    George1 wrote:New armored vehicle from MZKT



    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/1857293.html

    nice but yet again this is something similar to what Russia sells (TIGR-M) i still think they would be better doing joint ventures with Russia so then both countries would benefit and place order, Belarus will be lucky to get any decent amount of orders from this. If they are hell bent on producing items on their own at least try and produce something that will appeal to Russia and other countries that way they would actually get some decent orders. or even focus on a missing niche in the market so Belarus could became a leader in that niche, i believe they have the potential to do this.

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    Re: Belarus Ground Forces

    Post  George1 on Tue Apr 19, 2016 12:06 am

    it looks more similar also to "Volk"


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    Re: Belarus Ground Forces

    Post  zg18 on Sat Apr 23, 2016 8:44 pm

    New gear of Belarussian infantry, from recent CSTO exercises




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    Re: Belarus Ground Forces

    Post  zg18 on Sat Apr 30, 2016 6:03 pm

    Tank crews got some action



    Air defence



    MZKT and test drive




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    Re: Belarus Ground Forces

    Post  zg18 on Sat Apr 30, 2016 6:05 pm

    CSTO in Tajikistan



    Army spetsnaz


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    Re: Belarus Ground Forces

    Post  George1 on Sun Jun 12, 2016 11:19 am

    In Belarus, state tests completed of MLRS "Polonaise"



    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/1955797.html



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    Re: Belarus Ground Forces

    Post  zg18 on Thu Jun 16, 2016 5:16 pm

    Heavy MLRS "Polonez" in action




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    Re: Belarus Ground Forces

    Post  KiloGolf on Thu Jun 16, 2016 5:28 pm

    d_taddei2 wrote:
    Kadmos45 wrote:
    d_taddei2 wrote:

    So we know that the Belarusian air force and air defence isn't that great but what of its ground forces???

    Lulwhat ?

    Is this some sort of flamebait ?

    If not then name me 5 countries with better AF and ADF in Europe of the size of Belarus.

    so your saying 37x Mig-29   (of which 13 are BM version) and god knows what state the rest are in and Su-25(not SM level) would be suffice against NATO? what you forget even the Belarusians realise their airforce isn't what it should be, and you also forget that most european countries are in NATO so if there ever was conflict it would be against one country or even two, it would be against NATO. Indeed they have better AF and ADF than the likes of Estonia, Lithuania, and Latvia, but that isn't exactly hard. The Mig-29 they have should be upgraded to SMT/M2 level if the airframes are ok, and Su-25 upgraded also,  they could have even brought back into service 12 Su-24 and 12 Su-27 and have them upgraded then you would have a good capable airforce. Its airdefence does need upgrading, Pantsir, and upgraded Tor, Buk, and S-300 and your sorted. Also you forgot to answer the question whats your views on its ground forces????

    as for your question without going too much into researchng it, i would say Netherlands, Denmark, Greece, Finland, Poland, and i think even some smaller countries like Portugal, Austria, Switzerland, could still prove to be a handful, also depends on what you mean by size. Also having a certain amount of aircraft doesn't mean it would be a great airforce it ultimately boils down to maintenance, training/flying hours, and just how good the pilots are. Another thing to consider is Belarus's defence budget, around $2bn, isn't a huge amount for the size of its force, then maintenance could be questioned. I however think Belarus pilots possibly dont get as much training as they should, as for ground forces they seem to be fairly good.

    Yeap, Belarus is something akin to the Baltic in that regard, minus the need for asking Russia to guard their airspace with QRA Fulcrums. About 13 of their own Fulcrums should be serviceable. Basically they have no real Air Force for war purposes and their strike capability is non-existent. As frontier country vs NATO having CAS assets like a dozen old Su-25 is not exactly a priority. These will be shot off the sky in a matter of a day or two if SHTF (e.g. Georgia 2008).

    Belarus is the Foulda Gap reversed, but with nowhere near the capable/strong forces to defend it. Those S-300PS are good start but still there needs to be improvement in the air (fast jets) and ground (armor). The current order of battle and deployment on the ground is abysmally short-sighted and insufficient in quantity.

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    Re: Belarus Ground Forces

    Post  zg18 on Tue Aug 23, 2016 2:10 am

    MLRS "Polonez"




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