Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues


    Rafale wins India's MMRCA

    Share
    Pinto
    Pinto

    Posts : 911
    Points : 966
    Join date : 2015-05-16
    Location : India

    Special team for Rafale readies ground work, to visit France

    Post  Pinto on Wed Oct 05, 2016 10:01 am

    Indian Air Force’s (IAF) elite test pilots are preparing the groundwork for constituting a project management team that will soon travel to France and work with Dassault in customising the aircraft for India’s operational needs. India signed a Rs 60,000 crore deal with Dassault to procure 36 fighters under the medium multi-role combat aircraft (MMRCA) programme recently.

    The team will be constituted at the Aircraft & Systems Testing Establishment (ASTE) headquartered in Bengaluru, its commandant Air Vice Marshal Sandeep Singh confirmed to TOI.

    It was ASTE which did the field trials for all six contenders—Lockheed Martin’s F-16; Boeing’s F/A-18 E/F; European Eurofighter Typhoon; the Swedish Gripen; the French Dassault’s Rafale and the Russian Mig-35.

    Out of the six contenders only the Eurofighter Typhoon and Rafale met all the 750 quality requirements, including weapon systems. ASTE clarified that they do not compare aircraft and that only clear them based on requirement and that the decision of picking one is made at a higher level.

    Singh, explained that the team, once constituted will have pilots, engineers and air crew. “The size of the team will vary. For the Su-30MKI for example, we had a 10 member team,” he said.

    Given that the ASTE has already flown Rafale, a smaller team will be going to France. The advantage that this will give the IAF is that it will bring back a known platform, which its pilots understand.SU30-Brahmos integration soon

    Further, Singh said that the Su30-MKI and air-launched cruise missile Brahmos will happen soon with the firing of the actual missile. “Advanced trials are ongoing as we speak. We’ve already completed a dummy drop and the next drop will be the actual missile,” he said.The integration will enable IAF to strike targets 300km away and the aircraft had to be modified to accommodate this missile.

    The IAF’s initial requirement is for two Su-30 MKIs with BrahMos but it eventually wishes to integrate 216 missiles on 42 Sukhois. The project was conceived in July-August 2012 and as TOI had reported late in 2015, some quality certification issues has delayed the integration, which was to be complete by the end of 2015. Posted in India

    http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Special-team-for-Rafale-readies-ground-work-to-visit-France/articleshow/54681720.cms
    Pinto
    Pinto

    Posts : 911
    Points : 966
    Join date : 2015-05-16
    Location : India

    Rafale fighter jet deal to create thousands of jobs, India Inc to get 3 bn Euros worth biz

    Post  Pinto on Mon Oct 10, 2016 8:38 am



    This clause is expected to boost indigenous defence production with transfer of technology and joint ventures with local partner firms

    The 7.87 billion Euro agreement between India and France for the 36 Rafale fighter jets comes with a 50% offset clause which means that Indian companies will get business worth over 3 billion euros and generating thousands of jobs in India through offsets. (Reuters)


    A decade after then defence minister AK Antony approved the Request for Proposal to buy 126 Medium Multi-Role Combat Aircraft, the Indian Air Force will get its first Rafale fighter jets in the next 33 months from French company Dassault Aviation. The 36 aircraft that the IAF will get will replace the ailing MiGs. The first plane will be delivered within three and half years, and the entire lot in five years.

    The 7.87 billion Euro agreement between India and France for the 36 Rafale fighter jets comes with a 50% offset clause which means that Indian companies will get business worth over 3 billion euros and generating thousands of jobs in India through offsets. This is reportedly the largest ever offset contract in India’s history. This clause is expected to boost indigenous defence production with transfer of technology, joint ventures with local partner firms, licensed production and even perhaps relocation of production lines in the long run.

    “The offset clause of 50% in the Rafale deal will provide a great opportunity for indigenous manufacturers such as us who have put in years of effort to develop world-class technology within the country,” says Puneet Kaura, MD and CEO, Samtel Avionics. “It further outlines the commitment made by the Indian government to promote the Indian manufacturing industry and support indigenisation of defence needs of the country. There is also a possibility for India to become a global manufacturing hub for these fighter planes in case there is successful transfer of technology.”
    Since Dassault Aviation Company was not keen on transfer of technology, under the 50% offset clause, it has agreed to help India with the Light Combat Aircraft MK 2 and AMCA.

    French company Snecma (Safran)( a Dassault partner along with Thales) has proposed to invest Euro one billion in the Kaveri Gas Turbine Engine to be fitted in the LCA MK1A. Safran has developed the M88 engine that powers the Rafale as well as the Shakti engine for Indian advanced light helicopters (ALH) ‘Dhruv’.

    MBDA will work with Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) to transfer Thrust Vectoring technologies that are expected to be used in Astra and other missiles putting them at the level of Meteor—making the missiles more lethal.
    Under the deal, the French company has agreed to transfer the special spray paint and coating technology which is of immense benefit to Indian programmes, including LCA, AMCA, SU-30 MKI and FGFA.

    Also, it is expected that 36 combat machines could get the final layer of the stealth paint here in India as part of Make in India initiative.

    The radar technology on Rafale can easily be adapted to other aircrafts in IAF. As part of the deal, the multimode AESA radar technology will be transferred to DRDO for application on UTTAM AESA radar.

    The high-end twin engine aircraft with a state-of-the-art electronic scanning radar will certainly add to the IAF’s capabilities. The MBDA’s new-age Meteor Beyond Visual Range missile, can hit targets over 150 km away, without entering the enemy airspace before launching an attack. The aircraft is also capable of firing nuclear missiles.

    http://www.financialexpress.com/india-news/rafael-fighter-jet-deal-to-create-thousands-of-jobs-india-inc-to-get-3-bn-euros-worth-biz/412366/
    George1
    George1

    Posts : 12846
    Points : 13333
    Join date : 2011-12-22
    Location : Greece

    Re: Rafale wins India's MMRCA

    Post  George1 on Wed Nov 23, 2016 2:27 pm

    The Indian Government on Tuesday disclosed some details of the $ 8.85 billion deal to purchase French combat aircraft.

    1. “The terms of the procurement include five years of performance based logistics (PBL) with options for additional seven year extension. The terms also provide for 50 years’ product support by the manufacturer,” informed Manohar Parrikar, India’s Minister of Defense to the Parliament.

    2. “The deliveries of the aircraft will commence in September 2019 and will be completed in April 2022,” Parrikar added.

    3. Under the contract, Dassault will make India-specific changes to the aircraft and mount different types of missiles: beyond visual range (BVR) air-to-air Meteor, short and medium range air-to-air MICA and precision guided air-to-ground SCALP missiles.

    4. The procurement includes a provision for offsets of 50 percent of the value of the Aircraft and Weapons Package.



    Read more: https://sputniknews.com/military/201611231047742056-india-rafale-jets/
    George1
    George1

    Posts : 12846
    Points : 13333
    Join date : 2011-12-22
    Location : Greece

    Re: Rafale wins India's MMRCA

    Post  George1 on Wed Jan 11, 2017 11:51 pm

    Rafale fighter jet for India Modifications were named the Rafale-EH and Rafale-DH.

    The first deliveries to India are scheduled for 2019.

    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2369504.html
    George1
    George1

    Posts : 12846
    Points : 13333
    Join date : 2011-12-22
    Location : Greece

    Re: Rafale wins India's MMRCA

    Post  George1 on Wed Nov 14, 2018 8:43 am

    First Indian Rafale in the air

    As the Indian resources were reported, on October 30, 2018, in France, without much publicity, the first Dassault Rafale fighter aircraft built for the Indian Air Force, a two-seat Rafale DH aircraft with the Indian number RB008, made its first flight. In the first flight, the fighter flew from the airfield of the head office of Dassault Aviation in Merignac, near Bordeaux, to the French Air Force flight test center at the Istres airbase, where it will undergo a further test program. The aircraft does not yet bear the identification marks of the Indian Air Force.

    This double-seat aircraft Rafale DH with the Indian military number RB008, although it made the first flight, however, will be used in Istra for testing and training of Indian instructors, and as a result, it is expected that the last of the ordered 36 aircraft will actually arrive in India - in 2022 year

    Recall that the intergovernmental Indian-French agreement on the acquisition by India of 36 Dassault Rafale fighter jets was concluded on September 23, 2016, its cost is estimated at $ 8.2 billion. According to the agreement, 28 single-seater Rafale EH fighters should be supplied to India (Indian military numbers with BS001 BS028) and eight double Rafale DH planes (Indian military numbers from RB001 to RB008). It is interesting to note that the letters of the Indian military numbers Rafale were formed by the initials of two commanders of the Indian Air Force - the current Chief of Staff of the Indian Air Force, Air Marshal B.S. Dhanoa, and Marshal of Aviation R. B. Bhadauri, who led the Indian Procurement Negotiating Committee, Rafale. Now the beginning of the actual deliveries of the Rafale Indian Air Force is expected in September 2019, the transfer of aircraft will continue until April 2022.

    As part of the Indian Air Force, Rafale fighters must be equipped with two fighter squadrons at Ambala and Hashimar air bases.

    Video of one of the subsequent test flights of the first Rafale Rafale DH fighter (Indian military number RB008) built for the Indian Air Force from Istra airbase (s) Indian Aerospace Defense News - IADN



    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3412583.html
    Tsavo Lion
    Tsavo Lion

    Posts : 1959
    Points : 1959
    Join date : 2016-08-15
    Location : AZ, USA

    Re: Rafale wins India's MMRCA

    Post  Tsavo Lion on Mon Jan 21, 2019 10:47 pm

    The RoCAF's Mirages have suffered from low operational readiness and high maintenance costs; the harsh environment and high operational tempo had caused higher-than-expected wear and tear
    [possibly due to the island’s subtropical climate)
    ]. After the presence of cracks in the blades of the aircraft's engines were detected in 2009, Dassault worked with Taiwanese authorities to successfully rectify the issue and provided compensation for the engine damage. By the following year, normal training hours of 15 per month had resumed and the fleet's operational readiness had been restored, after having reportedly dropped to 6 hours per month because of the engine troubles. In addition to this issue, there were considerations of mothballing the entire Mirage fleet because of its high maintenance costs.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dassault_Mirage_2000#Taiwan

    Vietnam & Indonesia also have Su-27/-30s, but I never heard them suffering from hot & humid conditions.
    OTH, Mirages were used mostly in temperate/desert climates, & AFAIK, they weren't deployed to tropical French Guiana/Polynesia to give the designers in their air conditioned offices a valuable feedback:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dassault_Mirage_III#Exports_and_license_production
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dassault_Mirage_5#Operators
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dassault_Mirage_2000#Operational_history

    I doubt that the Rafale won't be a deja vu!


    Last edited by Tsavo Lion on Tue Jan 22, 2019 12:06 am; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : add link)
    LMFS
    LMFS

    Posts : 1234
    Points : 1228
    Join date : 2018-03-03

    Re: Rafale wins India's MMRCA

    Post  LMFS on Sat Mar 16, 2019 6:05 pm

    If this report is true, the level of corruption in Indian MoD is just phenomenal Shocked

    https://www.stratpost.com/rafalescam-the-cags-history/
    https://www.stratpost.com/how-the-mmrca-was-killed-rafalescam/
    https://www.stratpost.com/rafalescam-the-crucial-date/
    medo
    medo

    Posts : 3463
    Points : 3547
    Join date : 2010-10-24
    Location : Slovenia

    Re: Rafale wins India's MMRCA

    Post  medo on Sat Mar 16, 2019 11:54 pm

    I'm very disappointed with India. After all those lies, fairy tales and incompetence in last days of February, nothing could surprize me.



    We all remember all those BS and bad PR thrown against MiG and Sukhoi, how bad their planes are and how Sukhoi have to repair their planes for free after Indian incompetence. Dassault well followed this story and doesn't want to repeat the mistake from Sukhoi and was not ready to give any ToT or guaranty for Rafales to India. It was a big releaf for Sukhoi, when India cancelled FGFA project and could now Sukhoi concentrate all energy and money into Su-57 development instead of dealing with idiots.

    I wonder who will India blame for epic fail in Balakot, where the best elite Indian pilots fail to hit the whole hill with precision guided bombs, Strike was done by Mirage-2000 jets, so they could not blame Sukhoi. Will they blame Dassault and say Mirage-2000 is bad plane, when even Arabs made precise hits with them. I sometimes realy wonder, who is more incompetent, India or Saudi Arabia. India is supapawa only in Bollywood.
    medo
    medo

    Posts : 3463
    Points : 3547
    Join date : 2010-10-24
    Location : Slovenia

    Re: Rafale wins India's MMRCA

    Post  medo on Sat Mar 16, 2019 11:58 pm

    Tsavo Lion wrote:The RoCAF's Mirages have suffered from low operational readiness and high maintenance costs; the harsh environment and high operational tempo had caused higher-than-expected wear and tear
    [possibly due to the island’s subtropical climate)
    ]. After the presence of cracks in the blades of the aircraft's engines were detected in 2009, Dassault worked with Taiwanese authorities to successfully rectify the issue and provided compensation for the engine damage. By the following year, normal training hours of 15 per month had resumed and the fleet's operational readiness had been restored, after having reportedly dropped to 6 hours per month because of the engine troubles. In addition to this issue, there were considerations of mothballing the entire Mirage fleet because of its high maintenance costs.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dassault_Mirage_2000#Taiwan

    Vietnam & Indonesia also have Su-27/-30s, but I never heard them suffering from hot & humid conditions.
    OTH, Mirages were used mostly in temperate/desert climates, & AFAIK, they weren't deployed to tropical French Guiana/Polynesia to give the designers in their air conditioned offices a valuable feedback:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dassault_Mirage_III#Exports_and_license_production
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dassault_Mirage_5#Operators
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dassault_Mirage_2000#Operational_history

    I doubt that the Rafale won't be a deja vu!

    Not only Vietnam and Indonesia, but also Malaysia and Venezuela use Su-30 in hot and humid tropical conditions and non have problems with them. It is also true, that Vietnam, Venezuela and Indonesia use 100% Russian Su-30 without foreign components inside.
    magnumcromagnon
    magnumcromagnon

    Posts : 4796
    Points : 4955
    Join date : 2013-12-05
    Location : Pindos ave., Pindosville, Pindosylvania, Pindostan

    Re: Rafale wins India's MMRCA

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Sun Mar 17, 2019 12:02 am

    medo wrote:I'm very disappointed with India. After all those lies, fairy tales and incompetence in last days of February, nothing could surprize me.



    We all remember all those BS and bad PR thrown against MiG and Sukhoi, how bad their planes are and how Sukhoi have to repair their planes for free after Indian incompetence. Dassault well followed this story and doesn't want to repeat the mistake from Sukhoi and was not ready to give any ToT or guaranty for Rafales to India. It was a big releaf for Sukhoi, when India cancelled FGFA project and could now Sukhoi concentrate all energy and money into Su-57 development instead of dealing with idiots.

    I wonder who will India blame for epic fail in Balakot, where the best elite Indian pilots fail to hit the whole hill with precision guided bombs, Strike was done by Mirage-2000 jets, so they could not blame Sukhoi. Will they blame Dassault and say Mirage-2000 is bad plane, when even Arabs made precise hits with them. I sometimes realy wonder, who is more incompetent, India or Saudi Arabia. India is supapawa only in Bollywood.

    Don't blame all of it on India, the Spice-2000 kit is of Israeli design. Remember pro-Israeli/Neo-Con media talks about how Israeli drones killed the Pantsir, but they'll never talk about how widely inaccurate Spice-2000 kit was, or how Iron dome missiles cost $100k a peace to destroy $200 rockets, or how a whole division of UberWunderWaffle Merkeva 3/4 were obliterated by Metis and Kornet...

    medo
    medo

    Posts : 3463
    Points : 3547
    Join date : 2010-10-24
    Location : Slovenia

    Re: Rafale wins India's MMRCA

    Post  medo on Sun Mar 17, 2019 12:08 am

    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    medo wrote:I'm very disappointed with India. After all those lies, fairy tales and incompetence in last days of February, nothing could surprize me.



    We all remember all those BS and bad PR thrown against MiG and Sukhoi, how bad their planes are and how Sukhoi have to repair their planes for free after Indian incompetence. Dassault well followed this story and doesn't want to repeat the mistake from Sukhoi and was not ready to give any ToT or guaranty for Rafales to India. It was a big releaf for Sukhoi, when India cancelled FGFA project and could now Sukhoi concentrate all energy and money into Su-57 development instead of dealing with idiots.

    I wonder who will India blame for epic fail in Balakot, where the best elite Indian pilots fail to hit the whole hill with precision guided bombs, Strike was done by Mirage-2000 jets, so they could not blame Sukhoi. Will they blame Dassault and say Mirage-2000 is bad plane, when even Arabs made precise hits with them. I sometimes realy wonder, who is more incompetent, India or Saudi Arabia. India is supapawa only in Bollywood.

    Don't blame all of it on India, the Spice-2000 kit is of Israeli design. Remember pro-Israeli/Neo-Con media talks about how Israeli drones killed the Pantsir, but they'll never talk about how widely inaccurate Spice-2000 kit was, or how Iron dome missiles cost $100k a peace to destroy $200 rockets, or how a whole division of UberWunderWaffle Merkeva 3/4 were obliterated by Metis and Kornet...


    True, but Israel is holly cow in India and they install Israeli components everywhere. They want them even in Rafales. But it was still Indian decision to install a mix of foreign components in their planes. Nobody force them to do that. So it is still their responsibility.
    avatar
    Austin

    Posts : 7213
    Points : 7610
    Join date : 2010-05-08
    Location : India

    #RafaleScam: The CAG’s History

    Post  Austin on Wed Mar 20, 2019 5:31 am

    What follows in this three-part analysis is a contextualized and accessible retelling of the report on the Rafale order, explaining how an acquisition process was manipulated at every stage and the system played to the advantage of a single company from the year 2000.

    Anything, as long as it’s French
    Very briefly, the IAF first tried to get a French fighter — the Mirage 2000, without a contest. Three times.

    But they were forced to hold a contest according to the rules. This time, there was a new French fighter in the contest, the Rafale, the successor to the Mirage 2000.

    The new French fighter was kicked out three times, according to the rules. Each time, the French fighter was brought back into the contest.

    Four of the six competing aircraft could have easily beaten the Rafale on price. These four aircraft were thrown out of the contest for nebulous and unconvincing technical reasons.

    Only two aircraft now remained in the contest. The Rafale and the Eurofighter. The only way the Rafale could win would be to beat the Eurofighter bid on cost comparison.

    The interpretation of the cost was fixed to make the Eurofighter, appear more expensive and the French fighter was announced the cheaper ‘L1’ bid.

    But it didn’t end there.

    A deal was simply impossible because it became clear that the French fighter was simply not L1, or the cheaper aircraft. Nor did the French have any intention of allowing the aircraft to be built in India.

    The defence ministry finally, officially admitted this conclusion. But only two weeks after this, a request was announced for 36 Rafale fighters. Two months later, the MMRCA tender was cancelled.

    Why Rafale, again? Because Rafale was ‘L1’ said the government. Even though it actually, really wasn’t.


    Please read the full report here by Saurabh Joshi

    Part-1 #RafaleScam: The CAG’s History How the game was fixed for the French fighter

    Part-2 How the MMRCA was killed #RafaleScam And the Eurofighter was shafted by interpretation of costs

    Part 3 #RafaleScam: The Crucial Date The date reveals what was known, to whom, and when

    Sponsored content

    Re: Rafale wins India's MMRCA

    Post  Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Sat Mar 23, 2019 10:59 am