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    Rafale wins India's MMRCA

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    Sujoy
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    Re: Rafale wins India's MMRCA

    Post  Sujoy on Tue Aug 28, 2012 10:46 am

    ricky123 wrote:
    can any1 tell me the update on it ..i mean has the aircraft carrier fully operational and handed over to india yet or not ?

    The Admiral Groshkov is still undergoing sea trials in the White Sea. From the 28th of July the aviation trials involving the operations of the Mig 29 K from the deck of that ship commenced. Machinery trials are also well underway.In the interim Indian Navy pilots are being trained with their Mig 29K on the Admiral Kuznetsov. If the trials are all successful , then , according to Victor Chirkov, the newly appointed Commander-in-Chief of the Russian Navy the Admiral Groshkov / Vikramaditya will be commissioned by the end of this year.

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    Re: Rafale wins India's MMRCA

    Post  ricky123 on Tue Aug 28, 2012 11:47 am

    thanks Sujoy can u tell me the life this aircraft carrier will have and INS Virat as well and what happened to the one india was making of its own

    Sujoy
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    Re: Rafale wins India's MMRCA

    Post  Sujoy on Tue Aug 28, 2012 1:11 pm

    ricky123 wrote:thanks Sujoy can u tell me the life this aircraft carrier will have and INS Virat as well and what happened to the one india was making of its own

    Difficult to give an exact life span for the Groshkov . Conventional wisdom based on precedents suggests around 30 years , however that depends on a whole lot of factors. The carrier will feature STOBAR , CATOBAR and STOVL systems . So obviously a wide array of aircrafts will use this carrier . The more the usage the more the depreciation of the asset.

    INS Vikrant, won't be commissioned before 2017.There had been serious problems in the installation of gearboxes, coupled with a road accident where a truck transporting generators for the ship turned turtle, forcing the shipbuilders to send the equipment back to the OEM for inspection and repair. Very Happy

    The third carrier being designed , which will probably be called Vishal is likely to be a carrier larger than the Vikrant. As on this date no one knows about it's specifications and configuration, though it is believed that it will be a CATOBAR flat-top. So we can rest assured regardless of how many more trucks turn turtle we don't have much to worry about.



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    Re: Rafale wins India's MMRCA

    Post  ricky123 on Mon Oct 22, 2012 6:29 pm

    The Master Move


    India has first begun buying off-the-shelf Su-30s from Russia in 1997. But, in 2000, began developing Sukhoi Su-30MKIs at home after Hindustan Aeronautics Limited began production under license from Sukhoi Design Bureau. The Su-30MKI has considerable Indian components in it.



    The urgency for signing a new deal for 40 Super Sukois emanates from the fact that the proposed deal for 126 MMRCA aircraft is getting delayed to an unnerving extent by the Indian parameters and the Indians are still far from a stage where they sign the contract with France's Dassault. The Russian Super Sukhois, therefore, is an immediately doable thing which would also send a signal to the international community. In fact, major global arms manufacturers companies like Dassault would be handed out a stern message if India were to sign the new deal for the Super Sukhois with the Russians, as per the Indian strategic thinking.
    Code:
    http://indrus.in/articles/2012/10/09/377_bn_super_sukhois_deal_to_be_signed_during_putins_visit_18229.html

    wtf is wrong with the indian gov .cant close one deal properly.
    i hope the greed doesnt kill them censored
    they still negotiating the mmrca is just pathetic

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    India mulls huge increase in Rafale order, may buy up to 189 fighter jets

    Post  ricky123 on Thu Jan 17, 2013 7:18 pm

    PARIS: India could buy up to 189 of the Rafale fighter jets currently being used by France to bomb Islamist militants in Mali, sources close to negotiations on the multi-billion dollar deal have told AFP.

    The possibility of an additional 63 jets being added to an expected order for 126 was raised during a visit by India's foreign minister Salman Khurshid to Paris last week, they said.

    "There is an option for procurement of an additional 63 aircrafts subsequently for which a separate contract would need to be signed," a source said.

    "Presently the contract under negotiation is for 126 aircraft but we are talking about the follow-up."

    India's contemplation of a much bigger than anticipated extension of its airpower will inevitably cause concern in neighbouring Pakistan given the permanently simmering tensions between the two countries.

    The Indian press has estimated the value of the deal for 126 Rafales at $12 billion (nine billion euros).

    A 50 per cent increase in the number of planes ordered would take it to around $18 billion, in a huge boost for the struggling French defence industry, although much of the economic benefit will be shared with India.

    New Delhi selected France's Dassault Aviation as its preferred candidate to equip the Indian Air Force with new fighter jets in January 2012.

    Under the deal on the table, the first 18 Rafales will be built in France but the next 108 will be assembled in India by Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd in Bangalore.

    "The first aircraft will be delivered three years after signature of the contract," the source added.

    An industry expert said the time lag reflected India's request for two-seater jets rather than the one-seater model that Dassault currently produces.

    India has insisted that the deal involves significant technology transfer and that Indian suppliers secure work equivalent to around half of the value of the contract.

    "The negociations for off-sets are progressing well," the source added.

    The conclusion of the deal has been repeatedly delayed, with India having initially set a target of the end of last year, which slipped to March 31, 2013, the end of the current fiscal year.

    French defence sources said last week that was unlikely to be met but voiced confidence it would finally be done, a stance echoed by Khurshid on his visit to Paris.

    "We know good French wine takes time to mature and so do good contracts," Khurshid said after a meeting with French foreign minister Laurent Fabius.

    "The contract details are being worked out. A decision has already been taken, just wait a little for the cork to pop and you'll have some good wine to taste."

    Dassault and the French government are hoping that India's decision will have a positive influence on other potential buyers of the Rafale, who include Brazil, which is in the market for 36 planes, Canada, Malaysia and the United Arab Emirates.

    The Rafale was used in a combat situation for the first time during the French-led Nato campaign which deposed Libyan dictator Moamer Kadhafi in 2011 and they have been active in Mali since the weekend.


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    Re: Rafale wins India's MMRCA

    Post  TR1 on Thu Jan 17, 2013 7:20 pm

    This does not bode well for indigenous programs IMO.

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    Re: Rafale wins India's MMRCA

    Post  ricky123 on Thu Jan 17, 2013 7:29 pm

    TR1 wrote:This does not bode well for indigenous programs IMO.
    dint understand what u meant .... most of these fighters will be made in india

    the follow up order will allow to negotiate a better tot and price for the fighter ..how is this not helping censored
    to be honest india has a long way to go to build a fighter indigenously such as rafale..... let india first fix the problems with lca ....

    i see india still importing arms for another 30-50 years ...

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    Re: Rafale wins India's MMRCA

    Post  Corrosion on Fri Jan 18, 2013 6:01 am

    Too early to say that additional order will be placed. They haven't even signed the contract yet. First they will sign the contract then France will take atleast 2 years to deliver first one. Then HAL will start building them at maybe 10 per year. We can expect Rafale production to go up till 2022-24 for the first 126. How can you expect them to make a decision about the 63 option. Its all sensationalist media non sense, nothing more. Look at MKI production, they have been talking about 270 MKIs from ages and the last contract for 42 aircraft have only been signed few months ago or is it signed yet? That too because there is no other Fighter currently available for IAF now. In 2022 when they will make the decision about 63 option, they will have FGFA/PAKFA and hopefully a matured Tejas as well. It is very difficult to make a prediction about that. I seriously doubt they will place an order of 189 straight away.

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    Re: Rafale wins India's MMRCA

    Post  GarryB on Fri Jan 18, 2013 10:30 am

    I can't see India getting 126 Rafales for 12 billion.

    I rather suspect that before the end the price will go up dramatically and the numbers made will likely reduce as well.


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    Sujoy
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    Re: Rafale wins India's MMRCA

    Post  Sujoy on Fri Jan 18, 2013 4:15 pm

    ricky123 wrote:dint understand what u meant .... most of these fighters will be made in india
    HAL doe NOT have that capacity . If HAL has to make Rafales in India it will take 15 - 18 years to complete all deliveries. The best option and probably the only option is to import Rafales in CKD condition & have them licence-assembled by HAL. Only then will the 126 Rafales be able to enter service by 2025 .

    More importantly , Dassault Aviation and the French government are looking to persuade the Indian government to immediately exercise options for 63 additional Rafale fighters . As on this date the Indian MoD has NOT taken any such decision. Hollande is coming to India next month so obviously they need something on the table.

    ricky123 wrote:the follow up order will allow to negotiate a better tot and price for the fighter ..how is this not helping censored
    to be honest india has a long way to go to build a fighter indigenously such as rafale..... let india first fix the problems with lca ....

    Actually you have answered your own question with your follow up observations Smile .

    TOT cannot be about HAL making every nut and bolt in India . It should be about acquiring all the capabilities required for assured through-life product support of the Rafale fleet. Infact this is exactly what the RFP for the MMRCA said as well .

    India has to create the industrial base to absorb the 30 % offset which is presently absent . Also FDI in Defense has to be increased to at least 49% for foreign players to make meaningful investment in India which will lead to ToT.

    Indian engineers are among the worst in the world . Most of the students enrolled into IITs etc come straight from the coaching-class markets from whom creativity is least expected.

    So be rest assured for the rest of our lifetime we will continue to import .

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    Re: Rafale wins India's MMRCA

    Post  Corrosion on Sat Jan 19, 2013 1:33 pm

    True "creativity" and "thinking out of box" and "questioning system" is strongly discouraged in Indian education system. I am Not complaining but I have rarely seen any body from North India working in HAL or DRDO or even ISRO. Wonder Why, Is it due to some quota system. I am Not implying that people from North are brilliant or some thing and deserve to be there. Just asking, does PSUs like HAL support quota systems.

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    Re: Rafale wins India's MMRCA

    Post  George1 on Mon Jan 12, 2015 3:16 pm

    Scrapping Rafale Deal in Favor of Su-30MKI Optimal for India: Think Tank

    The Russian Su-30MKI surpasses the French Rafaele fighter in both quality and cost and will therefore better suit the Indian Air Force. Another reason for possible cancelling the contract with Paris could be Paris' failure to complete its obligation in the Mistral deal, which undermines France's reliability.

    MOSCOW, January 12 (Sputnik) — Acquiring Russian-designed Sukhoi Su-30MKI instead of France's Rafale fighter aircraft would be the most beneficial option for India in terms of price and performance characteristics, a spokesman for the Center for Analysis of World Arms Trade (CAWAT) said Monday.

    “If India chooses not to buy French Rafale fighter aircraft in favor of Russian Su-30MKI, it would be beneficial for the Indian side in every aspect. The tactical and technical characteristics of the Russian plane are much better than those of the French fighter jet,” the spokesman said.

    According to CAWAT, the price of the fighter jets is an important factor for the Indian Air Force, and “France nearly doubling the original price outlined in the contract does not meet current economic realities.”

    The spokesman also noted that India already has all logistics in place for technical maintenance of the Su-30MKI.

    “India has established a logistics chain for servicing the Su-30MKI, which has been supplied by Russia earlier and manufactured in India under a [Russian] license," the spokesman said adding that the aircraft, which is a 4++ generation fighter, could be used to train Indian pilots for the use of the future fifth generation fighter aircraft.

    France’s suspension of the delivery of its Mistral-class helicopter carriers to Russia could also serve as a reason for India to doubt France's reliability in fulfilling obligations under arms contracts, including the Rafale deal, according to CAWAT.

    “France’s delay and a possible refusal to deliver the Mistrals to Russia will give a reason to doubt that this country is a reliable partner in the field of military-technical cooperation. It is possible that Paris, for whatever political reasons, may suspend the implementation of the Rafale delivery contract. Therefore, a decision by India to acquire Su-30MKI would be the best choice for the country,” the spokesman said.

    According to recent reports by local media, India could pull out of the $20 billion deal with France’s Dassault Aviation company on the acquisition of 126 Rafale multirole fighter aircraft.

    The Indian Defense Ministry is reportedly considering scrapping the deal over its high costs and Dassault’s refusal to guarantee the performance of Rafale aircraft produced in India under transfer of technology agreements, seeing the Russian-designed Su-30MKI as a more sensible alternative.

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    Re: Rafale wins India's MMRCA

    Post  flamming_python on Mon Jan 12, 2015 4:13 pm

    George1 wrote:Scrapping Rafale Deal in Favor of Su-30MKI Optimal for India: Think Tank

    The Russian Su-30MKI surpasses the French Rafaele fighter in both quality and cost and will therefore better suit the Indian Air Force. Another reason for possible cancelling the contract with Paris could be Paris' failure to complete its obligation in the Mistral deal, which undermines France's reliability.

    MOSCOW, January 12 (Sputnik) — Acquiring Russian-designed Sukhoi Su-30MKI instead of France's Rafale fighter aircraft would be the most beneficial option for India in terms of price and performance characteristics, a spokesman for the Center for Analysis of World Arms Trade (CAWAT) said Monday.

    “If India chooses not to buy French Rafale fighter aircraft in favor of Russian Su-30MKI, it would be beneficial for the Indian side in every aspect. The tactical and technical characteristics of the Russian plane are much better than those of the French fighter jet,” the spokesman said.

    According to CAWAT, the price of the fighter jets is an important factor for the Indian Air Force, and “France nearly doubling the original price outlined in the contract does not meet current economic realities.”

    The spokesman also noted that India already has all logistics in place for technical maintenance of the Su-30MKI.

    “India has established a logistics chain for servicing the Su-30MKI, which has been supplied by Russia earlier and manufactured in India under a [Russian] license," the spokesman said adding that the aircraft, which is a 4++ generation fighter, could be used to train Indian pilots for the use of the future fifth generation fighter aircraft.

    France’s suspension of the delivery of its Mistral-class helicopter carriers to Russia could also serve as a reason for India to doubt France's reliability in fulfilling obligations under arms contracts, including the Rafale deal, according to CAWAT.

    “France’s delay and a possible refusal to deliver the Mistrals to Russia will give a reason to doubt that this country is a reliable partner in the field of military-technical cooperation. It is possible that Paris, for whatever political reasons, may suspend the implementation of the Rafale delivery contract. Therefore, a decision by India to acquire Su-30MKI would be the best choice for the country,” the spokesman said.

    According to recent reports by local media, India could pull out of the $20 billion deal with France’s Dassault Aviation company on the acquisition of 126 Rafale multirole fighter aircraft.

    The Indian Defense Ministry is reportedly considering scrapping the deal over its high costs and Dassault’s refusal to guarantee the performance of Rafale aircraft produced in India under transfer of technology agreements, seeing the Russian-designed Su-30MKI as a more sensible alternative.

    And then just for the coup de grace, so to speak, Russia should bin the Mistral contracts and demand damages Twisted Evil

    How's that for economic warfare?

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    Re: Rafale wins India's MMRCA

    Post  George1 on Thu Mar 05, 2015 10:52 am

    India’s Defense Minister Says Unclear When Rafale Deal to Be Finalized

    Indian Defense Minister Manohar Parrikar said that it is yet unclear whether the deal on the deliveries of French Rafale fighter jets will be finalized before the April's visit of India's Prime Minister Narendra Modi to France.

    NEW DELHI (Sputnik) — It is yet unclear whether the deal on the deliveries of French Rafale fighter jets will be finalized before the April's visit of India's Prime Minister Narendra Modi to France, Indian Defense Minister Manohar Parrikar told Sputnik Wednesday.

    "It's not clear," Manohar Parrikar said.

    Last Tuesday, Parrikar discussed the multibillion-Dollar Rafale deal with his French counterpart Jean-Yves Le Drian who came to India on official visit.

    In 2012, French Dassault Aviation won a bid to supply 126 Rafale multirole combat aircraft to India.

    However, on February 16, 2015 Indian Defense Ministry said that the $10-billion deal with France on the acquisition of Rafales was too expensive.

    Local media outlets reported that India could pull out of a deal with France's Dassault and go for cheaper and more reliable Russian-designed Su-30s instead.

    Read more: http://sputniknews.com/military/20150304/1019068807.html#ixzz3TVGWFkB0

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    Re: Rafale wins India's MMRCA

    Post  George1 on Wed Mar 18, 2015 1:24 pm

    India Refuses to Negotiate With France on Rafale Jets Price

    Read more: http://sputniknews.com/business/20150318/1019661804.html#ixzz3UjtpHlZW

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    Re: Rafale wins India's MMRCA

    Post  Vladimir79 on Wed Mar 18, 2015 10:36 pm

    6yrs later... omg just end it.


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    Re: Rafale wins India's MMRCA

    Post  GarryB on Thu Mar 19, 2015 10:03 am

    It was all politics to get France to lower its price for Rafale and it has clearly failed... they need to let it go or get creative.

    It was a 10 billion dollar deal... if France demands 22 billion then India needs to either accept it is going to cost that much or it needs to change the deal... they should say they want 10 billion dollars worth of Rafales... which should be about 60-62 and perhaps look at some other aircraft like the MiG-29M, MiG-35, or more Su-30s or perhaps Su-35s... or put some more money into Tegas and boost numbers of that aircraft.


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    Re: Rafale wins India's MMRCA

    Post  George1 on Tue Apr 07, 2015 10:20 pm

    India Prime Minister to Discuss Rafale Fighter Jet Deal During France Visit

    France's Ambassador to India Francois Richier said that Indian Prime Minister is set to discuss a long-disputed deal to buy Rafale fighter jets during his visit to France scheduled for April 10-11.

    MOSCOW (Sputnik) – Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi is set to discuss a long-disputed deal to buy Rafale fighter jets during his visit to France scheduled for April 10-11, France's Ambassador to India Francois Richier told Sputnik Tuesday.

    "Only thing I can say on Rafale is that the deal is on. Rafale deal will be on the agenda of talks during Indian Prime Minister Modi's visit to France," Richier said.

    The diplomat declined to give any further details.

    Earlier, Indian media reported that New Delhi might pull out of the $20-billion deal with the French Dassault Aviation Company on an acquisition of 126 Rafale fighters.

    In 2012 the Dassault Aviation won a bid to supply 126 Rafale fighter jets to India but the purchase was delayed over high costs and the company's refusal to guarantee the performance of Rafales produced in India.

    Russian and British fighter jets have been tipped as a possible replacement for the Rafale jets if the deal should be scrapped.

    Read more: http://sputniknews.com/asia/20150407/1020556491.html#ixzz3WelnIMtj

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    Re: Rafale wins India's MMRCA

    Post  George1 on Fri Apr 10, 2015 3:07 pm

    India Confirms Purchasing Half of Original Number of Rafale Fighter Jets

    India will purchase half of the initially planned number of French Rafale fighter jets, a source in the Indian Ministry of External Affairs told Sputnik on Friday.

    NEW DELHI (Sputnik) – In 2012, India announced plans to buy 126 Rafale jets from French company Dassault Aviation. According to the source at the ministry, Indian authorities have altered that original announcement, stating now they will purchase around 60.

    Earlier in the day, France's Le Monde newspaper reported that India was aiming to buy 63 Rafale jets for $7.7 billion.

    Earlier on Friday, the source told Sputnik that India and France were likely to sign a deal on the Rafale jets on April 10.

    The Rafale deal is expected to be discussed by Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi and French President Francois Hollande during Modi's three-day visit to France that started on Thursday.

    Previously, media reports suggested that India might cancel the deal with France altogether and consider Russian or British fighter jets instead.

    Read more: http://sputniknews.com/military/20150410/1020709599.html#ixzz3WuYQ1nyN

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    Re: Rafale wins India's MMRCA

    Post  George1 on Sat Apr 11, 2015 9:00 am

    Indian PM Modi Requests Urgent Delivery of 36 Rafale Jets From France

    Read more: http://sputniknews.com/military/20150410/1020731830.html#ixzz3Wyubzaqx

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    Re: Rafale wins India's MMRCA

    Post  type055 on Sat Apr 11, 2015 10:27 am

    George1 wrote:Indian PM Modi Requests Urgent Delivery of 36 Rafale Jets From France

    Read more: http://sputniknews.com/military/20150410/1020731830.html#ixzz3Wyubzaqx


    4.68 billion USD for 36 Rafale Jets, too expensive

    this price can buy F35


    why does india want  Rafale in a hurry ?

    I think this deal will have effect on SU35s export

    good news for french , finally they can export their Rafale, get someone share R&D cost.

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    Re: Rafale wins India's MMRCA

    Post  GarryB on Sat Apr 11, 2015 1:15 pm

    Already signed a deal with Egypt, so that counts as first export of Rafale AFAIK.

    Equally I don't understand this purchase... a 10 billion contract... half the number of aircraft should cost 5 billion in total... India is letting itself get screwed.

    Personally I think they should cancel the deal and spend 10 billion dollars on upgrading the Tegas and increasing production... new weapons, new AESA radar, lots of other new bits and pieces... you can buy a lot for 10 billion... that could be four new aircraft carriers with air wings.


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    Re: Rafale wins India's MMRCA

    Post  max steel on Sun Apr 12, 2015 9:48 pm



    Calculated political push, not regular process led to Rafale deal; all you need to know

    After a series of twists and turns, a multi-billion dollar deal for new fighter jets for the Air Force has hit the last mile with the NDA government determined to iron out differences and wrap up negotiations with an out-of-the-box solution to end a two-year deadlock.

    A test of political will to find an innovative approach to ink a contract that was threatening to get out of hand, but one that had significant strategic and geopolitical implications, has been on display in the lead up to Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s visit to Paris, where the Rafale deal has been firmed up along with a memorandum of understanding on joint defence production in India.

    The reworked deal—buying 36 fighters outright with the option for more could work out to up to $7.5 billion and scrapping an earlier requirement to manufacture 108 jets in India—has the potential to pump in at least $2.3 billion into the Indian defence manufacturing sector, a major chunk of which will go to the private industry.

    While the mega deal—initiated in 2007 with six competitors—had been chugging along since 2012 when Dassault’s Rafale was declared the winner, signs had appeared in the past few weeks that for the first time since coming to power, the NDA government was looking at walking the distance, provided New Delhi did not have to make significant concessions.

    Dassault had been struggling to get the contract through in the last year of the UPA, which had gone slow on all defence procurements. The newfound political will in New Delhi, as well as a strong diplomatic push from Paris, offered the final chance to bag an order that was widely classified as the world’s biggest open tender for fighter aircraft.

    While many differences had been sorted out, a deadlock persisted for almost two years on two major sticking points. Innovative solutions were needed for both, something that the NDA government is not known to shy away from.

    The easier one to sort out was liability for quality and delays in production. As per the original terms, French manufacturer Dassault had responsibility for timely delivery of the fighters as well as technical defects. But as the final negotiations started, the French firm raised the point that in case of delays by Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd—nominated to produce the fighter in India—penalties would be unfair.

    The other sticking point was pricing. The deal is complex—it involves the calculation of life cycle costs, carries a major technology transfer component to HAL and has a clause that requires Dassault to invest half the value of the contract in India. After negotiations on the transfer of technology and the setting up of a production line in India with HAL, it emerged that the cost that Dassault had projected for the India-made Rafale would be surpassed. The Indian PSU would be required to purchase more equipment, facilities and technology than anticipated to deliver the fighter on time, escalating the costs. Again, a novel solution was needed. One proposal was to divide the cost of the production line as Dassault had offered to use it to make different platforms such as its Falcon executive jets and unmanned aerial vehicles, which are churned out of the same line in France. This would potentially lower the per-unit cost of the Rafale fighter.
    While in 2007, the government had assessed the deal at $10 billion, the cost of 126 Rafale fighters had swelled to an estimated $22 billion by 2014.

    What worked was a commitment by the government for the outright purchase of 36 jets. This would keep the French company in profit, do away with HAL’s liability issues and meet the operational requirements of the Indian Air Force, which is battling a crisis with obsolete fighter aircraft.

    Going the final mile on the deal meant that some concessions have to be granted by both India and France. Dassault is likely to bend within reason, adhering to the commitments required by India on a fair price for the fighters, even at the cost of a dip in profit. For India, the outright purchase comes at the cost of the Make in India concept.

    When it started in 2007, the fighter deal was touted as pivotal to moving modern aerospace and military technology to India. As per the original contract, the winner would have to set up a production line here. The outright purchase of 36 jets with the option for more means that will not happen immediately, although the option remains to manufacture subsequent orders in India.

    However, caught between a rock and a hard place—the urgent need for new fighters and the inability to write off exceptions and concessions for the French firm, many of them made by the UPA—the Modi government has gone for the out-ofthe-box solution.

    The scrapping of the original contract for 126 fighters is also a subtle message by the government about the UPA’s inability and bungling in dealing with a complex matter. An argument being made is that it would have been impossible to sign the deal in the form that was presented to the NDA government.

    There were too many concessions and deviations from the original terms and conditions, which the bureaucracy would have been reluctant to sign off on. This would have forced a political directive or the scrapping of the deal. To offset criticism that the deal does not bring manufacturing and jobs to India, the government is likely to insist that the French company invest 30-50% of the contract value in India and rope in the Indian private sector as a major, global chain supplier to Dassault and its associates. The government also says that manufacturing of greater number of these jets in India is still not ruled out and talks on that could continue over the next few months.

    Most of the investments that Dassault will need to make are likely to go to the Indian private sector— from the supply of sub-systems for the Rafale to linking into the global supply chain of Dassault for other products such as commercial jets and combat unmanned aerial vehicles. By conservative estimates, the amount that Dassault is likely to invest to meet offset obligations over the next 5-6 years would be over $2.5 billion.

    Other lucrative contracts for maintenance and overhaul of the fighters in India would also be up for grabs—something that HAL and the private sector will need to fight for. Beyond the strategic need for new fighters that will enable the Air Force to maintain a combative edge in the region, the Rafale deal had implications for bilateral relations with France, which has been a reliable partner for India.

    The partnership goes beyond defence and extends to civil nuclear cooperation and space. All these aspects were kept in mind while seeking a middle path on the deal—buying the fighters and scrapping the complex process initiated by the previous government.

    One thing is clear: The deal has been decided by a carefully calculated political push, not by the regular process or bureaucratic approval.

    ricky123
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    Re: Rafale wins India's MMRCA

    Post  ricky123 on Mon Apr 13, 2015 8:30 pm

    the MMRCA deal looks like cancelled . according to the Defense minister . and the price is not negotiated yet for the 36 fighter which france promised to deliver within 2 years . i mean the first fighter will be delivered after 2 years . however some sources say the deal for 36 fighters is around $2.4 bil

    cuz the price had to be better then the terms agreed upon in the MMRCA deal . this is what they said in the joint statement .
    so $2.5 bill for 36 fighters i dont think it is bad deal . plus now india can concentrate on other fighter programs like FGFA ,AMCA and tejas .

    max steel
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    Re: Rafale wins India's MMRCA

    Post  max steel on Tue Apr 14, 2015 12:45 am

    INDIA HAS MADE IT OFFICIAL . THE MOTHER OF ALL DEFENSE DEALS IS OVER . Mega M-MRCA project for 126 jets has been scrapped . lol!

    Frenchies are loosing their military sheen . pwnd pwnd scratch geek


    All future Rafale jet purchases will be government-to-government: Parrikar
    The Modi government has sounded the death knell for the deadlocked $20 billion MMRCA (medium multi-role combat aircraft) project to acquire 126 fighters, which was dubbed the "mother of all defence deals" around the globe after competition for it was launched by the previous UPA regime in 2007.
    Defence minister Manohar Parrikar on Monday also made it clear that if India goes in for additional French Rafale fighters, after the outright purchase of 36 jets decided during the Modi-Hollande summit in Paris last Friday, it will also be through government-to-government deals.
    The stalled final negotiations for the MMRCA project, in which Rafale emerged the winner in January 2012 after a hotly-contested open global competition, had envisaged the induction of 126 fighters - the first 18 through direct acquisition from France, with the rest to be made by Hindustan Aeronautics in India after transfer of technology.
    Even though Parrikar did not utter the words "scrap" or "cancel" in connection with the MMRCA project, he used enough analogies to stress exactly that. "A car cannot travel on two roads at the same time. The other road (MMRCA) had a lot of problems," Parrikar said.
    But the minister did not specify how many additional Rafales would be acquired after the first 36 Rafales are inducted directly from France, which itself is likely to take well over two years. But the number now will certainly not be as much as 126 fighters, with Parrikar holding it would "financially be a very steep slope to climb".
    But he added that "all options are being kept open", including the 'Make in India' component for additional Rafales if required. Holding that "nitty-gritties" are not worked out at the PM-level, he said India and France would now hold discussions on the future course of action. "The fine print of what has been agreed (in the Modi-Hollande summit) is not with me yet," he said.
    Concurrently, the Modi government is also trying to improve the serviceability of the 272 Sukhoi-30MKIs contracted from Russia for over $12 billion. It is just 55% for the 200 Sukhois inducted till now. The DRDO-HAL combine is also being pushed for faster induction of 120 indigenous Tejas light combat aircraft. "The gap can be filled," said Parrikar.
    "PM Modi has taken a bold decision (to bypass the stalled MMRCA project). Instead of going through the RFP (request for proposal or global tender) route, where there was lot of confusion and chaos, it has been decided to go for the G2G route. My personal opinion is that in certain areas of defence, especially of strategic (non-nuclear) equipment, the G2G route is much better," he added.
    The final negotiations for the MMRCA project with French aviation major Dassault had stalled for over an year now due to the company's continuing refusal to take "full responsibility" for the 108 jets to be made by HAL as well as a stiff hike in their production costs here, as reported earlier by TOI.
    "It had gone into a loop or a vortex. A decision had to be taken to break the vortex since IAF's operational requirement (the force is down to just 34 fighter squadrons) was becoming steeper day-by day. The qualitative selection (of Rafale in the MMRCA contest) was already done," said Parrikar.
    The minister, in fact, pointed to the Defence Trade and Technology Initiative between India and the US to stress that the G2G route was much better in acquiring high-end military hardware. India, incidentally, has inked deals worth over $6 billion with the US for 12 C-130J Super Hercules and 10 C-17 Globemaster-III aircraft without any open tender or competition.

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