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    Rafale wins India's MMRCA

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    Vladimir79
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    Re: Rafale wins India's MMRCA

    Post  Vladimir79 on Thu Sep 15, 2016 2:21 am

    France agreed to 50% offsets but India is giving them a 25% credit for Kaveri ToT, someone wants to make engines really bad if they give up that much business.


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    Re: Rafale wins India's MMRCA

    Post  Pinto on Thu Sep 15, 2016 7:47 am

    Vladimir79 wrote:France agreed to 50% offsets but India is giving them a 25% credit for Kaveri ToT, someone wants to make engines really bad if they give up that much business.

    Lol yeah India no doubt is desperate to get Kaveri engine going i guess Smile

    Any idea bro which Beyond visual range will be part of the Super sukhoi upgrade ? METEOR or DERBY-ER?


    Last edited by Pinto on Thu Sep 15, 2016 7:59 am; edited 1 time in total

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    With Rafale, A Game-Changer Missile That Puts India Ahead Of China: Exclusive

    Post  Pinto on Thu Sep 15, 2016 7:52 am

    HIGHLIGHTS

    * India is acquiring Meteor, world's most advanced air-to-air missile

    * IAF's Rafales will come equipped with the Meteor

    * Neither Pakistan nor China possess a weapon of the same class

    As India and France get set to sign a Euro 7.87 billion contract for 36 French Rafale fighters, details are emerging on a previously undisclosed part of the deal, which will see India acquiring the Meteor, arguably the world's most advanced air-to-air missile.

    Sources tracking the final negotiations have confirmed to NDTV that the IAF's Rafales will come equipped with the Meteor designed to knock out enemy aircraft and cruise missiles significantly more than 100 km away.

    The acquisition of this weapon is likely to be game changer in South Asia. Neither Pakistan nor China, India's traditional military adversaries, possess a weapon of the same class.

    The only other air-to-air missile as capable as the Meteor is the AIM-120D, the latest variant of the US Advanced Medium Range Air-to-Air Missile which is also designed to hit targets more than 100 km away.

    Analysts, however, point out that the Meteor is likely to be significantly more capable because of its ramjet engine.

    According to War is Boring, a leading international website that explores high technology weapons systems, "A conventional solid-fuel booster accelerates the Meteor after launch, like most air-to-air missiles. But while roaring through the air, the missile opens up a chute, allowing air to rush into the engine, which heats up the oxygen and propels the supersonic missile to Mach 4 (four times the speed of sound)."

    Engineers from the European firm MBDA, which builds the missile, have reportedly claimed that the Meteor has a "no escape zone" three times larger than that of the AIM 120D AMRAAM missile.

    According to War is Boring, "the no-escape zone is an aerial combat term for a cone-shaped area determined by the missile's capabilities -- from where a targeted aircraft cannot escape solely using its own manoeuverability."

    To survive the no escape zone, a fighter jet has to be able to jam the seeker of the incoming missile or deceive it by firing chaff, strips of metal foil released in the air to obstruct radar detection.

    At the moment, India and France are finalising details of the Inter-governmental agreement on India's acquisition of the Rafale. A French team, currently in Delhi, is reviewing the contract which runs into several thousand pages.

    Once this document is firmed up, the file goes back to the Cabinet Committee on Security for final approval, which, at this stage, is likely to be a formality.

    Prime Minister Narendra Modi had announced that India would be acquiring 36 Rafale fighter jets from France in an off-the-shelf purchase when he visited France in April last year. Deliveries of the fighter are likely to begin in 2019. Sharp differences between Indian and French price negotiators meant that neither side was able to achieve a breakthrough till now.

    http://www.ndtv.com/india-news/with-rafale-a-gamechanger-missile-that-puts-india-ahead-of-china-exclusive-1458726

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    Re: Rafale wins India's MMRCA

    Post  Pinto on Thu Sep 15, 2016 4:32 pm

    http://indianexpress.com/article/india/india-news-india/rafale-deal-to-be-signed-on-september-23/


    The much-anticipated contract for 36 Rafale fighter jets will be signed on September 23 as both India and France have finalized the details for the deal, which will cost about Euro 7.87 billion.

    There was buzz that the Scorpene leak might affect the Rafale deal, but Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar had assured that the leaked documents are not of concern.

    Government sources said the cost, offsets and service details have been finalized and the work is being done on the Inter-Governmental Agreement for the deal.

    A “working team” from France is already in town with their own translators and are going through the contract, running into several thousand pages, with their Indian counterparts.

    The sources said that once the IGA is firmed up, the document will go back to the Cabinet Committee on Security for a final clearance.
    They said that India has been able to save over Euro 590 million+ through tough price negotiations which began in January this year.
    Though the deal could have been firmed up earlier, issues like pricing and offsets took time as India wanted a better contract.

    Following intervention by Prime Minister Modi late last year, France agreed for a 50 per cent offset clause. This means creating business worth at least three billion Euros for Indian companies, both big and small, and generating thousands of jobs in India through offsets.

    A high-level delegation from France could come down for the formal signing of the contract, French sources said.

    The delivery for the fighter aircraft is expected to begin in 2019, with an annual inflation capped at 3.5 per cent.

    The weapon systems, part of the deal, will also include the new-age, beyond visual range missile ‘Meteor’, and Israeli helmet mounted display.

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    Re: Rafale wins India's MMRCA

    Post  AlfaT8 on Thu Sep 15, 2016 6:47 pm

    Pinto wrote:HIGHLIGHTS

    * India is acquiring Meteor, world's most advanced air-to-air missile

    * IAF's Rafales will come equipped with the Meteor

    * Neither Pakistan nor China possess a weapon of the same class

    As India and France get set to sign a Euro 7.87 billion contract for 36 French Rafale fighters, details are emerging on a previously undisclosed part of the deal, which will see India acquiring the Meteor, arguably the world's most advanced air-to-air missile.

    Sources tracking the final negotiations have confirmed to NDTV that the IAF's Rafales will come equipped with the Meteor designed to knock out enemy aircraft and cruise missiles significantly more than 100 km away.

    The acquisition of this weapon is likely to be game changer in South Asia. Neither Pakistan nor China, India's traditional military adversaries, possess a weapon of the same class.  

    The only other air-to-air missile as capable as the Meteor is the AIM-120D, the latest variant of the US Advanced Medium Range Air-to-Air Missile which is also designed to hit targets more than 100 km away.

    Analysts, however, point out that the Meteor is likely to be significantly more capable because of its ramjet engine.

    According to War is Boring, a leading international website that explores high technology weapons systems, "A conventional solid-fuel booster accelerates the Meteor after launch, like most air-to-air missiles. But while roaring through the air, the missile opens up a chute, allowing air to rush into the engine, which heats up the oxygen and propels the supersonic missile to Mach 4 (four times the speed of sound)."  

    Engineers from the European firm MBDA, which builds the missile, have reportedly claimed that the Meteor has a "no escape zone" three times larger than that of the AIM 120D AMRAAM missile.  

    According to War is Boring, "the no-escape zone is an aerial combat term for a cone-shaped area determined by the missile's capabilities -- from where a targeted aircraft cannot escape solely using its own manoeuverability."  

    To survive the no escape zone, a fighter jet has to be able to jam the seeker of the incoming missile or deceive it by firing chaff, strips of metal foil released in the air to obstruct radar detection.

    At the moment, India and France are finalising details of the Inter-governmental agreement on India's acquisition of the Rafale. A French team, currently in Delhi, is reviewing the contract which runs into several thousand pages.  

    Once this document is firmed up, the file goes back to the Cabinet Committee on Security for final approval, which, at this stage, is likely to be a formality.

    Prime Minister Narendra Modi had announced that India would be acquiring 36 Rafale fighter jets from France in an off-the-shelf purchase when he visited France in April last year. Deliveries of the fighter are likely to begin in 2019.  Sharp differences between Indian and French price negotiators meant that neither side was able to achieve a breakthrough till now.

    http://www.ndtv.com/india-news/with-rafale-a-gamechanger-missile-that-puts-india-ahead-of-china-exclusive-1458726

    What the hell are they going on about, the Meteor is 100+km missile which is more along the AIM-120C and R-77-1 rather then the AIM-120D or R-77M.
    Also this thing cost around $2.6mill a pop, even the AIM-120D cost less.

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    Re: Rafale wins India's MMRCA

    Post  Vladimir79 on Thu Sep 15, 2016 8:05 pm

    AlfaT8 wrote:

    What the hell are they going on about, the Meteor is 100+km missile which is more along the AIM-120C and R-77-1 rather then the AIM-120D or R-77M.
    Also this thing cost around $2.6mill a pop, even the AIM-120D cost less.

    100km is it's optimal kill zone meaning it is still at full velocity even chasing a target. AIM-120D has less range as it finishes its acceleration curve far short at 80km.


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    French Defence Minister coming to conclude Rafale deal

    Post  Pinto on Fri Sep 16, 2016 9:29 am

    India and France held several rounds of tough negotiations after Prime Minister Narendra Modi announced the decision for direct purchase of 36 Rafale jets.

    French Defence Minister Jean Yves Le Drian is likely to visit India next week to conclude the Inter-Governmental Agreement (IGA) between India and France for the purchase of 36 Rafale fighter jets, bringing to an end the 17-month-long negotiations.

    Mr. Drian is expected to be in Delhi on September 23, official sources said on Thursday.

    The sources earlier said that the draft of the IGA was being finalised after which it would go to the Cabinet Committee on Security (CCS) for formal clearance.

    Tough negotiations

    India and France had held several rounds of tough negotiations after Prime Minister Narendra Modi announced the decision for direct purchase of as many as 36 Rafale jets in fly-away condition in April 2014.

    The final deal is expected to cost about Euro 7.87 billion, translating to over Rs. 55,000 crore depending on the currency fixation in the contract.

    The aircraft will be slightly customised as per the requirements of the Indian Air Force and deliveries will begin in 2019 with sovereign guarantee by the French government.

    Rafale was originally selected under the Medium Multi-Role combat Aircraft (MMRCA) contest for 126 aircraft but the tender was subsequently withdrawn with no resolution in sight.

    http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/french-defence-minister-in-delhi-next-week-to-sign-rafale-deal/article9111666.ece

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    Re: Rafale wins India's MMRCA

    Post  GarryB on Fri Sep 16, 2016 9:57 am

    Are we forgetting RVV-BD?

    It is an export missile... obvious from its designation... who else would they export it to?


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    Re: Rafale wins India's MMRCA

    Post  AlfaT8 on Fri Sep 16, 2016 7:56 pm

    Vladimir79 wrote:
    AlfaT8 wrote:

    What the hell are they going on about, the Meteor is 100+km missile which is more along the AIM-120C and R-77-1 rather then the AIM-120D or R-77M.
    Also this thing cost around $2.6mill a pop, even the AIM-120D cost less.

    100km is it's optimal kill zone meaning it is still at full velocity even chasing a target.  AIM-120D has less range as it finishes its acceleration curve far short at 80km.  

    Well since this thing just came out i guess it'll be a while before solid number come out, so a possible 180~200 km range?, maybe.

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    Re: Rafale wins India's MMRCA

    Post  AlfaT8 on Fri Sep 16, 2016 8:13 pm

    GarryB wrote:Are we forgetting RVV-BD?

    It is an export missile... obvious from its designation... who else would they export it to?

    Isn't that one meant for larger aircraft and it's not like India has the radar on there MKI's to guide it, unless the Irbis-E is part of the Super Flanker upgrades, i am more concerned about the RVV-SD or the SD2 that Vympel's developing, any updates on that?

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    Re: Rafale wins India's MMRCA

    Post  GarryB on Sat Sep 17, 2016 10:59 am

    The RVV_BD is a long range weapons designed for heavy interceptors but it is intended for use against enemy force multipliers like Troop transports, AWACS and AEW aircraft, JSTARS and recon platforms etc etc.

    The Su-30MKI will get upgrades based on the FFGA just like the Su-35 in the Russian air force will get systems and equipment developed for the PAKFA.

    Late model Flankers in Indian service will have long range AESA radars perfectly capable of detecting targets at long range.

    the long range of the RVV-BD offers higher speed and energy in a long range missile duel which would allow you to fire first and leave the area... meaning shoot first and kill first... with more time to evade anything that might be launched in return.

    The makers of RVV-BD state it is for all the new generation Russian aircraft... MiG-35, Su-35, and PAK FA.



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    India to ink mega Rafale fighter deal with France on Friday

    Post  Pinto on Wed Sep 21, 2016 5:34 pm

    NEW DELHI: India will finally ink the deal for direct acquisition of 36 Rafale fighter jets from France on Friday, in what will be an urgently-needed booster dose for the country's dwindling air combat power. IAF, after all, is down to just 33 fighter squadrons when at least 42 are required for dissuasive deterrence against China and Pakistan.

    Defence ministry sources on Wednesday said the decks have been cleared for the inter-governmental agreement (IGA) with France after the requisite clearance from the Cabinet Committee on Security chaired by Prime Minister Narendra Modi.

    The IGA and associated commercial protocols will be inked on Friday in the presence of defence minister Manohar Parrikar and his French counterpart Jean-Yves Le Drian, who is slated to arrive on Thursday night.

    The overall cost of the 36 twin-engine Rafales, along with their weapon packages, associated supplies and logistics, is pegged at around 7.8 million euros (over Rs 59,000 crore), as earlier reported by TOI.

    Parrikar has repeatedly stressed that India has undertaken some real hard-nosed bargaining to bring down the overall cost of the deal.

    The NDA government had cited IAF's "critical operational necessity" as well as the need to cut time and costs to go in for direct acquisition of 36 Rafales last year after scrapping the original but deadlocked $20 billion MMRCA (medium multi-role combat aircraft) project to acquire 126 fighters.

    Though the new deal does not have a 'Make in India' component, as was the case in the MMRCA project, it does have the 50% offsets clause to ensure France will have to plough half of the actual contract value back into India.

    http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/India-to-ink-mega-Rafale-fighter-deal-with-France-on-Friday/articleshow/54447844.cms

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    Re: Rafale wins India's MMRCA

    Post  Pinto on Wed Sep 21, 2016 8:01 pm

    photo sharing sites

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    Re: Rafale wins India's MMRCA

    Post  JohninMK on Wed Sep 21, 2016 11:20 pm

    Pinto wrote:photo sharing sites
    Are those other figures to be added to the headline figure?

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    Re: Rafale wins India's MMRCA

    Post  Pinto on Thu Sep 22, 2016 9:10 am

    JohninMK wrote:
    Pinto wrote:photo sharing sites
    Are those other figures to be added to the headline figure?

    These figures have appeared in many newspapers regarding this deal issue

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    Re: Rafale wins India's MMRCA

    Post  JohninMK on Thu Sep 22, 2016 3:05 pm

    Pinto wrote:
    JohninMK wrote:
    Pinto wrote:photo sharing sites
    Are those other figures to be added to the headline figure?

    These figures have appeared in many newspapers regarding this deal issue
    So are the aircraft on their own about 3.3B Euro?

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    Re: Rafale wins India's MMRCA

    Post  AlfaT8 on Thu Sep 22, 2016 7:29 pm

    GarryB wrote:The RVV_BD is a long range weapons designed for heavy interceptors but it is intended for use against enemy force multipliers like Troop transports, AWACS and AEW aircraft, JSTARS and recon platforms etc etc.

    The Su-30MKI will get upgrades based on the FFGA just like the Su-35 in the Russian air force will get systems and equipment developed for the PAKFA.

    Late model Flankers in Indian service will have long range AESA radars perfectly capable of detecting targets at long range.

    the long range of the RVV-BD offers higher speed and energy in a long range missile duel which would allow you to fire first and leave the area... meaning shoot first and kill first... with more time to evade anything that might be launched in return.

    The makers of RVV-BD state it is for all the new generation Russian aircraft... MiG-35, Su-35, and PAK FA.


    So, no info on the new R-77 for PAK-FA?

    My bad, i didn't realize the N011 had that kind of power or that it's what Irbis is based on.

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    India, France conclude Rafale deal

    Post  Pinto on Fri Sep 23, 2016 2:34 pm

    The deal includes 36 aircraft, weapons, spares, support and maintenance.

    India and France on Friday concluded an Inter-Governmental Agreement for the purchase of 36 Rafale fighter jets to cost the nation Euro 7.87 billion.

    The signing was concluded at Hyderabad house in the presence of Defence minister Manohar Parrikar along with his French counterpart Jean Yves Le Drian.

    “I am certain that the Rafale and its performance will hold high the colours of the Indian Air Force. It will demonstrate unstinting efficiency in protecting the people of India and the sovereignty of the world’s largest democracy,” Eric Trappier, Dassault Aviation Chairman and CEO who was present at the event said in a statement later.

    India and France held several rounds of tough negotiations after Prime Minister Narendra Modi announced the decision for direct purchase of 36 Rafale jets in fly away condition in April 2014.

    The deal includes the 36 aircraft, weapons, spares, support and maintenance and the jet will be customised as per the requirements of the IAF.

    Deliveries are expected to begin 36 months from signing of the contract and completed in 30 months from then.

    Under the terms of the contract, France has to ensure that 75 percent of the fleet i.e. 27 fighters are operationally available at any given time.

    There is a 50 percent offset clause under which French industry will invest half the contract value back in the country which is expected to develop some expertise domestically in the aerospace sector.

    Like all defence deals, this deal too has a 50 percent optional clause under which India can procure 18 more jets at the same price but the government has far stated that they would not order beyond 36.

    Rafale was originally selected under the Medium Multi-Role Combat Aircraft (MMRCA) for 126 which began in 2007. But as the final price negotiations got too complicated, Modi government decided to go for a direct deal.

    While Rafale deal has seen a closure, the government is already scouting for another fighter het to be built in India under technology transfer, virtually reopening the original MMRCA contest.

    Keywords: Rafale deal, India-France ties



    http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/india-france-conclude-rafale-deal/article9140011.ece


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    Open to manufacturing Rafale in India if bigger orders come through: Dassault CEO Eric Trappier

    Post  Pinto on Fri Sep 23, 2016 5:57 pm

    With the deal for 36 Rafale jets in kitty, Dassault Aviation CEO Eric Trappier today said the French company is game for the ‘Make in India’ initiative and open to manufacturing the fighter aircraft in India if the plane is shortlisted for a bigger order.

    He said that with the Indian contract going through, the company feels that more international orders of the plane, capable of carrying nuclear weapons, will come in. “It is 36 at the moment. We feel that we can create a strong industrial partnership in India. We know very well the large number of aircraft that the IAF needs,” Trappier said in an interview to PTI here.

    He said that Dassault Aviation, manufacturer of the Rafale jets, is committed to the Make in India initiative.

    “Yes, of course. We will see how we can carry forward with the ‘Make in India’ initiative. We are open to manufacturing Rafales in India,” Trappier said when asked if the French firm was willing to manufacture the fighter aircraft in India if the plane was shortlisted for a bigger order.

    The CEO said the company will work with the IAF and the government to see how they can meet India’s needs.

    He said the focus was to build an industrial partnership in India for Rafale jets and the 50 per cent offset clause will be of help.

    Defence sources have made it clear that the deal for 36 Rafale jets does not come with an option clause. This means that more orders will come only through fresh talks. India had originally wanted 126 medium multi-role combat aircraft for which Rafale was shortlisted.

    However, due to the delay over cost and other issues, the Narendra Modi government decided to go for 36 Rafale jets in fly away condition.
    With India reducing the number, a multi-billion dollar aircraft contract is still in play.

    This has led to fresh pitches from those who lost out on the first deal including Boeing, Saab and Lockheed Martin.

    The sources have said India is looking at shortlisting one more aircraft, besides Tejas, to be manufactured domestically.

    Dassault Aviation hopes that Rafale, a twin-jet fighter aircraft able to operate from both an aircraft carrier and a shore base, makes the cut.

    The fully versatile Rafale is able to carry out all combat aviation missions — air defence, interception, ground support, in-depth strikes, reconnaissance, anti-ship strikes and nuclear deterrence.

    Rafale entered service with the French Navy in 2004 and with the French Air Force in 2006. In 2015, Egypt and Qatar ordered 24 Rafales each. As of June 30 this year, 152 Rafale aircraft had been delivered.

    http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/defence/open-to-manufacturing-rafale-in-india-if-bigger-orders-come-through-dassault-ceo-eric-trappier/articleshow/54485007.cms

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    Re: Rafale wins India's MMRCA

    Post  Pinto on Sat Sep 24, 2016 2:41 pm

    http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/defence/india-specific-enhancements-of-the-rafale-fighter-jet/articleshow/54490947.cms




    how to capture screen

    The Rafale deal caters to Indian Air Force’s specific needs. The fighter jet will be modified by France to meet the following:




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    The Rafale deal is a perfect case study in what is wrong with India's defence planning and purchases

    Post  Pinto on Sat Sep 24, 2016 4:29 pm

    There are few air forces in the world that have such a diverse inventory of aircraft as the Indian Air Force. After the Indian and French Defence ministers signed an Inter-Governmental Agreement for the purchase of 36 Rafale aircraft on Friday, the IAF is now staring at managing one of the most complex fleets in history.

    At the bottom of this purchase is another tale of how badly India manages its strategic planning and defence acquisitions. Already burdened with ageing aircraft, the IAF will now have to deal with multiple kinds of aircraft sourced across three continents. The bulk of the IAF’s inventory still comprises Soviet/Russian aircraft – the MiGs, Sukhois, AN-32s, IL-76. Add to this the British Jaguars, French Mirages and Rafales, American C-130s and it starts to look like a circus that picked up every new act that was available to it.

    But the nearly Rs 58,000 crore that India will pay for 36 aircraft comes at a steep cost, and ensures there won’t be money to buy the 126 aircraft that it originally needed. Where the balance 90 aircraft will come from and how much they will cost remains unclear.

    Some have claimed that the Indian government managed to bring the price down significantly to about Rs 58,000 crore. But different figures have been provided by the defence minister. The original price for 126 aircraft was pegged at Rs 90,000 crore, he said in an interview to Doordarshan on April 13, 2015. He revised this figure to Rs 1.3 lakh crore in a subsequent interview to PTI. How this figure was escalated by the defence minister has not been explained.

    However, if the earlier figure of Rs 90,000 crore is correct then the 36 aircraft are nearly double the cost of the original deal to buy 126 of them. The claim of Rs 90,000 crore, incidentally, was made by the defence minister to the very person who has now written that the government managed to reduce the price.

    Conflicting claims
    What is also revealing is the minister’s claim that this purchase was not to replace the ageing MiG 21s, but of a “high end” aircraft that was needed to plug the IAF’s pressing needs. However, the original 126 aircraft tender had been floated to plug the gap for the ageing MiG-21s. This explains why the MiG-31 and the Swiss Gripen became part of the original bid. How this need was replaced by the need for a “high end” aircraft also remains unclear. It also does not explain why the IAF then chose to ignore the proven Su-30 MKI, which has the same capabilities as the Rafale, but comes at a much lower cost. Either way, it reflects poorly on the higher defence planning process that led to this sudden acquisition.

    What is also interesting to note is that in April 2015, the Defence Minister was of the opinion that more Rafales would be purchased. But by May of the same year, his view had changed and he was of the opinion that there wouldn’t be any more purchase of the Rafale. “We are not buying the rest. We are only buying the direct 36,” he told PTI.

    With this purchase the IAF will have two functional squadrons of the Rafale. If it buys a further 18 (16 + two trainers), then it will have three. This is exactly what has dogged the IAF in the past. It has two squadrons of the Mirage 2000 and the MiG-29 each. In the past, as accidents dogged the squadrons, the IAF had to make emergency purchases just to keep up with the force levels of the Mirage 2000 squadron.

    From a logistics point of view, the IAF is looking at a nightmare. Today, it has to contend with aircrafts and their spare parts from Russia and the former Soviet Republics, France, UK and the US. This complexity will continue to increase if more types of combat aircraft are added to this mix. There is talk of manufacturing the American F-16 in India, which was also competing with the Rafale for the 126 aircraft deal.

    The key to any acquisition is the long term integrated planning that every service headquarters undertakes before zeroing in on equipment. The threats that will emanate in the future, coupled with the capabilities of the adversary, go into deciding the kind of weapon systems the military purchases to maintain its superiority. But as this case has shown, contradictory statements and postures, coupled with knee-jerk purchases will only add to the confusion that has dogged India’s military for decades.


    http://scroll.in/article/817343/the-rafale-deal-is-a-perfect-case-study-in-what-is-wrong-with-indias-defence-planning-and-purchases

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    Re: Rafale wins India's MMRCA

    Post  AlfaT8 on Sat Sep 24, 2016 7:23 pm

    Pinto wrote:
    The Rafale deal caters to Indian Air Force’s specific needs. The fighter jet will be modified by France to meet the following:


    The F, are these specs legit (loitering and range), doubt it, from a fuel perspective alone the vanilla SU-30 has double that of the Rafale ~9400kg vs ~4700kg.

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    Rafale in, but what next?

    Post  Pinto on Sat Sep 24, 2016 7:51 pm

    Almost a decade after then Defence Minister A K Antony approved the Request For Proposal to buy 126 Medium Multi-Role Combat Aircraft for the Indian Air Force, India today formally inked a much watered down pact with France for the supply of 36 Dassault Rafale aircraft. Apart from the aircraft, the US $ 8.7 billion (approx Rs 58,000 crore) deal includes weapons, spares, support and maintainance, and customised tweaks as demanded by the IAF, like the integration of Israeli helmet mounted displays.

    The original plan to buy 126 aircraft was scrapped following heated disputes between Paris and New Delhi over rising costs and France’s refusal to accept sole responsibility for delays and other issues, given that HAL was supposed to co-produce the aircraft with Dassault. In April 2014, Prime Minister Narendra Modi announced that India would buy 36 aircraft in a government to government deal. The fi rst plane will be delivered within three and half years, and the entire lot in fi ve years. According to the contract, Dassault has to ensure that at least 27 aircraft (or 75 per cent of the fl eet) are operationally available at any given time.

    The high-end twin engine aircraft, with a state of the art electronic scanning radar, will certainly add to the IAF’s capabilities. Add to that the new-age Meteor Beyond Visual Range missile, which can hit targets over 150 km away, and you have an aircraft which does not necessarily even have to enter enemy airspace before launching an attack. More importantly, the aircraft is capable of fi ring nuclear missiles, dramatically increasing India’s nuclear strike capabilities.

    The induction of these aircraft will be a shot in the arm for the IAF, grappling with a ageing fl eet and far less than the sanctioned number of squadrons. Whether India will order another lot from Dassault, or relaunch the tender, will depend on how fast we can induct the indigenous Tejas, which is still facing several teething issues.


    http://www.newindianexpress.com/opinion/editorials/Rafale-in-but-what-next/2016/09/24/article3628592.ece

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    India’s Rafale deal belies strained procurement ability

    Post  Pinto on Mon Sep 26, 2016 3:44 pm



    Military’s scaled-back agreement to buy fighter jets shows weakness as tensions with Pakistan flare


    India has finally inked an €8bn agreement to buy 36 Rafale fighter jets from France’s Dassault. Last week’s deal is one of the biggest weapons contracts New Delhi has ever signed and should plug a significant gap in the country’s air force.

    But, while the initial reaction might be relief, the protracted negotiations and the reduction of the deal to a third of its original size underscores the long-running problems with Indian defence procurement, an even more pressing concern given rising tensions with Pakistan. And while Narendra Modi enjoys the credit for a deal he personally helped broker, the Indian prime minister must now also work out where he gets the 90 aircraft he chose not to buy.

    image

    “This is a major, major step forward for the Indian air force. This deal has dominated their thinking for a very long time, to the detriment of other programmes,” said Ajai Shukla, a retired Indian army colonel and defence analyst. “But the huge negative is that 36 aircraft is just not enough.”

    India has known for a decade it needs to replace its fleet of Russian-built MiG-21s, which were bought between the 1960s and early 1980s. These aircraft have historically high accident rates, peaking in the 1990s at around 25 per 100,000 flying hours, five times the current Nato average.

    And across the Indian air force, jets are often grounded: the highest availability rate is among the Russian-built SU-30MKIs, of around 55 per cent.

    The original deal to buy 126 Rafales at a quoted price of about €12bn looked set to solve this problem, not least because the French reportedly offered to guarantee that 75 per cent of the fleet is airworthy at any one time.

    The deal faltered over how much construction would be done in India, and was eventually salvaged when Mr Modi offered to buy 36 of the original 126 aeroplanes directly from the French government. That disagreement, however, highlighted tensions between Mr Modi’s government, which is trying to boost domestic manufacturing under the tagline “Make in India”, and the armed forces, which want the best equipment available anywhere in the world.

    The reduced deal comes just as many Indians are clamouring for the country to assert itself militarily over Pakistan in the wake of last week’s attack on an Indian army base in Kashmir. “This is a massive problem for India,” says Walter Ladwig, a lecturer in international relations at King’s College, London. “The fact that the deal has been shrunk means the projected numbers of aircraft in each country’s air force are going to continue to tilt in Pakistan’s favour.”

    The agreement has also been criticised as being too expensive. Mr Shukla pointed out: “For [the price of one Rafale] the Indian air force can buy two and a half Sukhoi-30 MKI fighters — a heavy fighter as capable as the Rafale.”

    This is not the first time India has encountered problems with equipping its armed forces. The first Indian-made fighter jet, the Marut, a 1960s fighter-bomber, ended up being underpowered thanks to problems buying the right engines. In 2004, the long-delayed Arjun tank finally entered service, but by last year three-quarters werereportedly grounded thanks to multiple technical issues. Last year, India scrapped a four-year-old tender to buy 180,000 army rifles.

    Part of the problem, say military academics, is that the civilian-led Indian bureaucracy is not expert enough to make the right decisions to equip India’s armed services.Scandals such as Bofors — a corruption case over the purchase of artillery in the 1980s that was eventually dropped — have also led to a paralysis in decision making, argue some.

    Shashank Joshi, a senior fellow at the Royal United Services Institute think-tank, says: “The problem is, every single bureaucrat wants to get through their time in office without having a procurement scandal.”

    Another issue is that procurement deals are often taken on a piecemeal basis. The Rafales will be the seventh different type of fighter jet in the Indian air force — each one bringing its own set of spare parts, logistical support and training needs.

    These fighters take the total number of squadrons in the Indian air force from 33 to 35. But that remains well short of the 42 sanctioned by the government — and even further short of the 45 requested by air force chiefs.

    India could ask for more Rafales to plug the gap — though with no agreed price for future purchases, negotiations would then begin all over again. It could alternatively fast-track plans to build a more advanced jet in conjunction with the Russians.

    Other foreign companies such as Lockheed Martin and Saab, which failed in the original tender, are hoping there will be a re-run, but many experts think ministers are likely to propose building more Tejas aircraft, an Indian-built fighter.

    Not everyone in the Indian military establishment is likely to be pleased if that is the decision, but for now, say experts, the main task is simply to fill the gaps.

    “At least the deal is now done,” said Mr Shukla. “It has dominated the thinking of the ministry of defence for a very long time, to the detriment of other programmes.”

    https://www.ft.com/content/d717c15c...NTc3ZS00YzRkLTkyYWYtYjMxMjZmM2U5NGZk-VG9waWNz


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    Rafale jets deal will do little to arrest the free fall in IAF’s strength Source: http://defence.pk/threads/dassault-rafale-tender-news-discussions-thread-2.230070/page-388#ixzz4LYELSBR6

    Post  Pinto on Wed Sep 28, 2016 2:00 pm


    Initial euphoria over the culmination of a Euro 7.8-billion agreement for 36 Rafale fighter planes has given way to accusations that India has inked an expensive deal that falls short of meeting the expectations of its air force.

    Back in 2001, the Indian Air Force (IAF) sought at least 126 jets to replace ageing Soviet-era planes. Today, as a political dog fight unfolds over Rafale jets, the Congress says the 36 fighters are not enough to check the erosion of the IAF’s strength.

    The party has warned of a looming crisis in the IAF, whose fighter fleet has shrunk to 33 squadrons compared to a desirable 45 to respond to a joint threat from China and Pakistan.

    Strategic affairs expert Air Vice Marshal Kapil Kak (retd) says the IAF needs to induct up to 90 more Rafale-like jets on an emergency basis. “There’s no turning away from that reality,” he adds.
    Shortage of fighter planes is not the only concern.


    Gaps in mid-air refuelling capability, shortage of advanced warning platforms, high number of jets under maintenance and upgrading air defence systems are some other challenges lying ahead of the world’s fourth largest air force.

    IAF spokesperson Wing Commander Anupam Banerjee says the air force has plans in place to effectively utilise the available aerial platforms and weapon systems. “Any shortcoming will be made good in a short period of time to further enhance our capability,” he points out, adding all international air forces had a mix of modern and ageing aircraft.

    image upload


    Then, there are issues with the IAF’s ageing utility helicopter fleet. The IAF finds itself stretched due to shortage of heavy-lift and attack choppers — and its transport capability needs to be enhanced swiftly.

    “India’s neighbours, especially China, have pressed the accelerator on modernising their air forces,” warns former IAF chief Air Chief Marshal Fali Major. “The capability gaps will keep increasing if we don’t hasten things up.”

    A $2-billion deal to buy midair refuellers to expand the IAF’s strategic reach is stuck, as India and Airbus have not agreed on the price. “The tankers are required urgently if we have to stay prepared to counter China in the eastern sector,” a senior IAF officer points out on the condition of anonymity. “The deal has dragged on for over seven years.”

    The air force needs to ramp up its airborne surveillance capability to detect enemy planes and missiles. It has only three AWACS (airborne warning and control system) aircraft, though the requirement is higher.


    The numbers are not enough if China and Pakistan pose a collusive threat. “The capability will play a significant role in terms of covering the eastern and western fronts during offensive operations,” says former IAF vice chief Air Marshal KK Nohwar (retd).

    The IAF will induct three Brazilian Embraer airborne early warning and control (AEW&C) system aircraft in 2017, six years behind schedule. The AWACS is a more robust monitoring system that provides 360-degree coverage, compared to AEW&C’s 270-degree capability. The AWACS also has superior range and endurance.

    Besides shortage of combat squadrons, another glaring hole in the IAF’s capability is low availability of fighter planes to carry out missions at any given moment or serviceability in military parlance.
    India has a fleet of nearly 200 Su-30 fighter jets, but just half of them are ready to undertake missions at all times. “Barring the Mirage 2000, the IAF is struggling to improve the availability of most fighters,” says Kak.

    IAF officials say aircraft availability should be around 75% during peacetime.

    Fixing gaps in air defence is crucial to stave off threats from missiles and fighters. Major says deploying the Russian S 400 Triumf air defence system and the Israeli SPYDER low-level quick reaction missiles should be one of the top priorities for the IAF. India is yet to hammer out a plan to collaborate with a foreign partner to co-develop and co-produce a multirole transport aircraft (MTA) after an Indo-Russian project failed to take off.

    The IAF is betting on US-origin Chinook heavy-lift helicopters to fill another capability gap, but deliveries will begin only in 2019. It currently operates a solitary Soviet-origin Mi-26 chopper to deliver payloads to high altitudes. India’s new attack helicopters — the AH-64E Apache Longbow — will also come after three years.
    The IAF is hoping for quick execution of a $2-billion project to build medium-lift transport planes in India to replace the ageing Avro fleet.

    Pilot training has been hit by a lack of intermediate jet trainers. The project was sanctioned in July 1999 but it has still not materialised, forcing the IAF to use old Kiran Mk-II aircraft for training.

    The Pathankot and Uri attacks have exposed the vulnerability of military bases. Experts say India should fast-track the security upgrade at sensitive airbases with smart fences, vibration detection systems, mini-drones, thermal cameras and night vision equipment.



    http://www.hindustantimes.com/india-news/rafale-jets-deal-will-do-little-to-arrest-the-free-fall-in-iaf-s-strength/story-OQKlTiQqqPlgaY4c4GQM5M.html

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    Re: Rafale wins India's MMRCA

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