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    2S35 Koalitsiya-SV 152mm

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    George1
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    Re: 2S35 Koalitsiya-SV 152mm

    Post  George1 on Wed Mar 18, 2015 12:42 am

    New photos of Koalition SPG delivered for practice for the VIctory day parade?

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    Re: 2S35 Koalitsiya-SV 152mm

    Post  TR1 on Wed Mar 18, 2015 1:20 am

    That pics resolution is infuriating.
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    Re: 2S35 Koalitsiya-SV 152mm

    Post  Zivo on Wed Mar 18, 2015 1:25 am

    Take it off!
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    Re: 2S35 Koalitsiya-SV 152mm

    Post  Zivo on Wed Mar 18, 2015 1:37 am

    With crew.

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    Re: 2S35 Koalitsiya-SV 152mm

    Post  TR1 on Wed Mar 18, 2015 1:44 am

    One more:



    Looks like a higher res pic that was downsized. Fuuuuu
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    Re: 2S35 Koalitsiya-SV 152mm

    Post  Regular on Wed Mar 18, 2015 11:28 am

    Can You guys tell me what new doest it offer compared to recent modification of MSTA seen in expos?



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    Re: 2S35 Koalitsiya-SV 152mm

    Post  etaepsilonk on Wed Mar 18, 2015 12:33 pm

    Regular wrote:Can You guys tell me what new doest it offer compared to recent modification of MSTA seen in expos?



    Fifth generation. Nanotechnology. Net analogov v myre.
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    Re: 2S35 Koalitsiya-SV 152mm

    Post  Morpheus Eberhardt on Wed Mar 18, 2015 1:01 pm

    Regular wrote:Can You guys tell me what new doest it offer compared to recent modification of MSTA seen in expos?

    Koalitsiya is an extremely high rate of fire gun, irrespective of its single-barrel or double barrel developments. Koalitsiya is in a totally new class with respect to its rate of fire.

    As I have written previously on this forum, a higher rate of fire increases the destructive capability of an artillery system on a per round basis. This is the main rational behind the development of Koalitsiya.

    In term of ballistics/range it is superior to even 2S5, which itself is in a totally different class than that of Msta-S. It should be kept in mind that 2S5 was/is an <army level>/<operational command level> gun, while Msta-S was/is a divisional/brigade level gun.

    In terms of an analogy, Koalitsiya to Msta is like an automatic rifle to a semiautomatic pistol.
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    Re: 2S35 Koalitsiya-SV 152mm

    Post  TR1 on Wed Mar 18, 2015 5:54 pm

    Regular wrote:Can You guys tell me what new doest it offer compared to recent modification of MSTA seen in expos?



    Those radar fuses are alone a huge deal.

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    Re: 2S35 Koalitsiya-SV 152mm

    Post  cracker on Wed Mar 18, 2015 6:02 pm

    uhhhh... not sure what you mean dude.

    2S19 and 2S5 fire the same ammo, and have practically the same range. 2S5 is mostly a cheaper artillery system, while 2S19 is more recent and totally enclosed, much more armored, much more automated. The 2S19 is intended for armored troops mostly, following tanks in all kinds of environement, while the 2S5 is a classic long range artillery.

    2S5 has a slightly longer barrel and maybe higher pressure tolerance, but ammo are strictly the same.

    2S3 however fire the same ammo too, but only limited to a smaller charge load than bigger systems (smaller load of propellant for the same case pattern I think)...


    Or am I totally wrong? In fact I think 2S3 and thus the D-20 howitzer, both use the WW2 (infact pre WW2) pattern cartridge, as used in ML-20, D-1 or ISU-152 systems.... while the Msta and Giatsint systems both use a newly developped case pattern, bigger.

    Koalitsya will use the same pattern ammo, or a brand new 3rd generation 152mm case?

    As far as I know, we can say 152mm systems are in two category:

    ML-20
    D-1
    SU / ISU-152
    D-20
    2S3 , are all "medium" power and range weapons, reaching 15-18km with standard ammo (much less for D-1 small howitzer)

    while 2A65
    2A36
    2S5
    2S19, are a level above, usually reaching 28-30km with standard ammo.

    Question is, where is Koalitsya? Judging by new gun, longer, higher pressure tolerance, and possibly new type of propellant for the cartridge (while retaining case pattern of 2S19 and having the ability to use old surplus ammo), i'd say 32 or 33km as standard is expectable, and if a new cartridge comes with it, somewhere between 35-40km
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    Re: 2S35 Koalitsiya-SV 152mm

    Post  TR1 on Wed Mar 18, 2015 6:09 pm

    Koalition has already been testing rounds at 48km.

    What rounds specifically, I can't say. (As in don't know, not being mysterious).

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    Re: 2S35 Koalitsiya-SV 152mm

    Post  cracker on Wed Mar 18, 2015 6:59 pm

    surely rocket assisted? I was only talking basic HE with full charge
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    Re: 2S35 Koalitsiya-SV 152mm

    Post  TR1 on Thu Mar 19, 2015 1:07 am

    cracker wrote:surely rocket assisted? I was only talking basic HE with full charge

    I just double checked- yes.

    Normal shell range: 30km +.
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    Re: 2S35 Koalitsiya-SV 152mm

    Post  TR1 on Thu Mar 19, 2015 1:24 am



    The magical fuse? Maybe.

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    Re: 2S35 Koalitsiya-SV 152mm

    Post  Morpheus Eberhardt on Thu Mar 19, 2015 11:13 am

    cracker wrote:... 2S19 and 2S5 fire the same ammo, ...

    What does it take for a person that obviously has no understanding and no knowledge about the topic to so audaciously write the embarrassing statements that you wrote in your post, for everyone to see?

    Every one of your statements were embarrassingly incorrect or irrelevant.

    You could have at least taken the information that I had provided and gone to a few good references and checked them.

    Oh, I think I just now got it; I bet your source is a computer game.  lol!  lol!  lol!  lol!  lol!  lol!  lol!  lol!  lol!  lol!

    Are you the same forum user as the other Russian guy, who used computer games as his source? He destroyed many threads because of that. Moderators, can you please check on this.


    Last edited by Morpheus Eberhardt on Thu Mar 19, 2015 12:51 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Re: 2S35 Koalitsiya-SV 152mm

    Post  GarryB on Thu Mar 19, 2015 11:35 am

    2S5 has a slightly longer barrel and maybe higher pressure tolerance, but ammo are strictly the same.

    Not true.

    Or am I totally wrong? In fact I think 2S3 and thus the D-20 howitzer, both use the WW2 (infact pre WW2) pattern cartridge, as used in ML-20, D-1 or ISU-152 systems.... while the Msta and Giatsint systems both use a newly developped case pattern, bigger.

    Koalitsya will use the same pattern ammo, or a brand new 3rd generation 152mm case?

    As far as I know, we can say 152mm systems are in two category:

    ML-20
    D-1
    SU / ISU-152
    D-20
    2S3 , are all "medium" power and range weapons, reaching 15-18km with standard ammo (much less for D-1 small howitzer)

    while 2A65
    2A36
    2S5
    2S19, are a level above, usually reaching 28-30km with standard ammo.

    There is the D-1 152mm howitzer too, but it is obsolete... and has its own type of ammo.

    The 30F59 is a HE Frag projectile developed specifically for the 2S5 self propelled gun and the 2A36 towed version that is not used with the 2S19.

    The 30F45 and 30F64 HE frag rounds are used in the D-20, ML-20, the 2S3M, 2A65 and 2S19 guns... the difference in performance with the 2S3M and 2S19 is down to barrel length.

    They come with three charge options... long range, full charge, and reduced range charge. The reduced charge makes the round more accurate for use against close range targets using high elevation as the reduced charge greatly reduces flight time to target so it is less effected by wind and gives the target less time to move.

    Koalition has already been testing rounds at 48km.

    Early talk including information about the electronic fuses with Glonass guidance integrated mentioned 80km range for the ground and naval models, but later reports mentioned 70km with new ammo and about 45km with old ammo types.

    surely rocket assisted? I was only talking basic HE with full charge

    Most likely 70km with rocket assisted base bleed rounds.

    The magical fuse? Maybe.

    Pretty darn amazing... would vote you up but will have to wait till tomorrow... Smile

    What does it take for a person that obviously has no understanding and no knowledge about the topic to so audaciously write the embarrassing statements that you wrote in your post, for everyone to see?

    A keyboard...

    Are you the same forum user, as the other Russian guy, who used computer games as his source? He destroyed many threads because of that. Moderators, can you please check on this.

    Don't be so mean... imagine if I was mean and nasty and banned you for excessive use of smileys...

    He has put up his figures and information for everyone to see, now is the time for you to offer advice and corrections rather than abuse him and his parents... Razz

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    Re: 2S35 Koalitsiya-SV 152mm

    Post  cracker on Thu Mar 19, 2015 9:47 pm

    Morpheus Eberhardt wrote:
    cracker wrote:... 2S19 and 2S5 fire the same ammo, ...

    What does it take for a person that obviously has no understanding and no knowledge about the topic to so audaciously write the embarrassing statements that you wrote in your post, for everyone to see?

    Every one of your statements were embarrassingly incorrect or irrelevant.

    You could have at least taken the information that I had provided and gone to a few good references and checked them.

    Oh, I think I just now got it; I bet your source is a computer game.  lol!  lol!  lol!  lol!  lol!  lol!  lol!  lol!  lol!  lol!

    Are you the same forum user as the other Russian guy, who used computer games as his source? He destroyed many threads because of that. Moderators, can you please check on this.

    Nice way to correct someone, if you read my message you'll see "maybe i'm wrong but i always thought:"

    WTF are you even talking about, other russian guy, computer games? destroyed threads? please stop smoking crack dunno

    so please, educate me, well of knowledge you are. I want the cartridge size of all 152mm systems. The brass or steel case of all 152mm systems, how many types are they? which system uses what? giatsint has its own larger case than msta? and msta uses the same as the 2S3? And ww2 152mm like ML-20 is even different? i'm not talking about shells, i know shells evolued and many types exist, only the casings. I know about various charge loadings, what I ask is the object itself, the casings.

    And why would russians do that, field 2 totally different 152mm ammo totally uncompatible? And what koalitsya uses then, the same as giatsint?
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    Re: 2S35 Koalitsiya-SV 152mm

    Post  TR1 on Thu Mar 19, 2015 11:16 pm

    Garry the 48km was rocket assisted.

    Normal rounds were in the 30-35km+ range.
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    Re: 2S35 Koalitsiya-SV 152mm

    Post  GarryB on Fri Mar 20, 2015 12:50 pm

    Garry the 48km was rocket assisted.

    Normal rounds were in the 30-35km+ range.

    Well that is pathetic, considering they can got standard rounds to 41km in 2011 from the 52 calibre MSTA...

    Source: http://izvestia.ru/news/501822




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    Re: 2S35 Koalitsiya-SV 152mm

    Post  GarryB on Fri Mar 20, 2015 1:15 pm


    And why would russians do that, field 2 totally different 152mm ammo totally uncompatible?

    Two very different jobs... the 2S5 was pretty much the replacement for the 130mm (M-46) field gun.

    Such large calibre guns use separate loading rounds so the projectiles are separate, while the propellent charges come in different sizes... the rounds used for the 2S3M and 2S19 use three charges... a very big long range charge, and two shorter charges for full power and reduced power charges.

    The propellent charges for the 2S5 come in only two versions full and reduced charge.


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    Re: 2S35 Koalitsiya-SV 152mm

    Post  cracker on Fri Mar 20, 2015 4:57 pm

    ok, and you have photos or drawings of the components of ammunition of both 152mm families?
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    Re: 2S35 Koalitsiya-SV 152mm

    Post  TR1 on Fri Mar 20, 2015 6:49 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    Garry the 48km was rocket assisted.

    Normal rounds were in the 30-35km+ range.

    Well that is pathetic, considering they can got standard rounds to 41km in 2011 from the 52 calibre MSTA...

    Source: http://izvestia.ru/news/501822



    Garry, Izevstiya is a joke that you should not waste your time reading.

    ALSO, in the article you linked:

    "Военный эксперт, главный редактор журнала «Арсенал» Виктор Мураховский пояснил «Известиям», что старыми боеприпасами даже новая «Мста» будет стрелять лишь на 10% дальше, чем старая, то есть максимум на 32 к

    Читайте далее: http://izvestia.ru/news/501822#ixzz3UwgJZrq4"

    Itself states with normal rounds the new MSTA has a 32km maximum range.
    The 41km is clearly assisted rounds.
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    Re: 2S35 Koalitsiya-SV 152mm

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Fri Mar 20, 2015 7:08 pm

    TR1 wrote:
    GarryB wrote:
    Garry the 48km was rocket assisted.

    Normal rounds were in the 30-35km+ range.

    Well that is pathetic, considering they can got standard rounds to 41km in 2011 from the 52 calibre MSTA...

    Source: http://izvestia.ru/news/501822



    Garry, Izevstiya is a joke that you should not waste your time reading.

    ALSO, in the article you linked:

    "Военный эксперт, главный редактор журнала «Арсенал» Виктор Мураховский пояснил «Известиям», что старыми боеприпасами даже новая «Мста» будет стрелять лишь на 10% дальше, чем старая, то есть максимум на 32 к

    Читайте далее: http://izvestia.ru/news/501822#ixzz3UwgJZrq4"

    Itself states with normal rounds the new MSTA has a 32km maximum range.
    The 41km is clearly assisted rounds.

    Is there any word of glide-kits for Koalition's artillery shells? Glide kits can actually help extend the range of already extended range shells to a significant margin. The US Navy has had some good results with glide-kits, like plus 100 km's of range, and of course I know naval guns have the advantage of a much bigger platform, with better stabilization, with a longer gun (62 calibers for the Advanced Gun System and the LRLAP rounds) and more powerful propellants, but still a 40 km+ extended shell could have a additional 15-20 km's with a glide kit.
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    Re: 2S35 Koalitsiya-SV 152mm

    Post  GarryB on Sat Mar 21, 2015 7:04 am

    Itself states with normal rounds the new MSTA has a 32km maximum range.
    The 41km is clearly assisted rounds.

    So surely the brand new Coalition should do rather better?


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    Re: 2S35 Koalitsiya-SV 152mm

    Post  2SPOOKY4U on Sat Mar 21, 2015 7:34 am

    You never know, Mindstorm has informed us of the Smerch's 200km range munitions, perhaps a similar case of self-reinforcing bandwagon-type of figures have arisen here?

    It would not be the first time.

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    Re: 2S35 Koalitsiya-SV 152mm

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