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    2S25 Sprut-SD

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    George1
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    2S25 Sprut-SD

    Post  George1 on Mon Jan 23, 2012 9:08 am

    The 2S25 Sprut-SD is a self-propelled tank destroyer or light tank, built on the BMD-3 chassis. Designed for use by the Russia VDV airborne forces it is light and highly mobile.
    The 125 mm 2S25 self-propelled anti-tank gun was developed by the Volgograd Tractor Plant Joint Stock Company to meet the requirements of the Russian Air Assault Divisions.

    Do we know anything about the production numbers?
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    Re: 2S25 Sprut-SD

    Post  TR1 on Mon Jan 23, 2012 9:11 am

    Yes, 4 batteries, 24 vehicles in total. Production is not continuing as of right now Sad.
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    Re: 2S25 Sprut-SD

    Post  GarryB on Mon Jan 23, 2012 10:07 am

    The Army is getting new vehicle family platforms in about 3 years from now.

    They include:

    the Armata heavy vehicle with tank level protection and new engine family ranging in power from 1,300hp for the standard right up to a potential 2,400hp engine

    the Boomerang medium wheeled vehicle in the 25 ton range that is amphibious and has rear ramp access.

    The Kurganets-25 medium tracked vehicle in the 25 ton range that is amphibious and also has rear ramp access and will also be adapted by the Navy with direct drive propellers and modified to operate in rough seas.

    The Typhoon light wheeled vehicle in the 10-12 ton range that will likely be amphibious and come in 4 and 6 wheeled models with engines in the 450hp range.


    They have developed about 5 electronics suites for different role, so they will include an electronics suite for tanks and tank like gun vehicles, so there will be an Armata tank, a Boomerang tank, a Kurganets-25 tank, and a Typhoon tank, though obviously the Typhoon tank will be a very light tank.

    In my opinion they will likely modify the Kurganets-25 to make it slightly lighter to make it easier to air drop so Sprut will be based on its chassis.

    Or they might just develop their own new vehicle based on a modified Typhoon or Boomerang.
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    Re: 2S25 Sprut-SD

    Post  George1 on Mon Jan 23, 2012 10:14 am

    GarryB wrote:The Army is getting new vehicle family platforms in about 3 years from now.

    They include:

    the Armata heavy vehicle with tank level protection and new engine family ranging in power from 1,300hp for the standard right up to a potential 2,400hp engine

    the Boomerang medium wheeled vehicle in the 25 ton range that is amphibious and has rear ramp access.

    The Kurganets-25 medium tracked vehicle in the 25 ton range that is amphibious and also has rear ramp access and will also be adapted by the Navy with direct drive propellers and modified to operate in rough seas.

    The Typhoon light wheeled vehicle in the 10-12 ton range that will likely be amphibious and come in 4 and 6 wheeled models with engines in the 450hp range.


    They have developed about 5 electronics suites for different role, so they will include an electronics suite for tanks and tank like gun vehicles, so there will be an Armata tank, a Boomerang tank, a Kurganets-25 tank, and a Typhoon tank, though obviously the Typhoon tank will be a very light tank.

    In my opinion they will likely modify the Kurganets-25 to make it slightly lighter to make it easier to air drop so Sprut will be based on its chassis.

    Or they might just develop their own new vehicle based on a modified Typhoon or Boomerang.

    Are there any photos for these vehicles?
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    Re: 2S25 Sprut-SD

    Post  GarryB on Mon Jan 23, 2012 11:59 am

    No.

    They are concepts for the moment.

    The basic designs are pretty much existing vehicles, ie T-90, BMP, BTR, etc etc but with improved protection and major faults corrected and split into families of vehicles based on weight.

    The tank level protection based vehicles are the Armata family of tanks, BTR/BMP, air defence vehicles ( "missile" and "gun and missile" variants likely), self propelled artillery, and other vehicles all using the same Armata chassis to give similar levels of mobility and protection and reducing the number of engine types and vehicle types in a brigade.

    The medium protection level vehicles are based on the BMP really, but will include wheeled (Boomerang... a BTR-90 like vehicle with rear ramp acess and heavier) and tracked (Kurganets-25) vehicles which at 25 tons they are a good 7 tons heavier than the BMP-3, and there will be Sprut like light tank models, BMP/BTR like models etc etc.

    The light protection level vehicles will be wheeled BTR like vehicles and will be based on the The Typhoon chassis and will include a gun platform vehicle and IFV/APC models and air defence vehicles and artillery etc etc.

    Clearly the Armata is tank level armour with a chassis that has the engine in the front or the rear. For a tank the engine in the rear allows a conventional tank layout. For the BMP/BTR of the Armata brigade it makes more sense for the engine to be mounted in the front to allow a rear ramp door for troops to get out faster and easier.

    I would think there will be Boomerang and Kurganets-25 families of all the different types of vehicles in a Brigade and then Brigades where the roads are good can be all Boomerangs, but units where there are no roads can be all Kurganets-25s.

    The Typhoon light vehicles will be highly mobile and may include vehicles like Tigr-M, but will include a "Tank", and IFV and APC and artillery etc etc.

    Of course because of weight contraints the light tank might have a new 45mm cannon or a 57mm cannon instead of a full calibre 125mm gun, but the electronics suite developed for the Armata tank will also be used in the Boomerang tank and the Kurganets-25 tank and the Typhoon tank.
    The Boomerang and Kurganets-25 should be able to take the same 125mm gun of the Sprut unless the 45mm or 57mm gun they were working on for the next BMP is spectacular and is a better option.

    Equally because of weight the artillery vehicle in the Typhoon light brigades might be equipped with a 120mm gun/mortar instead of a 152mm gun and the Medium brigades might use 120mm gun/mortars as well.

    As a replacement for the ASU-85 the 2S25 is a very good vehicle and in many ways it will compliment the troop transport model of the BMD with ATGMs... especially if Kornet-EM missiles are used in the latter, but as I say it is likely that the BMD family will soon be replaced with an airborne optimised Kurganets-25 (like the Navy is getting a naval optimised version too).

    Note above when mentioning troop transports in the various weight classes I have mentioned BMP and BTR, and this is currently unclear.
    Right now the BTR is what is called in the west an APC... a lightly armed troop transport, though the BTR-82A with a 30mm cannon and 30mm grenade launcher and coaxial MG is comparable in firepower to a British Warrior IFV.
    The BMP on the other hand is called in the west an IFV and tends to have more firepower... especially the BMP-3 level of armament.

    The question is, with the firepower of a BMP that is a lot of ammo in a small confined space... now they took the ammo out of the crew compartment on the Armata to make the vehicle safer... does it make sense to have a troop transport BMP like Armata with a load of heavy ammo near the troops?

    This leads to speculation as to whether there will be a BTR troop transport and a "BMP troop transport/fire support vehicle" all in one, or if they will separate the troop transport role and the fire support vehicle role and perhaps just have a BTR APC with BTR level firepower, and a separate fire power vehicle like the BMPT with no troops but double the ammo of a BMP-3 and a range of weapons.

    These new vehicles will be armata based, though the family pattern will be repeated in the lighter vehicle family categories... which means that there will be a lightly armed troop transport Armata, Boomerang, Kurganets-25, and Typhoon, and a BMPT fire support vehicle Armata, Boomerang, Kurganets-25, and Typhoon.

    The BMPT has tank support roles, but can also be used as convoy escort and in a great number of other roles in low intensity operations, where a 125mm shell is over kill.

    For situations where protection is important then the Armata BMPT is the ideal choice, yet in roles where armour is not so critical and mobility is important then one of the lighter vehicles BMPT models could be used.

    Again because of weight the weapon load will vary between vehicle weights, but the Typhoon might just have 4 independent external 30 cal MG positions with a 40mm or 30mm grenade launcher attached, and perhaps a main turret with a twin barrel 30mm cannon and just loads of ammo.

    The heavier vehicles could add a direct fire HE weapon like the 100mm medium pressure gun from the BMP-3 as its payload is heavy but the ammo is compact.

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    Artillery Airborne Forces

    Post  Austin on Tue Jan 24, 2012 6:41 pm

    Airborne Artillery in 2012 by a third update to its fleet - the Ministry of Defense
    http://ria.ru/defense_safety/


    Artillery Airborne Forces in 2012, will be staffed by a third by new self-propelled guns, told RIA Novosti the Russian Defence Ministry representative on Major Navy Irina Kruglov.

    "Airborne are armed with more than 20 self-propelled artillery (CAO) 2S25" Octopus-SD. "In 2011, the supply of guns in the Navy had been made, but before the end of 2012 Marines are planning to get about ten of these guns that will meet up to one thirds of the existing demand, "- she said.

    Light tracked amphibious aviadesantiruemaya antitank gun 2S25 "Octopus-SD" is designed for combat tanks, self-propelled gun mounts, armored personnel carriers and other mobile armored targets, fire support units paratroopers. Caliber - 125 mm, the maximum range - four kilometer rate - seven rounds per minute.
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    Airborne Artillery in 2012 by a third update to its fleet - the Ministry of Defense

    Post  TR1 on Tue Jan 24, 2012 7:06 pm

    Niiiice if true. Was pissed when they stopped buying Sprut.

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    Re: 2S25 Sprut-SD

    Post  a89 on Fri Jan 11, 2013 11:11 am

    Modernization of Sprut-SD:

    gurkhan.blogspot.com/2013/01/225.html

    It is supposed to incorporate BMP-3 elements to make it more compatible. Thermal sight and modular armour should also be added.
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    Re: 2S25 Sprut-SD

    Post  GarryB on Sat Jan 12, 2013 9:45 am

    Thanks for posting.

    It could already use all standard 125mm rounds including the guided rounds and the ANIET timer detonation system, adding new thermal sights and components from the BMP-3 should make it easier to maintain and operate, and also make it rather more attractive as an export item.


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    Re: 2S25 Sprut-SD

    Post  TR1 on Fri Feb 08, 2013 8:38 am

    http://otvaga2004.mybb.ru/viewtopic.php?id=631&p=7

    Sprut hull armor was rated as 14.5mm proof from the front, 12.7 from sides, and 5.45 in the rear.

    Seems like surprisingly good protection for sides, I wonder what round + distance we are talking here, can't be AP from point blank (that would me nothing short of amazing).

    Now I am curios as to BMD-4Ms protection, especially with that nice uparmor kit
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    Re: 2S25 Sprut-SD

    Post  TR1 on Sun May 26, 2013 7:47 am

    Another day, another stupid Izvestya article. I really think we should have an informal forum rule, where Izvestya news are banned.

    Check this out:
    http://lenta.ru/news/2013/05/24/poulpe/

    According to UNNAMED SOURCES in the VDV, that talked to Izvestya, the Sprut will not be bought anymore, because one burned down after the Moscow parade a few years ago. A new vehicle will be developed based on the BMD-4M.

    One little problem- nothing burned down in the parade. A vehicle DID have a fire, which was put out.
    The kicker? The vehicle was a BMD-4 Very Happy .

    http://www.kavkazcenter.com/eng/content/2008/05/12/9598_1.jpg (yes yes, Kavkaz center, I quickly googled the pic, who cares)


    Ooops.
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    Re: 2S25 Sprut-SD

    Post  TR1 on Sat Jun 08, 2013 7:52 am

    http://i-korotchenko.livejournal.com/661550.html

    Finally some SPrut news that make sense.

    Vehicle chassis and drivetrain is being unified with BMD-4M.
    Also receiving new electronics (being digitized whatever that means in this context) and receiving new sights and thermals.
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    Re: 2S25 Sprut-SD

    Post  GarryB on Sat Jun 08, 2013 12:20 pm

    Good.

    The Sprut was based on the BMD-3, so upgrading it to BMD-4 components and chassis means it is the same as other BMD-4s in the force structure.

    The new electronics will likely be prototype models for the new vehicle family avionics suites.


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    Re: 2S25 Sprut-SD

    Post  TheArmenian on Sat Jun 08, 2013 3:20 pm

    TR1 wrote:http://i-korotchenko.livejournal.com/661550.html

    Finally some SPrut news that make sense.

    Vehicle chassis and drivetrain is being unified with BMD-4M.
    Also receiving new electronics (being digitized whatever that means in this context) and receiving new sights and thermals.

    Does this mean that there will be new Sprut production and purchases?
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    Re: 2S25 Sprut-SD

    Post  TR1 on Sat Jun 08, 2013 8:18 pm

    That's how I interpreted it.

    All of this could have happened several years ago, but such is life.
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    Re: 2S25 Sprut-SD

    Post  Cyberspec on Sun Jun 09, 2013 1:50 am

    I'm glad they've chosen to go ahead with the Sprut. Because there was a push from some quarters to abandon it on the grounds that an airborne tank is an outdated concept.

    All of this could have happened several years ago

    True...unnecessary waste of time
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    Re: 2S25 Sprut-SD

    Post  GarryB on Sun Jun 09, 2013 10:45 am

    I'm glad they've chosen to go ahead with the Sprut. Because there was a push from some quarters to abandon it on the grounds that an airborne tank is an outdated concept.

    There is a belief that airborne forces are obsolete and that there might be a future for air mobile forces (ie helicopter delivered forces) but not for parachute troops.

    Of course this is in the west where airborne forces are not mechanised so when dropped behind enemy lines lack mobility and firepower.

    In comparison a VDV force can be dropped deep behind enemy lines 100km away from an air field well outside any air defence system that air field might operate. With their armour the VDV force could then drive to the target airfield and mount an attack within 2-3 hours of landing... the landing in the middle of nowhere will confuse the enemy as to where they will strike and the quick movement to the target airfield will be a surprise and the fire power of the VDV force will easily defeat any ground security detachment the air field might have as it will mostly be defended from air attack this deep in enemy territory.

    Once the enemy airfield is captured then heavier forces can be flown in and landed and you have a powerful foothold deep in enemy territory.


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    Re: 2S25 Sprut-SD

    Post  TR1 on Tue Aug 20, 2013 9:26 pm

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    Re: 2S25 Sprut-SD

    Post  flamming_python on Wed Aug 21, 2013 12:54 am

    GarryB wrote:
    I'm glad they've chosen to go ahead with the Sprut. Because there was a push from some quarters to abandon it on the grounds that an airborne tank is an outdated concept.
    There is a belief that airborne forces are obsolete and that there might be a future for air mobile forces (ie helicopter delivered forces) but not for parachute troops.

    Of course this is in the west where airborne forces are not mechanised so when dropped behind enemy lines lack mobility and firepower.

    In comparison a VDV force can be dropped deep behind enemy lines 100km away from an air field well outside any air defence system that air field might operate. With their armour the VDV force could then drive to the target airfield and mount an attack within 2-3 hours of landing... the landing in the middle of nowhere will confuse the enemy as to where they will strike and the quick movement to the target airfield will be a surprise and the fire power of the VDV force will easily defeat any ground security detachment the air field might have as it will mostly be defended from air attack this deep in enemy territory.

    Once the enemy airfield is captured then heavier forces can be flown in and landed and you have a powerful foothold deep in enemy territory.
    That's all true, but no wide-scale operations would be possible unless enemy air defense is completely suppressed; and its quite hard to guarantee that especially if they have something like the Buk.

    I don't know about the viability of large scale air-drops. It may still be relevant and possible. What I think is definitely possible though is VDV reinforcements via airdrop to remote regions where there are no airfields or the airfields are damaged or contested. It can just as easily be on Russian territory where infrastructure is often scarce; or in some neutral country or warzone where sophisticated AA weapons aren't employed.
    Likewise - smaller scale airdrops are definately still viable. Think special forces, but with 2-3 armoured vehicles to back them up.

    So no - the people who say that airborne tanks are useless are just being useless themselves.
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    Re: 2S25 Sprut-SD

    Post  TR1 on Wed Aug 21, 2013 1:12 am

    Exactly- its not about actual big airdrops behind enemy lines. Look @ Georgia- some of the first troops from far away were VDV airlifted into the region or taken by boat.
    By virtue of their light weight equipment the VDV is much easier to throw around the country than traditional units with their heavy ass tanks.
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    Re: 2S25 Sprut-SD

    Post  medo on Wed Aug 21, 2013 4:58 pm

    TR1 wrote:
    It seems it have new FCS and additional side armor. I would say this is Sprut-M variant.
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    Re: 2S25 Sprut-SD

    Post  GarryB on Thu Aug 22, 2013 4:33 am

    Apparently it is Photoshopped.

    The days of an enormous airlift invasion are likely over, but small and medium scale landings can have a surprise effect well beyond their actual direct impact.

    It means the enemy can't concentrate all its forces around central locations and they will have to maintain mobility because they will likely have no idea where strikes might come from... an attack on a port or airport would allow the use of that port or airport to bring in reserves and relief equipment and men.

    The west likes to claim the Soviets never used their airborne effectively but the invasion of Afghanistan is a very good example of how it can achieve a relatively bloodless invasion in a well planned and executed operation.

    The withdrawl was also very well planned and executed too... to the point that NATO is very keen to try to emulate how the Soviets managed to withdraw from Afghanistan without getting a bloody nose... previous British withdrawals from Afghanistan have cost them dearly.


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    Re: 2S25 Sprut-SD

    Post  TR1 on Tue Sep 24, 2013 4:28 am

    Very interesting Sprut service film:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ZBK_ugfmYTU#t=1400
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    Re: 2S25 Sprut-SD

    Post  TheArmenian on Tue Sep 24, 2013 10:12 pm

    TR1 wrote:Very interesting Sprut service film:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ZBK_ugfmYTU#t=1400
    My vote for the nice video you posted.
    Loved it when the Spruts were attacking together with the BMD-4s.

    Sorry my Russian is not very good. But I understood that the gun's effective range was in the 1500 m range. Is that all? even with the guided rounds?
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    Re: 2S25 Sprut-SD

    Post  TR1 on Tue Sep 24, 2013 10:37 pm

    That is just a standard "effective range" quote the missiles are much longer range, plus the laser range finder works up to 5km.

    Just noticed something- on the ballistic computer, you can see round selection- goes up to the BM48.

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