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George1 wrote:Source: Russian Navy intends to 2020 to buy the planes on the basis of the Be-200
Great news....maybe there's still a chance to revamp the A-40 Albatross project
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ASW Aircrafts for Russian Navy:
Cyberspec- Posts : 2904
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Great news....maybe there's still a chance to revamp the A-40 Albatross project
artjomh- Posts : 150
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Join date : 2015-07-17
GunshipDemocracy wrote:I hope this would not be the case - Tu-214 is ready to be produced and no teething problems. No imported parts... and you keep production lines letting Yak capitalize on export potential..
No, screw turbofans on Maritime Patrol Aircraft. We've been through this already, it's not a good solution.
Russia needs a new mid-sized turboprop engine to replace the Motor Sich Ivchenko one sometime in late 2020, and an airfraft to go with it. Until then, you don't need a new model MPA. Get the engine done, then then worry about new aircraft.
Sea Dragon upgrade is a decent stopgap until then.
GarryB- Posts : 38916
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Location : New Zealand
I wonder if there are any programmes working on unducted propfans in Russia?
The Il-114 is supposed to have 2,750hp turboprops based on the TV117 engine, but that is half the power of the engines on the Il-38.
The D-27 is Ukrainian and at 14K hp it is probably too powerful... even with just two engines per plane.
The NK-12 is also too powerful... perhaps a new turboprop variant of a new engine with a scaled power range that could eventually be used to power a range of aircraft from Il-112/114 through to the MTA and other aircraft... and perhaps even heavy UAVs.
The Il-114 is supposed to have 2,750hp turboprops based on the TV117 engine, but that is half the power of the engines on the Il-38.
The D-27 is Ukrainian and at 14K hp it is probably too powerful... even with just two engines per plane.
The NK-12 is also too powerful... perhaps a new turboprop variant of a new engine with a scaled power range that could eventually be used to power a range of aircraft from Il-112/114 through to the MTA and other aircraft... and perhaps even heavy UAVs.
Rmf- Posts : 462
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Join date : 2013-05-30
well there was project a-40 modification , a-42pe , using 2 turboprop engines from AN-70.artjomh wrote:GunshipDemocracy wrote:I hope this would not be the case - Tu-214 is ready to be produced and no teething problems. No imported parts... and you keep production lines letting Yak capitalize on export potential..
No, screw turbofans on Maritime Patrol Aircraft. We've been through this already, it's not a good solution.
Russia needs a new mid-sized turboprop engine to replace the Motor Sich Ivchenko one sometime in late 2020, and an airfraft to go with it. Until then, you don't need a new model MPA. Get the engine done, then then worry about new aircraft.
Sea Dragon upgrade is a decent stopgap until then.
Austin- Posts : 7617
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artjomh wrote:
No, screw turbofans on Maritime Patrol Aircraft. We've been through this already, it's not a good solution.
Why so this is what P-8A is all about and even India bought 8 P-8I and ordered 4 more few days back
PapaDragon- Posts : 13264
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''Russia Develops New 'Sub-Killer' Version of Be-200 Amphibious Aircraft''
http://sputniknews.com/russia/20150719/1024805011.html
flamming_python- Posts : 8988
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PapaDragon wrote:
''Russia Develops New 'Sub-Killer' Version of Be-200 Amphibious Aircraft''
http://sputniknews.com/russia/20150719/1024805011.html
Is this the A-40 or something different?
Wish they went with the A-42; those turboprops look efficient.
George1- Posts : 18303
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flamming_python wrote:PapaDragon wrote:
''Russia Develops New 'Sub-Killer' Version of Be-200 Amphibious Aircraft''
http://sputniknews.com/russia/20150719/1024805011.html
Is this the A-40 or something different?
Wish they went with the A-42; those turboprops look efficient.
No Beriev A-40 is different and bigger aircraft than Be-200
PapaDragon- Posts : 13264
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flamming_python wrote:PapaDragon wrote:
''Russia Develops New 'Sub-Killer' Version of Be-200 Amphibious Aircraft''
http://sputniknews.com/russia/20150719/1024805011.html
Is this the A-40 or something different?
Wish they went with the A-42; those turboprops look efficient.
Well, if they could install turboprops on A-40 what is stopping them from doing the same with Be-200?
artjomh- Posts : 150
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Austin wrote:artjomh wrote:
No, screw turbofans on Maritime Patrol Aircraft. We've been through this already, it's not a good solution.
Why so this is what P-8A is all about and even India bought 8 P-8I and ordered 4 more few days back
Turbofans have very poor efficiency at low speeds compared to turboprop engines, which means that they do not loiter over a small area as well as tubroprops.
While this is not an issue for most long range aircraft, MPA need to have an ability to stay for longer periods of time over a small area while searching for submarines.
Poseidon has long been critized for being inferior in this regard compared to Orion. P-8 can still loiter, of course, but it will have worse fuel efficiency compared to P-3 or Il-38, and hence smaller operational time.
flamming_python- Posts : 8988
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George1 wrote:flamming_python wrote:PapaDragon wrote:
''Russia Develops New 'Sub-Killer' Version of Be-200 Amphibious Aircraft''
http://sputniknews.com/russia/20150719/1024805011.html
Is this the A-40 or something different?
Wish they went with the A-42; those turboprops look efficient.
No Beriev A-40 is different and bigger aircraft than Be-200
But what's the point of developing an anti-sub version of the Be-200 when the A-40 is already pretty much an anti-sub version of the Be-200? (in addition to other functions)
If it's true that this is a seperate aircraft, then the article suggests that this project and the A-40 will be developed/ordered together - which makes even less sense.
Perhaps only if this is a turboprop version; like a slightly smaller A-42; designed to replace the Be-12s mainly; while the A-40 functions as the larger, longer-range version for patrol and so on; ultimately replacing the Il-38s and Il-20s.
artjomh- Posts : 150
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flamming_python wrote:But what's the point of developing an anti-sub version of the Be-200 when the A-40 is already pretty much an anti-sub version of the Be-200? (in addition to other functions)
If it's true that this is a seperate aircraft, then the article suggests that this project and the A-40 will be developed/ordered together - which makes even less sense.
I see that your Tao of Raspil is really weak, my young padawan.
George1- Posts : 18303
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flamming_python wrote:
But what's the point of developing an anti-sub version of the Be-200 when the A-40 is already pretty much an anti-sub version of the Be-200? (in addition to other functions)
If it's true that this is a seperate aircraft, then the article suggests that this project and the A-40 will be developed/ordered together - which makes even less sense.
Perhaps only if this is a turboprop version; like a slightly smaller A-42; designed to replace the Be-12s mainly; while the A-40 functions as the larger, longer-range version for patrol and so on; ultimately replacing the Il-38s and Il-20s.
Picture of the Beriev A-42PE Albatros aircraft
Picture of the Beriev Be-200ChS aircraft
For A-40/42 i know that only prototypes have been built. There were info for reviving the project some year before but i havent seen any development on this
Cyberspec- Posts : 2904
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Rmf wrote:well there was project a-40 modification , a-42pe , using 2 turboprop engines from AN-70.
It's been a while since I've seen this...thanks for posting
flamming_python wrote:But what's the point of developing an anti-sub version of the Be-200 when the A-40 is already pretty much an anti-sub version of the Be-200? (in addition to other functions)
If it's true that this is a seperate aircraft, then the article suggests that this project and the A-40 will be developed/ordered together - which makes even less sense.
Perhaps only if this is a turboprop version; like a slightly smaller A-42; designed to replace the Be-12s mainly; while the A-40 functions as the larger, longer-range version for patrol and so on; ultimately replacing the Il-38s and Il-20s.
I suppose another thing to consider is that the Be-200 is already in production so the ASW version could be fielded quicker while the A-40 would take longer to be ready for serial production
GarryB- Posts : 38916
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well there was project a-40 modification , a-42pe , using 2 turboprop engines from AN-70.
I liked that solution too, but with the D-27 engines now being Ukrainian... not really an option.
The Be-200 could get away with less powerful turboprops, but I don't know of any in development... which is not to say they don't exist...
But what's the point of developing an anti-sub version of the Be-200 when the A-40 is already pretty much an anti-sub version of the Be-200? (in addition to other functions)
Likely because the A-40 and A-42 are dead, while the Be-200 will enter service... they seem to have chosen the Be-200 over the A-40 family.
Austin- Posts : 7617
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Russian Navy Eyes Il-114 as Future MPA
Austin- Posts : 7617
Points : 8014
Join date : 2010-05-08
Location : India
Russian Navy Eyes Il-114 as Future MPA
Austin- Posts : 7617
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Join date : 2010-05-08
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Austin wrote:Russian Navy Eyes Il-114 as Future MPA
What is the payload capacity for IL-114 ?
The IL-38N has 9 Tons payload but looks like IL-114 would be lesser on range and payload.
GarryB- Posts : 38916
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An enlarged Il-114 would be ideal for the role of Il-38 replacement... a slight body extension with extra fuel and it would be perfect.
An updated version of Sea Dragon that is made smaller by separating some components into long range drones could make it even more effective and easier for smaller countries to afford and for a large country like Russia to afford in numbers.
An updated version of Sea Dragon that is made smaller by separating some components into long range drones could make it even more effective and easier for smaller countries to afford and for a large country like Russia to afford in numbers.
GarryB- Posts : 38916
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Payload is about 6 tons from memory, but they were talking about more powerful engines for hot and high potential like the An-32 (ie the Il-112V could replace the An-26 and the heavier more powerful Il-114 could replace the An-32 for hot and high)
the endurance of 14 hours is more important than actual payload... modern torpedos should be lighter but just as effective and the Il-114 should be smaller and lighter and cheaper than the Il-38N, so hopefully they might buy them and use them in larger numbers, or perhaps use them in conjunction with long range drones.
the endurance of 14 hours is more important than actual payload... modern torpedos should be lighter but just as effective and the Il-114 should be smaller and lighter and cheaper than the Il-38N, so hopefully they might buy them and use them in larger numbers, or perhaps use them in conjunction with long range drones.
George1- Posts : 18303
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Russian navy took delivery of another Il-38N anti-submarine aircraft
Russian Aviaton » Monday August 24, 2015 01:44 MSK
Ilyushin Company has implemented a state contract for overhaul and upgrade of five Il-38 anti-submarine aircraft operated by Russian navy to Il-38N version. A solemn handover ceremony dedicated to delivery of the fifth upgraded production Il-38N “Novella” aircraft to the Command of the naval aviation of Russian navy was held at the airfield of Gromov Flight Research Institute.
In the network of this upgrade the aircraft were fitted with the new “Novella-P-38” search-and-track system, which significantly expanded the vehicles combat capabilities and allowed the aircraft to carry out a wider range of missions. The aircraft was named after Chief Designer of “Novella-P-38” search-and-track system installed on the aircraft – Fedor Zolotukhin.
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The first upgraded Il-38 was handed over to Russian Ministry of Defense in July 2014.
“We have implemented the first state contract. The contract experienced difficulties, but the vehicles have been upgraded. This aircraft looks great and we hope that it will serve our homeland,” Ilyushin Company CEO Sergey Velmozhkin said.
In his own turn, UAC Deputy Director for Directorate of special aviation programs Valeri Vvedenski said: “Today we implemented the contract for delivery of the first five upgraded production Il-38 aircraft. And this fact sets an even more important goal for us – to help Russian Ministry of Defense put the aircraft into operation and to assure its continued airworthiness”.
The Command of the naval aviation of the Russian navy said that Il-38N aircraft are great and promising, and expressed hope that the cooperation will continue.
http://www.ruaviation.com/news/2015/8/24/3455/
Russian Aviaton » Monday August 24, 2015 01:44 MSK
Ilyushin Company has implemented a state contract for overhaul and upgrade of five Il-38 anti-submarine aircraft operated by Russian navy to Il-38N version. A solemn handover ceremony dedicated to delivery of the fifth upgraded production Il-38N “Novella” aircraft to the Command of the naval aviation of Russian navy was held at the airfield of Gromov Flight Research Institute.
In the network of this upgrade the aircraft were fitted with the new “Novella-P-38” search-and-track system, which significantly expanded the vehicles combat capabilities and allowed the aircraft to carry out a wider range of missions. The aircraft was named after Chief Designer of “Novella-P-38” search-and-track system installed on the aircraft – Fedor Zolotukhin.
Follow us on: Follow ruaviation on Twitter
The first upgraded Il-38 was handed over to Russian Ministry of Defense in July 2014.
“We have implemented the first state contract. The contract experienced difficulties, but the vehicles have been upgraded. This aircraft looks great and we hope that it will serve our homeland,” Ilyushin Company CEO Sergey Velmozhkin said.
In his own turn, UAC Deputy Director for Directorate of special aviation programs Valeri Vvedenski said: “Today we implemented the contract for delivery of the first five upgraded production Il-38 aircraft. And this fact sets an even more important goal for us – to help Russian Ministry of Defense put the aircraft into operation and to assure its continued airworthiness”.
The Command of the naval aviation of the Russian navy said that Il-38N aircraft are great and promising, and expressed hope that the cooperation will continue.
http://www.ruaviation.com/news/2015/8/24/3455/
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[quote="flamming_python"]
Well A40 Albatros lost its funding in 2011. and its considered as dead project. Meanwhile Be200 is currently in production so... i guess thats the reason, unification and lower production/maintenance costs.
George1 wrote:flamming_python wrote:PapaDragon wrote:
''Russia Develops New 'Sub-Killer' Version of Be-200 Amphibious Aircraft''
Is this the A-40 or something different?
Wish they went with the A-42; those turboprops look efficient.
No Beriev A-40 is different and bigger aircraft than Be-200
But what's the point of developing an anti-sub version of the Be-200 when the A-40 is already pretty much an anti-sub version of the Be-200? (in addition to other functions)
If it's true that this is a seperate aircraft, then the article suggests that this project and the A-40 will be developed/ordered together - which makes even less sense.
Perhaps only if this is a turboprop version; like a slightly smaller A-42; designed to replace the Be-12s mainly; while the A-40 functions as the larger, longer-range version for patrol and so on; ultimately replacing the Il-38s and Il-20s.
Well A40 Albatros lost its funding in 2011. and its considered as dead project. Meanwhile Be200 is currently in production so... i guess thats the reason, unification and lower production/maintenance costs.
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I wouldnt discart turbofans just like that from ASW role, simply coz of Russian size, i personally would use two ASW/Maritime patrol platforms one turbofan based on some liner and one smaller turboprop, they both have advantages and disadvantages. Naturally its wise to obtain more turboprop ones due to fuel efficiency and overall cost. Platforms like Be200 are fine for SAR, firefighting, naval medical evacuation, maybe some command platform but i dont think they are best idea for ASW unless they develop subtype with turboprops.
JohninMK- Posts : 14642
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Slightly OT but whilst discussing Russian amphibious aircraft this interesting article has appeared on similar function Japanese aircraft and their long history. http://warisboring.com/articles/tokyos-first-major-defense-export-will-be-a-seaplane/
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JohninMK wrote:Slightly OT but whilst discussing Russian amphibious aircraft this interesting article has appeared on similar function Japanese aircraft and their long history.
ShinMaywa US2 is extremly useful platform, probably best of its kind in the world, however price is quite significant.
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