Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues


    Buk SAM system General Thread

    Share
    avatar
    GarryB

    Posts : 16172
    Points : 16803
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Buk SAM system General Thread

    Post  GarryB on Mon Jan 11, 2016 4:44 am

    can BUK-M2-SAM intercept ATACMS ?

    According to the article BUK can intercept 3km/s targets and ATCMs travels at half that speed at 1.5km/s.... so I would say yes.


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order
    avatar
    coolieno99

    Posts : 139
    Points : 162
    Join date : 2010-08-25

    Re: Buk SAM system General Thread

    Post  coolieno99 on Wed Jan 13, 2016 2:23 am

    BUK-M3
    The missiles are stored in cannisters.

    avatar
    Viktor

    Posts : 5670
    Points : 6319
    Join date : 2009-08-25
    Age : 36
    Location : Croatia

    Re: Buk SAM system General Thread

    Post  Viktor on Mon Feb 29, 2016 7:54 pm

    During 2016 Russian Army PVO will receive 3 BUK-M2 regiments - same as in 2015

    The Russian military will have in 2016 three new division "Buckow"
    avatar
    medo

    Posts : 3169
    Points : 3259
    Join date : 2010-10-24
    Location : Slovenia

    Re: Buk SAM system General Thread

    Post  medo on Tue Mar 01, 2016 7:49 pm

    Viktor wrote:During 2016 Russian Army PVO will receive 3 BUK-M2 regiments - same as in 2015

    The Russian military will have in 2016 three new division "Buckow"

    3 battalions, not regiments. Anyway in 2 years they will receive 1 and a half brigade of Buk-M2, what is good.
    avatar
    Viktor

    Posts : 5670
    Points : 6319
    Join date : 2009-08-25
    Age : 36
    Location : Croatia

    Re: Buk SAM system General Thread

    Post  Viktor on Tue Mar 01, 2016 10:19 pm

    medo wrote:
    Viktor wrote:During 2016 Russian Army PVO will receive 3 BUK-M2 regiments - same as in 2015

    The Russian military will have in 2016 three new division "Buckow"

    3 battalions, not regiments. Anyway in 2 years they will receive 1 and a half brigade of Buk-M2, what is good.

    Divisions in Army PVO means regiments because there cn never be battery organizational unit in Army PVO
    avatar
    medo

    Posts : 3169
    Points : 3259
    Join date : 2010-10-24
    Location : Slovenia

    Re: Buk SAM system General Thread

    Post  medo on Tue Mar 01, 2016 10:49 pm

    Viktor wrote:
    medo wrote:
    Viktor wrote:During 2016 Russian Army PVO will receive 3 BUK-M2 regiments - same as in 2015

    The Russian military will have in 2016 three new division "Buckow"

    3 battalions, not regiments. Anyway in 2 years they will receive 1 and a half brigade of Buk-M2, what is good.

    Divisions in Army PVO means regiments because there cn never be battery organizational unit in Army PVO

    AFAIK army PVO also have batteries. 4 Tor TELARs form a battery. 6 Tunguska vehicles form a battery. 6 Strela-10 form a battery. I think they have batteries and divisions (battalions) as higher level. I'm not sure about bigger Buk or S-300 complexes, if there is division (6 launchers) the basic unit or it is divided in batteries also (3 launchers).
    avatar
    Viktor

    Posts : 5670
    Points : 6319
    Join date : 2009-08-25
    Age : 36
    Location : Croatia

    Re: Buk SAM system General Thread

    Post  Viktor on Tue Mar 01, 2016 11:01 pm

    medo wrote:
    Viktor wrote:
    medo wrote:
    Viktor wrote:During 2016 Russian Army PVO will receive 3 BUK-M2 regiments - same as in 2015

    The Russian military will have in 2016 three new division "Buckow"

    3 battalions, not regiments. Anyway in 2 years they will receive 1 and a half brigade of Buk-M2, what is good.

    Divisions in Army PVO means regiments because there cn never be battery organizational unit in Army PVO

    AFAIK army PVO also have batteries. 4 Tor TELARs form a battery. 6 Tunguska vehicles form a battery. 6 Strela-10 form a battery. I think they have batteries and divisions (battalions) as higher level. I'm not sure about bigger Buk or S-300 complexes, if there is division (6 launchers) the basic unit or it is divided in batteries also (3 launchers).

    All true. But because in Army PVO short range units serve for the protection of bigger ranged units while in teritorial they can serve indenpendently. This is because Army PVO units have bigger minimum kill zone than territorial PVO and that thy are exposed to much more than territorial units and the same reason why army PVO units have only regiment as a smallest operational unit ... Smile
    Thats why Army PVO units that counts as a protection only serves bigger ranged SAMs.

    Army PVO are therefore more rigid even in electronics and beceuse which is why more prone to countermeassures (but was hastly dealth with in latter on modifications and the unification with Baikal-1M)

    That came as a shock to west as a BUK came out from nowhere in vast quantities with cheap modernizations ... Smile ... S-300V4 in 9 fricking brigades. Even S-500 missiles will be based on S-300V4 missiles. Tor-M2 carries double the missiles double the guidance and shots in the move. We have Verba and brand new Ranzir ... Smile ... I could go on.
    avatar
    medo

    Posts : 3169
    Points : 3259
    Join date : 2010-10-24
    Location : Slovenia

    Re: Buk SAM system General Thread

    Post  medo on Tue Mar 01, 2016 11:21 pm

    Viktor wrote:
    medo wrote:
    Viktor wrote:
    medo wrote:
    Viktor wrote:During 2016 Russian Army PVO will receive 3 BUK-M2 regiments - same as in 2015

    The Russian military will have in 2016 three new division "Buckow"

    3 battalions, not regiments. Anyway in 2 years they will receive 1 and a half brigade of Buk-M2, what is good.

    Divisions in Army PVO means regiments because there cn never be battery organizational unit in Army PVO

    AFAIK army PVO also have batteries. 4 Tor TELARs form a battery. 6 Tunguska vehicles form a battery. 6 Strela-10 form a battery. I think they have batteries and divisions (battalions) as higher level. I'm not sure about bigger Buk or S-300 complexes, if there is division (6 launchers) the basic unit or it is divided in batteries also (3 launchers).

    All true. But because in Army PVO short range units serve for the protection of bigger ranged units while in teritorial they can serve indenpendently. This is because Army PVO units have bigger minimum kill zone than territorial PVO and that thy are exposed to much more than territorial units and the same reason why army PVO units have only regiment as a smallest operational unit ... Smile
    Thats why Army PVO units that counts as a protection only serves bigger ranged SAMs.

    Army PVO are therefore more rigid even in electronics and beceuse which is why more prone to countermeassures (but was hastly dealth with in latter on modifications and the unification with Baikal-1M)

    I'm not sure if you are not mixing VKO-PVO with Army PVO. I think VKO-PVO have regiments, where SHORAD battery like Pantsir is there exactly for protection of S-300/400 regiment and 2 regiments form a brigade. Army PVO is different, because it is mostly not in form of independent unit, but inside bigger ground forces unit, like air defense battery inside ground forces battalion or air defense division inside ground forces brigade and larger the unit, longer is the range of air defense. In battalion level air defense is mostly VSHORAD like MANPADs or Strela-10, in brigade you have longer range SHORADs and maybe even medium range Buk (depend on importance of brigade). In ground forces division you have medium range Buks and maybe even long range S-300V, while in army you have all levels of air defense and their commanding line went in the same way as with units, they are defending.
    avatar
    Viktor

    Posts : 5670
    Points : 6319
    Join date : 2009-08-25
    Age : 36
    Location : Croatia

    Re: Buk SAM system General Thread

    Post  Viktor on Wed Mar 02, 2016 8:07 am

    You can easily check over the internet but its other way around. Army PVO units exist only as a regimental units as smallest operational units. VKO-PVO has battery (division) as a smallest operational unit.
    avatar
    Viktor

    Posts : 5670
    Points : 6319
    Join date : 2009-08-25
    Age : 36
    Location : Croatia

    Re: Buk SAM system General Thread

    Post  Viktor on Wed Mar 02, 2016 9:55 pm

    Also new BUK-M3 regiment is scheduled for 2016 entry as S-350 is going on state acceptance tests. Only thing missing is Morfei but nevertheless they batter take their time and made it as was envisaged  Very Happy
    avatar
    magnumcromagnon

    Posts : 4496
    Points : 4675
    Join date : 2013-12-05
    Location : Pindos ave., Pindosville, Pindosylvania, Pindostan

    Re: Buk SAM system General Thread

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Thu Mar 03, 2016 6:16 am

    Viktor wrote:Also new BUK-M3 regiment is scheduled for 2016 entry as S-350 is going on state acceptance tests. Only thing missing is Morfei but nevertheless they batter take their time and made it as was envisaged  Very Happy

    I really hope Morfei comes with a high amount of missiles per launcher. Ideally speaking I hope Morfei has at least 50 missiles per launcher, because at such point blank range (5 km max range) you'll need to saturate PGM's with a abnormally high amount of missiles to make up for the short range (assuming some how the Pantsir's and Tor's are out of the picture), with many missiles to spare. Nothings scarier than being on the receiving end of a Grad salvo!
    avatar
    Viktor

    Posts : 5670
    Points : 6319
    Join date : 2009-08-25
    Age : 36
    Location : Croatia

    Re: Buk SAM system General Thread

    Post  Viktor on Sat Mar 12, 2016 1:46 am

    Does not specify how many but some new BUK-M2 just arrived in the South Military district thumbsup

    "Buk-M2" put in 106 Training Centre Air Defence Ground Forces
    avatar
    Morpheus Eberhardt

    Posts : 1945
    Points : 2066
    Join date : 2013-05-20

    Re: Buk SAM system General Thread

    Post  Morpheus Eberhardt on Sat Mar 12, 2016 2:05 am

    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    Viktor wrote:Also new BUK-M3 regiment is scheduled for 2016 entry as S-350 is going on state acceptance tests. Only thing missing is Morfei but nevertheless they batter take their time and made it as was envisaged  Very Happy

    I really hope Morfei comes with a high amount of missiles per launcher. Ideally speaking I hope Morfei has at least 50 missiles per launcher, because at such point blank range (5 km max range) you'll need to saturate PGM's with a abnormally high amount of missiles to make up for the short range (assuming some how the Pantsir's and Tor's are out of the picture), with many missiles to spare. Nothings scarier than being on the receiving end of a Grad salvo!

    Even if we take into account all aspects regarding the publication of military specs, the 5 km max range figure for Morfej may be the result of journalistic incompetence. I have seen the more credible figure of 50 km; so the 5 km figure may be just due to journalistic typographical incompetence.
    avatar
    GarryB

    Posts : 16172
    Points : 16803
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Buk SAM system General Thread

    Post  GarryB on Sun Mar 13, 2016 3:06 am

    As far as I am aware the Morfei is intended to be a small short range anti aircraft missile... akin to the SA-9/-11 Strela-10 and R-73 short range AAM. Not a MANPAD but a step up from one...

    In this context I would expect a range of 10-15km from a ground launched model and with an IIR seeker and datalink enabling lock on after launch 10-15km would be the range at which targets could be safely attacked while being detected and identified properly from a ground based launcher.

    I have no evidence to support this, but R-73 is described as being able to hit targets at up to 45km in ideal conditions (ie high altitude launch at high speed against a target with a distinct IR signature heading towards the missile launcher...

    50km range in a similar scenario would make sense to me especially with the lock on after launch datalink and improved seeker...

    For ground launch I think 5-15km range would be reasonable... especially with no booster.


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order
    avatar
    jhelb

    Posts : 428
    Points : 494
    Join date : 2015-04-04
    Location : Previously: Belarus Currently: A Small Island No One Cares About

    Re: Buk SAM system General Thread

    Post  jhelb on Sat Mar 19, 2016 9:22 pm

    Morpheus Eberhardt wrote:Even if we take into account all aspects regarding the publication of military specs, the 5 km max range figure for Morfej may be the result of journalistic incompetence. I have seen the more credible figure of 50 km; so the 5 km figure may be just due to journalistic typographical incompetence.

    Morpheus, somewhat off topic. Is the speed of an ICBM maximum when it is outside the Earth's atmosphere or is it maximum when it enters the Earth's atmosphere travelling towards its target? Thank You.

    Austin

    Posts : 6195
    Points : 6601
    Join date : 2010-05-08
    Location : India

    Re: Buk SAM system General Thread

    Post  Austin on Thu Mar 24, 2016 12:59 pm

    BUK-M3 Info , It claims it has ARH seeker , Can some one confirm if this is true ?

    http://www.arms-expo.ru/armament/samples/1238/66293/

    Each division, armed SAM "Buk-M3", has targeted 36 channels and is equipped with the latest models of missiles with active GSN.
    avatar
    Morpheus Eberhardt

    Posts : 1945
    Points : 2066
    Join date : 2013-05-20

    Re: Buk SAM system General Thread

    Post  Morpheus Eberhardt on Thu Mar 24, 2016 2:40 pm

    jhelb wrote:
    Morpheus, somewhat off topic. Is the speed of an ICBM maximum when it is outside the Earth's atmosphere or is it maximum when it enters the Earth's atmosphere travelling towards its target? Thank You.

    jhelb,

    Sorry for the late reply. I just saw your post.


    If there was no atmosphere, the speed of the reentry vehicle (RV) would have been maximum at the last point on its trajectory; so for a "surface burst", the speed would have been highest at the surface.

    However, the atmosphere generates drag. Ignoring the engineering issues related to the RV design, due to the interaction between the RV and the atmosphere, the speed at the last point on the trajectory can be lower or higher than the "reentry speed". The reentry speed can be "defined" in this context as the maximum speed during the descending portion of the trajectory before the atmospheric drag starts to "perceptibly" impact the RV's dynamics.

    In the case of a Minuteman III, for example, the speed of the RVs at the last point on their trajectory are much lower than their reentry speed; they are far below hypersonic.

    The Russian hypersonic RVs have hypersonic speeds after the reentry. This hypersonic speed can be higher or lower than the RVs' reentry speed.

    The technologies used to achieve these hypersonic speeds include one or more of the following. With all of these technologies, the speed after the reentry can be higher or lower than the reentry speed.

    1- Very low-drag RV design with exotic heat-resistance techniques.

    2- RVs with propulsion systems like scramjet engines and/or rocket engines.

    3- Variable-geometry RVs.
    avatar
    medo

    Posts : 3169
    Points : 3259
    Join date : 2010-10-24
    Location : Slovenia

    Re: Buk SAM system General Thread

    Post  medo on Thu Mar 24, 2016 6:00 pm

    Austin wrote:BUK-M3 Info , It claims it has ARH seeker , Can some one confirm if this is true ?

    http://www.arms-expo.ru/armament/samples/1238/66293/

    Each division, armed SAM "Buk-M3", has targeted 36 channels and is equipped with the latest models of missiles with active GSN.

    AFAIK Buk-M2 already have ARH with 9M317 missile.
    avatar
    jhelb

    Posts : 428
    Points : 494
    Join date : 2015-04-04
    Location : Previously: Belarus Currently: A Small Island No One Cares About

    Re: Buk SAM system General Thread

    Post  jhelb on Fri Mar 25, 2016 9:15 pm

    Morpheus Eberhardt wrote:
    The technologies used to achieve these hypersonic speeds include one or more of the following. With all of these technologies, the speed after the reentry can be higher or lower than the reentry speed.

    1- Very low-drag RV design with exotic heat-resistance techniques.

    2- RVs with propulsion systems like scramjet engines and/or rocket engines.

    3- Variable-geometry RVs.

    Great input as always Morpheus. Many Thanks.

    This is just going to open up into a long line of questions. .I don't want to bother you. Last one, though. I am venturing to guess you won't have the time to explain each of these technologies in details, so can you please share some links, from where I can read about these technologies? Thanks again.

    avatar
    Morpheus Eberhardt

    Posts : 1945
    Points : 2066
    Join date : 2013-05-20

    Re: Buk SAM system General Thread

    Post  Morpheus Eberhardt on Sun Mar 27, 2016 11:42 am

    jhelb wrote:
    Morpheus Eberhardt wrote:
    The technologies used to achieve these hypersonic speeds include one or more of the following. With all of these technologies, the speed after the reentry can be higher or lower than the reentry speed.

    1- Very low-drag RV design with exotic heat-resistance techniques.

    2- RVs with propulsion systems like scramjet engines and/or rocket engines.

    3- Variable-geometry RVs.

    Great input as always Morpheus. Many Thanks.

    This is just going to open up into a long line of questions. .I don't want to bother you. Last one, though. I am venturing to guess you won't have the time to explain each of these technologies in details, so can you please share some links, from where I can read about these technologies? Thanks again.

    Thanks, jhelb,

    I'll continue this topic in some future posts.
    avatar
    Morpheus Eberhardt

    Posts : 1945
    Points : 2066
    Join date : 2013-05-20

    Re: Buk SAM system General Thread

    Post  Morpheus Eberhardt on Thu Mar 31, 2016 12:49 pm

    Morpheus Eberhardt wrote:
    jhelb wrote:
    Morpheus Eberhardt wrote:
    The technologies used to achieve these hypersonic speeds include one or more of the following. With all of these technologies, the speed after the reentry can be higher or lower than the reentry speed.

    1- Very low-drag RV design with exotic heat-resistance techniques.

    2- RVs with propulsion systems like scramjet engines and/or rocket engines.

    3- Variable-geometry RVs.

    Great input as always Morpheus. Many Thanks.

    This is just going to open up into a long line of questions. .I don't want to bother you. Last one, though. I am venturing to guess you won't have the time to explain each of these technologies in details, so can you please share some links, from where I can read about these technologies? Thanks again.

    Thanks, jhelb,

    I'll continue this topic in some future posts.

    jhelb,

    I moved this topic to http://www.russiadefence.net/t2758p200-russia-us-and-other-developments-in-hypersonic-research#157844


    Last edited by Morpheus Eberhardt on Sun Apr 03, 2016 2:38 pm; edited 1 time in total
    avatar
    jhelb

    Posts : 428
    Points : 494
    Join date : 2015-04-04
    Location : Previously: Belarus Currently: A Small Island No One Cares About

    Re: Buk SAM system General Thread

    Post  jhelb on Sat Apr 02, 2016 1:36 pm


    Sure Morpheus, makes sense.
    avatar
    Viktor

    Posts : 5670
    Points : 6319
    Join date : 2009-08-25
    Age : 36
    Location : Croatia

    Re: Buk SAM system General Thread

    Post  Viktor on Sun Apr 03, 2016 2:02 pm

    It seems that BUK-M2 is entering service en masse Very Happy

    The anti-aircraft missile compound BBO Transbaikalia set SAM "Buk-M2"
    avatar
    Morpheus Eberhardt

    Posts : 1945
    Points : 2066
    Join date : 2013-05-20

    Re: Buk SAM system General Thread

    Post  Morpheus Eberhardt on Sun Apr 03, 2016 2:38 pm

    avatar
    medo

    Posts : 3169
    Points : 3259
    Join date : 2010-10-24
    Location : Slovenia

    Re: Buk SAM system General Thread

    Post  medo on Sun Apr 03, 2016 6:18 pm

    Viktor wrote:It seems that BUK-M2 is entering service en masse Very Happy

    The anti-aircraft missile compound BBO Transbaikalia set SAM "Buk-M2"

    True. I think they will produce them parallel with Buk-M3 until Buk-M3 reach needed production level.

    Sponsored content

    Re: Buk SAM system General Thread

    Post  Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Sun Jul 23, 2017 2:53 pm