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    Buk SAM system General Thread

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    Stealthflanker
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    Re: Buk SAM system General Thread

    Post  Stealthflanker on Fri May 22, 2015 4:10 pm

    xeno wrote:
    Austin wrote:does BUK-M3 has Active Radar Homing or Semi-Active Radar Homing ?

    Semi-Active Radar Homing of course.

    Really ?

    I though it would be Active Radar Homing.

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    Re: Buk SAM system General Thread

    Post  medo on Fri May 22, 2015 4:17 pm

    As far as know, Buk-M2 already use 9M317 missiles with active radar homing.

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    Re: Buk SAM system General Thread

    Post  Austin on Fri May 22, 2015 4:27 pm

    medo wrote:As far as know, Buk-M2 already use 9M317 missiles with active radar homing.

    No the M2 uses SARH not Active Radar Homing

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    Re: Buk SAM system General Thread

    Post  Akula971 on Fri May 22, 2015 5:02 pm

    Werewolf wrote:The future holds warfare of sticks and stones and hiding for years in catacombs while the rest gets ashed...

    Couldnt have said it better.

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    Re: Buk SAM system General Thread

    Post  Rmf on Fri May 22, 2015 10:23 pm

    the missiles are in containers not exposed to elements ,so that means more energetic fuel is used ,also trajectory is changed for long range shots and lighter electronics which increased range, new missiles are active and probably added some of s-300 methods of guidance- track with missile/ or track with missile and home radar combined. and remember old krug had 2 missiles ready, kub,buk,-3 , now has 6.
    only negative i can spot is the radar- its not aesa.

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    Re: Buk SAM system General Thread

    Post  George1 on Mon May 25, 2015 6:23 pm

    Russian army holds Buk-M2 air defense missile system firing exercises first time this year

    The firing exercises that involved over 300 air defense personnel marked the concluding stage of preparations by the Alkino air defense brigade of the Central Military District

    SAMARA, May 25. /TASS/. The Russian army held firing exercises with Buk-M2 medium-range surface-to-air missile systems for the first time this year, successfully thwarting an imaginary enemy’s cruise missile attack, the press office of Russia’s Central Military District said on Monday.

    "The combat crews of Buk-M2 air defense missile systems have prevented a simulated enemy tactical cruise missile attack on the positions of an integrated combined arms force at the Kapustin Yar firing range in the Astrakhan Region," the press office said.

    "These were the first firing exercises of Russian air defense forces using Buk-M2 missile systems," the press office of the Central Military District said.

    Surface-to air missiles were fired concurrently at two complex targets, the press office said.

    The firing exercises that involved over 300 air defense personnel marked the concluding stage of preparations by the Alkino air defense brigade of the Central Military District, the sole unit in the Russian Ground Forces operating Buk-M2 air defense missile systems.

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    Re: Buk SAM system General Thread

    Post  Book. on Mon May 25, 2015 11:01 pm

    Rmf wrote:the missiles are in containers not exposed to elements ,so that means more energetic fuel is used ,also trajectory is changed for long range shots and lighter electronics which increased range, new missiles are active and probably added  some of s-300 methods of guidance-  track with missile/ or track with missile and home radar combined. and remember old krug had 2 missiles ready, kub,buk,-3 , now  has 6.
    only negative i can spot is the radar- its not aesa.

    Nebo the Aesa. data link M3?

    it ok

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    Re: Buk SAM system General Thread

    Post  George1 on Mon Jun 15, 2015 3:37 pm

    Russia’s new ‘microwave cannon’ to disable enemy drones within 10 km radius

    The system consists of a powerful relativistic oscillator and a dish antenna, a control and monitoring system and a transmission system, mounted on the chassis of the Buk anti-aircraft missile system

    MOSCOW, June 15. /TASS/. Russia’s United Instrument Manufacturing Corporation (UIMC) has developed a "microwave cannon" capable of disabling enemy aircraft and drones within the range of 10 kilometres, a UIMC representative told TASS on Monday.

    "The mobile microwave radiation complex developed by our company - Moscow Radio Engineering Institute of the Russian Academy of Sciences (RAS), is designed for out-of-band suppression of electronic equipment of low-flying objects and attacking elements of precision guided weapons," said the source, adding that the novelty would be presented at the Army-2015 Forum.

    According to him, the system is capable of disabling the equipment of aircraft, drones and neutralising precision-guided weapons, ensuring a new level of defense. "In its technical characteristics the system has no known analogues in the world," said the UIMC representative.

    He added that the complex consists of a powerful relativistic oscillator and a dish antenna, a control and monitoring system and a transmission system, mounted on the chassis of the Buk anti-aircraft missile system.

    The new complex’s specifications are not disclosed, but according to a defence industry representative, its range exceeds 10 kilometers. "When installed on a special platform, the "microwave cannon" is capable of providing 360 degrees perimeter defense. The complex is also planned to be used to test the national radio-electronic systems of military equipment for resistance to high-power microwave radiation," the source said.


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    Re: Buk SAM system General Thread

    Post  mack8 on Wed Jun 17, 2015 11:24 pm

    The Buk family:

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    Re: Buk SAM system General Thread

    Post  George1 on Thu Jun 25, 2015 12:32 am

    The range of Buk-M3 reached 70 km
    Russian Aviaton » Wednesday June 24, 2015 18:24 MSK

    The range of Buk-M3 air defense system reached 70 km – 25 km more compared to its predecessor; the system even outmatched long-range S-300 air defense system by a number of parameters, TASS reports with reference to a source close to Russian Ministry of Defense.

    “Results of state testing confirm that the system is in line with the performance specification matching the parameters of S-300 and even outmatched it by some parameters,” the source said.
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    “First of all this refers to possibility of hitting a target: 0,9999 for Buk-M3, higher than the parameter of S-300”, - the source noted. He added: “the system’s range was increased by 25 km (compared to its predecessor) and reached 70 km”.

    In April deliveries of the test Buk-M3 systems to the armed forces were started. “Now prior to putting the Buk-M3 into service we have to carry out joint testing in summer at the same firing range. In case the testing is successful, the system will be put into service this autumn,” the source noted. According to him, Buk-M3 will be included in the State Defense Order for 2016 after signing a contract for delivery of production systems by December 2015. “Air Defense Forces of the Army will take delivery of the first Buk-M3 systems in winter 2016,” the source added.

    It was reported earlier that the new representative of Buk Family would be put into service in 2015. It is expected that the new system would continue the product line of Buk air defense systems. The previous version – Buk-M2 is one of the most efficient systems in its class. Its development was completed in 1988, however its mass production was started 15 years later.

    According to the source, the Ministry of Defense has not made a decision on development of the next version – Buk-M4. “So far the enterprise did not receive any performance specifications related to the system from the ministry, - the source said. – So there is no contract and no funding”.


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    Re: Buk SAM system General Thread

    Post  Viktor on Sun Aug 02, 2015 4:36 pm

    Just to sum it all ...

    TELAR and TEL of the BUK-M3




    Looking at it the BUK-M3, Pancir-S1 and Pancir-SM, TOR-M2, S-350, S-400 (with the introduction 9M96), Sosna, Morfei etc etc Russia is adding number of guidance channels and missiles

    considerably.

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    Re: Buk SAM system General Thread

    Post  franco on Sun Aug 02, 2015 5:13 pm

    Viktor wrote:Just to sum it all ...

    TELAR and TEL of the BUK-M3




    Looking at it the BUK-M3, Pancir-S1 and Pancir-SM, TOR-M2, S-350, S-400 (with the introduction 9M96), Sosna, Morfei etc etc Russia is adding number of guidance channels and missiles

    considerably.

    First picture I have seen of the new TEL, good stuff.

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    Re: Buk SAM system General Thread

    Post  medo on Mon Aug 03, 2015 9:03 am

    franco wrote:
    Viktor wrote:Just to sum it all ...

    TELAR and TEL of the BUK-M3




    Looking at it the BUK-M3, Pancir-S1 and Pancir-SM, TOR-M2, S-350, S-400 (with the introduction 9M96), Sosna, Morfei etc etc Russia is adding number of guidance channels and missiles

    considerably.

    First picture I have seen of the new TEL, good stuff.

    True, redesigned Buk-M2 TELAR to accommodate new missiles in containers.

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    Re: Buk SAM system General Thread

    Post  George1 on Thu Aug 13, 2015 1:08 am

    Russia develops new antiaircraft system to replace Buk air defense missile complex


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    Re: Buk SAM system General Thread

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Thu Aug 13, 2015 8:34 pm

    George1 wrote:Russia develops new antiaircraft system to replace Buk air defense missile complex


    So Vitiaz is no good anymore? affraid Or Russia has too much money and needs more systems to make logistics life even more funny

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    Re: Buk SAM system General Thread

    Post  PapaDragon on Thu Aug 13, 2015 9:05 pm

    GunshipDemocracy wrote:
    George1 wrote:Russia develops new antiaircraft system to replace Buk air defense missile complex


    So Vitiaz is no good anymore? affraid  Or Russia has too much money and needs more systems to make logistics life even more funny

    More likely some journalist hack dropped the ball again...

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    Re: Buk SAM system General Thread

    Post  GarryB on Fri Aug 14, 2015 11:48 am

    S-350 is an Air Force system... what they might be talking about is the S-350 being adapted to be used in the Army as well as a replacement for the medium range BUK.


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    Re: Buk SAM system General Thread

    Post  Viktor on Sat Aug 15, 2015 10:30 am

    GunshipDemocracy wrote:So Vitiaz is no good anymore? affraid  Or Russia has too much money and needs more systems to make logistics life even more funny

    They are talking about BUK-M3 which in regard to a completely new missile can be called (and obviously is) a new air defense system.

    Russia’s New Buk-M3 ‘Kill-All’ Missile to Enter Service in 2016

    The Buk-M3 medium-range surface-to-air missile system, a modernized version of the Buk-M2 system, features advanced electronic components and a deadly new missile and could be regarded as a completely new system.

    and the intereting part ...

    The Buk-M3 system boasts a new digital computer, high-speed data exchange system and a telethermal imaging target designator instead of the teleoptical trackers used in previous models.
    The Buk-3M’s target-destruction probability has reached 0.9999 and its maximum destruction range has been increased by 25 kilometers and now stands at 70 kilometers.

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    Re: Buk SAM system General Thread

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Sat Aug 15, 2015 11:16 am

    Viktor wrote:
    GunshipDemocracy wrote:So Vitiaz is no good anymore? affraid  Or Russia has too much money and needs more systems to make logistics life even more funny

    They are talking about BUK-M3 which in regard to a completely new missile can be called (and obviously is) a new air defense system.


    Thank you for links and info but somehow I understood that new system is to be replacing whole Buk family i.e. - Bum - M3 as well. BTW why Buk and S-350 cannot be unified? OK different branches but still both can do similar job or I am wrong?

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    Re: Buk SAM system General Thread

    Post  JohninMK on Sat Aug 15, 2015 11:27 am

    GunshipDemocracy wrote:
    Viktor wrote:
    GunshipDemocracy wrote:So Vitiaz is no good anymore? affraid  Or Russia has too much money and needs more systems to make logistics life even more funny

    They are talking about BUK-M3 which in regard to a completely new missile can be called (and obviously is) a new air defense system.


    Thank you for links and info but somehow I understood that new system is to be replacing whole Buk family i.e. - Bum - M3 as well. BTW why Buk and S-350 cannot be unified? OK different branches but still both can do similar job or I am wrong?
    From the other end of Europe, it looks as if operationally it could be useful having two different systems since it complicates the task of overcoming them by the enemy. Also two R&D teams competing is good, whilst there may not be much economies of scale in manufacturing and there would not be much saving in training due to them being in two the branches.

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    Re: Buk SAM system General Thread

    Post  Viktor on Sat Aug 15, 2015 3:46 pm

    GunshipDemocracy wrote:Thank you for links and info but somehow I understood that new system is to be replacing whole Buk family i.e. - Bum - M3 as well. BTW why Buk and S-350 cannot be unified? OK different branches but still both can do similar job or I am wrong?

    Up to only recently (with the emergance of Baikal-1M command post) it was not possible to unite PVO and A-PVO under a single command chain on the operational level.

    Now situation is rapidly changing and all new command post are able to support whatever SAM given respect to its hierarchy. Still Army pVO will have different set of requirements

    than territorial PVO as those systems needs to be highly mobile, robust and have more capability to resist strong ECM and SEAD/DEAD attacks.

    Because of that we can see unification (single missile for BUK and S-350 and unified command posts) but that can go only that far. Army PVO will always have a different set of demands.


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    Re: Buk SAM system General Thread

    Post  flamming_python on Sat Aug 15, 2015 7:21 pm

    The Buk-M3 is more capable than the S-350. The S-350 is really an economic medium-range SAM for the Air Force, with similar ranges to the original S-300P system (but more missiles, modern electronics, better radar, etc...).

    The Buk-M3 on the other hand is the best medium-range SAM money can buy. Compared to the S-350 it has:

    • Faster set-up/tear-down times. I wouldn't be surprised if these things can even fire on the move, honestly.
    • Faster reaction times to incoming threats; the Buk TEL vehicles can simultaneously have part of their missiles in vertical mode and the other half pointing towards the probable direction of a threat.
    • Smaller, all-terrain (in its more prevalent tracked form), more nimbler vehicles; can hide more easily and won't be detected as easily on the move.
    • Greater variety of target tracking methods and amount of engagement channels; it's more jam-proof and can target more enemy aircraft/missiles at once (greater defence against swarm attacks). The Buk-M3 tracks by both Radar and Thermal means, with a backup optical system; while the S-350 is Radar-only. The Buk-M3 has 36 engagement channels, the S-350 has 16 - albeit this might just be the figure for the S-350E; the domestic S-350 could perhaps have as many as 40 channels.
    • Greater survivability of the battery as a result of greater autonomy of individual battery vehicles; a Buk battery has a mixture of TELs and TELARs whereas S-350 batteries only have TELs, the Buk TELAR's can potentially operate indepedently from the rest of the battery, albeit considerably worse.
    • A measure of ABM capability; the Buk-M3 is capable of engaging targets at Mach 9 over its whole range and altitude envelope; the S-350 might achieve half or 2/3rds of that at most. This gives the Buk-M3 the ability to engage future hypersonic missiles and many types of SRBMs.


    The S-350, compared to the Buk-M3, only has advantages over it in 2 areas (not counting cost):

    • Greater range of its main missile; the 9M96 series (+120km vs the Buk-M3's 70km).
    • Compatibility with the 9M100 short-range IR-guided missile; 4 of which can fit into a standard container - enabling the S-350 TEL to be armed with considerably more missiles ready to launch than the Buk-M3 TEL can be armed with; at the cost of these extra missiles all being very short-range. They will however allow the S-350 to handle point-defence economically, not wasting the more expensive active-radar missiles, which is something the Buk-M3 can't offer.


    I also don't know where some of you fellas have got the idea from that the S-350 is replacing the Buk. You guys must know something us mere mortals don't.
    Last time I checked, the S-350 is entering service with the AF (or the Aerospace Defence Forces, or whatever it is now). There are some Buks in the AF, along with older S-300Ps - those are the systems the S-350 will replace.
    However the Buks in the Army aren't being replaced by the S-350 as the Army isn't acquiring these systems.

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    Re: Buk SAM system General Thread

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Sun Aug 16, 2015 10:15 am

    @flaming and @Viktor

    Thanks again so requirements for Army and ASF are so different that one set of missiles cannot do?


    @JohninMK
    Yup this woudl make sense but I am afraid is not the reason why Smile

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    Re: Buk SAM system General Thread

    Post  GarryB on Sun Aug 16, 2015 12:30 pm

    Would add that S-350 is likely cheaper... the missiles are smaller and are weight customised, so when targets are detected in close the smaller missile can be used, while targets detected further out can be engaged with the larger missiles.

    the S-350 will probably have more ready to fire missiles on each TEL, but like S-300P it wont have the mobility of the tracked army systems or response times because the airforce systems are optimised as shelterised systems for use on large airfields and other fixed locations, while the army systems are intended to defend forces moving cross country and either firing on the move or from a short halt.

    The Navy will likely introduce the S-350, but will also have the Shtil-1 for export and some domestic gap filler vessels (ie Russian talwars might have Shtil (BUK) or S-350).

    All three branches will be ordering and having in service enormous numbers of SAM missiles so the economies of large production batches applies even if they all have different missiles.


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    Re: Buk SAM system General Thread

    Post  TheArmenian on Sun Aug 16, 2015 1:46 pm

    GarryB wrote:Would add that S-350 is likely cheaper... the missiles are smaller and are weight customised, so when targets are detected in close the smaller missile can be used, while targets detected further out can be engaged with the larger missiles.

    the S-350 will probably have more ready to fire missiles on each TEL, but like S-300P it wont have the mobility of the tracked army systems or response times because the airforce systems are optimised as shelterised systems for use on large airfields and other fixed locations, while the army systems are intended to defend forces moving cross country and either firing on the move or from a short halt.

    The Navy will likely introduce the S-350, but will also have the Shtil-1 for export and some domestic gap filler vessels (ie Russian talwars might have Shtil (BUK) or S-350).

    All three branches will be ordering and having in service enormous numbers of SAM missiles so the economies of large production batches applies even if they all have different missiles.

    Garry,
    The S350 is actually more expensive because of the active homing. Buk is command guided.

    Also, S350 is already in use in the navy on the Steregushy class ships while Buk M3 (as Shtil-1) is on the Grigorovich frigate.

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