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    NATO - Russia relations:

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    GarryB
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    Re: NATO - Russia relations:

    Post  GarryB on Sat Feb 07, 2015 5:17 am

    "Our goal has been to involve Russia, not to isolate it," the NATO stressed, adding that Russia "isolated itself by own actions and own choices."

    What an ass... all the bad things we did to you were your fault... we want to talk to you and cooperate and keep you involved... that is why WE broke of all cooperation with you and started economic sanctions that would be considered an act of war if Russia did it to the west....

    Why should Russia consider normal relations with such two faced pricks?


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    Re: NATO - Russia relations:

    Post  George1 on Thu Mar 05, 2015 10:51 am

    Moscow Invites All NATO Members to Russian Security Conference in April

    Russian Deputy Defense Minister Anatoly Antonov stated that Russian Defense Ministry has invited all NATO countries to an April conference on security in Moscow and some have accepted the invitation.

    MOSCOW (Sputnik) – The Russian Defense Ministry has invited all NATO countries to an April conference on security in Moscow and some have accepted the invitation, Russian Deputy Defense Minister Anatoly Antonov said Thursday.

    “We invited all NATO countries to our [security] conference, including the leaders of the Alliance. Now it’s all in the hands and heads of our colleagues to decide if they are ready for discussion or if they prefer a situation when sword-playing slogans are sent from their capitals in our address,” Antonov told journalists.

    Antonov added that Ukraine was not invited to the international conference.

    “At this stage of the brutal information antagonism in regard to the crisis in southeastern Ukraine, we decided not to inflame the situation at the conference and at this stage made the decision not to invite our Ukrainian colleagues to the event,” Antonov added.

    Western countries are creating a new dividing line and have chosen Russia as its target instead of fighting terrorism, Anatoly Antonov said.

    “Instead of joining efforts in the fight against evil, the most important of which is terrorism, western countries are creating a new dividing line…and today it has chosen Russia as its target,” Antonov told journalists.

    The system of international security has been disrupted by the actions of the United States and its allies and it will be difficult to restore without mutual trust, Russian Deputy Defense Minister added.

    “Without trust it will be difficult to repair the international system of security that has been seriously damaged by the actions of the United States and its allies on the international arena,” Antonov told journalists.

    Antonov said he could not recall throughout his entire military career when relations between the United States and Russia were more difficult than at the present.

    “Throughout my entire military-diplomatic career, throughout my entire diplomatic activities, I have never seen Russian-American relations so difficult,” Antonov told journalists.

    Read more: http://sputniknews.com/russia/20150305/1019085625.html#ixzz3TVGDUY5l
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    Re: NATO - Russia relations:

    Post  max steel on Fri May 15, 2015 11:40 pm

    Nato is expelling dozens of suspected Russian spies over fears the Kremlin has infiltrated the military organisation that is drawing up plans to protect Europe from Putin affraid

    ▬Nato is kicking out up to 45 suspected Russian spies from its headquarters
    ▬Follows decision to limit size of non-Nato member states' delegations to 30
    ▬Russia only country affected. Sources: Aim to curb intelligence-gathering
    ▬Comes after military chiefs warned UK & Russia had entered new Cold War





    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3076455/Dozens-Russian-spies-booted-Nato-headquarters-western-military-alliance-seeks-crackdown-Moscow-s-intelligence-gathering.html
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    Re: NATO - Russia relations:

    Post  collegeboy16 on Sat May 16, 2015 2:49 am

    if i were calling the shots i wouldnt expel those suspected spies, ill give them false info. to work with. this sounds like a hissy fit.
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    Re: NATO - Russia relations:

    Post  Airbornewolf on Sat May 16, 2015 6:16 am

    max steel wrote:Nato is expelling dozens of suspected Russian spies over fears the Kremlin has infiltrated the military organisation that is drawing up plans to protect Europe from Putin  affraid

    ▬Nato is kicking out up to 45 suspected Russian spies from its headquarters
    ▬Follows decision to limit size of non-Nato member states' delegations to 30
    ▬Russia only country affected. Sources: Aim to curb intelligence-gathering
    ▬Comes after military chiefs warned UK & Russia had entered new Cold War





    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3076455/Dozens-Russian-spies-booted-Nato-headquarters-western-military-alliance-seeks-crackdown-Moscow-s-intelligence-gathering.html

    also within the NATO structure millitary intelligence agency's actively snooping out "russia symphatisers" within ground force's ranks. this "snooping" is seriously undermining morale in the German and Dutch Millitary as far i heard. they even go trough people's social media to find any "evidence" of "influence of Russian propaganda".

    NATO troops require this "certification of loyalty" for lack of better translation to english. i means on an regular basis the millitary intelligence screens troops for loyalty. if you got financial depts making you susceptible to bribes. your social media activity, your political views, etcetera.

    if you do not clear this certification your voluntary contract is immidiatly terminated. i understand being some fundamentalist gets you kicked out. but also guys that just ask legitimate questions get immediately kicked out the door by revoking their "loyalty status". and most of them are really professional guys that know what they are doing in their work. guys of the calibre of real men that would stand next to you in the middle of an firefight. just fired for raising their concerns about policy.
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    NATO - Russia relations

    Post  AirCargo on Tue Jun 02, 2015 5:46 am

    Baltics Mull Joint Air Defense Against Russia

    http://www.defensenews.com/story/defense/2015/05/28/baltics-mull-joint-air-defense-system-against-russia/28077399/
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    NATO - Russia relations

    Post  AirCargo on Tue Jun 02, 2015 6:09 am

    Czech Military Eyes Israeli 3D Radars

    http://www.defensenews.com/story/defense/international/europe/2015/06/01/czech-military-eyes-elta-3d-radars/28312957/
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    Re: NATO - Russia relations:

    Post  max steel on Sun Jun 14, 2015 11:26 am

    Russian Military Aircraft Flew Over NATO Warships in Baltic Sea




    The incident involving four NATO warships, including US destroyer Jason Dunham, occurred on Thursday. One British, one French and one German vessel were also part of the group.A Russian military surveillance aircraft flew close to NATO warships in the Baltic Sea, including flying above the deck of one of the vessels at an altitude of 500 feet .

    http://sputniknews.com/military/20150614/1023337417.html#ixzz3d1jSxRwB
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    Re: NATO - Russia relations:

    Post  George1 on Thu Aug 27, 2015 12:48 am

    West Needs to Re-Establish NATO-Russia Council to 'Avoid War in Europe'


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    Re: NATO - Russia relations:

    Post  OminousSpudd on Thu Aug 27, 2015 1:11 am

    George1 wrote:West Needs to Re-Establish NATO-Russia Council to 'Avoid War in Europe'

    Or, y'know, maybe disband the apparatus that serves only to extend US interests abroad entirely. dunno
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    Re: NATO - Russia relations:

    Post  Project Canada on Thu Sep 03, 2015 8:09 pm

    Question, are you going to get arrested/ under surveillance here in Canada for spreading anti-NATO propaganda? I'm just an immigrant Cool
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    Re: NATO - Russia relations:

    Post  max steel on Fri Sep 25, 2015 11:36 am

    US venting its Ukraine fiasco now Syria too on European soil :  Laughing

    U.S. Will Station New Nuclear Weapons in Germany Against Russia


    This is an infringement of Articles 1 and 2 of the Treaty on Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons,” which is the treaty that provides non-nuclear states the assurance that the existing nuclear powers will not try to use their nuclear status so as to take over the world.


    Russia retaliation :  yes sir

    Russia Threatens To Deploy Ballistic Missiles In Retaliation For US Nuclear Escalation

    Some random guy's comment :

    The currently deployed US Army, and also Poland itself already operate the HIMARS rocket artillery system within Poland, and it can fire rapid-reload salvos of the precision-guided ATACMS ballistic missile.

    HIMARS

    MGM-140 ATACMS

    The distance by road from Gdansk Poland to Kaliningrad is only 167 km, and that's not even a straight line. The straight-line distance is more like ~120 km.

    The range of the rapid-firing HIMARS ATACMS missile is at least 300 km so it can already easily nail any target in Kaliningrad, including the Iskander launchers geolocated by mini UAVs, airborne standoff recon, and satellites.

    The dopey Russians; firstly do not know they are total dopes, and pwned; and secondly, they never seem to know when they should keep their bloody trap shut. They can't help themselves but gloat like morons and look like idiots, in their vein attempt to be more than they really are. Now that they've openly made such a stupid threat against a NATO state, and prance about like utter morons, it just means a C-17A full of ATAMCS will be arriving shortly, and deployed all over NE Poland - for about the next 30 years or so.

    To reinforce those that are already there.



    Real clever bastards these Russians are. Your thoughts ?
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    Re: NATO - Russia relations:

    Post  Book. on Sat Sep 26, 2015 1:11 am

    max steel wrote:Russia retaliation :  yes sir

    Russia Threatens To Deploy Ballistic Missiles In Retaliation For US Nuclear Escalation

    Some random guy's comment :

    The currently deployed US Army, and also Poland itself already operate the HIMARS rocket artillery system within Poland, and it can fire rapid-reload salvos of the precision-guided ATACMS ballistic missile.

    HIMARS

    MGM-140 ATACMS

    The distance by road from Gdansk Poland to Kaliningrad is only 167 km, and that's not even a straight line. The straight-line distance is more like ~120 km.

    The range of the rapid-firing HIMARS ATACMS missile is at least 300 km so it can already easily nail any target in Kaliningrad, including the Iskander launchers geolocated by mini UAVs, airborne standoff recon, and satellites.

    The dopey Russians; firstly do not know they are total dopes, and pwned; and secondly, they never seem to know when they should keep their bloody trap shut. They can't help themselves but gloat like morons and look like idiots, in their vein attempt to be more than they really are. Now that they've openly made such a stupid threat against a NATO state, and prance about like utter morons, it just means a C-17A full of ATAMCS will be arriving shortly, and deployed all over NE Poland - for about the next 30 years or so.

    To reinforce those that are already there.

    Very funny guy himar atcm no differ. Ru lot smerch + cruise missle + iskander!

    The funny? Iskandar THE monky 300km? No 2000+ km!

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    Re: NATO - Russia relations:

    Post  max steel on Sat Sep 26, 2015 1:18 am

    What are you trying to say ? Can atacms be shot down or not by russia in kaliningrad and what will they be using to shoot it down ? Is himar atacms a cruise missile ?
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    Re: NATO - Russia relations:

    Post  AlfaT8 on Sat Sep 26, 2015 5:20 am

    max steel wrote:What are you trying to say ? Can atacms be shot down or not by russia in kaliningrad and what will they be using to shoot it down ? Is himar atacms a cruise missile ?
    No, HIMAR is a mobile rocket launcher (similar to iskander) with 6 GPS/INS guided ballistic missiles (ATACMS), shouldn't be to hard to shot down.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HIMARS
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MGM-140_ATACMS
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    Re: NATO - Russia relations:

    Post  max steel on Sat Sep 26, 2015 9:50 am

    What we can use to shoot them down?
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    Re: NATO - Russia relations:

    Post  GarryB on Sat Sep 26, 2015 2:14 pm

    ATCMS is just a guided ballistic missile... most Russian short range systems can easily shoot them down... S-350, S-300, S-400, TOR, Pantsir-S1, BUK, would all destroy them easily.


    the funny thing is that the Iskanders that will be located deep in Europe aimed at Poland will likely now be nukes and the amazing protection NATO is bringing Poland is nuclear death... welcome back to being the nuclear desert buffer state between the US and Russia that you were when you were part of the warsaw pact... stupid pion.


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    Why is NATO so stuborn?

    Post  vtech85 on Mon Oct 12, 2015 6:47 pm

    So.. The cold war day's are over. Everyone is concentrating on terrorists, they are the real problem these days, not Russia. Surprisingly even Russia is on on this whole stopping terrorists stuff one way or another. Why is NATO flat out refusing to work alongside Russia, China, Iran? why can't they swallow their pride and simply put their differences behind for a moment and unite to defeat terrorism? isn't that the logical thing to do? But instead we stand on the edge of a 3rd wold war because NATO is to damn stubborn to give Russia a chance where everyone else has failed. Russia isn't a threat to us so why are we treating them like they are? I'm British and if I had to choose between europe or Russia I would without a doubt stand side by side with Russia!

    so folks, if a 3rd world war does happen, we can all thank our gov's for being such childish stubborn idiots, not Russia who will simply be defending them self.
    Personally I think the root of this is Obama.
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    Re: NATO - Russia relations:

    Post  max steel on Mon Oct 12, 2015 7:30 pm

    NATO has grown stubborn because they haven't faced a conventional and capable military power for quite a while. The Chinese alliance has also helped give Putin the power to leave America and her NATO allies flat-footed and strategically outmaneuvered at the other end of the continent.

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    Re: NATO - Russia relations:

    Post  Rodinazombie on Mon Oct 12, 2015 8:00 pm

    Nato is so stubborn, because it refuses to admit that its outlived its purpose. When originally formed it had a mandate to defend western europe and north america against the threat of the soviet union. Since that threat has evaporated, it needs enemies to justify its existence, otherwise people are going to start asking why our eurocents and pennies are being sunk into this useless money pit that is defending us from a non existent threat.

    Thats why nato seeks to provoke russia at any opportunity, look at the latest event with russian planes on the turkish border. The incident was cleared up between russian and turkish officials without any problems, yet nato continues to bleat about it using threatening language.

    Unfortunately, people are easily taken in by this hysterical nonsense from nato, and so they will be around for the considerable future.
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    Re: NATO - Russia relations:

    Post  max steel on Wed Oct 28, 2015 8:21 pm

    NATO is considering an expansion of its military presence on member-country borders with Russia

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    Re: NATO - Russia relations:

    Post  max steel on Sun Nov 22, 2015 9:54 pm

    RAF Lossiemouth fighter jets scrambled over Russian bomber Tu-160


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    Re: NATO - Russia relations:

    Post  mrtravisgood on Wed Nov 25, 2015 10:41 pm

    Rodinazombie wrote:
    flamming_python wrote:
    Walther von Oldenburg wrote:Better learn some lessions.

    In WW1 USA destroyed the German Empire and the Russian Empire (by backing Bolsheviks) and earned an immense amount of money on exports while all other countries were lossers. During WW2 it provoked Japanese attack, defeated Japan and the Third Reich and lost the least out of all major players. Then after WW2 it dethroned the British Empire as the world's most powerful country and took control of the world's financial system without even having to fire a single shot.

    Shouldn't we (Germans, Europeans) learn from them and imitate them? There is a lot to learn in the art of geopolitics and Americans are masters of it.

    They were masters of it.

    These days America is led by a bunch of spoilt, petulant, hubrid, short-sighted, amateur little imperialists who between them all can't work out how what foreign policy & diplomacy is for or how to use it.

    Couldnt have said it better myself.


    It may be obvious to say it here, but if you want to look for someone to model yourself on, you dont need to look further than putin. In the art of diplomacy he is second to none, despite his ruthless reputation. He has made an art out of being nice to his enemies whilst they are screaming obscenities about him. The chinese too, they are happy to just sit back and let the money flow, they have profited from peace and not sticking their nose in everyone elses business. Though i imagine they will look to involve themselves more in the coming years.





    I agree.  I could not have said that better myself.  China will be doing more in the not only the coming years but in the coming months.  Remember those man made islands that they say belong to them.  Well each day that passes the ruffle their feathers more and more.  So it will only be time that will dictate.  But if NO ONE does anything about Turkey shooting down a Russian plan and then the rescue choppers, than I believe that China will see that as an opportunity as well as North Korea.


    Last edited by mrtravisgood on Wed Nov 25, 2015 10:43 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Mispelled some words. :()
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    Re: NATO - Russia relations:

    Post  max steel on Fri Nov 27, 2015 9:34 pm

    Russia Prepared for Conventional Arms Control Consultations With NATO No

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    War In Europe: Why The Army Is Worried

    Post  nemrod on Mon Dec 14, 2015 3:45 pm

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/lorenthompson/2015/12/11/war-in-europe-why-the-army-is-worried/




    War In Europe: Why The Army Is Worried

    Ever since Russia invaded Ukraine in 2014 and seized control of Crimea, Pentagon planners have been trying to figure out how they could cope with further land grabs by Moscow.  Their greatest concern is that Russia will move on the three small Baltic states of Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania — the only former provinces of the Soviet Union that have joined the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) and that other alliance members are therefore obligated to defend.  Internal Pentagon estimates suggest Russia’s military could occupy the Baltic states in 2-3 days — well before NATO could organize a coherent response.

    More generally, the alliance’s entire eastern flank is vulnerable to invasion given the proximity of Russian forces and the absence of natural barriers to a quick advance (see map).  In the aftermath of the Ukraine invasion, Western military planners no longer think they can predict how Russian leader Vladimir Putin might react to perceived provocations or opportunities.  So the possibility of war in Europe is back on the table as a priority concern, and that means land warfare in which the U.S. Army would have to carry most of the burden.

    After talking to a number of senior military officials over the past year, the picture I get is that the U.S. Army isn’t postured to stop a quick Russian thrust westward.  In certain circumstances, Putin could defeat NATO forces and upset the fragile European political order put in place after the collapse of the Soviet Union.  That outcome would depend on the conditions in which such a campaign unfolds, and there are dozens of factors potentially influencing the course of events.  But here are the issues that come up most frequently in discussions with the Army.

    Russia would have huge geographical advantages in a European war due to its proximity, depth, and ability to control key chokepoints. (Retrieved from Wikimedia)
    Russia would have huge geographical advantages in a European war due to its proximity, depth, and ability to control key chokepoints. (Retrieved from Wikimedia)


    Preparation for high-end threats has been neglected.  Fifteen years of fighting counter-insurgency warfare in Southwest Asia has left the Army well equipped to take down irregular forces such as ISIS, but much less ready to fight an enemy armed with tanks, artillery and attack aircraft.  The number of brigade combat teams in the active-duty force has fallen from 45 to 32, and only a quarter of those are the kind of heavy armored formations that could repulse a Russian mechanized advance.  The active-duty force has also lost a quarter of its helicopters, with only modest investments being made to upgrade existing fleets or field new capabilities.  To make matters worse, the number of Army units stationed in Europe has been reduced to only two light brigades — a small fraction of what would be needed to deal with a major Russian advance.

    Russia would enjoy huge geographical advantages in a war.  Russia historically has been a land power, and the vast preponderance of its military capabilities are deployed in Europe.  It routinely conducts military exercises near the eastern borders of Estonia, Ukraine, and other nearby states it might invade.  U.S. military forces are located far from where the military action might start, and would have great difficulty responding rapidly to a Russian invasion that began with no warning.  Given the scale of conventional forces in western Russia that could quickly be brought into action, Moscow might be able to present the West with a fait accompli in places like Ukraine — especially given the internal wrangling that would precede any NATO response.  Moscow would probably time its moves to take advantage of the fact that most U.S. ground forces now rotate in and out of the area rather than being permanently based there.

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    Air support might not be available.  The Army trains to fight on the assumption that it will have continuous support from the U.S. Air Force and other allied aircraft.  However, Russian air defenses in Eastern Europe are so imposing that Army planners aren’t sure Western aircraft will be able to operate in support of ground forces.  Russian surface-to-air missiles such as the mobile SA-21 (over 150 launchers currently deployed) can reach into the air space of friendly countries to shoot down any aircraft that aren’t stealthy or supported by sophisticated jamming techniques.  For instance, most of Polish air space is potentially within range of Russian air defenses.  U.S. military planners don’t think the Russians could establish air dominance, but they could achieve sporadic air control sufficient to exclude all Western tactical air forces except for very stealthy fifth-generation fighters, leaving U.S. ground forces exposed.

    Russian conventional weapons are increasingly capable.  Air defense is not the only mission area where NATO forces might be at a disadvantage.  As the Russian military has become increasingly professionalized, it has introduced an array of advanced conventional weapons while America and its allies have under-invested in new technology.  Army officials say the Russians might outgun U.S. forces locally in long-range fires, electronic warfare, cyber skills and the ability to practice mixed regular/irregular tactics known as “hybrid warfare.”  Russian antitank weapons are also said to pose a serious threat to U.S. armored vehicles, in part because the Army has failed to move ahead with plans to equip its existing fleet with active-protection systems that deflect the force of incoming rounds.  With the exception of the Stryker SYK +0.00% wheeled troop carrier, most of the Army’s recent efforts to field more agile, survivable vehicles have faltered.

    Continued from page 1

    Moscow might be willing to use nuclear weapons.  The Russians enjoy massive local superiority in tactical nuclear weapons, and Moscow’s military doctrine gives such weapons more prominence in warfighting plans than Western thinking does.  President Putin said earlier this year that he considered putting Russian nuclear forces on alert during the Ukraine crisis in 2014 to deter Western intervention.  Moscow’s military appears to view first use of nuclear weapons as a legitimate response to conventional threats endangering the Russian homeland, so NATO military planners have to at least consider the possibility that what starts out as a war over Russian land-grabs in the Baltic region or Ukraine escalates into a nuclear exchange as the campaign progresses.  Once that threshold is breached, there is no way of knowing where it might lead, and the U.S. Army has no clear idea how to respond if and when.

    Surveying the decay in NATO capabilities for dealing with a Russian onslaught, my Lexington Institute colleague Daniel Goure recently argued, “The U.S. Army needs to redeploy multiple armored combat brigades, additional Patriot air defense battalions, attack helicopter units and advanced sensors to Europe.”  In other words, it needs to reverse the drawdown of U.S. ground forces in Europe that began when the Cold War ended and is currently enshrined in President Obama’s 2012 Strategic Planning Guidance.  I think Dr. Goure is right, because having a robust force permanently stationed in Europe would both deter aggression and give the U.S. a quick response if deterrence failed.  For all the money NATO spends on its collective defense, it doesn’t appear ready to cope with a Russian attack westward, and nobody knows what Putin might do if he thinks Washington is distracted elsewhere.



    Last edited by nemrod on Tue Dec 15, 2015 12:18 pm; edited 1 time in total

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