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    Project 677: Lada/Amur(export) class Submarine

    Rodion_Romanovic
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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic on Thu Feb 06, 2020 7:48 am

    PapaDragon wrote:
    runaway wrote:They are ordering a new 636.3 for BF instead of Lada, time to scrap the lada project.

    I don't think they are doing that due to any deficiencies on Lada-class

    It was recently revealed that a lot of Soviet era Kilo subs are in very bad shape and not usable which means that they need even more replacements in short amount of time hence additional Kilo orders

    My guess is that they will keep ordering Kilos and Ladas in parallel until production rate of Lada-class reaches satisfactory levels

    At that point they will discontinue Kilos

    I believe they will order some Ladas, but not as many as other projects. If they finish fixing their maturity problems they are better than kilos and allow also the use of a reduced crew, but not much better. In the meanwhile they realised that they can produce kilos at a very fast pace so if they want newly built diesel electric subs that are good enough in a short time they stick with them for the moment. The other issue for Lada is that when the last batch of kilos for the pacific fleet, and later baltic fleet as a replacement of the older generation kilos will be delivered there won't be a high need of newly built electric sub for a while...

    By the way, most probably the last three kilos for the Baltic fleet will be produced by the admiralty shipyard, however the shipyard in Nizhny Novgorod Krasnoye Sormovo announced that they will be ready to get back at building also subs and in particular expressed interest for the last batch of Kilos...
    runaway
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    Post  runaway on Thu Feb 06, 2020 9:39 am

    Very true, if they have built so many new kilos in short time the Navy dont need any new SSKs for decades to come. Not in large numbers anyway, just the one of design to move evolution forward.
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB on Fri Feb 07, 2020 1:32 am

    If those kilos are replaceing kilos that needed urgent replacement then going forward they will need new SSKs so it makes sense to keep with the Lada plan.

    Very simply put the Lada offers the same or better fire power from a sub that is 500 tons lighter and with half the crew required to operate a Kilo.

    More importantly the sensors and systems are better so in almost every role it is rather better... why would you not want Lada subs?

    They make sense economically and militarily and logistically.
    Rodion_Romanovic
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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic on Fri Feb 07, 2020 8:23 am

    GarryB wrote:If those kilos are replaceing kilos that needed urgent replacement then going forward they will need new SSKs so it makes sense to keep with the Lada plan.

    Very simply put the Lada offers the same or better fire power from a sub that is 500 tons lighter and with half the crew required to operate a Kilo.

    More importantly the sensors and systems are better so in almost every role it is rather better... why would you not want Lada subs?

    They make sense economically and militarily and logistically.
    absolutely. The only issue is that if they replace most of the older kilos (project 877) with improved kilos (project 636.3) there will be less need for new subs for a while.

    If i am not mistaken there are about a dozen older kilo (built around 1990) still in service in the russian navy, between the pacific and the northern fleet.

    There are now 7 636.3 subs in service: 6 with the black sea
    Fleet while he pacific fleet already received 1 of their ordered 6 improved kilos, and there will be also an additional order of 3 subs for the baltic fleet.

    So, most probably after those they will start to order Lada class, but in slightly lower numbers  (e.g. 10 or 12).

    The oldest improved kilo in the black sea fleet is only 6 years old,  and we can expect it will stay in service for another 15 years at least, unless during a mid life overhaul they decide to turn it in an export version and sell it in order to be able to buy a more modern sub  for the russian navy.

    As i wrote before, my curiosity is to see if Krasnoye Sormovo shipyard will go back building subs as well.
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    Post  Austin on Tue Mar 31, 2020 3:20 pm

    As per SY press total 5 Lada class is under construction or signed for

    http://admship.ru/press/news/ao-admiralteyskie-verfi-podpisalo-kontrakt-na-stroitelstvo-dvukh-podvodnykh-lodok-proekta-677-lada/

    As part of the ARMY-2019 international military-technical forum in Moscow, a contract was signed between the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation and Admiralty Shipyards JSC for the construction of two submarines of Project 677 Lada.

    The lead boat of the St. Petersburg series was transferred to the Navy in April 2010 and is currently in trial operation in the Northern Fleet. The submarine Kronstadt, the second in a series of project 677 Lada, was laid down in July 2005 and launched in September 2018. Today, the ship is completing the adjustment of systems and equipment, mooring tests have begun. The third order of the Velikiye Luki series, pledged in March 2015, is at the stage of block formation, loading and installation of large-sized equipment in regular places has begun.
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB on Wed Apr 01, 2020 7:00 am

    For each Kilo they replace with a Lada class sub they will have almost half a crew spare, so making more Ladas makes sense in terms of bang for buck because extra subs improves performance too.
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    Post  Austin on Tue Apr 07, 2020 12:07 pm

    Russian Defense Ministry will receive 12 of the latest Lada submarines

    https://tvzvezda.ru/news/opk/content/201811271715-sjxz.htm
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    Post  Austin on Tue Apr 07, 2020 12:11 pm

    Crouching hunter: why the Lada submarines are considered the best in the world

    https://tvzvezda.ru/news/opk/content/201809271258-292n.htm


    Very good update by Vladimir Karnozov on Lada program , Interesting Lada tracked a Virginia Class SSN for many hours as the US submarine was trailing Russian Naval battle group in an exercise.

    Unknown to US submarine Lada class was keeping a tail on Russian Surface Ship Exercise and tracked Virginia class too.
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    Post  PapaDragon on Tue Apr 07, 2020 6:19 pm


    Submarine "St. Petersburg" (Lada-class lead ship) of the Northern Fleet is heading for modernization in Kronstadt

    https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/8180225
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    Post  Big_Gazza on Wed Apr 08, 2020 1:24 am

    Austin wrote:Russian Defense Ministry will receive 12 of the latest Lada submarines

    https://tvzvezda.ru/news/opk/content/201811271715-sjxz.htm

    This article is dated 2018 scratch

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