Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues


    Lada/Amur Submarine: News and Development

    Share
    avatar
    GunshipDemocracy

    Posts : 2466
    Points : 2508
    Join date : 2015-05-17
    Age : 76
    Location : fishin on Stalin´s Strait between Mexico and Canada

    Re: Lada/Amur Submarine: News and Development

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Thu May 03, 2018 4:17 pm

    runaway wrote:News or perhaps rumors regarding Lada class. From the National Interest

    Why not just scrap the hulks and begin all over.. maybe scrap the AIP as it seems russia is unable to develop its "diesel" variant. Better go  lithium-ion


    Not sure if NI is best source to learn about Russian Fleet. They claimed that Kinzhal is not hypersonic :-))) As for AIP - this is clear example of under investment. Looks like diesel-electrical subs will be produced in 2020 (636.3) so why to hurry?

    As for lithium batteries - they are ok but not sure if better not to use AIP. With  diesel makes AIP cheaper in maintenance and safer than hydrogen one.


    Last edited by GunshipDemocracy on Thu May 03, 2018 11:45 pm; edited 1 time in total
    avatar
    Tsavo Lion

    Posts : 442
    Points : 442
    Join date : 2016-08-15
    Location : AZ, USA

    Re: Lada/Amur Submarine: News and Development

    Post  Tsavo Lion on Thu May 03, 2018 11:09 pm

    Is it possible to add AIP on them later? The Swedes done it on 1 French & their sub:
    In the mid-1980s Kockums installed Stirling engines and a liquid oxygen (LOX) system from AGA Cryo aboard the French 500 ton civilian research submarine Saga. The Saga has an operating depth of 600 meters and is fitted with a diving system for work at depths as deep as 450 meters.
    Intense R&D and the experiences gained from the Saga project paved way for the installation of a Stirling engine in the Royal Swedish Navy submarine HMS Näcken in 1988. The submarine was placed in dry-dock and cut in two. A fully outfitted eight-meter AIP section was then inserted. The years of practical sea-trials that followed were extremely satisfactory and resulted in the installation of Stirling AIP systems in the new Swedish Gotland Class submarines.
    https://saab.com/naval/submarines-and-warships/technologies/the-stirling-engine/
    They need more SSKs anyway so even w/o AIP they can patrol/deploy to coastal areas/closed seas with not much less mission capability being reduced. Later, some of them may be backfitted with AIP &/or sold "as is", like the original & improved Kilos were:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kilo-class_submarine#Operators
    avatar
    Militarov

    Posts : 5922
    Points : 5961
    Join date : 2015-09-02
    Location : Serbia

    Re: Lada/Amur Submarine: News and Development

    Post  Militarov on Thu May 03, 2018 11:14 pm

    Tsavo Lion wrote:Is it possible to add AIP on them later? The Swedes done it on 1 French & their sub:
    In the mid-1980s Kockums installed Stirling engines and a liquid oxygen (LOX) system from AGA Cryo aboard the French 500 ton civilian research submarine Saga. The Saga has an operating depth of 600 meters and is fitted with a diving system for work at depths as deep as 450 meters.
    Intense R&D and the experiences gained from the Saga project paved way for the installation of a Stirling engine in the Royal Swedish Navy submarine HMS Näcken in 1988. The submarine was placed in dry-dock and cut in two. A fully outfitted eight-meter AIP section was then inserted. The years of practical sea-trials that followed were extremely satisfactory and resulted in the installation of Stirling AIP systems in the new Swedish Gotland Class submarines.
    https://saab.com/naval/submarines-and-warships/technologies/the-stirling-engine/
    They need more SSKs anyway so even w/o AIP they can patrol/deploy to coastal areas/closed seas with not much less mission capability being reduced. Later, some of them may be backfitted with AIP &/or sold "as is", like the original & improved Kilos were:
     https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kilo-class_submarine#Operators

    You can always add additional capabilities via the hull cutting or splitting sub as they did however its expencive as Hell feat.
    avatar
    GarryB

    Posts : 17957
    Points : 18531
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Lada/Amur Submarine: News and Development

    Post  GarryB on Sat May 05, 2018 7:26 am

    Don't scrap them, because although they did not live up to expectations they are still rather better boats than any currently in service.

    It would be certainly in Americas interests if Russia just scrapped all its submarines it is making now and developing in the near future...

    Not really in Russian interests though.

    As for lithium batteries - they are ok but not sure if better not to use AIP. With diesel makes AIP cheaper in maintenance and safer than hydrogen one.

    Actually they are already working on both anyway and likely will end up using both lithium ion batteries AND diesel based AIP systems.

    Is it possible to add AIP on them later?

    Almost certain that they will.

    They were originally expected to have AIPs so no doubt they will perhaps allow for that in the design.


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order
    avatar
    Big_Gazza

    Posts : 1139
    Points : 1149
    Join date : 2014-08-25
    Location : Melbourne, Australia

    Re: Lada/Amur Submarine: News and Development

    Post  Big_Gazza on Sun May 06, 2018 3:20 am

    What we refer to as "AIP" is the method of generating the electrical power, it doesn't restrict in anyway the battery technology used to store the energy. Choice of battery affects the charger technology, but this is a relatively simple issue, and power generation & storage can be developed and trialed independently.

    Sponsored content

    Re: Lada/Amur Submarine: News and Development

    Post  Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Mon May 28, 2018 10:04 am