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    Lada/Amur Submarine: News and Development

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    andalusia

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    Re: Lada/Amur Submarine: News and Development

    Post  andalusia on Sat Jan 30, 2016 11:14 pm

    This is an interesting read:

    http://nextbigfuture.com/2016/01/usa-is-not-buying-cheaper-and-deadlier.html
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    max steel

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    Re: Lada/Amur Submarine: News and Development

    Post  max steel on Mon Mar 21, 2016 2:48 pm

    Construction of Last Lada-Class Submarines to Be Completed in 2018-2019

    The two last Lada-class diesel-electric submarines (Project 677) will be constructed in 2019, an official representative of Russia's United Shipbuilding Corporation said Friday."The two Lada-class Project 677 submarines will be delivered as scheduled — in 2018 and 2019," the spokesman told RIA Novosti.

    Then the construction of the new non-nuclear Kalina-class submarines will be launched," he added.Air-independent, closed cycle submarines, which usually use hydrogen-oxygen fuel cells, are quieter than conventional diesel-electric boats and do not have to surface or use snorkel tubes to breathe air, thereby exposing themselves to detection by radar and other sensors.

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    George1

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    Re: Lada/Amur Submarine: News and Development

    Post  George1 on Mon Mar 28, 2016 5:18 pm

    USC: Τrial operations of the parent of submarines "Lada" will end in 2016

    Подробнее на ТАСС:
    https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=en&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/3155171&usg=ALkJrhhbktmquJKEZ1-BGWhxk1zxO2zLWA


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    zg18

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    Re: Lada/Amur Submarine: News and Development

    Post  zg18 on Wed Jun 01, 2016 12:52 pm

    "Lada" class sub U/C, May 31st, Admiralty shipyards St. Petesburg


    Austin

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    Re: Lada/Amur Submarine: News and Development

    Post  Austin on Sun Jun 26, 2016 7:13 pm

    http://aviationweek.com/awin/new-submarines-use-advanced-technology-improve-performance

    Russia's Project 636 SSK, called Kilo in the West, set standards in the Cold War, but its designer—St. Petersburg-based CDB Rubin—is now playing catch-up after years of underinvestment. Rubin's general director, Andrey Dyachkov, tells DTI that the company is completing bench-testing of a prototype AIP system.

    The system is a hydrogen fuel cell, as used by TKMS-HDW, but instead of operating on stored hydrogen, it relies on chemical re- formation of the sub's diesel fuel, which eliminates special on-board tankage and hydrogen infrastructure on shore. According to Dyachkov, this technology has already been validated during AIP bench tests. “This allows us to use the standard diesel fuel and doesn't require complex ground support” compared to the German variant, he explained.

    Rubin plans to install AIP in the Amur 1650, offered for the Indian navy's tender for six conventional submarines. An export version of Russia's Project 677 Lada class, Amur has a surface displacement of 1,765 metric tons, submerged speed of 19 kt. and a crew of 35. It is designed to strike both sea-based and fixed land-based targets. The 66-meter (217-ft.) boat carries six torpedo tubes and Klub-S (SS-N-27) missiles in 10 vertical launchers that can be fired in salvos. For the Indian tender it also will be equipped with Russo-Indian PJ-10 BrahMos supersonic missiles fired from the same launchers.

    The AIP can be installed in the Amur 1650 in a separate module along with the conventional diesel-electric propulsion system. Using the AIP, the sub's endurance can increase by two or three more weeks from 45 days currently, based on a customer's request. Continuous submerged time increases from the current nine days to 14-20 days.

    The first Project 677 boat, the St. Petersburg, is undergoing reliability testing with the Russian navy in the Baltic Sea. In 2012, it is expected to complete the testing of its sonar system, says Dyachkov. The Admiralty Shipyards in St. Petersburg are constructing two more, the Kronstadt and Sevastopol, but so far there are no funds for completing these with AIP.

    Rubin plans to further increase Amur 1650 endurance by replacing lead-acid batteries with lithium-ion (Li-Ion) batteries. The designers do not report about their progress in this field, but say that lithium-ion batteries will be able to increase the sub's submerged endurance and distance by 50% at low noise patrol speed and threefold at full speed. Unlike the AIP, which is only compatible with the Amur, the new batteries can also be offered for Rubin's Project 636 Kilo boats.
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    George1

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    Re: Lada/Amur Submarine: News and Development

    Post  George1 on Fri Sep 30, 2016 12:19 am

    Operational evaluation of Russia's Lada-class lead submarine meets expectations

    More:
    http://tass.com/defense/902924?_ga=1.55244651.1337049799.1447427261


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    zg18

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    Re: Lada/Amur Submarine: News and Development

    Post  zg18 on Thu Nov 17, 2016 12:08 pm

    Lada class "Sankt Peterburg" test launches cruise missiles in Barents sea


    http://militarynews.ru/story.asp?rid=1&nid=432821
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    franco

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    Re: Lada/Amur Submarine: News and Development

    Post  franco on Wed Mar 22, 2017 9:43 pm

    Second Lada sub to be delivered in 2019. Third completion date depends on financing and no word yet on any further orders;

    http://forum.militaryparitet.com/viewtopic.php?id=15722
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Lada/Amur Submarine: News and Development

    Post  PapaDragon on Wed Mar 22, 2017 10:12 pm

    franco wrote:Second Lada sub to be delivered in 2019. Third completion date depends on financing and no word yet on any further orders;

    http://forum.militaryparitet.com/viewtopic.php?id=15722

    I don't think they will be pursuing this project any further beyond completing ones they started.
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    Big_Gazza

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    Re: Lada/Amur Submarine: News and Development

    Post  Big_Gazza on Thu Mar 23, 2017 9:08 am

    PapaDragon wrote:I don't think they will be pursuing this project any further beyond completing ones they started.

    Agreed.  They'll move on to the Kalina class once they've finished these three. The Lada program hasn't been a waste as they are effectively testbeds for new technoogy and a good chance to try out new solutions.
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    AlfaT8

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    Re: Lada/Amur Submarine: News and Development

    Post  AlfaT8 on Thu Mar 23, 2017 7:16 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    franco wrote:Second Lada sub to be delivered in 2019. Third completion date depends on financing and no word yet on any further orders;

    http://forum.militaryparitet.com/viewtopic.php?id=15722

    I don't think they will be pursuing this project any further beyond completing ones they started.

    They wouldn't have built the IAP for it if they weren't going to build more.
    Especially the VLS version which would be very useful for Russia.
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Lada/Amur Submarine: News and Development

    Post  PapaDragon on Thu Mar 23, 2017 9:53 pm

    AlfaT8 wrote:.............

    They wouldn't have built the IAP for it if they weren't going to build more.
    Especially the VLS version which would be very useful for Russia.

    They started that project back in the 90's and while they may have fixed all issues now basic design has become obsolete. They will be going with Kalina class for AIP subs.

    You mentioned VLS version. What do you know about it? If they install VLS on conventional subs it will be epic.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Lada/Amur Submarine: News and Development

    Post  GarryB on Fri Mar 24, 2017 10:20 am

    After the success of cruise missiles in the Syrian conflict it would not surprise me if they put VLS launchers in everything.

    There are options for VLS tubes in Kilo and improved Kilo designs so I would expect Lada and Kalina to have them too.


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    George1

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    Re: Lada/Amur Submarine: News and Development

    Post  George1 on Fri Mar 24, 2017 10:29 am

    since Kalina is coming then why to keep developing Lada. This is the point i guess


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    AlfaT8

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    Re: Lada/Amur Submarine: News and Development

    Post  AlfaT8 on Fri Mar 24, 2017 5:28 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    AlfaT8 wrote:.............

    They wouldn't have built the IAP for it if they weren't going to build more.
    Especially the VLS version which would be very useful for Russia.

    They started that project back in the 90's and while they may have fixed all issues now basic design has become obsolete. They will be going with Kalina class for AIP subs.

    You mentioned VLS version. What do you know about it? If they install VLS on conventional subs it will be epic.

    I see, so Kalina is an entirely new project, honestly i thought it was simply a re-brand of Lada like how the Graney-class became the Yasen-class.

    Yes, extremely Epic, let's see how Nato hunt's down small VLS ready Diesel/AIPs.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Lada/Amur Submarine: News and Development

    Post  GarryB on Sat Mar 25, 2017 1:51 am

    since Kalina is coming then why to keep developing Lada. This is the point i guess

    The Lada class are not bad vessels, they have just been overtaken with new technology and new systems.

    They are not still developing the Lada class they are just completing them and fitting them with new equipment to make them useful.

    To scrap them now would be to scrap three vessels that are ten times quieter than the Kilos they currently have in service.

    Kalina is designed from scratch with new systems and new technology and will be better and probably cheaper too.


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    berhoum

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    Re: Lada class Submarine: News

    Post  berhoum on Mon Mar 27, 2017 5:59 pm

    Hello I would want to know if we can install(settle) an anaerobic propulsion system (or AIP) on Submarines Kilo [636 / 877]  study
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    Isos

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    Re: Lada/Amur Submarine: News and Development

    Post  Isos on Mon Mar 27, 2017 8:56 pm

    berhoum wrote:Hello I would want to know if we can install(settle) an anaerobic propulsion system (or AIP) on Submarines Kilo [636 / 877]  study

    Possible if you have money but they won't, Kilo's are pretty big to accomodate new systems. Most of them will be replace by kalina in the future which is an AIP subs design.
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    Singular_Transform

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    Re: Lada/Amur Submarine: News and Development

    Post  Singular_Transform on Mon Mar 27, 2017 9:34 pm

    Isos wrote:
    berhoum wrote:Hello I would want to know if we can install(settle) an anaerobic propulsion system (or AIP) on Submarines Kilo [636 / 877]  study

    Possible if you have money but they won't, Kilo's are pretty big to accomodate new systems. Most of them will be replace by kalina in the future which is an AIP subs design.

    Not possible.
    Cost should be as big as the cost of a new sub. Or more.
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    Isos

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    Re: Lada/Amur Submarine: News and Development

    Post  Isos on Mon Mar 27, 2017 11:12 pm

    Singular_Transform wrote:
    Isos wrote:
    berhoum wrote:Hello I would want to know if we can install(settle) an anaerobic propulsion system (or AIP) on Submarines Kilo [636 / 877]  study

    Possible if you have money but they won't, Kilo's are pretty big to accomodate new systems. Most of them will be replace by kalina in the future which is an AIP subs design.

    Not possible.
    Cost should be as big as the cost of a new sub. Or more.

    In theory it's possible. if he was asking if technicaly it's possible to do so then it's yes. But in reality like you said not possible. The cost would be much higher than a new sub as they would need to develop a new version of their AIP to put it into an old desgn not made to hold it.
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    berhoum

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    Re: Lada class Submarine: News

    Post  berhoum on Mon Mar 27, 2017 11:38 pm

    Isos wrote:
    Singular_Transform wrote:
    Isos wrote:
    berhoum wrote:Hello I would want to know if we can install(settle) an anaerobic propulsion system (or AIP) on Submarines Kilo [636 / 877]  study

    Possible if you have money but they won't, Kilo's are pretty big to accomodate new systems. Most of them will be replace by kalina in the future which is an AIP subs design.

    Not possible.
    Cost should be as big as the cost of a new sub. Or more.


    In theory it's possible. if he was asking if technicaly it's possible to do so then it's yes. But in reality like you said not possible. The cost would be much higher than a new sub as they would need to develop a new version of their AIP to put it into an old desgn not made to hold it.

    Thank you for your answers you are the best  russia
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    Singular_Transform

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    Re: Lada/Amur Submarine: News and Development

    Post  Singular_Transform on Mon Mar 27, 2017 11:42 pm

    Isos wrote:
    Singular_Transform wrote:
    Isos wrote:
    berhoum wrote:Hello I would want to know if we can install(settle) an anaerobic propulsion system (or AIP) on Submarines Kilo [636 / 877]  study

    Possible if you have money but they won't, Kilo's are pretty big to accomodate new systems. Most of them will be replace by kalina in the future which is an AIP subs design.

    Not possible.
    Cost should be as big as the cost of a new sub. Or more.

    In theory it's possible. if he was asking if technicaly it's possible to do so then it's yes. But in reality like you said not possible. The cost would be much higher than a new sub as they would need to develop a new version of their AIP to put it into an old desgn not made to hold it.

    Air independent propulsion need a big oxygen tank, and hydrogen tank, or diesel engine with same tricky exhaust condenser system.

    Say if you modify the existing kilos then you can`t simply install the oxygen tank onto the place of the batteries, the oxigen tank must be as close as possible to spehrical .

    list of problems>
    -Cetner of gravity will move. Dramaticaly, and to compensate it the internal distribution of masses has to be rearranged dramaticaly.I don`t know how it can be handled in a tightly packed submarine without rebuild the whole thing from small bits.
    -New section must be welded for LOX tank, hermeticaly separated from all other comparment.
    -The boat must be cutted into pieces.
    -New co2/h2o condesner system needs to be installed onto the place of the main generator/motor.


    I don!t think that the above can be possible wihtout spending more money and time than to actualy make a new boat.


    Actualy, the new ship can be considered as something that contain parts from a kilo submarine.

    The above shortcuts can be compensated if say you make an AIP submarine that can last for few days only.But what is the point of the whole story in that case?
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    GarryB

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    Re: Lada/Amur Submarine: News and Development

    Post  GarryB on Tue Mar 28, 2017 9:42 am

    AFAIK the new AIP the Russians are developing use diesel fuel but not liquid o2.

    A Hydrogen fuel cell needs hydrogen and oxygen to become H2O and generate electricity, but this new Russian system does not work that way.

    The enormous advantage of the Russian system is that it uses Diesel... every port on the planet already has the ability to supply diesel to ships... what they don't have is the capacity to deliver and store hydrogen yet.


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    Isos

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    Re: Lada/Amur Submarine: News and Development

    Post  Isos on Tue Mar 28, 2017 1:17 pm

    GarryB wrote:AFAIK the new AIP the Russians are developing use diesel fuel but not liquid o2.

    A Hydrogen fuel cell needs hydrogen and oxygen to become H2O and generate electricity, but this new Russian system does not work that way.

    The enormous advantage of the Russian system is that it uses Diesel... every port on the planet already has the ability to supply diesel to ships... what they don't have is the capacity to deliver and store hydrogen yet.

    Having a big hydorgen tank on board is more than Dangerous ... I've seen a video where different AIP systems are showed but I can't found it. Stocking oxygen on board is the simpplest way but it's not an AIP system as it doesn't produce the oxygen. If I'm not wrong that's what chinese did for their subs.
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    berhoum

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    Re: Lada classe sous-marine: Nouvelles

    Post  berhoum on Tue Mar 28, 2017 1:44 pm

    And a pile(battery) of fuel. Question

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    Re: Lada/Amur Submarine: News and Development

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