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    Lada/Amur Submarine: News and Development

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    George1

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    Re: Lada/Amur Submarine: News and Development

    Post  George1 on Fri Dec 26, 2014 2:36 pm

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    Stealthflanker

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    Re: Lada/Amur Submarine: News and Development

    Post  Stealthflanker on Fri Dec 26, 2014 10:44 pm


    Good.. This is the news i've been waiting for. Now let's see what kind of AIP they're installed.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Lada/Amur Submarine: News and Development

    Post  GarryB on Sat Dec 27, 2014 9:52 am

    The thing with both is by the time their development is done, battery tech will also have advanced as well.

    Don't think of it as AIP vs Batteries.

    AIP allows a sub to generate electricity without operating near the surface with a snorkel running a diesel engine to produce the electricity.

    It means the SSK can go to any depth it likes and not need to surface to recharge the batteries... it can recharge its batteries while underwater performing normal duties.

    Very simply it makes it more like a nuke sub, independent of the surface. More importantly it means it is even more quiet than a nuke which has a cooling system and a gas turbine with super heated steam operating all the time to generate power.

    If battery technology suddenly takes a giant leap forward that is OK because you still need to charge those batteries in the first place and you need an AIP or an air dependent propulsion (ADP) to recharge those batteries. For most subs the ADP is a diesel engine that is either run when the sub is on the surface or snorkelling, for future Russian subs it will have the option of remaining submerged and relatively safe and using AIP to recharge the batteries.


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    Viktor

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    Re: Lada/Amur Submarine: News and Development

    Post  Viktor on Sun Dec 28, 2014 4:01 pm

    Kronshtadt Very Happy


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    George1

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    Re: Lada/Amur Submarine: News and Development

    Post  George1 on Wed Jan 21, 2015 10:36 pm

    The contract for the construction of the fourth non-nuclear submarines of Project 677 "Lada" expected to be signed at the end of 2015, the fleet should receive the submarine in 2019.

    http://www.flotprom.ru/2015/182734/
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    Re: Lada/Amur Submarine: News and Development

    Post  Viktor on Wed Jan 21, 2015 10:59 pm

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    George1

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    Re: Lada/Amur Submarine: News and Development

    Post  George1 on Fri Feb 27, 2015 10:58 pm

    Construction of Russia's third Lada-class submarine to resume Mar 19 — source

    MOSCOW, February 27. /TASS/. Construction of the third Project 677 Lada-class submarine will be resumed on March 19, the Submariner Day in Russia. The boat will be named Velikie Luki, a source in the High Command of the Russian Navy told TASS on Friday.

    According to previous reports, the third Lada-class submarine was to be named Sevastopol.

    The source said that Commander-in-Chief of the Russian Navy, Admiral Viktor Chirkov will attend the ceremony that will be held at the St. Petersburg-based Admiralty Shipyard.

    Construction of the head submarine of Project 677 - the St. Petersburg - was started in 1997, and in 2010 the Navy started its operational testing. The construction of the second and third submarines, laid down in 2006 - 2006 has been suspended. A defense industry source told TASS previously that the contract on the completion of the third Lada-class submarine was renewed in late 2014. According to him, second and third submarines of the series will be delivered to the Navy in 2017 and 2018.

    Surface displacement of the Lada-class submarine - 1,760 tons, is somewhat less than that of the Varshavyanka-class submarines (Project 636 - 2,300 tons). Full submerged speed of Lada-class submarines is higher - 21 knots [against 19 knots of Varshavyanka subs]. Lada-class is the fourth generation of non-nuclear low-noise submarines.
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    George1

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    Re: Lada/Amur Submarine: News and Development

    Post  George1 on Thu Mar 19, 2015 11:32 am


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    Re: Lada/Amur Submarine: News and Development

    Post  ult on Thu Mar 19, 2015 5:17 pm

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    TR1

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    Re: Lada/Amur Submarine: News and Development

    Post  TR1 on Sun Mar 22, 2015 10:46 pm

    Did not realize, this "ceremony" is not even for a new submarine.
    Veliky Luki is just the renamed Sevastopol, that was laid down years ago, but was paused (along with the Krondshdadt) while the lead ship had its testing troubles.
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    George1

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    Re: Lada/Amur Submarine: News and Development

    Post  George1 on Thu Jun 11, 2015 2:29 pm

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    Re: Lada/Amur Submarine: News and Development

    Post  George1 on Thu Nov 05, 2015 2:00 pm

    Navy Commander: Newest project 677 "Lada" submarines will be upgraded

    Serial construction diesel-electric submarines of Project 677 will be significantly improved, said Navy Commander Admiral Viktor Chirkov. He noted that the head submarine of the project is currently in trial operation in the Northern Fleet.

    MOSCOW, November 5 - RIA Novosti. The serial diesel-electric submarine (SSK) Project 677 "Lada" will have significantly improved performance, refinement of the project deals with CDB "Ruby", said Navy Commander Admiral Viktor Chirkov.

    On Thursday, in St. Petersburg was held a ceremony of inclusion of diesel-electric submarines, "Krasnodar" Project 636 "Warszawianka" in the combat strength of the Navy. The submarines of Project 677 "Lada" is the next generation of submarines designed to replace in the future the "Varshavyanka" in the Russian Navy.

    He added that the head submarine of the project - "St. Petersburg" - is currently undergoing trial operation in the Northern Fleet, and the construction of production boats will take into account lessons learned.


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    George1

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    Re: Lada/Amur Submarine: News and Development

    Post  George1 on Thu Nov 05, 2015 2:01 pm

    i wonder how many years the 1st Lada submarine undergo trials


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    Cyberspec

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    Re: Lada/Amur Submarine: News and Development

    Post  Cyberspec on Fri Nov 06, 2015 10:25 pm

    George1 wrote:i wonder how many years the 1st Lada submarine undergo trials

    Until it's ready.

    Reportedly they will order extra Pr 636.6 Imp. Kilos on top of the 6 for the BSF
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    Militarov

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    Re: Lada/Amur Submarine: News and Development

    Post  Militarov on Mon Dec 14, 2015 9:12 am

    "The Rubin Design Bureau and Krylov State Research Center will start developing a prototype submarine air-independent propulsion (AIP) plant and an associated floating test bench, Igor Landgraf, deputy director/chief designer of Krylov’s affiliate TsNII SET said. According to Landgraf, the Russian Industry and Trade Ministry is considering Rubin and Krylov’s proposal for the Development of an AIP Plant Prototype and an Associated Floating Test Bench development work. The proposal had resulted from a resolution by the September 12, 2015 governmental meeting chaired by Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin. The proposal was approved by the Russian Navy’s leading research institute. The work is designed for four years from 2016. Given the scale and urgency of the task assigned, the financing requested under the program totals several billion rubles.

    "We are waiting for the proposal to be approved and the financing hashed out," the deputy director said, "and the Russian Industry and Trade Ministry was tasked with getting the money to pay for the program. Therefore, I think it will take place." Rubin, which completed the research into the land-based AIP plant prototype in December 2014, will be prime contractor, while Krylov’s TsNII SET affiliate is to develop, manufacture and supply an electrochemical generator with a capacity of several hundred kilowatt for the in-development AIP plant prototype, with the generator to "consist of polyethylene fuel cell-based stacks with a unit power of 50kW."



    The prototype of the afore-said BTE-50K fuel cell-based stack was designed, made, tested and submitted to the customer, the Russian Industry and Trade Ministry, under the Krylov-performed AIP Plant with Oxidation Product Disposal development work in 2011-2015. The acceptance trials of the BTE-50K - the most effective Russian-made fuel cell-based stack - were completed with success in March 2015, and the customer accepted the example. To display Krylov’s progress in hydrogen power generation and fuel cells, a BTE-50K analog designed for commercial applications was exhibited at several shows and got good press," Landgraf said. "Now, Rubin and we have a clear-eyed understanding of the way to follow to develop a highly effective AIP plant as soon as possible," the chief designer stressed. "We also realize that advanced diesel-electric submarines are plain inconceivable unless equipped with AIP plants. AIP plants are needed both by the Russian Navy and the navies of many countries, with which we maintain partnership relations and that are our potential customers."

    According to Landgraf’s estimates, if the financing starts in 2016, the AIP plant’s test on the floating test bench will start in 2018 at the earliest. Krylov’s Executive Director Mikhail Zagorodnikov, in turn, said the lack of AIP plants onboard Russian diesel-electric submarines might deny them demand on the global naval arms market. "China and the Republic of Korea build diesel-electric AIP submarines. India is beginning to make [such] boats of its own in cooperation with the French. We will miss the market, unless we develop an AIP plant," Zagorodnikov stressed."


    Source: http://www.navyrecognition.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=3343
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    sepheronx

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    Re: Lada/Amur Submarine: News and Development

    Post  sepheronx on Mon Dec 14, 2015 11:19 pm

    "Saturn" completed the first stage of development work!
    "Saturn" completed the first stage of development work on the creation of three marine gas turbine engines M-90FR, DKVP unit and M-70FRU reverse, which must be equipped with a completely new Russian warships.
    "We expect that by the end of December this year," Saturn "will report to us on the implementation and the second phase of this work, - said the director of the Department of Shipbuilding Industry of Maxim Kochetkov. - By the beginning of 2017 all gas turbine engines have to be designed and manufactured the first prototypes, which are sent to the test. A 2018 scheduled delivery of these units on the ships for our navy. " This project has the highest priority in the program of import substitution in the domestic defense industry, and his success literally depends on the readiness of at least a half dozen under construction and projected frigates, corvettes, cruisers and amphibious ships.

    Militarov wrote:"The Rubin Design Bureau and Krylov State Research Center will start developing a prototype submarine air-independent propulsion (AIP) plant and an associated floating test bench, Igor Landgraf, deputy director/chief designer of Krylov’s affiliate TsNII SET said. According to Landgraf, the Russian Industry and Trade Ministry is considering Rubin and Krylov’s proposal for the Development of an AIP Plant Prototype and an Associated Floating Test Bench development work. The proposal had resulted from a resolution by the September 12, 2015 governmental meeting chaired by Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin. The proposal was approved by the Russian Navy’s leading research institute. The work is designed for four years from 2016. Given the scale and urgency of the task assigned, the financing requested under the program totals several billion rubles.

    "We are waiting for the proposal to be approved and the financing hashed out," the deputy director said, "and the Russian Industry and Trade Ministry was tasked with getting the money to pay for the program. Therefore, I think it will take place." Rubin, which completed the research into the land-based AIP plant prototype in December 2014, will be prime contractor, while Krylov’s TsNII SET affiliate is to develop, manufacture and supply an electrochemical generator with a capacity of several hundred kilowatt for the in-development AIP plant prototype, with the generator to "consist of polyethylene fuel cell-based stacks with a unit power of 50kW."



    The prototype of the afore-said BTE-50K fuel cell-based stack was designed, made, tested and submitted to the customer, the Russian Industry and Trade Ministry, under the Krylov-performed AIP Plant with Oxidation Product Disposal development work in 2011-2015. The acceptance trials of the BTE-50K - the most effective Russian-made fuel cell-based stack - were completed with success in March 2015, and the customer accepted the example. To display Krylov’s progress in hydrogen power generation and fuel cells, a BTE-50K analog designed for commercial applications was exhibited at several shows and got good press," Landgraf said. "Now, Rubin and we have a clear-eyed understanding of the way to follow to develop a highly effective AIP plant as soon as possible," the chief designer stressed. "We also realize that advanced diesel-electric submarines are plain inconceivable unless equipped with AIP plants. AIP plants are needed both by the Russian Navy and the navies of many countries, with which we maintain partnership relations and that are our potential customers."

    According to Landgraf’s estimates, if the financing starts in 2016, the AIP plant’s test on the floating test bench will start in 2018 at the earliest. Krylov’s Executive Director Mikhail Zagorodnikov, in turn, said the lack of AIP plants onboard Russian diesel-electric submarines might deny them demand on the global naval arms market. "China and the Republic of Korea build diesel-electric AIP submarines. India is beginning to make [such] boats of its own in cooperation with the French. We will miss the market, unless we develop an AIP plant," Zagorodnikov stressed."


    Source: http://www.navyrecognition.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=3343

    China has an AIP system of their own? Same with S.Korea?  I thought that was mainly France and Germany that had it.

    And why it would take Russia longer to produce one? I thought they already had one on their Lada submarine (which is AIP as well)? Unless this is all brand new technology cause I see them mention Hydrogen Fuel Cells, which gives me indication that this is a whole new system.
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    ExBeobachter1987

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    Re: Lada/Amur Submarine: News and Development

    Post  ExBeobachter1987 on Tue Dec 15, 2015 12:31 am

    sepheronx wrote:And why it would take Russia longer to produce one?  I thought they already had one on their Lada submarine (which is AIP as well)?  Unless this is all brand new technology cause I see them mention Hydrogen Fuel Cells, which gives me indication that this is a whole new system.

    The development of the Lada-class was troubled.
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    Re: Lada/Amur Submarine: News and Development

    Post  Militarov on Tue Dec 15, 2015 1:04 am

    sepheronx wrote:

    Militarov wrote:"The Rubin Design Bureau and Krylov State Research Center will start developing a prototype submarine air-independent propulsion (AIP) plant and an associated floating test bench, Igor Landgraf, deputy director/chief designer of Krylov’s affiliate TsNII SET said. According to Landgraf, the Russian Industry and Trade Ministry is considering Rubin and Krylov’s proposal for the Development of an AIP Plant Prototype and an Associated Floating Test Bench development work. The proposal had resulted from a resolution by the September 12, 2015 governmental meeting chaired by Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin. The proposal was approved by the Russian Navy’s leading research institute. The work is designed for four years from 2016. Given the scale and urgency of the task assigned, the financing requested under the program totals several billion rubles.

    "We are waiting for the proposal to be approved and the financing hashed out," the deputy director said, "and the Russian Industry and Trade Ministry was tasked with getting the money to pay for the program. Therefore, I think it will take place." Rubin, which completed the research into the land-based AIP plant prototype in December 2014, will be prime contractor, while Krylov’s TsNII SET affiliate is to develop, manufacture and supply an electrochemical generator with a capacity of several hundred kilowatt for the in-development AIP plant prototype, with the generator to "consist of polyethylene fuel cell-based stacks with a unit power of 50kW."

    The prototype of the afore-said BTE-50K fuel cell-based stack was designed, made, tested and submitted to the customer, the Russian Industry and Trade Ministry, under the Krylov-performed AIP Plant with Oxidation Product Disposal development work in 2011-2015. The acceptance trials of the BTE-50K - the most effective Russian-made fuel cell-based stack - were completed with success in March 2015, and the customer accepted the example. To display Krylov’s progress in hydrogen power generation and fuel cells, a BTE-50K analog designed for commercial applications was exhibited at several shows and got good press," Landgraf said. "Now, Rubin and we have a clear-eyed understanding of the way to follow to develop a highly effective AIP plant as soon as possible," the chief designer stressed. "We also realize that advanced diesel-electric submarines are plain inconceivable unless equipped with AIP plants. AIP plants are needed both by the Russian Navy and the navies of many countries, with which we maintain partnership relations and that are our potential customers."

    According to Landgraf’s estimates, if the financing starts in 2016, the AIP plant’s test on the floating test bench will start in 2018 at the earliest. Krylov’s Executive Director Mikhail Zagorodnikov, in turn, said the lack of AIP plants onboard Russian diesel-electric submarines might deny them demand on the global naval arms market. "China and the Republic of Korea build diesel-electric AIP submarines. India is beginning to make [such] boats of its own in cooperation with the French. We will miss the market, unless we develop an AIP plant," Zagorodnikov stressed."


    Source: http://www.navyrecognition.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=3343

    China has an AIP system of their own? Same with S.Korea?  I thought that was mainly France and Germany that had it.

    And why it would take Russia longer to produce one?  I thought they already had one on their Lada submarine (which is AIP as well)?  Unless this is all brand new technology cause I see them mention Hydrogen Fuel Cells, which gives me indication that this is a whole new system.

    Yeah China has AIP on Type 039A subs sometimes refered to as Type 41A, but its stirling AIP not fuel cell. Stirling engine solution burns diesel and liquid oxigen, and its combusted on very high pressure (higher than surrounding water) so it still can push the exaust gases outside, this kinda limits maximum depth to somewhat about 200m. Meanwhlie it can directly supply electricity to all systems or charge batteries.

    "Stirling engines are often compared to reciprocating steam engines, in that they employ a piston-cylinder assembly, but they differ fundamentally, in that the working fluid in the engine is sealed and separated from the heat source, in a closed cycle arrangement. Heat is provided to the Stirling engine by the external combustion of a fuel and oxidiser"

    Japan based their AIP subs Sōryū on Swedish Stirling AIP solution built by Kockums Naval Solutions (SAAB) simply by getting licence. Swedes did this like 2 decades ago basically, so all theirs subs were modified including two that were sold to Singapure to feature AIP.

    When its about South Korea they operate Type 214 which for i belive Hyundai Heavy Industries got "licence".


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    Isos

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    Re: Lada/Amur Submarine: News and Development

    Post  Isos on Wed Dec 16, 2015 12:35 am

    http://fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ship/row/rus/677.htm

    Description of all the versions of the lada class.
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    Big_Gazza

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    Re: Lada/Amur Submarine: News and Development

    Post  Big_Gazza on Wed Dec 16, 2015 11:38 am

    Isos wrote:http://fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ship/row/rus/677.htm

    Description of all the versions of the lada class.

    Hmm... Updated Thursday, September 07, 2000 7:00:00 AM....
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    Re: Lada/Amur Submarine: News and Development

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Fri Dec 18, 2015 3:54 pm

    SEVERODVINSK, 18 Jul — RIA Novosti. Sea tests AiP (anaerobic) power plant will start in 2016 in the Baltic sea, said Friday the General Director of CDB "Rubin" Igor Vilinet.
    "We have completed a full cycle of ground tests, and preparations are under way for sea trials that are a mandatory step, they will begin in 2016 in the Baltic sea," said Vilinet.
    According to him, anaerobic power plant is modular and can be installed including submarines, currently under construction.


    РИА Новости http://ria.ru/defense_safety/20151218/1344206228.html#ixzz3ugURCNB5

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    Re: Lada/Amur Submarine: News and Development

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Fri Dec 18, 2015 4:16 pm

    Currently, the "Admiralty shipyards" built two diesel-electric submarines of project "Lada" - "Kronstadt" and "Velikiye Luki". Delivery of these submarines will happen in a timely manner, said General Director of CDB Rubin Igor Vilinet.


    At the present time in the interests of the Russian Navy at Admiralty shipyards built two diesel submarines of project "Lada" — "Kronstadt" and "Great Luke".
    "The terms of construction are on schedule and the delivery of these submarines will happen in a timely manner," said Vilinet journalists.
    He added that the third submarine of the Lada project is now at the Contracting stage.
    In November, Navy commander Admiral Viktor Chirkov said that the diesel submarines of project 677 "Lada" will have significantly improved characteristics.


    РИА Новости http://ria.ru/defense_safety/20151218/1344222115.html#ixzz3ugZWDaoo


    and from other article:

    "Similarly, for non-nuclear fleet is now under-construction project "Lada", and the next a certain number of ships with improved properties will be based on, for example, the project "Lada", — said Vilinet.

    РИА Новости http://ria.ru/defense_safety/20151218/1344226132.html#ixzz3uga0O95M
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    Re: Lada/Amur Submarine: News and Development

    Post  GarryB on Sat Dec 19, 2015 8:13 am

    AFAIK the first sub wont enter service and will be used as a testing sub for new technologies.

    The second and third will incorporate new technologies and improved systems based on experience with the first vessel and the fourth new build will have a few other brand new technologies like their new design AIP system as standard and likely a few other all Russian technologies.


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    Sea tests AiP (anaerobic) power plant will start in 2016 in the Baltic sea, said Friday the General Director of CDB "Rubin" Igor Vilinet.

    Post  GarryB on Sat Dec 19, 2015 8:18 am

    I have read that there were plans to fit AIP to the second and third Lada class subs to improve their performance.

    The fourth Lada... Lada-M would have AIP as standard AFAIK.

    Of course if they have problems in testing that might not happen to plan.. Smile


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    Re: Lada/Amur Submarine: News and Development

    Post  Isos on Sat Dec 19, 2015 12:19 pm

    Why don't they ask AIP to the chinese ? They always give the best russian stuff (S-400, Su-35, engines ...) so they could give AIP. I have read that russian AIP is not ready and that is the cause why lada is not ready too.

    Maybe I'm wrong. If chinese have AIP thanks to spying, russian should have it too. They are better in spying especially germans and sweden who are leaders in AIP.




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