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    Mistral News thread

    GunshipDemocracy
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    Mistral News thread - Page 33 Empty Re: Mistral News thread

    Post  GunshipDemocracy Fri Jun 19, 2015 12:03 pm

    GarryB wrote:Russia wont benefit from trying to screw France just because their leader is a puppet.

    It is not the fault of the french workers that their government is full of cowards.

    Cut your losses... get the best deal you can and just get over it... but don't forget the lesson... domestic production only.

    Do you think if US will down yet another Boeing to blame Russia? US elites are getting desperate D day is close and masses of hungry armed citizens is no good for them as well ... no money to pay military either for them.


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    Post  PapaDragon Fri Jun 19, 2015 1:19 pm


    It is Even Bigger: Russia's New Helicopter Carrier to Replace Mistrals


    Russia's projected helicopter carrier Lavina is even larger than France's Mistral.


    http://sputniknews.com/military/20150619/1023561835.html

    KUBINKA (Moscow Region), (Sputnik) – The Russian Krylov State Research Center has developed a helicopter carrier project to replace the Mistral-class warships that were not delivered by France, a high-ranking official in the Russian military industrial complex said Friday.

    “The Russian Krylov State Research Center has developed an alternative to the Mistral project of a helicopter carrier, called the Lavina, with a water displacement of 24,000 tons, which is even larger than the French-made ship [of 21,000 tons],” the official said at the Army-2015 military expo outside Moscow.

    According to the official, the new warship is a semi-trimaran with capabilities to sail 5,000 miles at 18 knots without service calls and a maximum speed of 22 knots. The vessel will carry 320 crewmembers and can take on an additional 500 troops or 50 armored vehicles.

    In late May, Deputy Chairman of the Russian Military Industrial Complex Oleg Bochkaryov said that Russia planned to build its own Mistral-class helicopter carriers.

    On Thursday, the director of the department of military technical cooperation, Alexei Diky, said France had handed over to Russia some technology in large-block assembly for the construction of Mistral-class helicopter carriers.
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    Mistral News thread - Page 33 Empty Re: Mistral News thread

    Post  PapaDragon Fri Jun 19, 2015 4:19 pm

    Failed Mistral Deal Causes Fight Among French Government Agencies

    French government agencies are fighting over the future of the Mistral deal, French political analyst Xavier Moreau told Radio Sputnik.


    http://sputniknews.com/politics/20150619/1023582681.html

    Commenting on the failed Mistral deal, Moreau said that there is a disagreement on the state level between the Defense Ministry and the Ministry of Foreign Affairs.

    "It is a well-known fact that there is an internal struggle within the French government, especially between the Defense Ministry, which knows well that if France doesn't deliver the two Mistrals to Russia it will cost the country two of its own frigates, and the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, which has a purely ideological atlanticist point of view," Moreau told Sputnik.

    The Ministry of Foreign Affairs deceived the government in Paris by telling that first of all it would be easy to "buy Russians for a song," second, France would easily find other buyers for its Mistrals and third, that the deal would be quickly resolved, Moreau said.

    This is what the French government currently has to deal with, said the political expert, adding that the entire situation is the fault of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs.

    "It [The Ministry of Foreign Affairs] realized that it won't be able to sell Mistrals to other countries, because China is the only potential customer for the French helicopter carriers! But I think Americans will rather prefer France selling the Mistrals to Russia, not China," Moreau said.

    The moment of truth is coming up soon, said the political expert.

    "Either France will pay for the failed deal from the budget of the Defense Ministry or it [the French government] will give them to Russia," Moreau said.

    The cancellation of the Mistral deal failed to bring any political outcomes to France and now the country is in a “ridiculous situation,” said Caroline Galacteros, a French Political Science professor.

    France and Russia signed the $1.5 billion Mistral deal in 2011. Paris agreed to deliver two Mistral-class helicopter carriers to Russia in November of 2014 and June of 2015. However, France suspended the delivery, citing Moscow's alleged interference in the Ukrainian crisis.

    The deal was suspended in May and now France has to refund the money. Russia wants $890 million already pre-paid to France back, as well as a compensation for the purchase of the equipment and crew training. France is reportedly willing to pay around $870 million, a sum Moscow deems unacceptable.

    Selling the ships to a third party is a complicated task, since France needs Moscow's permission to do so. Russia has repeatedly stated that it will not sign off on this, since Mistrals were custom tailored for the Russian Navy making this an issue of national security.

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    Mistral News thread - Page 33 Empty Re: Mistral News thread

    Post  Russian Patriot Mon Jun 22, 2015 7:24 pm

    Update on What replaces Mistral :http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/library/news/russia/2015/russia-150620-sputnik01.htm?_m=3n%2e002a%2e1449%2edd0ao031i6%2e1bx8

    Priboy and Lavin projects
    max steel
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    Mistral News thread - Page 33 Empty Re: Mistral News thread

    Post  max steel Mon Jun 22, 2015 8:47 pm

    India-France rafale deal is already DEAD . They are buying only 36 or 12 jets in ready to use condition. That's it .
    Rmf
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    Post  Rmf Sat Jun 27, 2015 1:14 pm

    why is russia so hesitant about mistral.
    just an example , russia signed contract with iran for delivery of s-300 pmu-1 division for 800 million, received advanced payment about 20% 160 mill.

    since they didnt deliver Iran sued Russia in geneva court for 4 billion !! even after russia returned advanced payment of 160 mill.
    now iran is geting even beter antei-2500./.
    so sue France sue their ass everywhere for 10 billion. and advanced payment return.
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy Sat Jun 27, 2015 3:44 pm

    Rmf wrote:why is russia so hesitant about mistral.
    just an example , russia signed contract with iran for delivery of s-300 pmu-1 division for 800 million, received advanced payment about 20% 160 mill.

    since they didnt deliver Iran sued Russia in geneva court for 4 billion !! even after russia returned advanced payment of 160 mill.
    now iran is geting even beter antei-2500./.
    so sue France sue their ass everywhere for 10 billion. and advanced payment return.

    so you think that any western based court would role in favor of Russia? What I can see any court would seize property or request Russia to pay France, like in Yukos case. there is no law only law of jungle. The stronger Russia is the less problems with mickey mouse tribunals or other Hague based stuff
    Cplnew83
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    Post  Cplnew83 Sat Jun 27, 2015 6:49 pm

    I've flown from Brest to Marseille on Thursday, over St Nazaire (no cloud) we were still "low" and I've seen the two Russian ships. Felt sad about this aborted contract : Let's hope that finally VMF will receive the two BPC.
    Russian Patriot
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    Post  Russian Patriot Sun Jun 28, 2015 5:02 am

    Cplnew83 wrote:I've flown from Brest to Marseille on Thursday, over St Nazaire (no cloud) we were still "low" and I've seen the two Russian ships. Felt sad about this aborted contract : Let's hope that finally VMF will receive the two BPC.

    Unlikely by the information in post 954 the Navy has two replacement projects.

    BTW can we move the raffle conversation to Air Force section ? - Mod
    Rmf
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    Post  Rmf Sun Jun 28, 2015 7:49 pm

    GunshipDemocracy wrote:
    Rmf wrote:why is russia so hesitant about mistral.
    just an example , russia signed contract with iran for delivery of s-300 pmu-1 division for 800 million, received advanced payment about 20% 160 mill.

    since they didnt deliver Iran sued Russia in geneva court for 4 billion !! even after russia returned advanced payment of 160 mill.
    now iran is geting even beter antei-2500./.
    so sue France sue their ass everywhere for 10 billion. and advanced payment return.

    so you think that any western based court would role in favor of Russia? What I can see any court would seize property or request Russia to pay France, like in Yukos case. there is no law only law of jungle. The stronger Russia is the less problems with mickey mouse tribunals or other Hague based stuff
    so>? who cares!!!
    this is open and shut case for Russia . its a good way for those courts to dicredit themselves i would sue them in every court imaginable , ... and in russian court! Wink
    after western court dismiss cases , russian court will rule in favour of russian side. Idea
    and then after win in russia , seize their property for 10 billion!
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    Post  JohninMK Thu Jul 02, 2015 11:11 am

    MOSCOW (Sputnik) – Paris and Moscow have preliminarily agreed on compensation for France’s non-delivery of the Mistral-class helicopter carriers and will continue consultations in July, a source in the military technical cooperation said Thursday.

    “Russia and France were unable to agree on a preliminary compensation for the non-delivery of the Mistrals in June. ‘Preliminary’ because the decision needs to be approved now by the governments of both countries,” the source told RIA Novosti. He said that the next stage in consultations would be held in July.

    Earlier, the press reported that France was apparently prepared to return approximately 800 million euros to Moscow, however, Moscow has insisted on 1.1 billion euros in compensation.


    Read more: http://sputniknews.com/world/20150702/1024113744.html#ixzz3eivOi9ik
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    Mistral News thread - Page 33 Empty Re: Mistral News thread

    Post  George1 Thu Jul 02, 2015 1:23 pm

    Russia to sign final document on Mistral helicopter carriers within month — official

    In the middle of June, a high-ranking official from the military and defense sphere told TASS that Russia still does not rule out the possibility that Mistral helicopter carriers will be delivered

    ST. PETERSBURG, July 2. /TASS/. Russia plans within a month to sign the final document on the destiny of the Mistral class helicopter carriers it ordered in France, Russian presidential aide for military-technical cooperation Vladimir Kozhin told TASS on Thursday.

    "Virtually all issues have already been settled. The final document will be signed in the short run," Kozhin said.

    Answering a question on when the document signing will take place, he said: "Within a month." Kozhin earlier said that Russia is working on settling the issue with returning money for Mistrals.

    The Ђ1.12-billion contract to build the Mistral amphibious assault ships for the Russian Navy was signed in June 2011. In case it is not implemented, France will have to pay Russia a penalty fee.

    The first Mistral, the Vladivostok, was floated in October 2013. It was expected to be handed over to Russia by the French side in autumn 2014, but the handover did not take place due to the situation in Ukraine. The second Mistral, the Sevastopol, was to be delivered to Russia in October 2015, but the deal was suspended as well.

    France suspended the delivery of Mistrals to Russia as part of a package of sanctions the European countries imposed on Moscow for what they claimed was its alleged role in destabilization of east Ukraine. Russia has constantly dismissed allegations that Moscow could in any way be involved in hostilities in Ukraine’s east. Russian Deputy Prime Minister Rogozin said on May 9 that France can’t make decisions on the sale of Mistral helicopter carriers without Russia’s consent as the Russian Federation has the end user certificate.

    Previous reports suggested that the French side was ready to pay compensation to Russia if the helicopter carriers are not delivered. Moscow has repeatedly said that it would be satisfied with any option - either the ships or money. In early June, Kozhin said that he hoped that the situation with the Mistral warships would be resolved during the summer. Russia wants to have all expenses related to production of the ships to be covered, he said.

    In the middle of June, a high-ranking official from the military and defense sphere told TASS that Russia still does not rule out the possibility that Mistral helicopter carriers will be delivered.
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    Post  JohninMK Wed Jul 08, 2015 1:57 pm

    Looks like it is all over bar the trip to the bank.

    The two Mistral-class helicopter carriers built for the Russian Navy will not be delivered to Russia and the cancellation of the contract could cost Paris $1.3 billion, French Defense Minister Jean-Yves Le Drian said on Monday.

    Editor-in-chief of the Russian National Defense magazine Igor Korotchenko called this amount a more reasonable compensation than the ones previously voiced by French officials. Earlier, France said it was ready to pay $880 million while Moscow insisted on a compensation amounting to $1.2 billion. "The $1.3 billion compensation the French minister mentioned is better than previous French offers. The matter will be settled during the ongoing bilateral consultations," Korotchenko said, adding that this is the only viable solution since France is not independent in making key military and political decisions. "All the necessary funds [for the termination of the deal] France transfers to Russia should be used for purchasing large landing craft carries, which will be better for the Russian Navy than Mistrals," Korotchenko noted.

    Earlier in July, a source told RIA Novosti that Paris and Moscow reached a preliminarily agreement on the compensation for France's non-delivery of the Mistrals and would continue consultations in July.

    In 2011, Russia and France signed a $1.5-billion contract on the delivery of two Mistral-class helicopter carriers. Paris refused to fulfill its side of the deal accusing Moscow of meddling in the Ukrainian affairs, a claim that Russia has repeatedly denied.

    In April, French President Francois Hollande said Paris would return Moscow's payment for the warships if the contract was terminated.

    Read more: http://sputniknews.com/military/20150708/1024352339.html#ixzz3fIg2LP6J
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    Post  magnumcromagnon Wed Jul 08, 2015 6:02 pm

    JohninMK wrote:Looks like it is all over bar the trip to the bank.

    The two Mistral-class helicopter carriers built for the Russian Navy will not be delivered to Russia and the cancellation of the contract could cost Paris $1.3 billion, French Defense Minister Jean-Yves Le Drian said on Monday.

    Editor-in-chief of the Russian National Defense magazine Igor Korotchenko called this amount a more reasonable compensation than the ones previously voiced by French officials. Earlier, France said it was ready to pay $880 million while Moscow insisted on a compensation amounting to $1.2 billion. "The $1.3 billion compensation the French minister mentioned is better than previous French offers. The matter will be settled during the ongoing bilateral consultations," Korotchenko said, adding that this is the only viable solution since France is not independent in making key military and political decisions. "All the necessary funds [for the termination of the deal] France transfers to Russia should be used for purchasing large landing craft carries, which will be better for the Russian Navy than Mistrals," Korotchenko noted.

    Earlier in July, a source told RIA Novosti that Paris and Moscow reached a preliminarily agreement on the compensation for France's non-delivery of the Mistrals and would continue consultations in July.

    In 2011, Russia and France signed a $1.5-billion contract on the delivery of two Mistral-class helicopter carriers. Paris refused to fulfill its side of the deal accusing Moscow of meddling in the Ukrainian affairs, a claim that Russia has repeatedly denied.

    In April, French President Francois Hollande said Paris would return Moscow's payment for the warships if the contract was terminated.

    Read more: http://sputniknews.com/military/20150708/1024352339.html#ixzz3fIg2LP6J

    What a sickening joke, Paris purposely neglected to mention they have a massive penalty to pay for not delivering! Those EscarGauls think they're slicker than a can of oil lol... lol1
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    Post  medo Wed Jul 08, 2015 7:49 pm

    Russia need to prolong those negotiations and not accept any agreement for two years. After that time Marine Le Pen will become new president and her government will deliver ships to Russia and maybe even pay some penalties for good relations. Hollande will not be reelected, he made too much damage to France.
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    Post  Werewolf Wed Jul 08, 2015 8:36 pm

    medo wrote:Russia need to prolong those negotiations and not accept any agreement for two years. After that time Marine Le Pen will become new president and her government will deliver ships to Russia and maybe even pay some penalties for good relations. Hollande will not be reelected, he made too much damage to France.

    I hope you are right about Le Pen, but i have no trust in this dictatorship and their vassals, they will select who they want, there won't be an election.
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    Post  Cplnew83 Wed Jul 08, 2015 9:07 pm

    medo wrote:Russia need to prolong those negotiations and not accept any agreement for two years. After that time Marine Le Pen will become new president and her government will deliver ships to Russia and maybe even pay some penalties for good relations. Hollande will not be reelected, he made too much damage to France.

    Amen !
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    Post  ExBeobachter1987 Wed Jul 08, 2015 9:50 pm

    medo wrote:Russia need to prolong those negotiations and not accept any agreement for two years. After that time Marine Le Pen will become new president and her government will deliver ships to Russia and maybe even pay some penalties for good relations. Hollande will not be reelected, he made too much damage to France.

    The ships are not worth two years additional drama.
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    Post  medo Wed Jul 08, 2015 10:08 pm

    ExBeobachter1987 wrote:
    medo wrote:Russia need to prolong those negotiations and not accept any agreement for two years. After that time Marine Le Pen will become new president and her government will deliver ships to Russia and maybe even pay some penalties for good relations. Hollande will not be reelected, he made too much damage to France.

    The ships are not worth two years additional drama.

    It's not about ships, it's about princips and politics and yes, they are worth of it. Here is far more in the game than those two ships. Receiving them after two years of waiting is just a bonus. With a change in France, Germany will follow and US will lost its influence in Europe. Those two ships are just one of the tools to help Le Pen to replace Hollande and to change the course.
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    Post  JohninMK Thu Jul 09, 2015 12:42 am

    medo wrote:
    ExBeobachter1987 wrote:
    medo wrote:Russia need to prolong those negotiations and not accept any agreement for two years. After that time Marine Le Pen will become new president and her government will deliver ships to Russia and maybe even pay some penalties for good relations. Hollande will not be reelected, he made too much damage to France.

    The ships are not worth two years additional drama.

    It's not about ships, it's about princips and politics and yes, they are worth of it. Here is far more in the game than those two ships. Receiving them after two years of waiting is just a bonus. With a change in France, Germany will follow and US will lost its influence in Europe. Those two ships are just one of the tools to help Le Pen to replace Hollande and to change the course.
    As I see it the Russian Navy needs those two ships like a hole in the head. Much better to have the money back, especially as the $ are worth far more once converted to roubles than when Russia converted its roubles into $ to pay for them. Then it will spend that larger number of roubles in Russia on things, not necessarily ships, that it needs now. In some ways it has turned into a brilliant financial deal. That will please the US no end.
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    Post  franco Tue Jul 14, 2015 12:13 am

    Tentative deal reached apparently, just need Putin and Holland to sign off;
    http://www.businessinsider.com/france-and-russia-reached-deal-over-mistral-ship-2015-7?ref=yfp
    magnumcromagnon
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    Post  magnumcromagnon Tue Jul 14, 2015 3:42 am

    franco wrote:Tentative deal reached apparently, just need Putin and Holland to sign off;
    http://www.businessinsider.com/france-and-russia-reached-deal-over-mistral-ship-2015-7?ref=yfp

    For future reference, no one should ever cite business insider and it's 'Red Scare' Joseph McCarthy style agit-prop themed articles.
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    Post  kvs Tue Jul 14, 2015 5:35 am

    JohninMK wrote:
    medo wrote:
    ExBeobachter1987 wrote:
    medo wrote:Russia need to prolong those negotiations and not accept any agreement for two years. After that time Marine Le Pen will become new president and her government will deliver ships to Russia and maybe even pay some penalties for good relations. Hollande will not be reelected, he made too much damage to France.

    The ships are not worth two years additional drama.

    It's not about ships, it's about princips and politics and yes, they are worth of it. Here is far more in the game than those two ships. Receiving them after two years of waiting is just a bonus. With a change in France, Germany will follow and US will lost its influence in Europe. Those two ships are just one of the tools to help Le Pen to replace Hollande and to change the course.
    As I see it the Russian Navy needs those two ships like a hole in the head. Much better to have the money back, especially as the $ are worth far more once converted to roubles than when Russia converted its roubles into $ to pay for them. Then it will spend that larger number of roubles in Russia on things, not necessarily ships, that it needs now. In some ways it has turned into a brilliant financial deal. That will please the US no end.

    I agree. The Mistrals are Serdyukov's tar baby that Russia should dispose of. France made its choice and that is to be an ally of the USA
    in its war against Russia. No need for Russia to do France any favours.
    kvs
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    Post  kvs Tue Jul 14, 2015 5:36 am

    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    franco wrote:Tentative deal reached apparently, just need Putin and Holland to sign off;
    http://www.businessinsider.com/france-and-russia-reached-deal-over-mistral-ship-2015-7?ref=yfp

    For future reference, no one should ever cite business insider and it's 'Red Scare' Joseph McCarthy style agit-prop themed articles.

    It's hard to find any mainstream English-language MSM news source that is not in this agitprop style.
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    Post  GarryB Tue Jul 14, 2015 12:29 pm

    As I see it the Russian Navy needs those two ships like a hole in the head.

    I disagree, I think the Mistral carriers are rather capable vessels and would add considerably to the capabilities of the Russian Naval Infantry, in terms of force projection as well as humanitarian and good will visits and indeed in disaster relief.

    Some of the most valuable things in a disaster area are helicopter transport, plus truck transport vehicles, plus a modern sophisticated 100 or 200 bed hospital would be invaluable in both war and peace.

    Add to that significant command capabilities and it would be a very useful vessel to have on hand in a range of roles... from anti piracy roles, troop landing roles, humanitarian roles, and disaster relief roles.

    Not so long ago there were problems in Myanmar... western help was largely rejected because the government didn't trust them... with Russian help from a Mistral class carrier group they probably could have saved rather more people... I am sure North Korea or Cuba or Venezuela would prefer assistance from a Russian Mistral than a US carrier...

    Being able to offer such assistance strengthens ties and create trust.

    Western countries didn't become global powers and then developed powerful navies... they developed powerful navies which allowed them to become global powers.

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