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    Mistral News thread

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    Vladimir79

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    Re: Mistral News thread

    Post  Vladimir79 on Thu Sep 17, 2009 8:48 am

    Jelena wrote:

    2. I still don't understand why Russia needs to buy Mistral class ship and rely on HATO technology, while cutting 200 billion of rubles in 2009 on "research and development"? To me there is no logic in that... dunno

    Cheaper to buy French ToT than develop technologies from near scratch. Why reinvent the wheel when someone will give you the tools to make it? Developing an LPD of this class would cost billions USD. We can get it at a fraction of that price and use the machines and technology to develop our own carriers. Don't forget that all our carrier construction facilities were located in Crimea so we have nothing today.
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    Re: Mistral News thread

    Post  Jelena on Thu Sep 17, 2009 4:08 pm

    Vladimir79 wrote:
    Jelena wrote:

    2. I still don't understand why Russia needs to buy Mistral class ship and rely on HATO technology, while cutting 200 billion of rubles in 2009 on "research and development"? To me there is no logic in that... dunno

    Cheaper to buy French ToT than develop technologies from near scratch. Why reinvent the wheel when someone will give you the tools to make it? Developing an LPD of this class would cost billions USD. We can get it at a fraction of that price and use the machines and technology to develop our own carriers. Don't forget that all our carrier construction facilities were located in Crimea so we have nothing today.

    I understand that part but still believe that it's not a solution. Maybe on a short run it's more economical (although it's going to cost much more then 300-400 mill.)but on the long run it doesn't pay.
    You said that there is no appropriate combat support for that kind of ship so they need to think about it! Also, Russia will wait for that ship at least 3+ years so it's not an instant solution.Where they're going to repair such a ship?At the end it will cost a billions!Is that ship so much needed?
    What worries me most is that they cut the budget on research and development!That "department" should have more money and not to be limited with budget all the time!You don't want your capital to be used to boost economy of someone else country but your own.
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    Vladimir79

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    Re: Mistral News thread

    Post  Vladimir79 on Thu Sep 24, 2009 5:29 am

    Jelena wrote:

    I understand that part but still believe that it's not a solution. Maybe on a short run it's more economical (although it's going to cost much more then 300-400 mill.)but on the long run it doesn't pay.
    You said that there is no appropriate combat support for that kind of ship so they need to think about it! Also, Russia will wait for that ship at least 3+ years so it's not an instant solution.Where they're going to repair such a ship?At the end it will cost a billions!Is that ship so much needed?
    What worries me most is that they cut the budget on research and development!That "department" should have more money and not to be limited with budget all the time!You don't want your capital to be used to boost economy of someone else country but your own.

    I think building a major naval power has always been a waste of money, especially carriers. MoD doesn't see it that way and they want new carriers in the next ten years. Getting the French to build us docks will cut down development and procurement delays by three times. Our navy is so corrupt they cannot be trusted to do it themselves or it would never get done. It would just be throwing money down the toilet if we did it ourselves. Hopefully Medvedev's anti-corruption policies will be successful, but it will take years to decades for us to be as efficient in large ship building as the French without their help. Sevmash is just a total failure of a company and turning to France only proves it.
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    Re: Mistral News thread

    Post  Vladimir79 on Fri Oct 02, 2009 8:18 am

    Seemingly only a few months ago, only a hypothetical possibility of making use of Russia's foreign-built ships the Navy can now be considered real, not very distant prospect. From recent very unambiguous statements of the first of Russia's military establishment, particularly the Chief of General Staff and Chief of arms, it is clear that Russia is negotiating the acquisition of overseas amphibious assault ship, Helicopter. The most likely candidate for the replenishment of Russia's navy ship class is French Mistral.


    In society, and many experts on the recent decisions of the Ministry of Defense procurement of foreign models of weapons and equipment have caused confusion and some discouragement. Like, still alive, the once all-powerful military industrial complex is no longer able to provide its own army. But the situation should not be dramatized. Modern military technology is so complex that even the most developed countries are not always able to single-handedly provide all the needs of its armed forces.

    Meanwhile, a direct order to produce samples of weapons abroad, or purchase in the same licenses for their manufacture by domestic companies occurred in the pre-revolutionary era and the USSR as in the prewar and the postwar years. Legendary revolver Nagan, "gun" Maxim ", the cruiser" Varangian ", the most massive pre-war Soviet tanks of the family of BT and T-26 trainer aircraft L-39 - all of these samples weapons or manufactured abroad, or are an extension of the licensed designs. If a more detailed appeal to the naval theme, it is worth noting that in the late 30-ies of the USSR in Italy ordered the construction of destroyer leader Tashkent. After the war, the shipyards of Poland and Germany for the Soviet Navy large series built landing and small antisubmarine ships.

    The reasons for the purchase of foreign weapons in most cases the same: domestic designers were unable to quickly create a compliant military and suitable for mass production samples.

    In other words, the mere acquisition of samples of weapons and equipment for the Armed Forces should not be regarded as something shameful and unacceptable. In modern conditions it is rather a normal process. If the ship of this class, as the French Mistral, really needed by our Navy, the attempt to build its own forces would almost certainly result in another long-term construction.

    Several reasons. First, there is no corresponding project, which would require some time. There is, of course, never realized in the Soviet time the project 11780 "Nevsky" PCB, developed as the national equivalent of U.S. amphibious assault ship class "Tarawa". However, according to experts, today it is already outdated and implement it in some form should be refreshed only as a last resort. Secondly, given the fact that updating the general-purpose maritime forces us while still financed on a residual basis, and modernization of the maritime component of the SNF, encountered a number of known problems, the construction of Russia's Helicopter will be carried out at least five years and, consequently, the lead ship Navy will not until the end of the next decade. In such a situation is really better to order the construction of the lead ship abroad with a condition subsequent license production of several similar Helicopter in Russian shipyards. In that case, the fleet will receive the first amphibious assault ship in 2-3 years. Another thing is that the very situation that has arisen around the potential purchase of these vessels, causing some serious issues.

    The most important - on which procedure is going to Russia to buy foreign ships. Originally from the statements of representatives of the military authorities gave the impression that it was a straight purchase. However, in early September, the Navy Commander Vladimir Vysotsky said that the acquisition of Helicopter landing ship-dock (DVKD) will be on a competitive basis. From the words of Admiral Vladimir Vysotsky, apart from French companies DCN and ALSTOM, which carry out the construction of ships like Mistral, the competition will be attended by the Netherlands shipyard Damen Schelde and the Spanish Navantia. The latter two involved the construction of similar DVKD developed by the Dutch and Spanish engineers together. This class of ship Rotterdam (The Netherlands, built two units) and Galicia (Spain, also built two ships). Compared with DVKD Mistral Dutch-Spanish project has a smaller size (total displacement of about 12 500 tonnes against 21 300 tonnes from Mistral) and hence cheaper, but the functionality it below.

    On the flight deck of the Dutch and Spanish ships can simultaneously operate only two helicopters, while on the flight deck DVKD class Mistral placed six rotary-wing aircraft. Moreover, in the finalization of the French project - equipping the flight deck springboard - the ship turns into a light carrier. And yet, despite all the benefits that promise to ship the purchase of foreign Project and the subsequent construction of its sistershipov in Russia with the development of advanced European technology, the competition for DVKD for the Navy of Russia should be involved and domestic shipbuilders, especially Nevskoye PKB.

    In any case, the situation with the purchase of foreign ships for Russia's Navy must be transparent and comprehensible to the interested part of society and the expert community. Apparently, its position on the purchase of a foreign ship, given its unprecedented nature in the modern history of Russia, should make the head of the USC Vladimir Pakhomov, deputy prime minister Igor Sechin, who is chairman of the board of USC, his colleague in the government, Sergei Ivanov, the chairman of the Government, Vladimir Putin and President Dmitry Medvedev. It would make sense to devote the discussion of such a contract is one of the next meetings of the Security Council.

    Regarding the conditions of the contract for the purchase of foreign DVKD, then with Russia by mandatory paragraph should specify the amount of technology transfer and the establishment of licensed production of a series of similar vessels in Russia. Fundamentally nothing new and the impossible in such a requirement is not: it is for this scheme is the selection of foreign partners to implement the program of short-medium range airliners new generation of MS-21.

    What Western technology interest of Russia in the case of construction license DVKD? First of all modern western standards of naval systems, electronic control of the ship and its aggregates. One of the challenges that will confront DVKD in Russia's Navy - the headquarters ship. In this context, for Russia it would be important to obtain Western technology control land, sea and air forces, "electronic battlefield". Perhaps it all. Equip DVKD artillery and antiaircraft weapons in the state of Russia itself. Helicopters for DVKD also, of course, must be the national development. The most likely candidates for the deck look DVKD transport-combat Ka-29 attack and Mi-28N. During the air show MAKS-2009 "Air Force Commander Alexander Zelin mention that the" Night Hunter "will be interesting not only military, but Navy. Apparently, the possibility of basing the helicopter at DVKD had in mind.

    Another important aspect of a possible contract for the purchase and license production of foreign DVKD. Given the realities of Russia, yes, indeed, global practice, too, should be eliminated or at least minimize corruption component of the potential transaction. People who lobby the interests of foreign shipbuilders should be taken in the operational development of the FSB. It would be monitored over the next 5-7 years, their financial status, and income of close relatives.

    We also note that without waiting for completion of the acquisition DVKD, now must begin to explore the question of basing of ships of this type - that is, if Russia gets naval ship class Mistral, he will be the third in size after TAKR "Admiral Kuznetsov" and heavy atomic cruisers Project 1144. Need to develop tactics of DVKD, pick candidates for the naval group, within which will act Helicopter. In other words, until the issues associated with the new ship, more than answers to them. But in any case, the acquisition of a ship of this class will be a huge leap forward for Russia's navy.



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    Re: Mistral News thread

    Post  Russian Patriot on Sun Oct 04, 2009 12:54 am

    France Considers Selling Warship to Russia

    By Peter Fedynsky
    Moscow
    01 October 2009

    France is considering the sale of a helicopter carrier ship to Russia that could provide Moscow with added offensive capabilities at sea.

    Speaking in Moscow, French Foreign Minister Bernard Kouchner and Defense Minister Herve Morin confirmed speculation that France is considering the sale of a helicopter carrier to Russia. Both sides, however, noted no deal has been signed. Kouchner said there are a number of French administrative and political principles governing arms sales, particularly a ship as expensive as a helicopter carrier.

    Russian Defense Minister Anatoly Serdyukov indicated the two countries are now just consulting about the matter.

    The defense chief says Russia has a whole set of questions it has put to the French, and is waiting for answers before it makes specific decisions. Serdyukov adds that Russia is not interested in one ship, but several.

    The carrier under consideration belongs to the so-called Mistral Class of amphibious assault, command and projection ships. The 199-meter vessel can carry 16 helicopters and 450 troops for up to six months or about 700 for shorter periods.

    Russian news media recently quoted naval commander Vladimir Vysotsky as saying the French warship would greatly increase the speed of Russian operations. He said a Mistral Class carrier would have accomplished certain tasks in 40 minutes that took Russia's Black Sea Fleet 26 hours during last year's conflict with Georgia.

    Independent Russian military analyst Pavel Felgenhauer told VOA that France will likely need to consult with allies to go ahead with the sale.

    Felgenhauer says that almost every country that produces modern weapons uses some patents or know-how from the United States. He says France will, therefore, consult with NATO and above all with Washington whether to sell or not to Russia and to what extent.

    Moscow has indicated it may purchase one helicopter carrier and acquire licenses to build several more in Russian shipyards. Each ship costs an estimated $1 billion.

    http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/news/2009/10/mil-091001-voa07.htm
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    Re: Mistral News thread

    Post  Russian Patriot on Sun Oct 04, 2009 12:56 am

    Russia's purchase of French warship requires 'political decision'

    RIA Novosti

    11:02 01/10/2009 MOSCOW, October 1 (RIA Novosti) - France will sell Russia a warship it wants to buy if the two countries reach a political agreement, the French foreign minister said on Thursday.

    Russia confirmed in mid-September that it was in talks with France to buy a Mistral-class helicopter carrier.

    "Negotiations on the purchase of the Mistral carrier are going on between our countries. It is a great ship. However, there is political procedure that needs to be followed. If a political accord is reached, I believe you will be able to buy this ship," Bernard Kouchner said in an interview with Ekho Moskvy radio.

    He did not elaborate on what kind of political accord or agreement was involved.

    Russian Deputy Defense Minister Vladimir Popovkin said on September 19 that in buying the ship Russia was seeking technology to boost its shipbuilding industry.

    He added that Russian shipbuilders strongly oppose the deal and that the government had yet to make a decision on whether Russia needs to build costly aircraft carriers.

    A Mistral-class ship is capable of transporting and deploying 16 helicopters, four landing barges, up to 70 vehicles including 13 battle tanks, and 450 soldiers. The vessel is equipped with a 69-bed hospital and can be used as an amphibious command ship.

    The ship could cost between 300 and 400 million euros ($430-580 million).

    Gen. Nikolai Makarov, the chief of the Russian General Staff, said in August that Russia had plans to buy three or four ships of the same class to be jointly built in Russia.


    http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/library/news/russia/2009/russia-091001-rianovosti01.htm
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    Vladimir79

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    Re: Mistral News thread

    Post  Vladimir79 on Sun Oct 04, 2009 11:56 am

    So does it cost $1 billion or $580 million, that makes a big difference to me.
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    Re: Mistral News thread

    Post  Russian Patriot on Sun Oct 04, 2009 7:45 pm

    Vladimir79 wrote:So does it cost $1 billion or $580 million, that makes a big difference to me.

    I know its weird about conflicting reports..


    but if we build 4 ships of the class then I am actually looking foward to the class as proven by this: Gen. Nikolai Makarov, the chief of the Russian General Staff, said in August that Russia had plans to buy three or four ships of the same class to be jointly built in Russia.
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    Re: Mistral News thread

    Post  IBRIS on Thu Oct 08, 2009 12:44 am

    This ship is anywhere from $650 million to $830 million



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    Re: Mistral News thread

    Post  Russian Patriot on Sun Nov 01, 2009 5:41 pm

    French warship to visit Russia in November
    RIA Novosti

    31/10/200918:04

    MOSCOW, October 31 (RIA Novosti) - A French warship will visit Russia in November, a top Russian Navy official said on Saturday.

    "In November, the Mistral helicopter carrier will arrive on a visit to St. Petersburg," said Oleg Burtsev, first deputy chief of the Navy Main Staff.

    Russia is seeking to buy a Mistral-class helicopter carrier, worth 400-500 million euros.

    Burtsev confirmed Moscow's plans to buy one Mistral-class warship and build another four under license.

    France said in mid-October it had decided to start official negotiations on the sale of a warship to Russia. Paris indicated it would formulate its terms and the further course of negotiations would depend on the response from Moscow. A final decision is expected in mid-November at the latest.

    The warship would be built at the STX shipyard in France in partnership with the French shipbuilder DCNS.

    French Foreign Minister Bernard Kouchner said on October 1 that France would sell Russia a warship if the two countries were able to reach an agreement. He did not elaborate on what kind of political accord or agreement was involved.

    Russian Deputy Defense Minister Vladimir Popovkin said on September 19 that in buying the ship Russia was seeking technology to boost its shipbuilding industry.

    He added that Russian shipbuilders strongly opposed the deal and that the government had yet to make a decision on whether Russia needs to build costly aircraft carriers.

    A Mistral-class ship is capable of transporting and deploying 16 helicopters, four landing barges, up to 70 vehicles including 13 battle tanks, and 450 soldiers. The vessel is equipped with a 69-bed hospital and can be used as an amphibious command ship.

    Gen. Nikolai Makarov, the chief of the Russian General Staff, said in August that Russia had plans to buy three or four ships of the same class to be jointly built in Russia.

    http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/news/2009/10/mil-091031-rianovosti03.htm
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    Estonia alarmed over Russia's intention to buy French warship !

    Post  Russian Patriot on Tue Nov 24, 2009 12:37 am

    Estonia alarmed over Russia's intention to buy French warship RIA Novosti

    22/11/200905:15

    TALLINN, November 22 (RIA Novosti) - Commander-in-Chief of the Estonian Defence Forces Ants Laaneots said if Russia buys a French Mistral amphibious assault ship, measures should be taken to ensure Estonian national security.

    "If the French finally sell it [the warship], we should consider security measures to be taken in case the navy is deployed in the Baltic Sea," Laaneots told Estonian television on Saturday.

    Estonian security analyst Eerik Niiles Kross said: "If Russia obtains such a modern and effective warship, which can carry a tank battalion, take aboard several hundreds of people and faultlessly control [its] operations... the possession of such an equipment will provide Russia with a considerable advantage, if it is deployed in the Baltic Sea."

    Russia is seeking to buy France's Mistral-class helicopter carrier worth 400-500 million euros (around $600-$750 mln). The ship will arrive on an official visit to St. Petersburg on November 23, and the Russian Navy and defense industry experts will be able to inspect it.

    Moscow is also planning to build another four helicopter carriers in Russia under French licensing.

    A Mistral-class ship is capable of transporting and deploying 16 helicopters, four landing barges, up to 70 vehicles, including 13 battle tanks, as well as 450 military personnel. The vessel is equipped with a 69-bed hospital and can be used as an amphibious command ship.

    The Russian Navy is planning to deploy the Mistral-class warships in the Northern and Pacific fleets to conduct troop transport, peacekeeping and rescue missions. In addition, the helicopter carriers could be used effectively in anti-piracy operations, including off the Somali coast.

    Russian shipbuilders strongly oppose the deal and the government has yet to make a decision on whether Russia needs to build costly amphibious assault ships.

    http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/library/news/russia/2009/russia-091122-rianovosti01.htm
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    Re: Mistral News thread

    Post  Russian Patriot on Tue Nov 24, 2009 12:47 am

    French warship in arms deal arrives in St. Petersburg
    RIA Novosti

    23/11/200915:13

    France's Mistral helicopter carrier on Monday made a port call in St. Petersburg, a Russian Navy spokesman said.

    Russia is seeking to buy a Mistral-class amphibious assault ship, worth 400-500 million euros and the ship arrived in Russia's second city to be shown off to military personnel and the public.

    Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin will visit France on November 26-27, when a final decision on the purchase is expected to be made.

    A new warship could be built at the STX shipyard in France in partnership with the French shipbuilder DCNS.

    French Foreign Minister Bernard Kouchner said on October 1 that France would sell Russia a warship if the two countries were able to reach an agreement. He did not elaborate on what kind of political accord or agreement was involved.

    Russian Deputy Defense Minister Vladimir Popovkin said on September 19 Russia was seeking technology to boost its shipbuilding industry by buying the ship.

    He added that Russian shipbuilders strongly opposed the deal and that the government had yet to make a decision on whether Russia needs to build costly carriers.

    The Mistral-class ship is capable of transporting and deploying 16 helicopters, four landing barges, up to 70 vehicles including 13 battle tanks, and 450 soldiers. The vessel is equipped with a 69-bed hospital and can be used as an amphibious command ship.

    Gen. Nikolai Makarov, the chief of the Russian General Staff, said in August that Russia had plans to buy three or four ships of the same class to be jointly built in Russia.

    ST. PETERSBURG, November 23 (RIA Novosti)

    http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/library/news/russia/2009/russia-091123-rianovosti02.htm
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    Re: Mistral News thread

    Post  Sukhoi37_Terminator on Tue Nov 24, 2009 1:57 pm

    Turk1 wrote:Russian technology is so far behind the West, they don't have any choice but to buy Western. Look at the bright side, at least you won't have an obselete force.

    hey turk!
    don`t you have nothing better to do?
    over the last 5 centuries we have defeated your country every time!!!
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    Re: Mistral News thread

    Post  Vladimir79 on Thu Nov 26, 2009 4:04 am

    Putin will prepare purchase of French Helicopter

    Prime Minister of Russia Vladimir Putin during his visit to France, scheduled for November 27, 2009, to discuss the possibility of buying a French Helicopter type "Mistral". About this newspaper "Businessman" referring to the French military. However, the signing of a contract for the purchase of speech are not going to. Instead, be appointed responsible for the negotiations, perhaps the defense ministers of Russia and France.

    If negotiating the purchase of "Mistral" successful, Russia will be able to ship within two years after the signing of all necessary documents. In addition, Russia also plans to acquire a license to build four such ships. If the purchase of licenses to be agreed upon by France and Russia's parties, the construction of the ships will be able to do and the Baltic Shipyard Admiralty Shipyards, owned by the United Shipbuilding Corporation (USC).

    As the newspaper, no formal barriers to the sale of the ship Russia does not exist. Basically "Mistral" is equipped with a civilian technology, poses no military secrets of France, which makes the ship a means of delivery techniques and landing.

    Meanwhile, against the purchase of Helicopter serves the USC leadership. Top managers of corporations are confident that Russia would spend the money to build their own ships like the type.

    23 November 2009 Mistral arrived in St. Petersburg with a three-day technical visit, after which the Helicopter go to the joint military exercises with Russia on the Baltic Sea. In particular, it will be practiced landing of Russian commanders of Ka-52 "Alligator" on the deck of the ship. It is possible that the result of joint exercises could affect Russia's decision to purchase "Mistral".

    In the case of signing the contract, the construction of a new warship for Russia will be engaged in ship-building company STX France and DCNS. As expected, the ship will be based on civil standards and will be delivered without the weapons and radars. The amount of a possible transaction valued at 400 million euros. Russia plans to use the "Mistral" in the Northern and Pacific fleets.

    Helicopter "Mistral" can be used to transport troops and cargo, as well as for the landing. Standard displacement of ships of type "Mistral" is 16,5 thousand tons, and full - 21,3 thousand tons. The ship is capable of speeds up to 18.8 knots, and range of his voyage of 19,8 thousand miles (31,8 thousand kilometers). "Mistral" can carry 16 heavy or 35 light helicopters. On arms of the French Navy are already two such ships. Currently under construction is one.

    http://www.lenta.ru/news/2009/11/25/mistral/
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    Re: Mistral News thread

    Post  Viktor on Thu Nov 26, 2009 9:46 am

    As we suspected Ka-32/52/60 will be based upon it.
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    Russia yet to decide on French warship deal - Putin!

    Post  Russian Patriot on Fri Nov 27, 2009 10:10 pm

    Russia yet to decide on French warship deal - Putin
    RIA Novosti

    27/11/200917:53

    RAMBOUILLET, November 27 (RIA Novosti) - Russia has yet to make a final decision on whether to buy a Mistral-class helicopter carrier from France, Prime Minister Vladimir Putin said on Friday.

    "No decision has yet been made on the purchase of a Mistral," he said.

    Asked whether he could guarantee the warships in question would not be used against Georgia, Putin said it was up to Russia to decide where or how to use its own weapons.

    Responding to the same question, French Prime Minister Francois Fillon said Mistral ships "mainly perform logistic functions."

    "We are currently in the final stages of negotiations with the Russian government," he said.

    Russia is seeking to buy one of the amphibious assault ships, worth 400-500 million euros, and the Mistral ship arrived in St. Petersburg on Monday to be shown off to military personnel and the public.

    A new warship could be built at the civil STX shipyard in France in partnership with the French naval shipbuilder DCNS.

    French Foreign Minister Bernard Kouchner said on October 1 that France would sell Russia a warship if the two countries were able to reach an agreement. He did not elaborate on what kind of political accord or agreement was involved.

    Russian Deputy Defense Minister Vladimir Popovkin said in late September that Russia was seeking technology to boost its shipbuilding industry by buying the ship.

    He added that Russian shipbuilders strongly opposed the deal.

    A Mistral-class ship is capable of transporting and deploying 16 helicopters, four landing barges, up to 70 vehicles including 13 battle tanks, and 450 soldiers. The vessel is equipped with a 69-bed hospital and can be used as an amphibious command ship.

    Gen. Nikolai Makarov, the chief of the Russian General Staff, said in August that Russia had plans to buy three or four ships of the same class to be jointly built in Russia.

    http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/library/news/russia/2009/russia-091127-rianovosti02.htm
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    Re: Mistral News thread

    Post  Russian Patriot on Mon Nov 30, 2009 11:59 pm

    What kind of ship do the Russian naval infantry need?

    RIA Novosti

    17:54 30/11/2009 MOSCOW. (RIA Novosti military commentator Ilya Kramnik) - November 27 is Russian Marines Day, which has been celebrated since 1996 in commemoration of the establishment of the first regiment of marines formed under a decree by Peter the Great on November 27, 1705.

    The first units designated for boarding and landing operations were formed in Russia in the 17th century - such a unit was stationed on the Oryol, the first Russian warship, which was built during the reign of Tsar Alexei Mikhailovich. Later, during the reign of Peter the Great, the Preobrazhensky and Semenovsky regiments of the Russian army were used as naval infantry during the Azov campaigns. And in 1705, when the Baltic Fleet was formed, the issue of establishing a permanent marine division was raised and resolved.

    In three centuries of history, the Russian naval infantry have distinguished themselves in a number of battles and military engagements - from skirmishes with Swedes during the Great Northern War to the Five Day War in August 2008.

    Today, there are five brigades of the Russian marines and a significant number of separate battalions and companies, including special operations units. The marines' main mission, as before, is conducting shore combat via amphibious landings, but now under contemporary conditions, this mission has been expanded significantly beyond its initial scope.

    What kinds of missions do the Russian naval infantry perform today? Apart from their main missions, which remain amphibious assault, marine units can be used in peacekeeping operations, taking on pirates, special operations in local conflicts in remote theaters of war and in escorting ships with highly valuable cargo and so on.

    To perform these missions, the naval infantry use various types of landing craft, armor, helicopters and other hardware, which generally do not differ from those of the land forces.

    There is currently much discussion in Russia about improving the navy's combat capabilities and specifically those of the marines by purchasing Mistral-class amphibious assault ships from France and building a series of such ships at Russian shipyards.

    On November 23, the Mistral itself arrived for a friendly visit to St. Petersburg, where a large number of Russian naval officers and experts experienced its capabilities and features first hand. On November 27, the Mistral departed for exercises with the Baltic Fleet, during which it was to execute deck landings using Russian helicopters, including Ka-52s.

    The assessment of the ship was to a great degree based on the results of these exercises, but naval experts were already able to make some conclusions after visiting the ship.

    In the opinion of military expert Mikhail Barabanov, the editor-in-chief of Moscow Defense Brief magazine, who personally inspected the ship, the Mistral is a "considered and balanced ship design that meets specific French requirements - an expeditionary ship for prolonged operations in remote waters, including use as a command ship, with minimal requirements for its own 'tactical component.'"

    The ship's designation is determined by its design - to keep costs down, it was built with commercial technology, with significantly lower requirements for durability and is reminiscent of a civilian cruise ship. The Mistral's weaponry is limited to two short-range missile launchers, two 30mm anti-aircraft guns and four heavy machine guns. Consequently, the ship needs a strong escort.

    The Mistral's landing potential is not extensive primarily because of its high standards of crew and troop comfort, which are based on the requirements of prolonged deployment.

    Nevertheless, the Mistral does have considerable capabilities for use as a command ship, floating hospital, base for peacekeeping operations and to provide aid in emergency situations.

    In general, the Mistral design would require extensive modification for Russian Navy use. It would need to provide for the deployment of Russian-made helicopters and to have its landing and air defense capabilities increased, taking into account the high probability that the ship would be used in serious armed conflicts (as compared with the French Navy's the missions).

    Considering the number of likely modifications to the design and their cost, the feasibility of purchasing Mistral-class vessels arises. There are several other ship designs of a similar class and a number of shipbuilding companies that are capable of rapidly adapting an existing design to specific requirements.

    We must not forget about the Russian Project 11780 universal amphibious assault ship design developed by the Nevsky Planning and Design Bureau in the 1980s. It stands to reason that this design is not ready for immediate production and would need extensive updating, but as distinct from the Mistral, this battleship was developed using more strict durability standards and consequently is capable of performing a wider range of operations if properly equipped.
    All in all, it may be advisable to hold a tender among leading foreign and domestic firms with the goal of identifying the project most appropriate for Russian conditions, with subsequent joint modification and implementation. In this regard, cooperation with foreign shipbuilders may be useful for the Russian industry, which would be able to increase its efficiency by making operational universal amphibious assault ships for the navy.

    The opinions expressed in this article are the author's and do not necessarily represent those of RIA Novosti.

    http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/library/news/russia/2009/russia-091130-rianovosti03.htm
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    Vladimir79

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    Re: Mistral News thread

    Post  Vladimir79 on Wed Dec 02, 2009 1:02 pm

    Check these out guys...Ka-52 landing on Mistral!!



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    sepheronx

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    Re: Mistral News thread

    Post  sepheronx on Sun Dec 06, 2009 1:41 am

    Question: Can the KA-52 be equiped with Anti-ship missiles now? Or would it need an avionics upgrade in order to use them?
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    Vladimir79

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    Re: Mistral News thread

    Post  Vladimir79 on Sun Dec 06, 2009 2:42 am

    Not really. None of our Helixes even have that capability. I suppose you could fit a couple Urans on it but it would require completely new fire control, uplinks, and nav-search radar. It isn't worth it since this is supposed to be a ground attack and spec ops bird.
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    sepheronx

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    Re: Mistral News thread

    Post  sepheronx on Sun Dec 06, 2009 8:35 am

    Vladimir79 wrote:Not really. None of our Helixes even have that capability. I suppose you could fit a couple Urans on it but it would require completely new fire control, uplinks, and nav-search radar. It isn't worth it since this is supposed to be a ground attack and spec ops bird.

    Then incase the ship is in danger from another ship, what will they use in order to take down the threat? Would the mistral be equipped with antiship missiles?
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    Vladimir79

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    Re: Mistral News thread

    Post  Vladimir79 on Sun Dec 06, 2009 10:52 am

    sepheronx wrote:

    Then incase the ship is in danger from another ship, what will they use in order to take down the threat? Would the mistral be equipped with antiship missiles?

    Mistral would never operate alone. She would be accompanied by a Kirov BCG and or Slava CG. SSGNs would be around for more firepower I am sure. As more carriers come avialable, they would provide air cover. These ships are supposed to become mobile command centres thanks to their digital control networks.
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    Vladimir79

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    Re: Mistral News thread

    Post  Vladimir79 on Tue Dec 08, 2009 7:03 pm

    Russia to decide on buying Mistral warship by yearend - military

    Russia will decide by the end of 2009 whether to purchase a Mistral class amphibious assault ship from France, the chief of Russia's General Staff said on Tuesday.

    The Russian military earlier announced it was considering buying one of the Mistral class ships, worth 400-500 million euros (around $600-$750 mln), and potentially build three or four vessels of the same class in partnership with the French naval shipbuilder DCNS.

    "We will make a final decision on the Mistral purchase by the end of this year," Gen. Nikolai Makarov said at a news conference.

    A Mistral-class ship is capable of transporting and deploying 16 helicopters, four landing barges, up to 70 vehicles including 13 battle tanks, and 900 soldiers. The vessel is equipped with a 69-bed hospital and can be used as an amphibious command ship.

    Many Russian military and industry experts have questioned the financial and military sense of the purchase.

    Russia's current weapons procurement program through 2015 does not envision construction or purchases of large combat ships, so the possible acquisition of a French Mistral class ship is most likely to happen under the new program for the years up to 2020, which is still under development.

    NIZHNY TAGIL (Urals), December 8 (RIA Novosti)
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    Russian Patriot

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    Re: Mistral News thread

    Post  Russian Patriot on Wed Dec 09, 2009 11:11 pm

    Russian Navy questions whether it needs French warship

    RIA Novosti

    09/12/200917:40

    MOSCOW, December 9 (RIA Novosti) - The Russian Navy is continuing discussions on whether to purchase a French warship, the Russian Defense Ministry said on Wednesday.

    The chief of the General Staff said on Tuesday that Russia would decide by the end of 2009 whether to purchase a Mistral class amphibious assault ship from France.

    "Specialists at different levels are currently studying the Mistral's specifications, as well as infrastructural and basing requirements for this class of warship," a ministry official told RIA Novosti.

    He said training operation, service and maintenance personnel following the ship's integration into the Russian Navy would demand extra attention.

    He also said that a final decision should be based on "a thorough assessment of the effectiveness of [French] technology in the framework of domestic shipbuilding program."

    Deputy Prime Minister Igor Sechin said in late November that Russia could build its own helicopter carrier on a par with the French Mistral-class warship, and that the Defense Ministry could contract the United Shipbuilding Corporation to build it.

    The Russian military earlier announced that it was considering buying one of the Mistral-class ships, worth 400-500 million euros (around $600-$750 mln), and potentially building three or four vessels of the same class in partnership with the French naval shipbuilder DCNS.

    A Mistral-class ship is capable of transporting and deploying 16 helicopters, four landing barges, up to 70 vehicles including 13 battle tanks, and 450 soldiers. The vessel is equipped with a 69-bed hospital and can be used as an amphibious command ship.

    Many Russian military and industry experts have questioned the financial and military sense of the purchase.

    Russia's current arms procurement program through 2015 does not provide for construction or purchases of large warships, so the acquisition of a French warship is more likely under a new program, through 2020, which has yet to be developed.



    http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/library/news/russia/2009/russia-091209-rianovosti02.htm
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    Serbia Forever 2

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    Re: Mistral News thread

    Post  Serbia Forever 2 on Wed Dec 09, 2009 11:23 pm

    I don't think Russia should buy this ship. Russia should use the money on it's air force or air defense. Navy should be the last focus. Or build their own ship, givening jobs to it's people, besides Russis makes better ships than France.

    Oh and Turck, Russia is not worse than West in every sector. Only some in navel sector. Russia overall though is the most powerful country on earth! russia

    Also it's building five new aircraft carriers! How many is Turkey building?

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