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    Russia's enemy countries

    NationalRus
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    Post  NationalRus on Wed Aug 14, 2013 9:38 pm

    i dont have against anybody been here so long he is friend to us, and i dont belive anybody should be banned no mather the views

    and i will also support indians like anyone no exeptions what so ever if they are not against my people and our geopolitcal interest in the world, no mther if indians blacks or KKK members
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    Post  KomissarBojanchev on Wed Aug 14, 2013 11:13 pm

    I more and more have the feeling that NickM's and BTRfan's  main mission on this forum is to advertise their white supremacism in the offtopic section and not to take part in serious discussions about relevant Russian issues and achievments.


    Last edited by KomissarBojanchev on Wed Aug 14, 2013 11:35 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Post  flamming_python on Wed Aug 14, 2013 11:16 pm

    KomissarBojanchev wrote:I more and more have the feeling that NickM's and BTRfan's  main mission on this forum is to advertise their white supremacism in the offtopic section and not to take part in any serious discussion about relevant Russian issues and achievments.
    ...
    ...
    ...
    really?
    Pyrrus
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    Post  Pyrrus on Thu Aug 15, 2013 10:05 am

    going back to the topic, if you please, you mentioned two quite separate kinds of threats: direct, military and mental, connected with - as it was given in the attached article - harmed pride. Of course Polish, Latvian or Georgian people are far from being the real threat for Russia, but mentally, I mean their attitude, they are enemies, as well as the population of many other former Soviet satellites. Some of you scornfully commented the possibility of Israel. But... if we expand hostile actions or potential to intelligence operations as well we can say about Israel as an enemy too. Or at least the opponent, which would be more accurate. China can become Russia's opponent in the future, but I think it'd be more reasonable to focus on today's situation instead of making up vague speculations and looking for enemies where they don't exist for now. The topic is: 'Which of these countries ARE enemies of Russia ?' anyway. As for real and direct threats coming from any country, I can't see any serious. Some may call traditional rivalry with the USA as one. But don't you think this is exposed in Russia by some politicians and in the USA the same way? The problem is with the terrorism because this is homeless, I mean international phenomenon. It is the threat for Russia, current and potential for the future, but it is difficult to say which country it is connected with.
    @Regular: may I know who is that mythic Polish guy here affected by hatred to Arabic people?
    Regular wrote:How regional player like Israel can pose threat to Russia?
    I'm not sure how to put this in to words what You wrote, sorry, not to offend You, but here You sound no less deluded that polish fellow we have here when he talks about Arabs. Maybe it's a fetish thing, not for me to judge. Interesting to see almost same fanatical rhetoric, just a different side of a same coin.
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    Post  BTRfan on Thu Aug 15, 2013 5:55 pm

    Pyrrus wrote:going back to the topic, if you please, you mentioned two quite separate kinds of threats: direct, military and mental, connected with - as it was given in the attached article - harmed pride. Of course Polish, Latvian or Georgian people are far from being the real threat for Russia, but mentally, I mean their attitude, they are enemies, as well as the population of many other former Soviet satellites. Some of you scornfully commented the possibility of Israel. But... if we expand hostile actions or potential to intelligence operations as well we can say about Israel as an enemy too. Or at least the opponent, which would be more accurate. China can become Russia's opponent in the future, but I think it'd be more reasonable to focus on today's situation instead of making up vague speculations and looking for enemies where they don't exist for now. The topic is: 'Which of these countries ARE enemies of Russia ?' anyway. As for real and direct threats coming from any country, I can't see any serious. Some may call traditional rivalry with the USA as one. But don't you think this is exposed in Russia by some politicians and in the USA the same way? The problem is with the terrorism because this is homeless, I mean international phenomenon. It is the threat for Russia, current and potential for the future, but it is difficult to say which country it is connected with.
    @Regular: may I know who is that mythic Polish guy here affected by hatred to Arabic people?
    Regular wrote:How regional player like Israel can pose threat to Russia?
    I'm not sure how to put this in to words what You wrote, sorry, not to offend You, but here You sound no less deluded that polish fellow we have here when he talks about Arabs. Maybe it's a fetish thing, not for me to judge. Interesting to see almost same fanatical rhetoric, just a different side of a same coin.

    The threat of terrorism is over-blown, I am much more concerned with the threat posed by Arab/Islamic demographic colonization in Western lands.

    Note, when I refer to Western Civilization or Western Lands, or when I am discussing the perils facing the West, I usually count Russia as part of that, even though Russia is not strictly Western, it does carry on the traditions of the Western Roman Empire and the Eastern Roman Empire [Byzantine Empire] so it is an extension of Western civilization.


    A few radicals who set off bombs, even if they kill 200-300 soldiers per year, pale in comparison to the threat posed by 80 million Muslims living in Europe, having children, changing the culture, changing the legal institutions, changing the composition and nature of the nation.


    Britain can survive a few radicals detonating bombs, Britain cannot survive becoming a majority Muslim nation. Furthermore, once Muslims are about 15-20% in any one nation, or 50-70% in any one area, the area winds up under de facto Islamic control as the authorities abandon the area and cede control to local Islamic clerics and councils.

    Suppose it is 2025 and Britain is 30% Islamic, they should expect a moderately severe insurgency to begin and possibly even outright civil war. We need only look to Lebanon to see what happens when Muslims increase to near majority levels and then finally become a majority. Islamic refugees were welcomed into Lebanon and once they were close to majority levels there was massive violence, skirmishes, terrorist ambushes, and then once they were finally the majority there was outright civil war.
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    Post  As Sa'iqa on Thu Aug 15, 2013 6:04 pm

    We will see what happens. Paradoxically, the person who benefited the most from the rise of Islam was... Muhammad's archenemy, Abu Sufyan. If he had been just 20 years younger, he would have witnessed his son killing Muhammad's grandson and taking over the caliphate.

    That's what happens if you forcibly convert someone to your religion.

    Anyway I suggest we create another thread, this one doesn't match our discussion topics that well
    Pyrrus
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    Post  Pyrrus on Sat Aug 17, 2013 7:17 pm

    BTRfan wrote:
    The threat of terrorism is over-blown, I am much more concerned with the threat posed by Arab/Islamic demographic colonization in Western lands.

    Note, when I refer to Western Civilization or Western Lands, or when I am discussing the perils facing the West, I usually count Russia as part of that, even though Russia is not strictly Western, it does carry on the traditions of the Western Roman Empire and the Eastern Roman Empire [Byzantine Empire] so it is an extension of Western civilization.


    A few radicals who set off bombs, even if they kill 200-300 soldiers per year, pale in comparison to the threat posed by 80 million Muslims living in Europe, having children, changing the culture, changing the legal institutions, changing the composition and nature of the nation.


    Britain can survive a few radicals detonating bombs, Britain cannot survive becoming a majority Muslim nation. Furthermore, once Muslims are about 15-20% in any one nation, or 50-70% in any one area, the area winds up under de facto Islamic control as the authorities abandon the area and cede control to local Islamic clerics and councils.

    Suppose it is 2025 and Britain is 30% Islamic, they should expect a moderately severe insurgency to begin and possibly even outright civil war. We need only look to Lebanon to see what happens when Muslims increase to near majority levels and then finally become a majority. Islamic refugees were welcomed into Lebanon and once they were close to majority levels there was massive violence, skirmishes, terrorist ambushes, and then once they were finally the majority there was outright civil war.
    You touched the very sensitive but underestimate problem, but I'm not certain if it suits the question given here directly. The example which may illustrate your words is named Kosovo. It may end up this way or another. People in Yugoslavia used to live peacefully together. Not only because of the regime, but also because of the lack of the negative nationalist propaganda, which literary exploded after the collapse of their common country. It doesn't mean the national propaganda is wrong itself. It means, that time it was the kind of propaganda which sent one against another. So your example is right, however I'd limit it to those cultures/religions which we consider as aggressive. The UK can survive with emigrants, unless they respect the law, traditions, or habits of British citizens. There are muslims in the UK, in the very large amount and they can and do live peacefully, however separately. But it isn't illegal.
    Regular
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    Post  Regular on Tue Aug 20, 2013 9:24 am

    Pyrrus wrote: Of course Polish, Latvian or Georgian people are far from being the real threat for Russia, but mentally, I mean their attitude, they are enemies, as well as the population of many other former Soviet satellites.
    Well Russia doesn't act like Your best mate either. It uses it's weight and strength to push it's neighbours around. Believe me - i'm not a fan of my own politics, but Russia is not interested in good relationships too. Still my country is OK with Russia - some political parties were anti-russian but surprisingly Russian money was funding them - You might even think that having grinding between makes it easier to strike some deals and gather population support(still fear of big bad bear is long gone)

    And talking about peoples mentality - why the hell Russian tourists are saying otherwise, that we are brotherly people? There are so many festivals that are literally swarmed with Russians and knowing all that nonsense they have to go to get VISA it's surprising. They are coming here and enjoying their holidays in best resorts we have, our services are targeting to Russian speakers no less that English speakers, they are no 1 tourists in Lithuania and not that cheap bydlo that goes to turkey and drinks vodka till they piss themselves, but we are talking about upper middle class families who act like You would expect from European tourist. Image of Russians went up accordingly.
    For example I might say that Lithuanians dislike Polish more than Russians and Your statement there is a guesswork.
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    Post  Deep Throat on Tue Aug 20, 2013 4:04 pm

    Nikolay STARIKOV wrote a brilliant article yesterday as to how the UK and US created Hitler to contain the Soviet Union .

    http://orientalreview.org/2013/08/19/episode-14-how-adolf-hitler-turned-to-be-a-defiant-aggressor-i/
    NationalRus
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    Post  NationalRus on Tue Aug 20, 2013 5:03 pm

    wont belive anything starikov says on the WW or soviet union, parts he is a great conservative followed the creation of his PVO party, parts he is a massive red apologist, praising stalin everywere he can saying the NKVD was a human and effective organisation, deneing he killed any russian, only traitors, he should focus on modern issues or he will go under as a crazy nutcase
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    Post  Pyrrus on Wed Aug 21, 2013 5:46 pm

    Regular wrote:
    And talking about peoples mentality - why the hell Russian tourists are saying otherwise, that we are brotherly people? There are so many festivals that are literally swarmed with Russians and knowing all that nonsense they have to go to get VISA it's surprising. They are coming here and enjoying their holidays in best resorts we have, our services are targeting to Russian speakers no less that English speakers, they are no 1 tourists in Lithuania and not that cheap bydlo that goes to turkey and drinks vodka till they piss themselves, but we are talking about upper middle class families who act like You would expect from European tourist. Image of Russians went up accordingly.
    For example I might say that Lithuanians dislike Polish more than Russians and Your statement there is a guesswork.
    Judging by your words you are giving the example of Russians coming to the UK for tourism (those rich ones) who are mannerly and educated, then you make the assumption that Lithuanians hate Polish more than Russians, and conclude that MY statement is guesswork. Congratulations! Originally I am from Poland and I know very well about attitude towards Russians in Poland. In Slovakia, Romania, Hungary, Romania too as not long ago I was working in the same company with people from those countries. It isn't the attitude which I like most, as I am half Russian after my father myself. Please, spare me examples about Russian tourists. They have nothing to do with the attitude of Middle European societies towards Russia. However, I must admit, on the level of common people this attitude tends to change.
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    Post  Pyrrus on Wed Aug 21, 2013 5:58 pm

    NationalRus wrote:wont belive anything starikov says on the WW or soviet union, parts he is a great conservative followed the creation of his PVO party, parts he is a massive red apologist, praising stalin everywere he can saying the NKVD was a human and effective organisation, deneing he killed any russian, only traitors, he should focus on modern issues or he will go under as a crazy nutcase
    INMHO Hitler created himself. But writing an alternative, or rather creative history isn't funny? It would be if authors admitted they write SF stories.
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    Post  Regular on Wed Aug 21, 2013 7:18 pm

    Pyrrus wrote:
    Judging by your words you are giving the example of Russians coming to the UK for tourism (those rich ones) who are mannerly and educated, then you make the assumption that Lithuanians hate Polish more than Russians, and conclude that MY statement is guesswork. Congratulations! Originally I am from Poland and I know very well about attitude towards Russians in Poland. In Slovakia, Romania, Hungary, Romania too as not long ago I was working in the same company with people from those countries. It isn't the attitude which I like most, as I am half Russian after my father myself. Please, spare me examples about Russian tourists. They have nothing to do with the attitude of Middle European societies towards Russia. However, I must admit, on the level of common people this attitude tends to change.
    Sorry, I forgot to mention I'm originally from Lithuania and I was talking about Russian tourists there. Not particularly rich ones, but those middle class people who are actually interested in country they are visiting and not drinking alcohol somewhere in Turkey resort:) I have family members who work with tourists and Russians are no.1 customers. And Russia is becoming tourist and work destination for some of us too.
    And for attitudes - there are Russians living in Poland and they don't let themselves to be pushed around. I knew fella from other forum who was living in Warsaw while being Russian and had polish wife.
    What I originally wanted to say is that majority of Lithuanians don't hate Russia and are more concerned about their own country. Of course some actions by Russia are not nice towards us, but hell same can be said about some EU actions. Small are always beaten by the big Very Happy We have good amount of russophobes, but in same time we have people who hate on their own country- it's people and so on. And polish are disliked more because they are very aggressive towards us.
    For example Russians would never do this to us, but for Polish it's quite common.
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    Post  NickM on Wed Aug 21, 2013 8:01 pm

    Regular wrote:
    For example Russians would never do this to us, but for Polish it's quite common.
    Dude you must be a kid . Just because the poles ask you guys to kneel you think they are bad . I am not saying they are good either . In a way they have taken over the UK .

    But you need to see the aggressive behavior of Muslims & especially Indians in the UK .

    Most of them will pick up a fight with you for apparently no reason . They will make the Poles look like some lousy bunch of girl scouts .
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    Post  flamming_python on Wed Aug 21, 2013 8:59 pm

    I don't know who our enemies are. Hopefully no-one for the forseable future.

    But I do know where we have less and less friends, and where we are being viewed through alien, cold, unsympathetic eyes.

    Some Bulgarians 'apologize' to Czechoslovakia
    Russia's enemy countries - Page 8 559149_10151792499603180_1143140517_n

    Some Czechs reply
    Russia's enemy countries - Page 8 537813_10201495662620986_1495823620_n

    Who needs radical Islam and jihadists when you have neighbours such as these..
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    Post  sepheronx on Wed Aug 21, 2013 9:27 pm

    Dude, there are idiots in all countries. It just so happens that these other countries have their issues and many people are split over its history and how they view things today. As well, many of these other countries are part of the "western" sphere of influence, meaning that more or less, these people believe whatever crap comes from their masters mouth. As well, there are indeed various other groups like NGO's who pay people to do stupid acts like this, even in Russia itself.

    Realistic, even if Russia changed and became some sort of uber vunderland for gays, animal rights, marajuana groups, etc etc etc, the western countries will find something ELSE To hate Russia about. Heck, look at Russia's history, it is filled with lots of hate from its neighbouring countries. Thankfully, those countries are usually piss poor in living standards themselves, and barely have the means of defending themselves, that they are nothing but a pest.

    Biggest threat to Russia is obviously the United States in terms of politics. They have NGO's who try to destabilize Russia, and they have so many influential media groups, that are either backed or backing groups like LGBT whom will spread false information regarding Russia and its laws, or how people treat others and try to image them as "less than human" like, and thus, that is the real threat. And guess who eat it up? The uneducated. Yet they will say that Russian's are less educated, even though statistically, that is false.
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    Post  Pyrrus on Wed Aug 21, 2013 11:47 pm

    [quote="Regular"]
    Pyrrus wrote:And polish are disliked more because they are very aggressive towards us.
    For example Russians would never do this to us, but for Polish it's quite common.
    Russia's enemy countries - Page 8 3oy4
    The example you gave is not much representative. Are English football fans representative for British society? Are English skins maybe? Thing you did is called spreading stereotypes. I am not prejudiced towards Lithuanians but I'm afraid you are towards Poles. Complexes of small nation? I hope not. Once again: stadium hooligans are not representative for the whole nation.
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    Post  Pyrrus on Wed Aug 21, 2013 11:55 pm

    flamming_python wrote:I don't know who our enemies are. Hopefully no-one for the forseable future.

    But I do know where we have less and less friends, and where we are being viewed through alien, cold, unsympathetic eyes.

    Some Bulgarians 'apologize' to Czechoslovakia

    Some Czechs reply

    Who needs radical Islam and jihadists when you have neighbours such as these..
    To confirm your point I can give additionally:
    1. from Bulgaria: http://www.dw.de/%D1%82%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%B3%D0%B5%D0%B4%D0%B8%D1%8F%D1%82%D0%B0-%D0%BD%D0%B0-%D0%BF%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%B6%D0%BA%D0%B0%D1%82%D0%B0-%D0%BF%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%BB%D0%B5%D1%82/a-17030923
    2. and the Czech Republic: http://respekt.ihned.cz/fotogalerie/c1-60462030-srpen-1968-nizozemskyma-ocima#gf563807-1-2387480

    it confirms my previous statement about the attitude which Regular calls 'guesswork'
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    Post  Regular on Thu Aug 22, 2013 12:54 am

    Sorry to hijack thread, but I can't not tell You that I disagree with You. I don't have negative views of Polish people, only saying that we consider Poland to be our no 1 enemy- we have some territorial disputes and mutual grudge. So it's not like there is anti-russian union, we are divided, we hate each other no less.
    Football fans or not, those signs, slogans, their acting out when they are in Lithuania is public, is what makes us not to like them. It's common thing. Not to mention their politicians who attack my country for every possible reason while pretending they are protecting minority. Such behaviour doesn't manifest amongst Russian peeps visiting us, we might have differences, but You don't see Russians desecrating our flags, shouting slogans Wilno nasze(Vilnius ours). We have high ranking officers in our army who are ethnic russian too, not to mention our navy- mostly russian guys there. Our government nowadays could be called pro Russian. And yet we are called enemies. Sorry, but it really boils my pot.
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    Post  Pyrrus on Thu Aug 22, 2013 6:28 am

    Regular wrote:Sorry to hijack thread, but I can't not tell You that I disagree with You. I don't have negative views of Polish people, only saying that we consider Poland to be our no 1 enemy- we have some territorial disputes and mutual grudge. So it's not like there is anti-russian union, we are divided, we hate each other no less.
    Football fans or not, those signs, slogans, their acting out when they are in Lithuania is public, is what makes us not to like them. It's common thing. Not to mention their politicians who attack my country for every possible reason while pretending they are protecting minority.  Such behaviour doesn't manifest amongst Russian peeps visiting us, we might have differences, but You don't see Russians desecrating our flags, shouting slogans Wilno nasze(Vilnius ours). We have high ranking officers in our army who are ethnic russian too, not to mention our navy- mostly russian guys there. Our government  nowadays could be called pro Russian. And yet we are called enemies. Sorry, but it really boils my pot.
    OK it really doesn't make sense change personal likes dislikes as the arguments in the discussion. Probably Russian politicians are more skillful than Polish if they make such positive influence on your society. Well, it's time to stop as you mentioned yourself 'it boils your pot' which makes this discussion more personal and emotional than reasonable
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    Post  Ice Man on Mon Jan 27, 2014 8:53 pm

    I apologize for bringing an old thread back to life, I'm Swedish and I served in the Swedish army in the late 1980s. The Swedish perception of Russia and the Russians is based on emotions and as we all know, emotions are very seldom rational. So where does the mistrust of Russia originate from? The history of conflicts between Sweden and Russia, the Cold War fertilized this mistrust. I won't call it hatred, because it is a strong word. The mistrust, or hostile attitude is based on fear. When I was in the army (infantry, antitank) I raised the questions about the hostile attitude toward Soviet Union at that time and later Russia, this was not always appreciated by the commanding officers, especially when I asked "What have they (SU, Russia) done to us?" They couldn't answer that question. People are more loyal to their own perceptions even if the perception is questionable than to their significant others.

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    Post  GarryB on Tue Jan 28, 2014 8:06 am

    The fear mostly comes from the unknown... there was a lot of secrecy and that allowed some (US/UK etc) to fill the vacuum of information with the things they wanted them to think...

    Ironically most of the bad things the west accused the Soviets of the west was already guilty of... anti democratic acts like undermining democracy, creating puppet states that don't reflect the wishes of the people, resource stealing and land grabbing.

    Stalin was portrayed as a venomous land grabber... and while certainly venomous if that were the case why hand Manchuria back to China? Why release Austria from his grip? He kept eastern europe in his control, but wasn't that a little understandable after what had just happened... and the replacement of the Germans with NATO... a new powerful force with nuclear weapons.

    Of course all through the cold war most of what was known about the otherwise largely secret eastern front came from western german soldiers... so we hear that general winter was to blame... mass suicide frontal attacks... it was numbers that did it... despite Japan seeming to deal with rather larger numbers of Chinese forces during the same period... and of course we also hear from the west german soldiers that hitler tied their hands and made stupid decisions... like Stalin didn't make mistakes too.

    Now that the real Soviet records can be examined anything good was initially dismissed as propaganda and anything bad was true...

    The reality is rather different.
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    Post  Ice Man on Tue Jan 28, 2014 4:51 pm

    Woodrow Wilson Center has a huge archive of documents from the Cold War, the military planning of the Warsaw Pact. West (NATO/US) highly overestimated the threats from the East, and in retrospect, we all did. However, they (WP) never moved outside their area of influence.

    I am amused to see how people act to threats, some are real threats, but most of the time threats are imaginary

    The oddest duck in the East was Nicolai Ceausescu; he played an important role in the peace treaty between Israel and Egypt. Opposed the military intervention in Czechoslovakia 1968

    I was not allowed to add the link to Woodrow Wilson Center, but if you Google it and then go to their Digital Archive, you will find the documents about the Cold War. It is interesting to read it, but I haven't read all documents.

    However, the Swedish attitude never changed after the Cold War. Russia is still the arch enemy, and how the Swedes talk about Russia on forums, literature, within the Swedish military, and politicians. Among the academics it is much lesser of the hostile attitude. I spent over eight years in the academic world and I am going back to it a lot in my work

    I am pleased to be talking to Russians and other nationalities and I will do my best to try explain the Swedish policy and attitude.
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    Post  KomissarBojanchev on Tue Jan 28, 2014 5:31 pm

    I think most of that Swedish russophobia is a lot older, namely originating from the northern war and winter war reinforced that. Hence the constant narva circlejerk the Swedish internet warriors do and their "honest civilised finnish and germanic superhumans vs evil propaganda spreading Asian hordes" rhetoric
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    Post  Hannibal Barca on Tue Jan 28, 2014 5:58 pm

    Ice Man wrote:Woodrow Wilson Center has a huge archive of documents from the Cold War, the military planning of the Warsaw Pact. West (NATO/US) highly overestimated the threats from the East, and in retrospect, we all did. However, they (WP) never moved outside their area of influence.

    I am amused to see how people act to threats, some are real threats, but most of the time threats are imaginary

    The oddest duck in the East was Nicolai Ceausescu; he played an important role in the peace treaty between Israel and Egypt. Opposed the military intervention in Czechoslovakia 1968

    I was not allowed to add the link to Woodrow Wilson Center, but if you Google it and then go to their Digital Archive, you will find the documents about the Cold War. It is interesting to read it, but I haven't read all documents.  

    However, the Swedish attitude never changed after the Cold War. Russia is still the arch enemy, and how the Swedes talk about Russia on forums, literature, within the Swedish military, and politicians. Among the academics it is much lesser of the hostile attitude. I spent over eight years in the academic world and I am going back to it a lot in my work

    I am pleased to be talking to Russians and other nationalities and I will do my best to try explain the Swedish policy and attitude.  

    The big question you have to answer is not why Swedes afraid of Russia. This is too normal.
    The tough question is why they are so much allied and trusted with pretty much anyone else.

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      Current date/time is Mon Oct 21, 2019 8:21 am