Actually I would like to hear more from Garry about NZ's and the Zealander's views on how they see Russia and the USA.

First of all let me say I am biased... and not ashamed to admit it either.

I get a ribbing from most of my friends about my views on Russia and the western world.

Culturally New Zealand was very pro Uk understandibly, but when Europe started blocking our imports of dairy products and hugely subsidised their own farming industry we started to look to the US.

That got us ANZUS (Australia/New Zealand/US) which was basically a military cooperation deal, and of course with going to Vietnam with the US and our anti nuke policy things got a little strained and we got cut out of ANZUS.

Needless to say I think most New Zealanders are bewildered by Americas bullying and double standards... they demand tarrifs on our beef exports to protect their farmers, but haven't fully explained why we can produce meat and ship it over there cheaper than they can make it and sell it domestically.

If the US says jump, the Australian and UK leaders say how high and when. Currently we have a national government that is more likely than not to say OK after thinking about whether it might lose them the next election. Under labour we would have asked why.

But we have troops in Afghanistan... we have SAS helping the US forces and we have Army soldiers in the north on a nation building mission. My nephew was there 3-4 years ago and he said that the US soldiers treated then really well and the NZ forces were given US codes, so for rescue missions or support missions the Kiwis got the same priority of resources as they would if they were American forces.
Of course because our conventional troops are not hunting for OBL they don't smash down doors at 2am and murder whole families, they build wells and schools and hospitals so the locals like them and actually help them when taleban elements come and ask the locals for help to get rid of the infidels.

To be honest I think most kiwis are more practical than the Brits and the Aussies and Americans and figure that if Russia wants democracy then the best way to build ties and be friends is through fair and open trade.

Rather than animosity, I think most Kiwis think of Russians as being poor european cousins that they really don't know much about...

I would add most Arab people and regimes have become enemies of Russia over it's unethical and barbaric stance in defending the mass murderer of Syrians. Russia has been almost left with no friends in ME. It will pay a dear price.

The problems in Syria have nothing to do with "barbaric murder" just like the invasion of Iraq had nothing to do with bringing peace and democracy.

The attempts at regime change in Syria is all about sunni muslims wanting to take over from shia muslims.

The reason the US has backed off from direct intervention and regime change is that they know a muslim brotherhood regime that would likely take power would be very anti Israel and anti west... the only benefit they would get is that it would also be anti Iran.

More importantly the Syrian opposition is splintered and I rather doubt any consensus apart from being anti Assad will be possible.

In many ways it is a bit like Afghanistan in that the opposition knew they opposed the Russians and then the Taleban and now the foreigners but when everyone leaves they start fighting amongst themselves and the faction with outside support will generally win... except that more blood will be spilt than the Soviets ever would have, and after 1990 Afghanistan might have ended up like Poland... commie government replaced... perhaps without bloodshed.

msaabneh wrote:I would add most Arab people and regimes have become enemies of Russia over it's unethical and barbaric stance in defending the mass murderer of Syrians. Russia has been almost left with no friends in ME. It will pay a dear price.

Then they are fools. Russia is the one defending Syria from becoming another Libya, Iraq, whatever... whatever problems the Syrians have, they should sort them out themselves. And if you are really going to ignore the fact that the US and EU are taking over the Middle East while using Saudi funding to do so; be my guest. Assad is the real opposition here, not these 'rebels' - they are just pawns in the hands of empire.

It has nothing to do with democracy or even the US or EU, this is western supported but totally Sunni driven anti Shia revolution sweeping the Middle East.

Turkey, Poland are the countries that Russia was at war for a constant period in the past centuries.

Actually it should be Turkey that is afraid, because if the Sunnis succeed in Syria... which moderate muslim country will be next on their sht list?

And when hostility greatly increases towards Israel... watch the US and her toadies jump ship and change sides.

Yes the Imperial and following it, the Cold War period are now all over - and simply put Russia and Turkey have absolutely no reason to be enemies anymore. Both sides realise that they have a lot more to gain in terms of fulfilling their regional interests - if they co-operate with each other. It's true that Turkey opportunistically decided to side with the US, EU and Gulf Arabs in Syria.. but that was mostly because they were afraid of losing influence there when/if Assad falls. Now though, they are going to be left with even bigger problems as a result of this mess, and this could push them into closer partnership with Russia again.

As for Poland - relations have improved, and on a people-to-people level there are very few problems, aside from some nationalists and football hooligans the average Pole and Russian make excellent drinking buddies, and all that malarky. The problem is though is that they are still a rival, or rather the pawn of a rival, and behind the improved fascades and so on - stands out Komorovski's comment a few months back, ahead of the Euro cup in Ukraine/Poland. When the scandal happened with Timoshenko, and many European leaders resolved not to show up at the games; the Polish president wasted no time pointing out that such actions would inevitably push the Ukraine back into the arms of Russia, and should be avoided. So no 20 questions needed in order to ascertain the true dynamics in this region - Poland views Russia as a threat and I suspect it will do until Russia simply gains absolute superiority. A Polish-Russian rivalry cannot last long, and never has - the balance of power is far too much to Russia's side; even considering their EU and US support.

Yes, I remember discussions about the US ABM system in Europe and the Polish leader of the time was basically saying that having this US system in their country would finally free them of the threat of Russia... in other words when they had US troops there Russia would never try anything... which is amusing to me... if Russia really was that way inclined they could easily have absorbed the 'stans back into some for of union with Russia at the head... at one time or another they all looked to Russia for leadership during the 1990s, and of course there was little standing in Russias way if it wanted regime change in Georgia on multiple occasions through the 1990s and more recently.

The big bad land grabbing bear that wants to invade countries and take them over just doesn't exist... and in my mind... considering the countries that hold such fears like Poland and England and the US it is very hipocritcial to call Russians different... in fact the fact that Russia doesn't keep expanding and assimilating like the Borg actually does make them quite different from the Brits and the Americans... but in a good way.

Polish–Russian War
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search

Wars fought between Poland (including the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth) and Russia (including the Soviet Union) include

Name Results
1 Kiev Expedition (1018), Polish victory
2 Livonian War (1558–1583), Polish-Swedish-Dano-Norwegian victory
3 Polish-Muscovite War (1605–1618), Polish victory
4 Smolensk War (1632–1634), Polish victory
5 Russo-Polish War (1654–1667), Russian victory
6 War of the Polish Succession (1733–1735), Indeterminate
7 Bar Confederation (1768–1776), Russian victory
8 Polish–Russian War of 1792, Russian victory
9 Kościuszko Uprising (1794), Russian victory
10 November Uprising (1830–1831), Russian victory
11 January Uprising (1863), Russian victory
12 Polish–Soviet War (1919–1921), Polish victory
13 Soviet invasion of Poland (1939), Russian (Soviet) victory

The Russo-Turkish wars were a series of wars fought between the Russian Empire and the Ottoman Empire during the 16th, 17th, 18th, 19th and 20th centuries. It was one of the longest conflicts in European history.

List of conflicts
Name Results
1 Russo-Turkish War (1568–1570) Russian victory
2 Russo-Turkish War (1571–1574) First phase, Ottoman victory Second phase, Russian victory
3 Russo-Turkish War (1676–1681) Ottoman victory
4 Russo-Turkish War (1686–1700) Russian victory
5 Russo-Turkish War (1710–1711) Ottoman victory
6 Russo-Austrian-Turkish War (1735–1739) Draw at Russian front, Austrian defeat
7 Russo-Turkish War (1768–1774) Russian victory
8 Russo-Turkish War (1787–1792) Russian victory
9 Russo-Turkish War (1806–1812) Russian victory
10 Russo-Turkish War (1828–1829) Russian victory
11 Crimean War (1853–1856) British, French, and Ottoman victory
12 Russo-Turkish War (1877–1878) Russian victory
13 World War I: Caucasus Campaign (1914–1918) Collapse of both empires