Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues


    Yak-130: News

    avatar
    hoom

    Posts : 1994
    Points : 1984
    Join date : 2016-05-06

    Yak-130: News - Page 12 Empty Re: Yak-130: News

    Post  hoom on Sun Jul 01, 2018 3:42 am

    I think there are 2 separate things being conflated here:
    My understanding Yak-130 is capable of working as a 'light fighter' as is ie can carry bombs & rockets, even short range AAMs.
    Russia isn't employing it in that role though, just as a trainer.

    There was a project to produce an armored version as an Su-25 replacement (Su-25s are made in Georgia) but was cancelled because it wasn't able to provide enough protection (the unarmored Yak-130 already has lower weapon load & doesn't have a built-in gun).


    Side point: BMPD had a kinda weird article yesterday suggesting the Mig-AT (original competitor to Yak-130) might be in consideration for production
    apparently as a cheaper to operate (somehow despite being same size as Yak-130) intermediate trainer https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3255479.html
    Edit: I see already being discussed in other thread
    d_taddei2
    d_taddei2

    Posts : 1555
    Points : 1733
    Join date : 2013-05-11
    Location : Scotland UK

    Yak-130: News - Page 12 Empty Re: Yak-130: News

    Post  d_taddei2 on Sun Jul 01, 2018 9:59 am

    Isos wrote:
    Militarov wrote:
    Isos wrote:
    Hole wrote:Belarus is using it as light fighter-bomber.

    Yak-130 got no armor. Which is not good in the CAS role.

    They are offering a version with armour.

    Never went further from proposal actually.

    No one ordered it then why build them ? If a country ordered 50 of them tomorrow they would build them quickly. Armour and more powerfull engines for a trainer aircraft is easy to do.

    They don't have money to spend for everything they invent.    They have the idea and know that it is possible to do. Russian army chosed the su-25 modernization over an armed yak so no need to build it. Unless someone order it and there are lot of countries operating yak-130 so they could end up buying armoured yak 130 for low intensity conflicts that are happening more than conventional ones these days.


    You can't order or even showcase a piece equipment without first designing it. It's clearly a market that is being missed. And I never suggested Russia to purchase. If you take terminator for example they designed and built it showcased it and received orders however in that scenario Russia in the end end up buying some.

    It doesn't take much to bring it to level that will interest foreign buyers and I am sure yak wouldn't say no to sales considering once Russian order has been fulfilled there not going to get much sizeable orders for trainers from other customers so best to look at other options.
    medo
    medo

    Posts : 3666
    Points : 3750
    Join date : 2010-10-24
    Location : Slovenia

    Yak-130: News - Page 12 Empty Re: Yak-130: News

    Post  medo on Sun Jul 01, 2018 10:00 am

    Yak-130 as it is now, is excellent advanced trainer for air force academies and together with unguided bombs and rockets Yak-130 use R-73 air to air missiles and KAB-500Kr TV guided bombs and this is more than enough for academy trainer. When RuAF will have enough of them in academies, than they should buy cca 100 combat capable Yak-130 twin seater with more powerful engine, radar Osa or Kopyo in the nose instead of SOLT-25, we see now in prototype, build inside RWR L-150 Pastel and chaff and flare launchers and new data link communications. They could as well integrate T220 targeting pod. Those combat Yak-130 should not be used in combat, but they should be used for combat units pilots training and to bring as much flying hours as possible. Big SU-30SM, Su-34, Su-35 and Su-57 are big and expensive. Pilots need to fly needed flying hours on them every year, but the rest of flying hours they could do in combat Yak-130, which could simulate all combat situations together with working in data link network. Every military district should have one regiment of them for their combat pilots. Ground simulators are not the same as flying hours.
    AMCXXL
    AMCXXL

    Posts : 335
    Points : 337
    Join date : 2017-08-08

    Yak-130: News - Page 12 Empty Re: Yak-130: News

    Post  AMCXXL on Sun Jul 29, 2018 5:29 pm

    https://vonsolovey.livejournal.com/122319.html

    Last 27th July , three Yak-130 Nº31 (1409) Nº35 (1413) and Nº36 (1414) took off from the plant of Irkutsk towards the West.

    At the begining of the year was received the last batch of the planning of 2017 (Nº05, 06 , 07 , 08) completing the 10 planes of last year

    In June was received the first batch of 4, belonging to the 2018 plan (Nº30-1408 , Nº32-1410, Nº33-1411 , Nº34-1412), and now other three Yak-130, so the last batch Will have 3 more airplanes, to receive the supply planned for 2018, of 10 units.

    With these three planes, the numbrer of Yak-130 manofactured for Russian Air Force adds a total of 106, of the 109 contracted, then only 3 planes remain to complete the total ammount ordered.
    Soon , it will be necessary another new contract  to continue the supply of aircraft Yak-130

    Of the 109 contracted, the first 12 (Serial 0101 to 0202) was manofactured by Sokol-Nizhny Nóvgorod (Serial 1001 until 1417) are being made at Irkutsk under tree contracts (55+12+30), the last for 30 airplanes in 3 years (2016 to 2018).

    Of the 106 delivered, 4 was lost in accidents, so 102 remaining in the airforce.


    Yak-130: News - Page 12 42806910


    Last edited by AMCXXL on Wed Aug 01, 2018 12:36 am; edited 1 time in total
    Vladimir79
    Vladimir79

    Posts : 2925
    Points : 3801
    Join date : 2009-07-10

    Yak-130: News - Page 12 Empty Re: Yak-130: News

    Post  Vladimir79 on Sun Jul 29, 2018 9:09 pm

    The crash rate of this aircraft over the last year or so is very disturbing. It could be suffering from a flight control problem.
    kvs
    kvs

    Posts : 4867
    Points : 4990
    Join date : 2014-09-11
    Location : Canuckistan

    Yak-130: News - Page 12 Empty Re: Yak-130: News

    Post  kvs on Sun Jul 29, 2018 9:46 pm

    Vladimir79 wrote:The crash rate of this aircraft over the last year or so is very disturbing.  It could be suffering from a flight control problem.  

    Its shape is not very aerodynamic so flight control would be an issue.
    Isos
    Isos

    Posts : 4015
    Points : 4005
    Join date : 2015-11-06

    Yak-130: News - Page 12 Empty Re: Yak-130: News

    Post  Isos on Sun Jul 29, 2018 10:20 pm

    kvs wrote:
    Vladimir79 wrote:The crash rate of this aircraft over the last year or so is very disturbing.  It could be suffering from a flight control problem.  

    Its shape is not very aerodynamic so flight control would be an issue.    

    Or young pilots. After all it's a training aurcraft. They are not experienced with flying jets in combat mode. Speed can decrease rapidly and they can lose control.

    Do we know what happened for the 4 crashes ?
    eehnie
    eehnie

    Posts : 2476
    Points : 2487
    Join date : 2015-05-13

    Yak-130: News - Page 12 Empty Re: Yak-130: News

    Post  eehnie on Sun Jul 29, 2018 10:31 pm

    It is necessary to take into account that not only trained pilots are unexperienced. Also trainer pilots have still limited experience with the Yak-130, and the machine is more powerful than previous trainer aircrafts allowing new training options.
    franco
    franco

    Posts : 3254
    Points : 3286
    Join date : 2010-08-18

    Yak-130: News - Page 12 Empty Re: Yak-130: News

    Post  franco on Mon Jul 30, 2018 2:13 am

    It is obviously an Advanced trainer with need for more basic training aircraft. Not sure if the Yak-152 can cover or if two models are needed.
    Vladimir79
    Vladimir79

    Posts : 2925
    Points : 3801
    Join date : 2009-07-10

    Yak-130: News - Page 12 Empty Re: Yak-130: News

    Post  Vladimir79 on Mon Jul 30, 2018 2:26 am

    Isos wrote:

    Or young pilots. After all it's a training aurcraft. They are not experienced with flying jets in combat mode. Speed can decrease rapidly and they can lose control.

    Do we know what happened for the 4 crashes ?

    It is a two seat trainer that comes with an instructor seat, the trainees do not fly alone. It is something like 7 lost aircraft since 2017 with most of them having poor flight handling at low speeds. It is not good for an Advanced Jet Trainer.
    George1
    George1

    Posts : 13876
    Points : 14371
    Join date : 2011-12-22
    Location : Greece

    Yak-130: News - Page 12 Empty Re: Yak-130: News

    Post  George1 on Mon Jul 30, 2018 3:12 am

    do we have any info on next contract for Yak-130s?
    eehnie
    eehnie

    Posts : 2476
    Points : 2487
    Join date : 2015-05-13

    Yak-130: News - Page 12 Empty Re: Yak-130: News

    Post  eehnie on Mon Jul 30, 2018 3:30 am

    Vladimir79 wrote:
    Isos wrote:

    Or young pilots. After all it's a training aurcraft. They are not experienced with flying jets in combat mode. Speed can decrease rapidly and they can lose control.

    Do we know what happened for the 4 crashes ?

    It is a two seat trainer that comes with an instructor seat, the trainees do not fly alone.  It is something like 7 lost aircraft since 2017 with most of them having poor flight handling at low speeds.  It is not good for an Advanced Jet Trainer.  

    The concentration of loses in a period of time habitually is not a sign of technical mistakes. If I remember well there are not loses previous to 2017.

    The high rate of loses of the units purchased by Bangladesh is surely caused by local factors, which tend to be human factors.

    The rate of loses in Russia is very different, and still surely not caused in all the cases by technical failures or mistakes. As commented also the instructors have still limited experience with the aircraft.
    Isos
    Isos

    Posts : 4015
    Points : 4005
    Join date : 2015-11-06

    Yak-130: News - Page 12 Empty Re: Yak-130: News

    Post  Isos on Mon Jul 30, 2018 7:43 am

    franco wrote:It is obviously an Advanced trainer with need for more basic training aircraft. Not sure if the Yak-152 can cover or if two models are needed.

    They said they want to buy mig trainer jets.
    eehnie
    eehnie

    Posts : 2476
    Points : 2487
    Join date : 2015-05-13

    Yak-130: News - Page 12 Empty Re: Yak-130: News

    Post  eehnie on Mon Jul 30, 2018 10:10 am

    Isos wrote:
    franco wrote:It is obviously an Advanced trainer with need for more basic training aircraft. Not sure if the Yak-152 can cover or if two models are needed.

    They said they want to buy mig trainer jets.

    Not exactly.
    George1
    George1

    Posts : 13876
    Points : 14371
    Join date : 2011-12-22
    Location : Greece

    Yak-130: News - Page 12 Empty Re: Yak-130: News

    Post  George1 on Tue Jul 31, 2018 11:59 pm

    "31", "35", "36"

    Yak-130: News - Page 12 41901687390_6b0c5214da_o

    Yak-130: News - Page 12 42994314504_4d04f7f3c9_o

    Yak-130: News - Page 12 42806950935_634e57b5ea_o

    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3289846.html
    Nibiru
    Nibiru

    Posts : 200
    Points : 202
    Join date : 2018-05-22

    Yak-130: News - Page 12 Empty Re: Yak-130: News

    Post  Nibiru on Wed Aug 29, 2018 4:40 am

    is it possible to modify Yak-130 to match the capabilities of the Korean T-50 to compete with it on the global market?
    GunshipDemocracy
    GunshipDemocracy

    Posts : 4913
    Points : 4943
    Join date : 2015-05-17
    Age : 77
    Location : fishin on Stalin´s Strait between Mexico and Canada

    Yak-130: News - Page 12 Empty Re: Yak-130: News

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Wed Aug 29, 2018 4:18 pm

    Nibiru wrote:is it possible to modify Yak-130 to match the capabilities of the Korean T-50 to compete with it on the global market?

    not sure what do you mean by to modify? for whom? it is designed to meet Russian AF specs. Taing into account its Italian M-346 derivative Israeli, Italian or Polish one.
    If you mean speed? Yak 133 never materialize d for a reason - was not needed.

    Hongdu L-15 is actually Yak 230 in supersonic version lol1 lol1 lol1
    Hole
    Hole

    Posts : 2333
    Points : 2331
    Join date : 2018-03-24
    Age : 43
    Location : Merkelland

    Yak-130: News - Page 12 Empty Re: Yak-130: News

    Post  Hole on Wed Aug 29, 2018 4:27 pm

    Yak-130 has already been sold to Algeria, Belarus, Bangladesh, Myanmar and Syria.
    avatar
    william.boutros

    Posts : 76
    Points : 78
    Join date : 2015-08-13

    Yak-130: News - Page 12 Empty Re: Yak-130: News

    Post  william.boutros on Wed Aug 29, 2018 8:44 pm

    Nibiru wrote:is it possible to modify Yak-130 to match the capabilities of the Korean T-50 to compete with it on the global market?

    ًA supersonic trainer may not be of added value, where will it be used? A single engine fighter-bomber in the F-16 weight could be a good option for many countries. I suspect the reason for not developing it is to prevent it from eating the sales of Su-27-30-35 in specific markets. The latter's development being more important to the Russian Armed Forces.


    GarryB
    GarryB

    Posts : 22326
    Points : 22870
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Yak-130: News - Page 12 Empty Re: Yak-130: News

    Post  GarryB on Thu Aug 30, 2018 8:40 am

    It takes a lot of fuel and a lot of time to accelerate to supersonic speed... most aircraft spend very little time at supersonic speed... it is most useful for interceptors, but most of the time with a full weapons load most aircraft are subsonic most of the time...

    Flying straight and level in full AB makes you an easy target for long range IR guided missiles like R-27ET...

    Besides... if you want to make it a light fighter then you need a complete EW package too which makes it expensive or weak if you choose to not fit it.

    For strike missions a belly mounted targeting pod and iron bombs from medium altitude would be useful with minimal alterations... but you could equally hang such a targeting pod from a medium transport type with longer range and enormous potential payload...

    d_taddei2
    d_taddei2

    Posts : 1555
    Points : 1733
    Join date : 2013-05-11
    Location : Scotland UK

    Yak-130: News - Page 12 Empty Re: Yak-130: News

    Post  d_taddei2 on Thu Sep 06, 2018 11:44 pm

    Yak-130 is perfectly capable of being light multirole fighter if equipment is fitted to it. A low cost cheap to run in comparison to su family if you're need is for such a light fighter then why not. It all depends on your needs and threat. I suspect that there is a market for it in South America and Africa. It's ideal for patrolling with recce pods saves you using up flying hours or more expensive aircraft. Of course if you want the next step up u have mig-29m2 then onto mig-35 su family etc. Currently Russia is missing the market for this category.

    And as Gary says if you wanted to deliver a huge payload for cheap an IL-76, An-12, An-22 kitted out with svp systems etc you now h avec a hideous amount of cheap bombs in the air with a 3-5m accuracy. Imagine what a An-22 could do with that system. You could even put it on lighter aircraft such as An-24/26, An-32, An-74 if you really wanted any cargo plane really. Would have been useful in Iraq and Syria
    GarryB
    GarryB

    Posts : 22326
    Points : 22870
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Yak-130: News - Page 12 Empty Re: Yak-130: News

    Post  GarryB on Fri Sep 07, 2018 9:48 am

    Yak-130 is perfectly capable of being light multirole fighter if equipment is fitted to it.

    The real problem is that some people think it would be a good fighter... and it likely would merely be band aide solution.

    Keep in mind that while being relatively light and cheap compared with an expensive medium or heavy fighter, and also relatively manouverable, it would also be largely blind and short ranged and unable to keep up with other aircraft.

    Against strike aircraft with target information coming from ground control or AWACS, it could fly at medium altitude at high subsonic speed with some R-77s and some R-73s... so basically a MiG-29S armament, but without the radar and without the self defence avionics... you could send it out to engage enemy bombers and indeed incoming cruise missiles... but actually targeting those would not be 100% easy or reliable... the point is that most of the targets wont fire back.

    You could equip it with light bombs, or against targets with no MANPADS you could use rockets and bombs, but really most of the time you would want to use it for what it was designed for... training pilots.

    You could consider it both a trainer jet and a rather well armed and fast Super Tucano if you want, but it is no MiG-21 by any measure.

    You could rip out the two engines and replace them with a single RD-33 with 9 ton thrust and get something that is supersonic... and fast accelerating and use the extra power to add weight for a new decent nose mounted radar, and extra fuel, as well as an onboard self defence avionics suite... but I am afraid your cheap little fighter will get bigger and heavier and rather more costly and also less suited to training.

    I would say starting with a good engine as a basis and then designing from scratch a simple light fast aircraft would be a better basis.... normally in design things are pretty critical... too big an engine you get an aircraft that is fast and able to manouver, but with short legs... not enough fuel and again a short legged fighter... no radar and no avionics, you have a blind sitting duck in the presence of enemy fighters...

    As I mentioned it could be used as a Super Tucano in the light strike role where there is little to no opposition, but the other option could be to use them as manned fighter drones... ie they fly with fighters... perhaps at much higher altitude and operating closer to the enemy with no radar emissions... and launch missiles at approaching enemy aircraft and once they have no more missiles they can withdraw with the larger fighters still fully armed, but they detected the targets and guided the missiles the Yaks launched, ready for an engagement fully armed.

    It would require good coordination, but the small light aircraft would be up to it... the real problem is that such small aircraft do not offer optimal launch parameters for missiles.... they can't fly that high or that fast... perhaps carrying 6 R-37Ms at 10km altitude at 800km/h, which might give them 200km range, which would still be useful enough...

    It's ideal for patrolling with recce pods saves you using up flying hours or more expensive aircraft. Of course if you want the next step up u have mig-29m2 then onto mig-35 su family etc. Currently Russia is missing the market for this category.

    I don't think there really is a lighter fighter category... a Gripen type entry, would just be a slightly smaller slightly lighter and slightly less capable MiG-35... I would say keep two engines and go for the MiG-29SMT or MiG-29M2 for reduced price fighter that would be effective in most situations and has the upgrade potential to be actually rather capable.

    In fact having 30-50 MiG-29M2s... buy a new targeting pod like Sapsan... perhaps 10 of them and fit those ten aircraft with a new AESA radar so it can operate as a more expensive but also more capable leader... buying a carrier based AWACS platform would also benefit most small airforces as it provides better command and control with a better view...

    And as Gary says if you wanted to deliver a huge payload for cheap an IL-76, An-12, An-22 kitted out with svp systems etc you now h avec a hideous amount of cheap bombs in the air with a 3-5m accuracy. Imagine what a An-22 could do with that system. You could even put it on lighter aircraft such as An-24/26, An-32, An-74 if you really wanted any cargo plane really. Would have been useful in Iraq and Syria

    You could even add a Glonass guidance system for the bombs rather cheaply and just fly a strike aircraft with radar operating to find the ground target and work out their ground coordinates and set the guidance systems on the transport planes and shove them out the back door at about the right time... no modifications needed.
    George1
    George1

    Posts : 13876
    Points : 14371
    Join date : 2011-12-22
    Location : Greece

    Yak-130: News - Page 12 Empty Re: Yak-130: News

    Post  George1 on Fri Oct 12, 2018 2:47 am

    VKS of Russia received the next three Yak-130 aircraft

    As of October 8, 2018, three new Yak-130 combat training aircraft transferred to the Russian Aerospace Force reportedly flew from Irkutsk to the duty station. The aircraft built by the Irkutsk Aviation Plant (IAZ) of Irkut Corporation PJSC have red side numbers "37" and, presumably, "38" and "39" (estimated serial numbers are 1415, 1416 and 1417).

    Yak-130: News - Page 12 6025970_original
    One of the three new Yak-130 combat training aircraft transferred by the VKS of Russia built by the Irkutsk Aviation Plant of PJSC "Irkut Corporation" (tail number "37 red") during a stopover landing in Tolmachevo (Novosibirsk), 08.10.2018 (c) Yuri Shelukhov / vk.com

    These three Yak-130 aircraft were built by IAP in 2018, and, apparently, are the latest machines of this type, manufactured under the contract for the supply of the Russian VKS until the end of 2018, 30 Yak-130 airplanes, concluded by the Russian Ministry of Defense in April 2016. The first ten Yak-130 aircraft under this contract (cars with red side numbers from "40" to "49" - serial numbers from 1308 to 1317) were transferred to the VKS in October-December 2016 and entered the training aviation base in Armavir ( Krasnodar Territory), providing training for the restored Krasnodar Higher Military Aviation School of Pilots (KVVAUL) named after AK Serov. In May-July 2017, another six Yak-130 airplanes of 2017 with red side numbers "50", "100", "01", "02", "03" and "04" were transferred to Armavir in 2017 respectively, 1319, 1320, 1318, 1401, 1402, 1403).

    However, then the transfer of the Yak-130 aircraft to the VKS of Russia was suspended from the IAP at the end of July 2017 and was resumed only in 2018, when the VKS in March 2018 received four aircraft built in 2017 with serial numbers from 1404 to 1407 (red side numbers " 05 "," 06 "," 07 "and" 08 "), and in June 2018 received four more aircraft with red side numbers" 30 "," 32 "," 33 "and" 34 "(serial numbers, respectively 1408, 1409, 1410 and 1412). Presumably, the suspension of the transfer of cars in 2017 was associated with the ongoing modifications of the aircraft of this type after two flight incidents with the Yak-130 VCS on the same day on June 21, 2017.

    In July 2018, IAZ transferred three more Yak-130 airplanes with red side numbers "31", "35" and "36" (the estimated serial numbers, respectively, 1411, 1413 and 1414) to IAC, and now the last three cars have been handed over.

    With the transfer of these three Yak-130 aircrafts to the Russian Federation, the total number of production vehicles of this type delivered to the Russian Ministry of Defense reached 109 units - of which 12 of the first two series were built at Sokol Nizhny Novgorod Aviation Plant, and another 97 Irkutsk Aviation Plant.

    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3374851.html
    George1
    George1

    Posts : 13876
    Points : 14371
    Join date : 2011-12-22
    Location : Greece

    Yak-130: News - Page 12 Empty Re: Yak-130: News

    Post  George1 on Fri Oct 12, 2018 2:52 am

    These planes were the last of the orders above (97+12). I think Yak-130 number in service must be 105 because 4 have been lost to accidents (if i am right)
    avatar
    Labrador

    Posts : 130
    Points : 130
    Join date : 2018-09-24

    Yak-130: News - Page 12 Empty Re: Yak-130: News

    Post  Labrador on Mon Oct 15, 2018 2:07 pm

    George1 wrote:These planes were the last of the orders above (97+12). I think Yak-130 number in service must be 105 because 4 have been lost to accidents (if i am right)
    And about 120 L-39C

    Sponsored content

    Yak-130: News - Page 12 Empty Re: Yak-130: News

    Post  Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Thu Nov 14, 2019 6:49 pm