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    Yak-130: News

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    marcellogo

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    Re: Yak-130: News

    Post  marcellogo on Tue Nov 29, 2016 9:47 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    The Yak-130 is to the Su-PAK-FA just what the L-39 was for the MiG.23. Even they have close weight relations.

    Which is what I said... the L39 is inadequate to train pilots that will be flying Su-35s or MiG-35s let alone PAK FAs.


    No, the Yak-130 means not to introduce a new training step. The introduction of the Yak-130 is to replace the L-39, which will be totally retired in the short term.

    It shifts the step up and leaves a gap between propeller trainer and jet trainer that can be filled by the cheaper simpler SR-10.

    Russia would not do it if they would have the replacement of the L-39 in the stage of development where the SR-10 is today.

    The L39s are filling a space that the Yak-130 is clearly not suitable to fill unless they develop a new simpler cheaper to operate Yak-130... which they wont.

    As explained in my previous comment the introduction of the SR-10 only would mean to reduce the number of orders of the Yak-130.

    No. What it would mean is fewer Yak-130 losses as the jump from propeller to Yak-130 can have a middle step to ease the trainee pilot from a propeller driven aircraft to a sophisticated twin engine trainer like the Yak-130.

    The Yak-130 is capable of training sophisticated attack tactics without needing air time on expensive twin seat operational aircraft.

    They would likely build rather more Yak-130s as the aircraft in training squadrons using SR-10s instead would be vastly outnumbered by the Yak-130s used in operational units for weapons training on the cheap... the digital FBW flight control systems of the Yaks allow the crew to dial up any sort of flight performance they like so for attacking ground targets with real or captive weapons could be done on the cheap without tying up front line aircraft.

    I really do not know where you see the technological floor for the Russian Armed Forces.

    For export. It would make no sense for the Russian military to convert light propeller trainers to do something the Su-25 could already do rather better.

    Of course for border patrol they might consider a conversion of a prop aircraft for the role to replace the SM-92 pictured above with rocket pods and machine guns and dumb bombs.
    An hint: let's gave a look how we in Italy intend to use the twin...
    SF-260 with propjet, M-345 and only in the end M-346.
    Each one of them would do a parft of the Syllabus of actual MB-339CD but most part of 346 one would be taken away from operative plane OCU hours.
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    George1

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    Re: Yak-130: News

    Post  George1 on Wed Dec 21, 2016 3:39 am

    The last three Yak-130 program in 2016 are going to Armavir

    According to a colleague vonsolovey, on December 20th 2016, from Irkutsk to Armavir flew three combat training aircraft Yak-130, built by the Irkutsk aviation plant (IAP) PJSC "Corporation" Irkut "and sent to VKS Russia - planes with the red hull numbers "47" (serial number 1315), "48" (serial number 1316) and "49" (serial number 1317). Planes departed with a stopover in Novosibirsk (Tolmachevo), Chelyabinsk (Shagol) and Borisoglebsk, and should arrive in the 200th training air base in Armavir (Krasnodar region), which provides training to Krasnodar higher military aviation school (KVVAUL) the name of AK Serov.

    These are the last three of Yak-130 (eighth, ninth and tenth), built under the program in 2016 as part of the last contract for the supply of VKS Russia, before the end of 2018, with 30 Yak-130, signed by the Ministry of Defense of Russia and PAO "Corporation Irkut" inApril 2016. Previously, on October 22, 2016 VKS Russia got the first four Yak-130, made under the contract - planes with the red hull numbers "40" (serial number 1308), "41" (serial number 1309), "42" (serial number 1310) and "43" (serial number 1311), and November 26, 2016 from Irkutsk flew three combat training aircraft Yak-130 with red hull numbers "44" (serial number 1312), "45" (serial No. 1313) and "46" (serial number 1314). All these machines are also made flight of the 200th air base training in Armavir.

    With the transfer to VKS Russia of these three Yak-130 emitted in Armavir on December 20th, the total number of production vehicles of this type are set by the Ministry of Defence of Russia has reached 89 units -
    12 of them the first two series were built by JSC "Nizhny Novgorod Aircraft Plant" Sokol " and even 77 at the Irkutsk aviation plant. Currently, as part of 209th training air base in Borisoglebsk are 42 Yak-130 aircraft (including eight virtually unexploited Nizhny Novgorod construction machinery), and as part of the 200th training air base in Armavir considering of airplanes emitted to December 20, the number of Yak-130 reaches 40 (previously received from November 2014 to January 2016 30 aircraft have red hull numbers from "51" to "80"). Training flights of cadets at the Yak-130 aircraft Armavir were launched in May 2016.







    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2335810.html


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    George1

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    Re: Yak-130: News

    Post  George1 on Wed Dec 21, 2016 3:43 am

    89 production Yak-130s with the last ones. 82 are in the training bases mentioned above. The rest 7?


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    franco

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    Re: Yak-130: News

    Post  franco on Wed Dec 21, 2016 8:32 am

    George1 wrote:89 production Yak-130s with the last ones. 82 are in the training bases mentioned above. The rest 7?

    3 lost in crashes, 1 at Voronezh, 1 at Ahtubinsk and 2 at Lipetsk
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    George1

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    Re: Yak-130: News

    Post  George1 on Wed Dec 21, 2016 10:32 am

    franco wrote:
    George1 wrote:89 production Yak-130s with the last ones. 82 are in the training bases mentioned above. The rest 7?

    3 lost in crashes, 1 at Voronezh, 1 at Ahtubinsk and 2 at Lipetsk  

    thanks! you are great!


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    Isos

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    Re: Yak-130: News

    Post  Isos on Wed Dec 21, 2016 12:44 pm

    What's their price ? 82 is not bad at all, the modernization is going fast.

    How much of them do they need ? Russia has like 1000+ L-39, they won't replace them all.
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    eehnie

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    Re: Yak-130: News

    Post  eehnie on Wed Dec 21, 2016 4:00 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    The Yak-130 is to the Su-PAK-FA just what the L-39 was for the MiG.23. Even they have close weight relations.

    Which is what I said... the L39 is inadequate to train pilots that will be flying Su-35s or MiG-35s let alone PAK FAs.


    No, the Yak-130 means not to introduce a new training step. The introduction of the Yak-130 is to replace the L-39, which will be totally retired in the short term.

    It shifts the step up and leaves a gap between propeller trainer and jet trainer that can be filled by the cheaper simpler SR-10.

    Russia would not do it if they would have the replacement of the L-39 in the stage of development where the SR-10 is today.

    The L39s are filling a space that the Yak-130 is clearly not suitable to fill unless they develop a new simpler cheaper to operate Yak-130... which they wont.

    As explained in my previous comment the introduction of the SR-10 only would mean to reduce the number of orders of the Yak-130.

    No. What it would mean is fewer Yak-130 losses as the jump from propeller to Yak-130 can have a middle step to ease the trainee pilot from a propeller driven aircraft to a sophisticated twin engine trainer like the Yak-130.

    The Yak-130 is capable of training sophisticated attack tactics without needing air time on expensive twin seat operational aircraft.

    They would likely build rather more Yak-130s as the aircraft in training squadrons using SR-10s instead would be vastly outnumbered by the Yak-130s used in operational units for weapons training on the cheap... the digital FBW flight control systems of the Yaks allow the crew to dial up any sort of flight performance they like so for attacking ground targets with real or captive weapons could be done on the cheap without tying up front line aircraft.

    I really do not know where you see the technological floor for the Russian Armed Forces.

    For export. It would make no sense for the Russian military to convert light propeller trainers to do something the Su-25 could already do rather better.

    Of course for border patrol they might consider a conversion of a prop aircraft for the role to replace the SM-92 pictured above with rocket pods and machine guns and dumb bombs.

    This makes not sense. The replacement of the previous generation of specific trainers (Yak-52 and L-39) was planned and solved by two contests which winners were the Yak-130 and the Yak-152 (the SR-10 takes part in the second losing to the Yak-152). It means that it was planned the purchase of enough units of both (Yak-152 and Yak-130) to cover the entire needs of specific trainers for Russia.

    This means that initially (and today still), it was planned to cover the entire needs of specific trainers with both aircrafts. The Yak-130 being for the Su-PAK-FA what the L-39 was for the MiG-23 means that the Yak-130 was designed for the exact same role of the L-39, but at the current scale.

    Taking into account that the total needs changed not, a late introduction of the SR-10 means a production lower than planned of the total number of the new specific trainers (Yak-152 and Yak-130). The SR-10 is more expensive and lost the contest with tha Yak-152, then obviously the planned orders of the Yak-152 will not be affected by its introduction. To replace planned units of Yak-152 by SR-10 would make more expensive the training system. This system only can become cheaper with the introduction of the SR-10 if this aircraft replaces part of the planned units of Yak-130. A late introduction of the SR-10 would affect only to the planned presence of the Yak-130, reducing its presence, cutting earlier its production and affecting to its scale economies.

    In fact the contractors introducting the SR-10 are promoting a second contest vs the Yak-130, after to lose the first vs the Yak-152. You can see how they are comparing the SR-10 to the Yak-130, not with other aircrafts. This is the reality.

    Of course Russia will adopt and purchase only what they think it is the best, but at same time, will not be rude with other emerging projects to damage not their prospect for export. We see it many times in the last years.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Yak-130: News

    Post  GarryB on Fri Dec 23, 2016 10:13 am

    Tests have criteria and specifications.

    These criteria and specs are set based on certain factors.

    Replacing two existing aircraft with two new aircraft respectively is perfectly normal.

    The problem is that during the transition from the two old aircraft types to the two new aircraft types they might find that actually having three types might be useful.

    That is the benefit of operational experience.

    For example having experience where some Yak-130s have been lost... if it is determined that the transition from single engine prop aircraft to twin jet trainer leads to a gap where pilots are having problems then one option for a solution could be to add another step with an aircraft like the SR-10 where the troubled period is flown on a more expendable aircraft that is cheaper to operate and also replace.

    The Yak-130 will be used for training new pilots, but will also be deployed to operational airfields for refresher training to reduce hours on more expensive types.

    If they decide to buy some SR-10s or something like them to fill the role of the L-39 in the current setup where it is a second aircraft type for the pilots to operate before they get into the more sophisticated Yak-130 then that is actually a good thing if it means they save some money and preserve their new aircraft for longer.


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    eehnie

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    Re: Yak-130: News

    Post  eehnie on Fri Dec 23, 2016 6:25 pm

    GarryB wrote:Tests have criteria and specifications.

    These criteria and specs are set based on certain factors.

    Replacing two existing aircraft with two new aircraft respectively is perfectly normal.

    The problem is that during the transition from the two old aircraft types to the two new aircraft types they might find that actually having three types might be useful.

    That is the benefit of operational experience.

    For example having experience where some Yak-130s have been lost... if it is determined that the transition from single engine prop aircraft to twin jet trainer leads to a gap where pilots are having problems then one option for a solution could be to add another step with an aircraft like the SR-10 where the troubled period is flown on a more expendable aircraft that is cheaper to operate and also replace.

    The Yak-130 will be used for training new pilots, but will also be deployed to operational airfields for refresher training to reduce hours on more expensive types.

    If they decide to buy some SR-10s or something like them to fill the role of the L-39 in the current setup where it is a second aircraft type for the pilots to operate before they get into the more sophisticated Yak-130 then that is actually a good thing if it means they save some money and preserve their new aircraft for longer.

    I do not think the lose of some Yak-130 has been caused by this reason. The pilots are going from the Yak-52 to the L-39 to the Yak-130 since the begin of the introduction of the Yak-130, so this supposed gap is not real. In fact the opposite argument can be made. It is possible to argue that the use of both (L-39 and Yak-130) in the second training step leads to lower experience with the Yak-130.

    The alone role of the L-39 today is to be used until to be exhausted. If the trained pilots use the three specific training aircrafts is because it is considered good that every trained pilot can be trained in the Yak-130. This is why all the pilots are using the three models.

    The promotors of the SR-10 are trying to expose some advantage of their aircraft over the Yak-130, but it is also necessary to take into account the damages that the introduction of this aircraft can cause in the prospect of the Yak-130, even in its export prospect.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Yak-130: News

    Post  GarryB on Sat Dec 24, 2016 8:59 am

    Pilots need to learn to fly all sorts of aircraft... when leaving training they will enter service units that will have them flying aircraft from the PAK FA, to the Ka-52, to the MiG-35 or Su-35, or Il-476, or the ANSAT helo.

    Being able to handle different types is a must, and with proper training they should be able to transition into different types.

    The important thing is to examine what they are learning and make sure they learn it in the most efficient way.

    With feedback from the pilots and instructors should be considered above any marketing from aircraft makers... but certainly a middle aircraft might be considered useful... and a simple cheap jet trainer would be a useful asset locally and for export.


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    Militarov

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    Re: Yak-130: News

    Post  Militarov on Sat Dec 24, 2016 2:20 pm

    GarryB wrote:Pilots need to learn to fly all sorts of aircraft... when leaving training they will enter service units that will have them flying aircraft from the PAK FA, to the Ka-52, to the MiG-35 or Su-35, or Il-476, or the ANSAT helo.

    Being able to handle different types is a must, and with proper training they should be able to transition into different types.

    The important thing is to examine what they are learning and make sure they learn it in the most efficient way.

    With feedback from the pilots and instructors should be considered above any marketing from aircraft makers... but certainly a middle aircraft might be considered useful... and a simple cheap jet trainer would be a useful asset locally and for export.

    Commonly pilot is flying only one, max two types of aircraft at the time. When fighter pilot reaches certain age where he is not suitable anymore for fighter, he gets transfered to either transport fleet or helicopter (later being less common), also pilots sometimes, those that show health issues get transfered to less demanding machines mostly in transport fleet. In certain air forces pilots get to fly advanced trainers and turboprops for "fun" to keep them in shape as much as its possible as flight hours on their main fighter is extremly expensive.

    But one pilot, at one moment being trained and flying on 3-4 different machines, no. Not even in the poorest airforces there are. That doesnt happen, especially not in the form of mixing fixed wing and helicopters.
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    eehnie

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    Re: Yak-130: News

    Post  eehnie on Sat Dec 24, 2016 5:27 pm


    Also helicopters have their own training units. Mi-2 and Mi-Ansat in the case of Russia.
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    Re: Yak-130: News

    Post  Militarov on Sat Dec 24, 2016 8:10 pm

    eehnie wrote:
    Also helicopters have their own training units. Mi-2 and Mi-Ansat in the case of Russia.

    That is normal, helicopter pilots are being separated from other pilots during selection on AF college. Mostly those that do not meet all the requirements for fighter pilots.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Yak-130: News

    Post  GarryB on Sun Dec 25, 2016 10:01 pm

    But one pilot, at one moment being trained and flying on 3-4 different machines, no. Not even in the poorest airforces there are. That doesnt happen, especially not in the form of mixing fixed wing and helicopters.

    I was not suggesting each pilot would flit from unit to unit flying every type of aircraft in the Russian air force.

    The only pilots that fly a lot of different types are test pilots and they are a special exception.

    What I am saying is that flight training starts on spinning mechanical devices that look like they are circus rides. Then they move to actual light aircraft and then jet trainers and will include simulators now too but at the end of the flight training they can end up in any air unit depending upon various things that might have become clear during training. they don't just assign people at random to fill roles as they come up, but when you start training you will have certain expectations and wants... whether you get that assignment or not depends on your performance and probably attitude.

    Also helicopters have their own training units. Mi-2 and Mi-Ansat in the case of Russia.

    They do, but do you think they just skip basic flight training? Would twin jet training be a waste of time for them?

    Lots of front line units keep jet trainers as hacks for cheap hours and also can be used for transporting one person if need be.


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    eehnie

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    Re: Yak-130: News

    Post  eehnie on Sun Dec 25, 2016 11:21 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    But one pilot, at one moment being trained and flying on 3-4 different machines, no. Not even in the poorest airforces there are. That doesnt happen, especially not in the form of mixing fixed wing and helicopters.

    I was not suggesting each pilot would flit from unit to unit flying every type of aircraft in the Russian air force.

    The only pilots that fly a lot of different types are test pilots and they are a special exception.

    What I am saying is that flight training starts on spinning mechanical devices that look like they are circus rides. Then they move to actual light aircraft and then jet trainers and will include simulators now too but at the end of the flight training they can end up in any air unit depending upon various things that might have become clear during training. they don't just assign people at random to fill roles as they come up, but when you start training you will have certain expectations and wants... whether you get that assignment or not depends on your performance and probably attitude.

    Also helicopters have their own training units. Mi-2 and Mi-Ansat in the case of Russia.

    They do, but do you think they just skip basic flight training? Would twin jet training be a waste of time for them?

    Lots of front line units keep jet trainers as hacks for cheap hours and also can be used for transporting one person if need be.

    I'm pretty sure that helicopter piltos avoid the jet training phase. They have zero need of if and is not a cheap option for them.
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    franco

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    Re: Yak-130: News

    Post  franco on Mon Mar 20, 2017 9:16 pm

    Video about the Yak-130 but a lot of nice aircraft shots;

    https://www.youtube.com/embed/UN6_aZGqD4M?rel=0&wmode=transparent
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    George1

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    Re: Yak-130: News

    Post  George1 on Fri Apr 07, 2017 12:41 am

    Krasnodar Training base. Armavir



























    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2534852.html




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    eridan

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    Re: Yak-130: News

    Post  eridan on Fri Apr 07, 2017 10:02 am

    White nose is there because there's something inside it? (besides possible speed measure sensor) Or just for aesthetics?
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    George1

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    Re: Yak-130: News

    Post  George1 on Sat May 20, 2017 3:40 pm

    The first three Yak-130 for 2017

    On May 18, 2017, three new Yak-130 training and combat aircrafts built by the Irkutsk Aviation Plant (IAZ) of PJSC Irkut Corp. flew from Irkutsk to the European part of Russia.The cars have a rather unusual numbering - the red side numbers "01", "50" and "100" (the supposed serial numbers are 1318, 1319 and 1320.) The aircraft's destination is unknown: these are the first serial Yak-130s built by the IAZ for the Russian Civil Aviation Commission under the 2017 program.

    These aircraft were built by the IAZ in the framework of the contract for the supply of VKS of Russia to the end of 2018, 30 Yak-130 aircraft, signed by the Russian Defense Ministry in April 2016. The first ten Yak-130 aircraft under this contract were transferred to the military power plant in October-December 2016 and entered the 200th training aviation base In Armavir (Krasnodar Territory), which provides training for the restored Krasnodar Higher Military Aviation School of Aviation (KVVAUL) named after AK Serov.

    With the transfer of the first three Yak-130 aircraft to the Russian Air Force in Russia in 2017, the total number of serial vehicles of this type delivered to the Russian Defense Ministry has reached 92 units - of which the 12 first two series were built by OAO Nizhny Novgorod Aviation Plant Sokol, and 80 at the Irkutsk Aviation Plant At the beginning of the year, 42 Yak-130 aircraft (including eight actually unused vehicles of Nizhny Novgorod construction) were in the structure of the 209th training aviation base of KVVAUL in Borisoglebsk, and as part of the 200th aviation training base of the KVVAUL in Armavir - 40 Units.

    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2619216.html







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    Re: Yak-130: News

    Post  George1 on Thu Jun 22, 2017 12:49 pm

    Two Yak-130 accidents per day



    One of the cadets during a training flight at the airborne training base of the Air Force of the Ministry of Defense in Borisoglebsk accidentally landed the plane, the Mash channel reported in the Telegram messenger on Wednesday, June 21. Before landing on the Yak-130, the front landing gear of the chassis did not come out.
    According to Mash, the cadet together with the instructor tried to make a series of maneuvers, which could help to release the rack.
    "Did not work. Then they decided to put the plane on at random. And they sat down! Only with a nose they stuck a little", - have informed in the messenger.
    Correspondent "Vesti-Voronezh" clarifies the information about what happened.

    Earlier today, another Yak-130 crash landed:


    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2682327.html


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    miketheterrible

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    Re: Yak-130: News

    Post  miketheterrible on Thu Jun 22, 2017 1:33 pm

    Two accidents per day or just two accidents in one day?

    If the latter, makes it sound like those Yaks are talking bout of the sky when they aren't....
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    Re: Yak-130: News

    Post  George1 on Tue Jun 27, 2017 2:28 pm

    Military aviation school in Russia’s Krasnodar receives 3 new Yak-130 combat trainers

    The Krasnodar higher military aviation school for pilots has been receiving Yak-130 combat trainers every year since 2013

    MOSCOW, June 26. /TASS/. The Krasnodar higher military aviation school for pilots has received three new Yak-130 fighter trainers under the 2017 government defense order, a spokesman for the Russian Defense Ministry said on Monday.

    "Specialists of aviation engineering services and pilots of the Russian aerospace forces conducted operational acceptance of the aircraft on the ground and in the air, respectively. They checked the quality of the aircraft’s assembly, operation of all systems and mechanisms and correspondence of flight and technical characteristics to those declared," the spokesman said.

    The Krasnodar higher military aviation school for pilots has been receiving Yak-130 combat trainers every year since 2013. In all, it has received 80 such aircraft.

    The Yak-130 is a two-seat jet fighter jet of the new generation used to train pilots and perform combat all-weather missions at air and ground-based targets. The plane’s flight characteristics and maneuverability are similar to those of modern fighter jets at subsonic flight speed, which makes it possible to use such planes to train pilots for 4+ and 5the generation aircraft.


    More:
    http://tass.com/defense/953402


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    franco

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    Re: Yak-130: News

    Post  franco on Mon Jul 24, 2017 11:58 pm

    Another 3 Yak-130's delivered to the Air Force;

    https://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/96192/

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    Re: Yak-130: News

    Post  T-47 on Tue Jul 25, 2017 6:17 pm

    miketheterrible wrote:Two accidents per day or just two accidents in one day?

    If the latter, makes it sound like those Yaks are talking bout of the sky when they aren't....

    Two accidents in one day. Third in a month.
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    miketheterrible

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    Re: Yak-130: News

    Post  miketheterrible on Tue Jul 25, 2017 7:11 pm

    Wonder what the results of investigation are or of they are still going through it?

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