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    Yak-130: News

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    sepheronx
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    Re: Yak-130: News

    Post  sepheronx on Sun May 22, 2016 12:46 am

    But they stated that they will probably purchase the Sr-10 as an inbetween the Yak 130 and Yak 152

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    Re: Yak-130: News

    Post  franco on Sun May 22, 2016 1:36 am

    Who said?

    sepheronx
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    Re: Yak-130: News

    Post  sepheronx on Sun May 22, 2016 1:40 am

    Edit: I think it was on keypub. Cant be sure. But I know there was interest in it.

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    Re: Yak-130: News

    Post  eehnie on Sun May 22, 2016 5:27 am


    From what I readed my impression is that it was more private lobbing than official interest of the Russian ministery of defense.

    Some times it happen.

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    Re: Yak-130: News

    Post  Militarov on Sun May 22, 2016 5:47 am

    Yes, there are rumors it might be accepted as intermediate trainer between Yak-152 and Jak-130, however i dont think its required. Most of the armies have just entry trainers, advanced trainers and then switch to fighters, intermediate trainers are quite rare. Some even switch directly from turboprops to fighters.

    Also one thing is for sure, its not getting into service with Ivchenko AI-25s... They will have to switch to Saturn AL-55.

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    Re: Yak-130: News

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Sun May 22, 2016 6:02 am

    sepheronx wrote:Edit: I think it was on keypub.  Cant be sure.  But I know there was interest in it.

    It's probably horse-shite for these reasons:

    1.) Ukrainian engines.

    2.) Creating a niche such as a intermediate trainer is comparable to creating a solution and then finding a problem, which is no surprise because...

    3.) It's a private venture, and just take a look at the privatized MIC in the U.S. and their corrupt lobbying practices.

    4.) Forward swept wings....what's the point?


    ...VKS shouldn't waste their time on that and just purchase more Yak-130's.

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    Re: Yak-130: News

    Post  GarryB on Sun May 22, 2016 7:51 am

    The Yak-152 is a primary trainer with a turboprop engine, the Yak-130 is a lead in fighter trainer that has advanced flight control systems allowing it to simulate the flight performance of anything from an AN-124 to a Su-35 or PAK FA... there is no need for a cheap intermediate trainer between those two.

    The best bet for this light trainer is as a cheaper alternative to the Yak-130 for countries that don't need the sophistication of the Yak, and can't afford the operational costs of such a sophisticated light training aircraft.

    Would be a cheap light trainer for India where many of its main fighter aircraft are two seat aircraft so the level of training in light training aircraft is not so demanding.

    As an airfield hack and early trainer the SR-10 would be excellent for countries that prefer two seat operational aircraft as an intermediate step from a basic turboprop trainer to the full power fully armed two seat model fighter bomber like the Su-30MKI.

    A centre pod that simulates guided weapon use would be invaluable for the SR-10... the newer guided munitions from Russia included podded seekers that can be used for training and would be relatively cheap and simple to add to an aircraft.


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    Re: Yak-130: News

    Post  medo on Sun May 22, 2016 9:33 am

    Yak-152 and SR-10 are not in the same league of trainers. Yak-152 is primary trainer and is meant to replace old Yak-52 trainers. SR-10 is nearer to Yak-130, than to Yak-152. About the engine, AI-25 from L-39 is used for prototype and maybe it will be used as option for civil market. I have no doubt domestic serial SR-10 will use AL-55 from MiG-AT trainer, which is far more modern and economical comparing to old AI-25 and is more powerful. RuAF could buy some SR-10 trainers for evaluations and for less important units, but it will be mostly for export. Most probably main Russian customer for SR-10 will be DOSAAF, where pilots could fly in jet trainers even before they go to academy.

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    Re: Yak-130: News

    Post  franco on Thu May 26, 2016 10:43 pm

    Tikhoretsk (Krasnodar region), 26 May -. Initial RIA Novosti summer internship at Russian military schools resumed after a break of three years - the students of the Krasnodar Higher Military Aviation School of Pilots them. AK Serov made the first training flights on the A-39 aircraft, told the commander of the Air Force (Air Force) of the Russian Federation - Deputy Commander Lieutenant General FSI Andrei Yudin.

    "Today is a great day for all air and space forces of Russia - for the first time after three years in the air alone soared young guys who ever replace us in our line of duty," - said Yudin.

    He recalled that the first flight is always preceded by a thorough theoretical training throughout the two years of study. Summer practice in grades 3, 4 and 5 courses begins in spring and lasts until 30 September.

    "We have reached a good competition pilot training This allows us to select the best during training, for which we will not worry This is the most important in the performance of combat missions..", - Said the commander of the Air Force.

    Deputy Commander in Chief also said that the plane for the initial flight training continues to be a jet plane L-39 "Albatros", while the fourth and fifth year of the future pilots gradually learn to fly on the new training aircraft Yak-130. "Every year on the plan in Borisoglebsk and Armavir arrive at least 10 Yak-130 aircraft they adapted to modern types of aircraft Yak-130 have enough sophisticated equipment and multifunction systems.." - Said Yudin.

    He added that in the next few years in the first schools expect revenues aircraft for initial training of the Yak-152.

    That sounds like the Yak-152 replaces the L.39 as the initial flight trainer.






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    Re: Yak-130: News

    Post  GarryB on Fri May 27, 2016 8:57 am

    Well it would make sense to use a simple light cheap jet trainer as a stepping stone from the turboprop Yak-152 to the twin jet Yak-130 to replace the L-39.

    I would however suspect for countries with smaller budgets that it might play a bigger role, up to and including a light COIN role... a light weapon capacity of say two seven shot 80mm rocket pods with a targeting pod, or cannon pods or light bomb capability... say FAB-100s or whatever.

    Might be interesting if it can be kept cheap to buy and operate.


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    Re: Yak-130: News

    Post  franco on Fri Jun 03, 2016 5:01 pm

    SR-10 being demonstrated to the VKS at Kubinka;
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AzHiGIi0oE0

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    Re: Yak-130: News

    Post  yak130 on Sat Aug 20, 2016 10:06 am

    If yakolev makes a light multirole version  of yak-130 (combine Yak-133 and yak-135) with supersonic ( >M1.8 ) single seat, AESA radar (with R-77, Kh-31a/p, Kh-35...) , price (under 25 millions USD) will be execellent. I think it will a hot aircraft in the world market!

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    Re: Yak-130: News

    Post  marcellogo on Sat Aug 20, 2016 5:50 pm

    GarryB wrote:The Yak-152 is a primary trainer with a turboprop engine, the Yak-130 is a lead in fighter trainer that has advanced flight control systems allowing it to simulate the flight performance of anything from an AN-124 to a Su-35 or PAK FA... there is no need for a cheap intermediate trainer between those two.

    The best bet for this light trainer is as a cheaper alternative to the Yak-130 for countries that don't need the sophistication of the Yak, and can't afford the operational costs of such a sophisticated light training aircraft.

    Would be a cheap light trainer for India where many of its main fighter aircraft are two seat aircraft so the level of training in light training aircraft is not so demanding.

    As an airfield hack and early trainer the SR-10 would be excellent for countries that prefer two seat operational aircraft as an intermediate step from a basic turboprop trainer to the full power fully armed two seat model fighter bomber like the Su-30MKI.

    A centre pod that simulates guided weapon use would be invaluable for the SR-10... the newer guided munitions from Russia included podded seekers that can be used for training and would be relatively cheap and simple to add to an aircraft.
    Well, here in Italy (you know...M-346) tthey think exactly the opposite: there is a lot of savings that can be done with passing to a three trainers line.
    Yak-130/M-346 are quite big, high performance and complexity birds, so using them for all the basic and advance d training instead of MB-339 would be both a economical nonsense than a quite risky thing for trainees.
    So basically the idea is: a high performance (relative to category) primary trainer, in our case turboprop version of SF-260, yours Yak-152; a basic to early advanced jet trainer, lighter than the ones actually in service and just for the final part a lead-in trainer.
    Primary trainer would take care some parts of the syllabus made by the previous generation jet trainer (great savings), intermediate part would be covered by the lighter one (moderate savings) while just the final one would be covered by the costly lead-in trainers.
    Still the lead-in would take upon itself a lot of hours that in the previous model would have been done in OCU two seat version of the actual operative fighter planes, so the relatively greater expense one have in using it in the limited advanced training phase would be more than compensed by the HUGE savings obtaned in cutting down the previous OCU phase.
    In the same time transition from a trainer model to the successive one other would be (hopefully) way smoothier, so to allow a greater succes percentage in pilot's selection (huge savings also there).
    A plane likeSR-10 would play IMHO the intermediate phase role excellently but also the actual L-39, a champion of economicity in his own class, would be quite good.

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    Post  d_taddei2 on Fri Oct 07, 2016 7:56 pm

    Hi has anyone heard if there is any progress of producing/marketing a Yak-130 multi role attack aircraft seems such a great idea and niche in the market, it seems many countries are turning to light strike aircraft for COIN duties and ranging from jet powered to turboprop, but i think the super Tucano has pretty much won the turboprop market and why not its actually pretty good, but for the jet powered market it still seems nobody has fully won the markt share yet, and Russia isnt even in the market. Russia has got everything at its fingertips to enter every market except turboprop COIN aircraft, if it was to get a move on and start producing armed Yak-130 versions they could very well dominate this niche in the market. South American, central American, African, central Asia, S/E Asia, South Asia, and the Philippines is the potential areas of sale which is a huge market. From selling the more advanced fighters from Su-30, Su-34, Su-35, Mig-35, aircraft to the cheaper option of Mig-29SMT/M2, and various attack heli's of Mi-28, Ka-52, Mi-24/35, and
    Mi-171Sh, there is something for every country and budget. Theirs even opportunity for light attack heli if yet again if Russia start push forward the Kazan Ansat-2RC armed version of Ansat. Another market for them is to push the sale of refurbished and upgraded Su-25, Su-24, Su-27, Mig-31. As well as offering upgrades to Mig-29, and other Soviet era aircraft. I always feel Russia doesnt try to expand its market to other countries and instead stays with current countries.

    Another area to push is wheeled armoured vehicles such as Tigr-M, BPM-97, Gaz Vodnik etc. another growing market.

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    Re: Yak-130: News

    Post  GarryB on Sat Oct 08, 2016 6:15 am

    The main problem for Russia is that countries with lots of money to spend are not around in large numbers and those that do exist already have existing suppliers.

    Russia lost most of its Soviet Market for weapons when the Soviet Union broke up and lost half of its European market when the Warsaw Pact broke up.

    With the end of the Cold War Russia was left with a clientèle of countries used to politically motivated sales based on loans that were rarely if ever paid back... no way to run a business.

    More importantly the products they used to sell tended to be simple and robust but also rather cheap.

    It made them easy to use easy to maintain and effective in situations where more complicated things tended to fail... it also made them cheap for poorer countries.

    New Russian hardware is actually rather sophisticated and even the factories to make the new hardware are sophisticated and capable but also more expensive.

    Not every country can justify spending on an unproven potential aircraft like a fighter version of the Yak-130... we can speculate on here about how useful such an aircraft might be but that costs us nothing.

    If most countries had any real brains exports of Su-25 would be like the exports of MiG-21s.... and they are not.

    The Su-25 would be a much more practical aircraft for the vast majority of smaller airforces around the world that might buy Russian aircraft but instead they go for shiny fast MiGs and now Sukhoi Flanker based aircraft.

    A brand new Su-25 with new ceramic armour and composite materials... increased onboard fuel, the longer barrel twin 30mm cannon from the Hind (GSh-30-2K with higher muzzle velocity and slightly lower rate of fire) and new engines based perhaps on RD-33s without the ABs would be rather more interesting in my opinion.

    Especially if it had the sensors and optics and radar developed for the new attack helos currently in service and entering service soon.

    Wider wings with more hard points able to carry multiple weapons (like an 8 weapon Hermes pylon like the current Vikhr setup), and a wider fuselage with belly points for weapons and targeting pods.


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    Re: Yak-130: News

    Post  d_taddei2 on Mon Oct 10, 2016 1:19 am

    GarryB wrote:The main problem for Russia is that countries with lots of money to spend are not around in large numbers and those that do exist already have existing suppliers.

    Russia lost most of its Soviet Market for weapons when the Soviet Union broke up and lost half of its European market when the Warsaw Pact broke up.

    With the end of the Cold War Russia was left with a clientèle of countries used to politically motivated sales based on loans that were rarely if ever paid back... no way to run a business.

    More importantly the products they used to sell tended to be simple and robust but also rather cheap.

    It made them easy to use easy to maintain and effective in situations where more complicated things tended to fail... it also made them cheap for poorer countries.

    New Russian hardware is actually rather sophisticated and even the factories to make the new hardware are sophisticated and capable but also more expensive.

    Not every country can justify spending on an unproven potential aircraft like a fighter version of the Yak-130... we can speculate on here about how useful such an aircraft might be but that costs us nothing.

    If most countries had any real brains exports of Su-25 would be like the exports of MiG-21s.... and they are not.

    The Su-25 would be a much more practical aircraft for the vast majority of smaller airforces around the world that might buy Russian aircraft but instead they go for shiny fast MiGs and now Sukhoi Flanker based aircraft.

    A brand new Su-25 with new ceramic armour and composite materials... increased onboard fuel, the longer barrel twin 30mm cannon from the Hind (GSh-30-2K with higher muzzle velocity and slightly lower rate of fire) and new engines based perhaps on RD-33s without the ABs would be rather more interesting in my opinion.

    Especially if it had the sensors and optics and radar developed for the new attack helos currently in service and entering service soon.

    Wider wings with more hard points able to carry multiple weapons (like an 8 weapon Hermes pylon like the current Vikhr setup), and a wider fuselage with belly points for weapons and targeting pods.

    some valid points and thanks for replying.

    I agree Su-25 would be ideal for smaller air forces but i think it would be better to have a mix of Su-25, Mig-29SMT/M2, Mi-24/35, Mi-17, these four would cover just about everything they would need, Mi-17 has loads variants such as medivac, SAR, armed assault, and of course transport,
    the Mi-24/35 is a versatile attack gunship and can carry out every role any other attack heli can but has the added bonus of acting as back up light transport and ideal for insertion of Special forces. The Su-25 a rugged reliable, ground support back this up with the Mi-24/35 and ground troops have some real good fire support. and finally the Mig-29SMT/M2 is cheap reliable, and is brilliant at dogfights, so this would take care of enemy aircraft, bolster air defence, keep the skies clear for the Su-25 and MI-24/35 to do their thing, and can even be used to bomb enemy structures. The beauty about all four is there reliability, ruggedness, versatility and cheap price (compared to others). Small air forces often need one piece of equipment to be able to do many functions and i think the above four versatility is a key strength and of course all are fit for purpose. There is no denying all are capable and carry out their duties well.

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    Re: Yak-130: News

    Post  Svyatoslavich on Tue Oct 11, 2016 3:34 am

    A supersonic Yak-130 with a light but modern radar could be useful for small but not that poor countries (like Uruguay or most countries of former Yugoslavia), a very compact and light but fully combat-capable multifunctional plane which is also an advanced trainer. Only the Koreans went for this concept so far, though, with their TA/FA-50, and got some foreign orders (the Philippines and, if I am not mistaken, Indonesia).
    Su-25, on the other hand, is too especialized. It is extremely armored, heavy, slow, short-ranged, purely visual (though this can be remediated with a poded radar, as it was proposed for the Su-39). It isn't suitable even for many strike missions.

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    Re: Yak-130: News

    Post  GarryB on Tue Oct 11, 2016 9:31 am

    The Su-25 is a CAS aircraft that is designed to operate over a front line... lighter more expensive types just wont cut it.

    The US tried to replace the A-10 with an A-16 and now an A-35 but they will simply fail.

    A MiG-29SMT with bombs is never going to be flying supersonically on an attack mission so the fact that an Su-25 will also be subsonic means that it is not too slow for the mission... which includes finding the target and then attacking it.

    Many aircraft companies tout their LIFTS as replacements for CAS aircraft but tests are performed and they fail.

    Operating from airstrips near the front line is critical if you want to spend most of your flight time in the right airspace. Operating there and not being able to take some small arms fire means you cant cut it.

    The Solution is not faster or lighter armoured...


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    Re: Yak-130: News

    Post  eehnie on Tue Oct 11, 2016 11:51 pm

    GarryB wrote:The Su-25 is a CAS aircraft that is designed to operate over a front line... lighter more expensive types just wont cut it.

    The US tried to replace the A-10 with an A-16 and now an A-35 but they will simply fail.

    A MiG-29SMT with bombs is never going to be flying supersonically on an attack mission so the fact that an Su-25 will also be subsonic means that it is not too slow for the mission... which includes finding the target and then attacking it.

    Many aircraft companies tout their LIFTS as replacements for CAS aircraft but tests are performed and they fail.

    Operating from airstrips near the front line is critical if you want to spend most of your flight time in the right airspace. Operating there and not being able to take some small arms fire means you cant cut it.

    The Solution is not faster or lighter armoured...

    The war in Ukraine shows clearly which can be the future of the combat concept of the Su-25 and the A-10.

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    Re: Yak-130: News

    Post  kopyo-21 on Wed Oct 12, 2016 6:57 pm

    eehnie wrote:The war in Ukraine shows clearly which can be the future of the combat concept of the Su-25 and the A-10.
    A lot of Ukrainian heavily armored Su-25 were shot down by manpads and anti air guns in combat so for sure light attack aircrafts like Yak-130 will be not able to survive there.

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    Re: Yak-130: News

    Post  GarryB on Thu Oct 13, 2016 1:21 pm

    A lot of Ukrainian heavily armored Su-25 were shot down by manpads and anti air guns in combat so for sure light attack aircrafts like Yak-130 will be not able to survive there.

    Those aircraft had primitive self defence suites... no DIRCMS, no towed decoys... and had little or no SEAD support or guided munitions.

    An upgraded Su-25SM3 will not only have better self defence capability but will also be much more potent at accurately hitting even small targets from stand off distances or even at night when it will be much safer from enemy fire.



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    Re: Yak-130: News

    Post  eehnie on Thu Oct 13, 2016 7:07 pm

    kopyo-21 wrote:
    eehnie wrote:The war in Ukraine shows clearly which can be the future of the combat concept of the Su-25 and the A-10.
    A lot of Ukrainian heavily armored Su-25 were shot down by manpads and anti air guns in combat so for sure light attack aircrafts like Yak-130 will be not able to survive there.

    A light supersonic Yak-130 for export with capabilities of Ground Attack need to be able to the the job at enough distance to avoid the manpads. This is the alone option for manned aircrafts to survive in the future despite what GarryB says. Aircrafts like the Su-25 and the A-10 only can work and survive today in scenarios with very low or zero density of manpads, like the current war of Syria.

    Personally I appreciate more the training features of a small supersonic development of the Yak-130.

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    Re: Yak-130: News

    Post  medo on Thu Oct 13, 2016 9:15 pm

    Yak-130 could already made attacks outside from the range of MANPADs with using TV guided KAB-500Kr bomb and by using satellite navigation complex GLONASS in similar way as SVP-24 for precision attacks. Upgraded Yak-130 will be as well equipped with SOLT targeting complex and with data link to work in network and will have wingtip ESM pods.

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    Re: Yak-130: News

    Post  medo on Sat Oct 22, 2016 7:35 pm

    http://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/84933/

    RuAF receive 4 more Yak-130 trainers. I wonder, when will RuNAVY receive their trainers.

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    Re: Yak-130: News

    Post  GarryB on Sun Oct 23, 2016 9:17 am

    Yak-130 could already made attacks outside from the range of MANPADs with using TV guided KAB-500Kr bomb and by using satellite navigation complex GLONASS in similar way as SVP-24 for precision attacks. Upgraded Yak-130 will be as well equipped with SOLT targeting complex and with data link to work in network and will have wingtip ESM pods.

    The fact is that anything you can put on an Yak-130 to make it a CAS aircraft you can already put on the Su-25 and the latter aircraft actually has armour in case it manages to get within small arms fire of the enemy.

    In other words anything that you can put on to the Yak you can put on the Su but also the Su-25SM3 already has the self defence equipment like President-S to stop MANPADS... adding the system they use to detect optics on the ground would also be a huge step towards stopping laser beam riding missiles.

    At the end of the day replacing the CAS aircraft with light LIFT trainers and drones is flawed.

    It wont be cheaper if they are too vulnerable to do their job. If it is a suicide mission then will will always cost an aircraft... using guided munitions and stand off sensors then you are better using medium aircraft like MiG-35 with targeting pods... or even better large heavy aircraft like Bears and Backfires that can loiter for hours with a heavy load of a range of weapons ready to deploy when the target pops its head up...

    The thing is that big heavy aircraft are expensive and there are not that many of them and the ordinance they deploy is not cheap either.

    A Su-25 can operate from a nearby air strip out in the wop wops and deliver direct fire against enemy positions using cheap rockets and bombs and guns.


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