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    Yak-130: News

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    eehnie
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    Re: Yak-130: News

    Post  eehnie on Fri Mar 04, 2016 2:00 am

    Militarov wrote:
    eehnie wrote:
    Militarov wrote:
    eehnie wrote:
    GarryB wrote:
    I see interesting a small supersonic trainer for the first supersonic experiences of the pilots, instead of doing it in bigger and more expensive Su-24, MiG-29,...

    A supersonic trainer can help to save money.[/quote


    But that is the problem... the extra cost of making the trainer supersonic will make it more expensive to use, yet the vast majority of its time will be spent at subsonic speeds training pilots in all sorts of things at subsonic speeds.

    Breaking the speed of sound is a total non event... doing it at medium to high altitude and the only way you know you are supersonic is by looking at your speed instruments.

    the reason the vast majority of LIFT aircraft are subsonic is because flying supersonic is of no value to a training aircraft. It is the same for CAS... there is no advantage to flying so fast you can't spot targets and threats on the ground.

    Speed is useful for an interceptor, or for attack but speed wont make you safe.

    The only reason to make a light trainer supersonic is to make it into a light fighter/bomber.

    Then to be supersonic is necessary for a light fighter/bomber? Why? The answer to this question explains many things about the value of the speed on aircrafts. Nothing in this life make you safe, but somethings like the speed in the air (and the armour on land) make you safer in contested areas.

    In some comments it seems that to make a supersonic version of the Yak-130 is easy and cheap, in other comments seems that is expensive... The point of my comment was that if it is cheap, I would see interesting to have some supersonic trainers to give to the pilots their first supersonic experiences instead of doing it in more expensive aircrafts. If the Yak-135 is developed as a supersonic version of the Yak-130 it would be interesting to take advantage of it also for training purposes.

    The concept of a trainer aircraft is to give experience to the pilots wasting less money in operational terms and risking less money in terms of equipment. It is also to avoid accidents in more expensive aircrafts. Not all the trainer aircrafts need to be supersonic.

    For fighters/interceptors superonic capabilities are required to fight, without it they are useless, they cant chase, cant intercept, cant sprint to dedicated gathering area, you lose response time, also afterburners are used in actual combat to allow certain maneuvers... And there is no point in having supersonic trainer as you MUST put pilots after Yak 130 for a while on two seat dedicated fighters to adapt for its subsystems, controls, handling etc. When its about feeling there is no much difference between high subsonic and low supersonic from pilots perspective.

    Supersonic variant of Yak-130 would be cheap multirole fighter, however it wouldnt be cheap trainer. Also worlds basically only real supersonic trainer is T-50 Golden Eagle, which costs to operate same as F16 Block 40.


    Do you know that the most produced military trainer has been a supersonic trainer? I was surprised when I found it. The T-38 has been surely the most succesful of the military trainers until now, and is supersonic. Then, the idea of a supersonic trainer has at least some point.

    Well aware of that, and its operational costs are basically same as of F5 Tiger which was mainstray fighter of many NATO countries for decades. Majority of trainers are subsonic only and it will be that way probably till the moment when manned aircraft disappear from our skies.

    Also i wouldnt call T38 most succesful advanced trainer till now, not even by a long shot, it was averagely present in service due to US influence. Far better service records have BAE Hawk, L-39 Albatros, L-29 Delfín.. hell even Aermacchi MB-326, which are all legends among trainer aircrafts. Imo T-37 Tweet was far better machine for that role than Talon.


    It is necessary to say that the F-5 was developed from the T-38 and not the inverse case. Also the T-38 has been about a 25% more produced than the F-5.

    To say which has been the most succesful trainer is open to discussion, but the T-38 has two significant data on its side. First, to be the most produced trainer aircraft and second to be 55 years in active service (and increasing).

    I think the data are enough good to prove that the idea of a supersonic trainer has some sense.

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    Re: Yak-130: News

    Post  Militarov on Fri Mar 04, 2016 2:13 am



    It is necessary to say that the F-5 was developed from the T-38 and not the inverse case. Also the T-38 has been about a 25% more produced than the F-5.

    To say which has been the most succesful trainer is open to discussion, but the T-38 has two significant data on its side. First, to be the most produced trainer aircraft and second to be 55 years in active service (and increasing).

    I think the data are enough good to prove that the idea of a supersonic trainer has some sense.

    Doesnt matter which one was the first, doesnt change fact T38 as a pure trainer had same operating costs as real fighter which doesnt really make any sense whatsoever, not even by a long shot.

    Also you confused something there, F5 was produced in over 2000 pieces while T38 was produced in somewhat over 1000 examples. And its nowhere near being the most produced advanced trainer, L-29 Delfín was produced in over 3.500 examples probably near 4000, L-39 Albatros almost 3000. If we merge production of BAE Hawk and T-45 Goshawk (as they are same design) we have again more than T38, with side note that Hawk is to be produced for at least another decade probably more. Lockheed T-33 was made in thousands, probably over 6.000, Yugoslavia alone operated 125.


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    Re: Yak-130: News

    Post  eehnie on Fri Mar 04, 2016 2:48 am

    Militarov wrote:


    It is necessary to say that the F-5 was developed from the T-38 and not the inverse case. Also the T-38 has been about a 25% more produced than the F-5.

    To say which has been the most succesful trainer is open to discussion, but the T-38 has two significant data on its side. First, to be the most produced trainer aircraft and second to be 55 years in active service (and increasing).

    I think the data are enough good to prove that the idea of a supersonic trainer has some sense.

    Doesnt matter which one was the first, doesnt change fact T38 as a pure trainer had same operating costs as real fighter which doesnt really make any sense whatsoever, not even by a long shot.

    Also you confused something there, F5 was produced in over 2000 pieces while T38 was produced in somewhat over 1000 examples. And its nowhere near being the most produced advanced trainer, L-29 Delfín was produced in over 3.500 examples probably near 4000, L-39 Albatros almost 3000. If we merge production of BAE Hawk and T-45 Goshawk (as they are same design) we have again more than T38, with side note that Hawk is to be produced for at least another decade probably more. Lockheed T-33 was made in thousands, probably over 6.000, Yugoslavia alone operated 125.


    It maters in this sense. It is not right to call F-5 to the T-38. The original design was a trainer aircraft. The T-38 is not a fighter modified, while the F-5 is a trainer aircraft modified to be a fighter. The T-38 is not supersonic because it was developed from a fighter. The T-38 was designed supersonic to be a trainer, and has been successful.

    From what I know the number of 2000 is for both, the T-38 and the F-5, with about 1175 T-38s and 925 F-5s (aproximately). Also, I think you are including in the numbers for the other trainers, aircrafts of versions for civil use.

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    Post  d_taddei2 on Fri Apr 01, 2016 1:16 pm

    Sales of the Yak-130 jet trainer are expected to make their way to a number of Latin American countries according to Anatoly Punchuk, the deputy director of the Russian Federal Service of Military-Technical Cooperation. It is hoped that the combat training aircraft is selected as a number of air forces plan to renew their current fleets of flight equipment. Punchuk's comments were made as he participated in the FIDAE-2016 arms exhibition in Chile, where foreign experts were allowed to test the aircraft for themselves.


    http://sputniknews.com/military/20160330/1037188523/russia-chile-fidae-yak-130.html


    i hope that its the armed version they are planning on buying, South American air forces have some pretty outdated aircraft, i have always said the Yak-130 would be ideal for poorer countries especially South America and African countries. I wonder if we will see any sales to Africa and South east Asia.


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    Post  d_taddei2 on Sun Apr 03, 2016 11:55 am

    a nice pic of Yak-130 with what could be laser rangefinder and TV camera or other targeting systems.

    and a nice couple of older articles on the Yak-130

    http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/russias-lethal-yak-130-fighter-the-tiny-terror-nato-should-13782

    http://warisboring.com/articles/this-tiny-russian-plane-has-a-ridiculous-amount-of-weapons/



    Last edited by d_taddei2 on Sun Apr 03, 2016 11:56 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : pic)

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    Re: Yak-130: News

    Post  Militarov on Sun Apr 03, 2016 4:04 pm

    eehnie wrote:
    Militarov wrote:


    It is necessary to say that the F-5 was developed from the T-38 and not the inverse case. Also the T-38 has been about a 25% more produced than the F-5.

    To say which has been the most succesful trainer is open to discussion, but the T-38 has two significant data on its side. First, to be the most produced trainer aircraft and second to be 55 years in active service (and increasing).

    I think the data are enough good to prove that the idea of a supersonic trainer has some sense.

    Doesnt matter which one was the first, doesnt change fact T38 as a pure trainer had same operating costs as real fighter which doesnt really make any sense whatsoever, not even by a long shot.

    Also you confused something there, F5 was produced in over 2000 pieces while T38 was produced in somewhat over 1000 examples. And its nowhere near being the most produced advanced trainer, L-29 Delfín was produced in over 3.500 examples probably near 4000, L-39 Albatros almost 3000. If we merge production of BAE Hawk and T-45 Goshawk (as they are same design) we have again more than T38, with side note that Hawk is to be produced for at least another decade probably more. Lockheed T-33 was made in thousands, probably over 6.000, Yugoslavia alone operated 125.


    It maters in this sense. It is not right to call F-5 to the T-38. The original design was a trainer aircraft. The T-38 is not a fighter modified, while the F-5 is a trainer aircraft modified to be a fighter. The T-38 is not supersonic because it was developed from a fighter. The T-38 was designed supersonic to be a trainer, and has been successful.

    From what I know the number of 2000 is for both, the T-38 and the F-5, with about 1175 T-38s and 925 F-5s (aproximately). Also, I think you are including in the numbers for the other trainers, aircrafts of versions for civil use.

    Very few reactive engine trainers ever were built for civilian use. They were mostly obtained by civilians via surplus sales after they served some time in armed forces, let alone that some major numbers were sold on market for civilians.

    Na, numbers are separate actually. Just South Vietnam, Saudi Arabia, South Korea, Iran, Turkey and Taiwan operated more than 1000.

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    Re: Yak-130: News

    Post  Militarov on Sun Apr 03, 2016 4:10 pm

    d_taddei2 wrote:a nice pic of Yak-130 with what could be laser rangefinder and TV camera or other targeting systems.

    and a nice couple of older articles on the Yak-130

    http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/russias-lethal-yak-130-fighter-the-tiny-terror-nato-should-13782

    http://warisboring.com/articles/this-tiny-russian-plane-has-a-ridiculous-amount-of-weapons/


    Yes its laser rangefinder.






    There is another variant with it too, which probably grew to be this one above.



    Its also mentioned in this video

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    Re: Yak-130: News

    Post  sepheronx on Sun Apr 03, 2016 4:22 pm

    I believe salt-25 is supposed to work on Yak-130, not just Su-25SM3. So thermal imaging/tv sensors too.

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    Re: Yak-130: News

    Post  Militarov on Sun Apr 03, 2016 4:25 pm

    sepheronx wrote:I believe salt-25 is supposed to work on Yak-130, not just Su-25SM3. So thermal imaging/tv sensors too.

    Most likely yes.

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    Re: Yak-130: News

    Post  medo on Wed Apr 06, 2016 2:54 pm



    Night fly.

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    Re: Yak-130: News

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Fri Apr 08, 2016 1:37 pm

    Militarov wrote:

    It maters in this sense. It is not right to call F-5 to the T-38. The original design was a trainer aircraft. The T-38 is not a fighter modified, while the F-5 is a trainer aircraft modified to be a fighter. The T-38 is not supersonic because it was developed from a fighter. The T-38 was designed supersonic to be a trainer, and has been successful.

    From what I know the number of 2000 is for both, the T-38 and the F-5, with about 1175 T-38s and 925 F-5s (aproximately). Also, I think you are including in the numbers for the other trainers, aircrafts of versions for civil use.[/quote]

    Very few reactive engine trainers ever were built for civilian use. They were mostly obtained by civilians via surplus sales after they served some time in armed forces, let alone that some major numbers were sold on market for civilians.

    Na, numbers are separate actually. Just South Vietnam, Saudi Arabia, South Korea, Iran, Turkey and Taiwan operated more than 1000.[/quote]

    I guess KAI T-50 and Chinese L-15 are supersonic not due need for trainer to be supersonic but heavily promotes as light attack plane... BTW this shows also that Yak-130 attack/fighter version can be supersonic (aka Yak-135)


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    Re: Yak-130: News

    Post  Viktor on Sun Apr 17, 2016 12:23 pm

    New contract thumbsup

    VKS Russia will receive 30 training aircraft Yak-130 until the end of 2018

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    Re: Yak-130: News

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Sun Apr 17, 2016 10:12 pm

    Viktor wrote:New contract  thumbsup

    VKS Russia will receive 30 training aircraft Yak-130 until the end of 2018

    WTF Ulukayev made a provocation or this is clear sabotage of Russian interests?!!!

    Russian Economic Development Minister Alexei Ulyukayev said that France's Airbus company had shown interest in buying a stake in Russian helicopters.
    http://sputniknews.com/business/20160415/1038097215/russia-helicopters-privatization.html

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    Re: Yak-130: News

    Post  wilhelm on Mon Apr 18, 2016 12:04 am

    eehnie wrote:

    It maters in this sense. It is not right to call F-5 to the T-38. The original design was a trainer aircraft. The T-38 is not a fighter modified, while the F-5 is a trainer aircraft modified to be a fighter. The T-38 is not supersonic because it was developed from a fighter. The T-38 was designed supersonic to be a trainer, and has been successful.


    This is not correct.
    Northrops history on this is well known and has been in the public domain for decades. The info is freely available.

    The original design by Northrop was called the N-156. It was designed as a fighter.
    This followed on from their original lightweight fighter design called the N-102 Fang, but Northrop decided to make use of the brand new J85 engine, which was small enough to make the lightweight fighter even smaller. The aim of the design was to make a low cost, low maintenance fighter, and early designs were also directed to a potential naval application to operate off smaller carriers. The early carrier-borne light fighter versions had a two seater trainer derivitive due to the demanding nature of carrier ops.

    While the fighter design of the main N-156 was basically being completed and being frozen, Northrop were informed of a new USAF trainer requirement, and decided to adapt and modify their lightweight N-156 fighter design and enter a modified version of the design into the USAF's requirement for a supersonic trainer. This then led Northrop to issue the designations N-156F for the original fighter role, and the N-156T for the trainer version, which had a series of differences from the fighter.
    Because the N-156T was selected by the USAF as its supersonic trainer, Northrop decided to put the original fighter version, now called the N-156F, on the backburner.
    Even after Northrop devoted more resources to bringing the derived trainer N-156T (called the T-38 Talon in service) to the fore due to the order, the fighter version flew rapidly 1 month after the trainer.

    To recap: The design was that of a lightweight, low cost, low maintenance fighter called the Northrop N-156. The N-156T was modified by Northrop from the N-156 light fighter design, and became known as the T-38. The N-156 light fighter was then redesignated N-156F, and was known as the F-5 once it was ordered and entered service.
    The only reason the trainer T-38 flew first was because it was ordered first, causing Northrop to concentrate on getting it up to speed quicker.


    Last edited by wilhelm on Mon Apr 18, 2016 12:29 am; edited 2 times in total

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    Re: Yak-130: News

    Post  George1 on Mon Apr 18, 2016 12:23 am

    So we have 79 Yak-130 delivered to the air force. +30 ordered
    and 10 also ordered for the Navy

    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/1856251.html


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    Re: Yak-130: News

    Post  JohninMK on Tue Apr 19, 2016 6:50 pm

    Now in the US press

    19 April, 2016 BY: Beth Stevenson London

    Russia's defence ministry has ordered a further 30 Yak-130 twin-seat jet trainers for the nation's air force, Irkut announced on 18 April. The aircraft are expected to be delivered between early 2017 and the end of 2018. Irkut says the Yak-130s will be used for cadet training for a variety of roles, including weapons firing, and to learn the characteristics of fourth- and fifth-generation fighters. The type could also be used as a light attack aircraft.

    The contract was signed by deputy defence minister Yuri Borisov and Irkut president Oleg Demchenko.

    Flightglobal’s Fleets Analyzer database shows the Russian air force already operates 77 Yak-130s, including 12 with an aerobatic display team. The nation's navy has a requirement for 10, with at least five the subject of firm orders.

    Other operators include Algeria, Bangladesh and Belarus, with the latter two having more examples on order. Kazakhstan, Myanmar and Syria are among other future operators. Belarus received its first batch of the type in April 2015 and its air force in February carried out live firing tests of the Vympel R-73 short-range air-to-air missile. At the MAKS Moscow air show in August, Belarus commited to acquiring four more Yak-130s, doubling the original order, made in 2011.

    Russia's latest Yak-130 contract follows a 4 April announcement its air force will acquire “more than 30” Sukhoi Su-30SM multirole fighters, with deliveries to be complete by the end of 2018. Signed by Borisov and Demchenko, the deal takes the number of Su-30SMs on order for Russia to 32, Fleets Analyzer says, with 56 delivered. The Russian navy has also received eight Su-30SMs, and has 20 more on order. Kazakhstan's air force also has four in service and Belarus will acquire the same number. The SM variant is a fourth-generation fighter derived from the baseline Su-30 and with enhanced electronics. Moscow received its first Su-30SMs in late 2012, following a 30-unit order signed in March of that year.


    https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/russian-air-force-orders-more-yak-130-trainers-424362/

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    Re: Yak-130: News

    Post  max steel on Fri Apr 22, 2016 12:11 pm

    Myanmar, Latin America Interested in Russia’s Yak-130 Fighter Trainer

    Myanmar, as well as a number of Latin American and North African states, are interested in purchasing Russia’s Yakovlev (Mitten) Yak-130 jet trainer, head of the International Cooperation Department of Russia’s state technology corporation Rostec, Viktor Kladov, said.

    "The Yak-130 is being considered on various markets, a whole range of Latin American countries is eyeing it, it has already been supplied to Bangladesh, Myanmar has expressed great interest in it, as well as a number of countries in North Africa," Kladov told RIA Novosti.

    He explained that one of the advantages of the two-seat advanced jet trainer is its ability to imitate the attack aircraft of any country and class, which makes it easier for pilots to prepare for flights on both Russian and foreign planes.

    The Yak-130 lead-in fighter trainer is the world's only training aircraft with the aerodynamic configuration and subsonic flight performance characteristics of modern jet fighters. The two-seat reconnaissance and light attack jet has a combat load of up to 3,000 kilograms (about 6,614 pounds).


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    Re: Yak-130: News

    Post  GarryB on Sat Apr 23, 2016 12:25 pm

    Don't know who produced that info graphic but they are lazy SOBs... they clearly cut and pasted some western chart... the air to ground missile is a Maverick missile and the bomb weights are US standard sizes... ie imperial weights rather than metric.

    Russia does not use 454kg bombs or 227kg bombs... these are American bomb types better known as 1,000lb and 500lb bombs respectively. The Russian and Soviet equivalents are 500kgs and 250kgs.


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    Re: Yak-130: News

    Post  franco on Fri Apr 29, 2016 3:13 pm

    Has anyone heard where the 3rd regiment of Yak-130's will be stationed?

    I would think Tikhoretsk but have seen nothing yet.

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    Re: Yak-130: News

    Post  Militarov on Thu May 05, 2016 3:44 am


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    Re: Yak-130: News

    Post  medo on Wed May 18, 2016 10:00 pm


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    Re: Yak-130: News

    Post  franco on Sat May 21, 2016 1:38 pm

    Article on the Yak-130 unit being fully operational now at Armavir (200th). This is the second Yak-130 training unit after Borisoglebsk (209th) which also houses the new Yak-130 Demonstration Flight unit. Interesting to note that new pilots are receiving 50 hours of flight training first on the L.39C at Maikop or Tikhorestk before graduating to the Yak-130 for another 80 hours of flight training. Read several years back that there were plans for 3 Yak-130 training units. The aircraft for this third unit was just recently ordered but have not heard yet where they will be stationed. There is also a Naval Aviation training Yak-130 unit being formed at Yeisk.

    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/1913071.html

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    Re: Yak-130: News

    Post  medo on Sat May 21, 2016 3:13 pm

    franco wrote:Article on the Yak-130 unit being fully operational now at Armavir (200th). This is the second Yak-130 training unit after Borisoglebsk (209th) which also houses the new Yak-130 Demonstration Flight unit. Interesting to note that new pilots are receiving 50 hours of flight training first on the L.39C at Maikop or Tikhorestk before graduating to the Yak-130 for another 80 hours of flight training. Read several years back that there were plans for 3 Yak-130 training units. The aircraft for this third unit was just recently ordered but have not heard yet where they will be stationed. There is also a Naval Aviation training Yak-130 unit being formed at Yeisk.

    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/1913071.html

    Not surprised, that they still use L-39 before they go to Yak-130 trainers. I don't think pilots are ready to go from Yak-52 directly to Yak-130. They need a plane in between. For now it is L-39, in future most probably it will be SR-10. We will also see, what capabilities will new Yak-152 have. If their final capabilities will be near those of PC-9, than maybe students will be able to go directly from Yak-152 to Yak-130.

    For now I didn't see any Yak-130 in naval aviation colors. I hope they will soon get them as I think naval order is next for production.

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    Re: Yak-130: News

    Post  franco on Sat May 21, 2016 11:15 pm

    There are supposedly 5 Yak-130 already delivered to Naval Aviation. A look at the satellite image shows 3 sitting on the tarmac at Yeisk.

    As for Yak-152, believe it will replace the Yak-52 and L.39C. The SR-10 seems to be a private venture with no government involvement.

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    Re: Yak-130: News

    Post  eehnie on Sun May 22, 2016 12:27 am

    franco wrote:There are supposedly 5 Yak-130 already delivered to Naval Aviation. A look at the satellite image shows 3 sitting on the tarmac at Yeisk.

    As for Yak-152, believe it will replace the Yak-52 and L.39C. The SR-10 seems to be a private venture with no government involvement.  

    I also tend to think that it will be two steps, the Yak-152 and the Yak-130 before to try with supersonic aircrafts.

    If I'm not wrong the SR-10 was in competition with the Yak-152, but was rejected when the Yak-152 was selected. The designers are trying to open a way for the aircraft but I think military orders in Russia for this aircraft seem unlikely.

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