Militarov wrote:eehnie wrote:Militarov wrote:eehnie wrote:GarryB wrote:I see interesting a small supersonic trainer for the first supersonic experiences of the pilots, instead of doing it in bigger and more expensive Su-24, MiG-29,...
A supersonic trainer can help to save money.[/quote
But that is the problem... the extra cost of making the trainer supersonic will make it more expensive to use, yet the vast majority of its time will be spent at subsonic speeds training pilots in all sorts of things at subsonic speeds.
Breaking the speed of sound is a total non event... doing it at medium to high altitude and the only way you know you are supersonic is by looking at your speed instruments.
the reason the vast majority of LIFT aircraft are subsonic is because flying supersonic is of no value to a training aircraft. It is the same for CAS... there is no advantage to flying so fast you can't spot targets and threats on the ground.
Speed is useful for an interceptor, or for attack but speed wont make you safe.
The only reason to make a light trainer supersonic is to make it into a light fighter/bomber.
Then to be supersonic is necessary for a light fighter/bomber? Why? The answer to this question explains many things about the value of the speed on aircrafts. Nothing in this life make you safe, but somethings like the speed in the air (and the armour on land) make you safer in contested areas.
In some comments it seems that to make a supersonic version of the Yak-130 is easy and cheap, in other comments seems that is expensive... The point of my comment was that if it is cheap, I would see interesting to have some supersonic trainers to give to the pilots their first supersonic experiences instead of doing it in more expensive aircrafts. If the Yak-135 is developed as a supersonic version of the Yak-130 it would be interesting to take advantage of it also for training purposes.
The concept of a trainer aircraft is to give experience to the pilots wasting less money in operational terms and risking less money in terms of equipment. It is also to avoid accidents in more expensive aircrafts. Not all the trainer aircrafts need to be supersonic.
For fighters/interceptors superonic capabilities are required to fight, without it they are useless, they cant chase, cant intercept, cant sprint to dedicated gathering area, you lose response time, also afterburners are used in actual combat to allow certain maneuvers... And there is no point in having supersonic trainer as you MUST put pilots after Yak 130 for a while on two seat dedicated fighters to adapt for its subsystems, controls, handling etc. When its about feeling there is no much difference between high subsonic and low supersonic from pilots perspective.
Supersonic variant of Yak-130 would be cheap multirole fighter, however it wouldnt be cheap trainer. Also worlds basically only real supersonic trainer is T-50 Golden Eagle, which costs to operate same as F16 Block 40.
Do you know that the most produced military trainer has been a supersonic trainer? I was surprised when I found it. The T-38 has been surely the most succesful of the military trainers until now, and is supersonic. Then, the idea of a supersonic trainer has at least some point.
Well aware of that, and its operational costs are basically same as of F5 Tiger which was mainstray fighter of many NATO countries for decades. Majority of trainers are subsonic only and it will be that way probably till the moment when manned aircraft disappear from our skies.
Also i wouldnt call T38 most succesful advanced trainer till now, not even by a long shot, it was averagely present in service due to US influence. Far better service records have BAE Hawk, L-39 Albatros, L-29 Delfín.. hell even Aermacchi MB-326, which are all legends among trainer aircrafts. Imo T-37 Tweet was far better machine for that role than Talon.
It is necessary to say that the F-5 was developed from the T-38 and not the inverse case. Also the T-38 has been about a 25% more produced than the F-5.
To say which has been the most succesful trainer is open to discussion, but the T-38 has two significant data on its side. First, to be the most produced trainer aircraft and second to be 55 years in active service (and increasing).
I think the data are enough good to prove that the idea of a supersonic trainer has some sense.