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    Indian Su-30MKI: News

    Isos
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    Post  Isos on Wed Feb 20, 2019 6:13 pm

    George1 wrote:Russian-made Su-30MKI fighter jets to carry five BrahMos missiles

    More:
    http://tass.com/defense/1045506

    Brahmos NG which is the small one. That will be a bug power up for them.
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Thu Mar 07, 2019 5:33 am

    Military expert explained how the Su-30 outsmarted the F-16 in the sky over Kashmir
    https://riafan.ru/1158033-voennyi-ekspert-obyasnil-kak-su-30-perekhitrili-f-16-v-nebe-nad-kashmirom
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    Post  Isos on Wed Jun 12, 2019 9:11 pm

    Rob Lee
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    According to Indian Air Force sources, the IAF is looking at replacing its Su-30MKI's Russian-made R-73 and R-77 air-to-air missiles. The R-77 "do not match its advertised range and cannot engage targets which are more than 80 kilometres away."


    Rob Lee
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    This was an issue during the February 27 engagement between Indian fighters and Pakistani F-16s, which launched AMRAAMS missiles beyond the R-77's max range (both missed), so the IAF's Su-30MKI could not engage the Pakistani fighters. 2/


    https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/outgunned-by-pakistan-f-16s-iaf-plans-to-re-arm-its-sukhois-with-israeli-missiles-2044172
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    Post  GarryB on Thu Jun 13, 2019 3:49 am

    This was an issue during the February 27 engagement between Indian fighters and Pakistani F-16s, which launched AMRAAMS missiles beyond the R-77's max range (both missed), so the IAF's Su-30MKI could not engage the Pakistani fighters. 2/

    Both missed but it is the Russian missile that is faulty?
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    Post  miketheterrible on Thu Jun 13, 2019 8:12 am

    GarryB wrote:
    This was an issue during the February 27 engagement between Indian fighters and Pakistani F-16s, which launched AMRAAMS missiles beyond the R-77's max range (both missed), so the IAF's Su-30MKI could not engage the Pakistani fighters. 2/

    Both missed but it is the Russian missile that is faulty?

    They are claiming it can't engage beyond 80km. Which the pakies are laughing at saying Russia should sell them the R-77 and they can probably use it at Max range. And I don't doubt that the early R-77 that India has does have it's issues. Hell, Russia never introduced it into it's own airforce instead waited for R-77-1 and now K-77M for Su-57. For most of it's modern Life, they relied upon heavily modernized R-27 missiles instead.
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    Post  Isos on Thu Jun 13, 2019 12:10 pm

    Well it is another proof that indians are sneaky bastards. R-77 has a range of 80km and it is clearly stated by the manufacturer. RVV-SD is the export version with 110km and available for export since many years.

    If they wanted to compete with AMRAAM, they should have bought the SD variant.

    The reality is that they stroke themselve with the glory indian air force from the 70s and think that they must be the best in any situation because they won air battles in the 70s. The thing is that it's no more the same fighters nor the same pilots, so instead of blaming everyone they should start blaming themselves and admit they just suck.

    If they really wanted to fight they could have locked on the f-16 simulating a launch of r-27ER which would have obliged the f-16 to go defencisve (= turn, lose speed and altitude, amraam range decrease), get closer and use r-77. Moreover they were in a formation of 2 su30 some mirage 2000 and mig-21 bison, in this case leader should have coordinated an attack (and jaming) to destroy the intruders but they are not trained at all to face such situation, clearly.

    IMO indians wants to destroy russian credibility because they plan to be a new arm exporter and will target russian clients. Just like China is doing. Russia needs to destroy some chinese made and indian made weapons to stop that. Abrams destruction by kornet is a good exemple how they stoped the stories about how russian tanks are blowing up so easily and not western ones. Now destroy a stupid f-16, damage a submarine coming too close to a russian ship and use s-300 in Syria.


    It is stated they detected the launch of amraam which is a active radar missile launched with the track while scan mode. So there couldn't be an alarm in the RWR of the su-30 before the two amraam activated their onboard radars 20km away. IMO the su-30 radar can detect the amraam from far away and able the pilot to take evasive manoeuvres.
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    Post  miketheterrible on Thu Jun 13, 2019 1:38 pm

    A Israeli F-16 (much better than most F-16's) was shot down not too long ago by a S-200 AD system. Rumor was two of them shot down.

    It's quite simple - in India, there are those who are being paid to promote Israeli or US systems
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    Post  ATLASCUB on Thu Jun 13, 2019 2:07 pm

    Indians aren't doing that cause they plan on "supplanting the Russians".. they simply can't. If there is an ulterior motive it's to make way for American arms. Pompeo will be selling some soon as he arrives in India. The slow displacement of Russian arms in the Indian market continues slowly but surely with no end in sight. And as always the soil must be fertile, before the crops are planted.
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    Post  Isos on Thu Jun 13, 2019 6:04 pm

    https://theprint.in/defence/wiser-after-balakot-india-orders-missiles-worth-700-million-from-russia/249553/

    Well now they order 300 r-73 and 400 r-77 and some kh31 for 700 million $. To be verified as the article is from today.

    Russia offered rvv-sd but it seems MKI aren't capable of carrying it. Maybe would need an upgrade. If they are smart they would ask for r-77M.
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    Post  magnumcromagnon on Thu Jun 13, 2019 11:11 pm

    miketheterrible wrote:
    GarryB wrote:
    This was an issue during the February 27 engagement between Indian fighters and Pakistani F-16s, which launched AMRAAMS missiles beyond the R-77's max range (both missed), so the IAF's Su-30MKI could not engage the Pakistani fighters. 2/

    Both missed but it is the Russian missile that is faulty?

    They are claiming it can't engage beyond 80km. Which the pakies are laughing at saying Russia should sell them the R-77 and they can probably use it at Max range.  And I don't doubt that the early R-77 that India has does have it's issues. Hell, Russia never introduced it into it's own airforce instead waited for R-77-1 and now K-77M for Su-57. For most of it's modern Life, they relied upon heavily modernized R-27 missiles instead.

    Are your sure it's the R-77? It was never designed to be launched with Israeli and French software. I mean Israeli software in their SAMs struggled with basic IFF, and managed to shoot down a friendly Mi-8.
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    Post  miketheterrible on Fri Jun 14, 2019 1:46 am

    None of the newer systems are designed to work with Israeli or what not systems. I believe the newest of the new only recently received the ability to work on other nations software since it uses a modern open architecture.

    As mentioned above too, the newer variant never worked on the Su-30MKI and thus R-77 basic was sold to India.

    And all sources for the first variant of it state it's Max range is about 80km anyway from open sources so Indian officials are just making shit up as usual.

    Especially since as per article mentioned above me, states that they ordered more missiles from Russia.

    According to Russian Tactical Missiles Corporation, the developer and producer of most of the Russian air-to-air missiles, the R-73’s range is 30 km. The range of its latest version, the RVV-MD, is 40 km.

    It’s the same case with the R-77, which can hit targets at a distance of up to 80 km, while its latest version, the RVV-SD, can go up to 110 km.

    And anyway, India's Hodge podge setup of using gear from every nation under the sun, and putting it into one airframe seems to not really work so well.
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    Post  GarryB on Fri Jun 14, 2019 8:55 am

    I suspect very shortly the Russians will reveal a new range of AAMs especially designed for long range use against stealthy targets specifically the F-35 and F-22, for the Su-57 to use, though of course such weapons will also be standard on the MiG-35 and Su-35.

    I suspect they will be dual homing with IIR and ARH seekers to enable mixed use of sensor technology for engaging a wider variety of targets including a passive homing mode for jammers.

    The combination of IIR sensors means the target can be examined so a towed jammer behind a fighter aircraft could be identified as such and the missile can attack the aircraft towing the jammer instead of hitting the towed decoy... it would also mean most radar stealth aircraft will be vulnerable to attack as most appear quite readily on IIR seekers.

    Export models of Russian weapons often have range limits imposed on them via software... most countries would do that of course, and they will tell the client what the limits are even if they might not tell them what they could be expanded to of course.

    For a very long time the Russians have very few upgraded aircraft in service that could use R-77s and sold rather more R-77s to China and India than they bought themselves as the only aircraft cleared to carry the R-77 during the 1990s and early 2000s was the MiG-29S, and ironically a few Su-25TMs.
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    Post  Isos on Tue Jul 09, 2019 10:34 pm

    https://www.livefistdefence.com/2019/07/russia-sees-red-over-india-putting-british-missile-on-su-30.html

    Well, took them some time but they finally react.
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    Post  Pinto on Wed Jul 10, 2019 5:27 pm

    Isos wrote:https://www.livefistdefence.com/2019/07/russia-sees-red-over-india-putting-british-missile-on-su-30.html

    Well, took them some time but they finally react.

    New Delhi has not sent Moscow any inquiries considering equipment of India’s Russian-made Su-30MKI fighter jets with missiles made in other countries, the deputy director of the Russian Federal Service for Military-Technical Cooperation (FSMTC), Vladimir Drozhzhov, told reporters. In February, media reported about India plans to equip its Su-30MKI fighters with UK-made ASRAAM missile systems and Israeli-made Spice-2000 bombs. “If the Indian partners want to install [on Su-30MKI fighters] the missiles that were never used with this aircraft before, of course, we would like to discuss this issue. The license agreement does not envisage an opportunity to equip third countries’ products on this aircraft

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    Post  Cyberspec on Fri Jul 19, 2019 11:13 pm

    India has sent to Russia a request for modernization of su-30MKI
    https://www.aex.ru/news/2019/7/19/199750/
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    Post  PapaDragon on Fri Jul 19, 2019 11:21 pm

    Cyberspec wrote:India has sent to Russia a request for modernization of su-30MKI
    https://www.aex.ru/news/2019/7/19/199750/

    Maybe this time they will listen to Ruskies and stop trying to do equivalent of plugging Xbox gamepad into Nintendo Switch?

    And don't try to use 60 mile range missile at target 80 mile away...



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    Post  magnumcromagnon on Sat Jul 20, 2019 12:08 am

    PapaDragon wrote:
    Cyberspec wrote:India has sent to Russia a request for modernization of su-30MKI
    https://www.aex.ru/news/2019/7/19/199750/

    Maybe this time they will listen to Ruskies and stop trying to do equivalent of plugging Xbox gamepad into Nintendo Switch?

    And don't try to use 60 mile range missile at target 80 mile away...




    Or try to manipulate the max range of the torpedoes on your submarine...
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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic on Sat Jul 20, 2019 12:22 am

    Cyberspec wrote:India has sent to Russia a request for modernization of su-30MKI
    https://www.aex.ru/news/2019/7/19/199750/
    Will they use the irbis E hybrid PESA radar of.the su35 or will they insist for an AESA radar?

    I heard that in the past they discussed to upgrade their su-30 with the Zukh-AM/AME radar (that I believe is the same offered as an option for the Mig-35), but such radar, even being an AESA, is still smaller and less powerful (having so inferior detection capabilities) than the Irbis-E.

    And will they switch to using only Russian sensors navigation systems and avionics, or will they keep mixing there also french and israeli components?

    Since Russia is planning a similar upgrade for their Su-30SM, and since Russia is now producing sensors and avionics not inferior to the western ones, it could be worth to try to uniform the two sets of upgrade as much as possible (of course keeping into account the difference between russian own components and their export version).
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    Post  Isos on Thu Aug 08, 2019 10:45 pm

    Snehesh Alex Philip

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    Breaking: Today evening a Su-30 aircraft on a routine training mission from Tezpur crashed in the local flying area. Both pilots ejected safely from the aircraft and have been rescued. A Court of Inquiry will ascertain cause of the accident: IAF
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    Post  Pinto on Wed Aug 14, 2019 3:21 pm

    State-owned Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL) has pitched for an order to manufacture four additional squadrons of the Su-30 MKI jets to quickly meet gaps in fighter squadron strength but the air force seems to be only keen on ordering replacements for aircraft that have been lost in accidents.


    The proposal for manufacturing 72 more fighter jets to add to the current order for 272 was made by the HAL but officials said that the air force has not been keen due to budgetary issues. HAL is hopeful that an order for at least 10 additional aircraft is placed this year so that its Sukhoi manufacturing plant in Nasik does not fall idle.


    “If we are looking at a strength of 42 squadrons for the air force, the fastest means of getting it is to go for more Light Combat Aircraft and the Su-30 MKI jets. We are currently making 12 of the fighters per year at the Nasik plant,” HAL chairman R Madhavan told ET.


    The company has shared cost breakups to manufacture one, two, three or four squadrons, leaving it for the air force to take a call on the numbers that it wants. Sources have told ET that as of now, the air force is only looking at an order of 8-10 more of the jets to make up for accident losses.


    A worry for HAL is that if orders for the jets are not placed this year, its manufacturing line in Nasik will go defunct and the base of Indian vendors that it has created over the past decades will get disrupted. HAL currently produces the jets for around ?450 crore each. “If the order does not come this year, there will be a two year gap before the line can be restarted as we have to order kits and other parts. The vendor base will be out of business and the ramp up after the gap will be both costly and time consuming,” Madhavan said.

    HAL’s proposal, which his currently being discussed with the defence ministry, is to supply the additional aircraft at prices that have already been negotiated for older orders by adding the standard annual escalation.“This is the fastest method to get more fighter jets. The attrition rate of the older MiG 21s and Jaguar jets is very high.


    Even if a contract is signed with a foreign manufacturer, it will take at least three years to get the first aircraft,” the HAL chief said, adding that the company is awaiting responses to its proposals from the air force and ministry of defence. The air force, which is awaiting the delivery of its first new Rafale fighter jets next month, is keen on adding to its order for 36 of the French origin aircraft, with sources telling ET that it requires at least two more squadrons.


    The concern being a rapidly decreasing squadron strength that currently lies at 30 but is expected to dip rapidly over the next two years as the MiG 21 and 27 series of fighters are retired from service. An ongoing process to select a foreign partner and Indian manufacturer to make 114 new fighter jets under ‘Make in India’ expected to take at least five years and the air force’s worry is that its conventional edge could be blunted due to a lack of numbers.

    https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/defence/hal-pitches-for-4-more-squadrons-of-su-30mki/articleshow/70668419.cms?from=mdr
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    Post  GarryB on Thu Aug 15, 2019 3:13 am

    This was an issue during the February 27 engagement between Indian fighters and Pakistani F-16s, which launched AMRAAMS missiles beyond the R-77's max range (both missed), so the IAF's Su-30MKI could not engage the Pakistani fighters. 2/

    But if the Amraams missed can you really say they actually do have a longer range... they were fired from a greater range than the R-77s would normally be launched from, but the fact that they missed suggests they were also fired from beyond their effective range too. I mean if the Indian pilots had fired their R-77s before the Pakistan pilots had fired their AMRAAMs and all the missiles missed who can say which missile has the best range?
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    Post  medo on Sat Aug 24, 2019 9:09 pm

    https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/refurbished-new-india-getting-su-30mki-fighter-jets-second-hand-engines-75456

    “It was noticed while checking the records…that AL 31FP engines fitted in certain aircraft was in Cat B condition at the time of inspection / delivery to Indian Air Force (IAF),” according to a report that was seen by Deccan Chronicle.

    Each IAF Su-30MKI is powered by a pair of AL-31FP turbofan engines.

    Noteworthy Cat 2 (category B) or secondhand engines were installed into brand new Sukhoi 30 MKIs by HAL facility at Nashik without the knowledge and approval of the defence ministry.

    However according to the report, what is surprising is the acceptance of such aircraft by the IAF. “Certain aircraft with one new and one old engine were wrongly accepted by IAF and the Directorate General of Aeronautical Quality Assurance. As these arrangements were not in tune with contractual provisions, it should have been rejected by IAF and DGAQA…. In any case, IAF should have obtained approval from MoD for accepting aircraft with one second hand engine.”

    And Indians will again blame Russia, that they produce bad planes. It is really not surprising, that IAF Sukhois crashed that often, when others have no problems with them.
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    Post  Isos on Sat Aug 24, 2019 9:39 pm

    It is really not surprising, that IAF Sukhois crashed that often, when others have no problems with them

    Not only sukhoi but every single class of indian's jets crashes because of poor maintenance. They just use much more russian types of aircraft so it gives the impression that russian planes crashes more than western made.
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    Post  medo on Sat Aug 24, 2019 11:21 pm

    https://www.defensenews.com/industry/2019/08/15/an-indian-facility-that-makes-su-30mki-jets-may-shut-down-toppling-400-local-suppliers/


    “Each HAL-built Su-30MKI fighter costs around $70.3 million, where as a Russia-supplied fighter costs around $42.15 million,” the senior Air Force official said.


    A senior MoD official said that Russia last month tried to pressure the Indian government to order an additional 72 Su-30MKI fighters with HAL, but the Indian Air Force is reluctant to place new orders in such a large number.


    “The HAL built Su-30MKI fighter is not fully indigenized, only 51 percent is homemade, where the remaining 49 percent of supplies still comes from Russia,” said Bhim Sigh, a retired wing commander with the Indian Air Force.


    Singh noted that most of the raw materials are sourced from Russia, including titanium blocks, forgings, aluminium and steel plates, as well as low-tech items such as nuts, bolts and screws.


    HAL continues to depend on Russia as the original equipment manufacturer for components, raw material, servicing and overhaul of the fighters.

    Interesting is, that Indian HAL made Su-30MKI is far more expensive than Russian made Su-30 although they build in used engines. It's even more funny that India have to import nuts, bolts and screws. it's really
    not surprizing, that Indian made communications sucks and now India will urgently buy Israeli SDRs for their Suhkois, MiGs and Mirages.

    From those 51% homemade was mostly imported from France, Israel, UK, South Afrika,...

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